This update proves that previews are needed.

[MuscleBobBuffPants.1406]

5 hours ago, Chryses.5906 said:

What are the odds of Anet ever setting up like a public test server to test changes before going live with them? Kinda feels like the live servers are used for beta testing changes a lot of the time. I'm sure this has probably been discussed before, but I haven't been lurking on the forums long enough to have seen any of it.

I think this would help ALOT.  People have asked for a bit for this.  It would still require them to actually implement changes based on feedback. but it would give them actual feedback on the real world implications of changes in terms of feel, responsiveness instead of basing their changes on excel spreadsheets and golem statistics.  But I still say that this would also require them to have a direction or goal for balancing.  They released their balance philosophy last year which was extremely vague.  If you are making changes, you need an overall goal in mind, otherwise you are making changes just to make changes.  People often say that people complain about changes because it makes their class less powerful, but more than that, people just want the REASONING for the changes.  For example when it comes to balancing movement, stealth (damage avoidance) versus actual damage itself.  What is their goal?  How are these changes working to achieve that goal?  If you can explain your reasoning, then people will understand because a balanced game is a fun game for everyone.

[Angesombre.4630]

13 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure ... but that doesn't have anything to do with Anet giving patch previews or not or whatever direction Anet wants the game to move in. I mean, if you are convinced that the devs are just playing favourites ... then you really don't need to see the previews right? You're just going to pull out the standard "Anet favours X class" every time there is a patch and be done with it. No preview required for that kind of response. 

See, that's exactly why we don't need the previews. Either you are the kind of person that complains they don't get what they want and finds some accusation to make against Anet (like it even matters) ... or you just realize that some changes are coming and you deal with them. In either case, patch previews not required. 

 I mean, don't pretend like getting a preview somehow changes whatever biases exist there. It won't, whether they exist or not. The ironic thing is that when it's your own personal bias, you don't have a problem with it because you probably think it would be 'really good' if Anet did what you wanted. When it's ANet/dev biases, it's the worst thing ever! 

Anet has already gone backwards because the community didn't agree with the choices, the one that comes to mind first is the guardian.

Besides, what's the point of having a forum if you can't say what's going on in the game? At the end of the day, just making updates without ever saying anything can be a clever way of guessing what's new each time.

Most of the people who are on the forum are there to discuss or complain because that's what it's for if people are satified, they usually say nothing, because what they wanted, they got.
The nerf is something very annoying for players who just want to enjoy a game without having to revise their build every 5 minutes because it doesn't fit, when before it was good.
Adjustments I can understand, but the problem comes from the fact that Anet nerfs in general drastically and "sometimes" you have to wait for the next update 3 months later, before there are any adjustments if there are any.
For some bugs, we've been reporting them for over a year and they still haven't bothered to look...

[Kozumi.5816]

19 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure ... but that doesn't have anything to do with Anet giving patch previews or not or whatever direction Anet wants the game to move in. I mean, if you are convinced that the devs are just playing favourites ... then you really don't need to see the previews right? You're just going to pull out the standard "Anet favours X class" every time there is a patch and be done with it. No preview required for that kind of response. 

See, that's exactly why we don't need the previews. Either you are the kind of person that complains they don't get what they want and finds some accusation to make against Anet (like it even matters) ... or you just realize that some changes are coming and you deal with them. In either case, patch previews not required. 

 I mean, don't pretend like getting a preview somehow changes whatever biases exist there. It won't, whether they exist or not. The ironic thing is that when it's your own personal bias, you don't have a problem with it because you probably think it would be 'really good' if Anet did what you wanted. When it's ANet/dev biases, it's the worst thing ever! 

Customers should demand MORE from companies not LESS. 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Kozumi.5816

[Obtena.7952]

On 10/6/2023 at 6:54 PM, Kozumi.5816 said:

Customers should demand MORE from companies not LESS. 

Sure ...  you can demand whatever you want. That has nothing to do with what I said though. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

On 10/6/2023 at 1:20 PM, Angesombre.4630 said:

Anet has already gone backwards because the community didn't agree with the choices, the one that comes to mind first is the guardian.

Besides, what's the point of having a forum if you can't say what's going on in the game? At the end of the day, just making updates without ever saying anything can be a clever way of guessing what's new each time.

Most of the people who are on the forum are there to discuss or complain because that's what it's for if people are satified, they usually say nothing, because what they wanted, they got.
The nerf is something very annoying for players who just want to enjoy a game without having to revise their build every 5 minutes because it doesn't fit, when before it was good.
Adjustments I can understand, but the problem comes from the fact that Anet nerfs in general drastically and "sometimes" you have to wait for the next update 3 months later, before there are any adjustments if there are any.
For some bugs, we've been reporting them for over a year and they still haven't bothered to look...

OK. This doesn't appear to be related to why we 'need' previews though. (the proof we don't 'need' it being obvious ... they simply aren't necessary to play the game) Are people just re-inventing what 'need' means to complain about yet another thing they are overly sensitive to?

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Barraind.7324]

Meanwhile, balance is probably the best this patch its ever been, minus a couple outliers on the unacceptably low end. 

There are ~28 dps builds, including power, condi, and hybrid, all within 3k of each other, and dps boons are in a similar state

[Astralporing.1957]

On 10/8/2023 at 11:48 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure ...  you can demand whatever you want. That has nothing to do with what I said though. 

You said that previews do not matter because Anet is not listening to feedbacks anyway. And in this you are right - if they will be making bad choices regardless, it doesn;t really matter if we know beforehand. Where you aren't right is treating it as if it were somehow fine this way. It is not.

The previews should happen, but they are just a prerequisite to something way more important - Anet being able to actually learn and listen when people show them they are driving towards a cliff or right into a wall. And, unfortunately, past experiences have shown that community balancing, as bad as it can be, is often still better than what Anet devs seem to be doing. Because they not only seem to lack driving experience, but do not even seem to know which direction they want to go.

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You said that previews do not matter because Anet is not listening to feedbacks anyway. And in this you are right - if they will be making bad choices regardless, it doesn;t really matter if we know beforehand. Where you aren't right is treating it as if it were somehow fine this way. It is not.

The previews should happen, but they are just a prerequisite to something way more important - Anet being able to actually learn and listen when people show them they are driving towards a cliff or right into a wall. And, unfortunately, past experiences have shown that community balancing, as bad as it can be, is often still better than what Anet devs seem to be doing. Because they not only seem to lack driving experience, but do not even seem to know which direction they want to go.

I said that? I don't think so. I said they aren't NEEDED ... I didn't say they don't matter. I know Anet considers the feedback ... I've acknowledged it many times in other threads on the same topic. I know they do because they HAVE made adjustments to changes in past patches because of it. OK now that I've cleared up these incorrect interpretations of what you think I said ... 

I do think they matter, I just don't think people understand how they matter. The previews certain don't matter if people think players should be part of the design process for class changes, make demands for how things should work, pout and act out like children when they don't get what they want.

I think they matter if you want to be aware of what is happening in the game, how the change affect you, how you can prepare for the changes. You know, reasonable things like that. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[peperoncino.2516]

16 hours ago, Barraind.7324 said:

Meanwhile, balance is probably the best this patch its ever been, minus a couple outliers on the unacceptably low end. 

There are ~28 dps builds, including power, condi, and hybrid, all within 3k of each other, and dps boons are in a similar state

-signed, secretly an employee of anet..?

you do realise that perfect golem performance is not a good way to balance the game? dps should only be within those meaningless margins of each other if every spec also brings about the same in utility/flexibility/whatever. current balance is neither.

[Obtena.7952]

6 hours ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

-signed, secretly an employee of anet..?

you do realise that perfect golem performance is not a good way to balance the game? dps should only be within those meaningless margins of each other if every spec also brings about the same in utility/flexibility/whatever. current balance is neither.

Actually, if you have been around for a significant part of the history of the game, their statement is not too far off the mark ... unless you think the era where a team speedrunning 5 Ele's in a dungeon is 'balanced' and numerous have-not classes aren't even considered to be teamable.

The golem has nothing to do with it; whether you balance with the golem, dice or tea leaves ... we STILL have WAY more relevant, similar performance output choices NOW than we have EVER had, even if that's just determined anecdotally.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[peperoncino.2516]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Actually, if you have been around for a significant part of the history of the game, their statement is not too far off the mark ... unless you think the era where a team speedrunning 5 Ele's in a dungeon is 'balanced' and numerous have-not classes aren't even considered to be teamable.

...ye, i kinda get it now. its a matter of the bar itself being set so hillariously low xD

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The golem has nothing to do with it; whether you balance with the golem, dice or tea leaves ... we STILL have WAY more relevant, similar performance output choices NOW than we have EVER had, even if that's just determined anecdotally.

whats not anecdotal however, is how every build now performs at a somewhat similar level on a golem. so, you think anet just accidentally tinkered numbers in such a way, or what? imo its pretty obvious that perfect scenario is at least a consideration for the devs, tho who knows if their considerations even go beyond that.

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

...ye, i kinda get it now. its a matter of the bar itself being set so hillariously low xD

whats not anecdotal however, is how every build now performs at a somewhat similar level on a golem. so, you think anet just accidentally tinkered numbers in such a way, or what? imo its pretty obvious that perfect scenario is at least a consideration for the devs, tho who knows if their considerations even go beyond that.

I don't think it's an accident at all. We know Anet has targets for performance, so it should be no surprise that we get similar numbers on a golem. The problem most people have is that Anet isn't giving people details about how those targets are determined. Frankly, I don't think they are determined. I think it's just a matter of having a more equal representation of specs being used in the game in their various roles. If that means some class is 10K DPS over another to get that equal representation, then so be it. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[peperoncino.2516]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't think it's an accident at all. We know Anet has targets for performance, so it should be no surprise that we get similar numbers on a golem. The problem most people have is that Anet isn't giving people details about how those targets are determined. Frankly, I don't think they are determined

exactly my point. anet sees the high number - swings the nerfhammer. good luck on waiting for a fix to anything caught in a collateral.

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I think it's just a matter of having a more equal representation of specs being used in the game in their various roles. If that means some class is 10K DPS over another to get that equal representation, then so be it.

would that be the case, ele/zerker/whoever would not have had their damage gutted in most recent balance patch, cause theres barely even a "representation" of them, specially amongst more casual crowd. or are you talking about how it should be?

either way, balancing without taking into account what prof/spec brings in addition to its dps is the root of all this... buut, apparently, as long as anet considers specs perfect scenario damage competitive, even if impossible to achieve in any encounter besides darn golem, they would much rather slap some trait with a +3%/-3% change than go through figuring out their own game.

[Angesombre.4630]

What's more, there's an imbalance between the different specializations depending on the mobs' hitboxes, so it would be great if Anet could take this into account.

[Obtena.7952]

11 hours ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

exactly my point. anet sees the high number - swings the nerfhammer. good luck on waiting for a fix to anything caught in a collateral.

.. and you are suggesting there is an alternative or ? I mean, it's easy to complain about how it's done. It's NOT easy to think of how it can be done better. I don't honestly see any other way to do it. Anet makes a change, they look at the impact, they decide if more changes need to be made. Maybe you think crystal balls are plentiful ... maybe you can lend Anet yours. Until then, that's how it works. 

11 hours ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

would that be the case, ele/zerker/whoever would not have had their damage gutted in most recent balance patch, cause theres barely even a "representation" of them, specially amongst more casual crowd. or are you talking about how it should be?

either way, balancing without taking into account what prof/spec brings in addition to its dps is the root of all this... buut, apparently, as long as anet considers specs perfect scenario damage competitive, even if impossible to achieve in any encounter besides darn golem, they would much rather slap some trait with a +3%/-3% change than go through figuring out their own game.

That's not necessarily true. I mean put it this way, usage ISN'T the only reason Anet is going to make class changes. Anet also makes class changes if things don't work how they want them to. Anet also makes class changes if things are over or under performing. Anet has LOTS of reasons to make class changes and sometimes those reasons conflict. So sure, you might see changes that affect usage in directions that oppose logic. That's just a consequence of the fact that ... balance is complex. The irony is that people who complain about balance tend to lean in the direction of making it MORE complex with ideas like fixing imbalance between the different specializations depending on the mobs' hitboxes and other nonsense like that.  That's just absurd. 

I mean, your post is indicative of alot of people's posts on balance. They think there is some task where Anet 'figures out the game' so that it gets balanced in one swish of a magic wand. That just doesn't make sense. The fact is that balance, when interpreted as performance, just isn't the critical factor in game success that people like you seem to believe it is. The average guy just plays what he wants. For them, balance means having CHOICE. For them, balance means a class has spec options to fill any role in a team. For them balance means having cool, varied themes and effects between the classes. These people don't count their beans and as long as the game is designed to that the beans don't matter too much, their voice will be the significant one. 

Here is the Hot Take: The significant number of people complaining Anet didn't give the patch previews are probably those people counting their beans far more than they should be.  

Edited October 13, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[peperoncino.2516]

25 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

.. and you are suggesting there is an alternative or ? I mean, it's easy to complain about how it's done. It's NOT easy to think of how it can be done better. I don't honestly see any other way to do it. Anet makes a change, they look at the impact, they decide if more changes need to be made. Maybe you think crystal balls are plentiful ... maybe you can lend Anet yours. Until then, that's how it works.

first of all, remind me, what was the original idea behind doing balance patch previews? why so clueless then? xD

that just furthers my point - anet is yet to figure out why some specs are considered to be in a good place hence have higher representation, while others are just not, and slapping some trait with a % modifier is the laziest way to address the issue.

35 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

usage ISN'T the only reason Anet is going to make class changes. Anet also makes class changes if things don't work how they want them to. Anet also makes class changes if things are over or under performing. Anet has LOTS of reasons to make class changes and sometimes those reasons conflict. So sure, you might see changes that affect usage in directions that oppose logic. That's just a consequence of the fact that ... balance is complex.

second of all, its not my job to figure out a reason for doing changes, for its literally the devs job. fact however is, they dont communicate their views on balancing, nor they want anyone but them having a say in the process, apparently. coincidentally, those are the only things that matter.

in turn, it leaves players with a lot of post-patch guessing on what "work like we want them to" exactly is for anet, with the end picture just overall making little sense.

52 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The irony is that people who complain about balance tend to lean in the direction of making it MORE complex with their ideas about fixing imbalance between the different specializations depending on the mobs' hitboxes and other nonsense like that.  That's just absurd. 

well, excuse me if im mistaken, but there were changes made to weapons/traits so they perform differently depending on selected espec. there also were changes to address multihits of various abilities for bigger hitboxes. 

if so, why a change with some combination of those two previously done would be "nonsense, just absurd"? imo its anything but, and should be pretty much expected at this point.

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I mean, your post is indicative of alot of people's posts on balance. They think there is some task where Anet 'figures out the game' so that it gets balanced in one swish of a magic wand. That just doesn't make sense. The fact is that balance, when interpreted as performance, just isn't the critical factor in game success that people like you seem to believe it is.

are you secretly an anet employee? if not, your guess is as good as anyones, cause who knows what "performance" really means, if it even means anything.

that aside, you either set a goal then work towards it, or you dont get anything done. treating class balance like its an ever-changing situation with no clear approach when you are the one responsible for making any of said changes is the latter.

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The average guy just plays what he wants. For them, balance means having CHOICE. For them, balance means a class has spec options to fill any role in a team. For them balance means having cool, varied themes and effects between the classes.

Hot Take: The significant number of people complaining Anet didn't give the patch previews are probably those people counting their beans far more than they should be.  

yea, the issue clearly is those people (pesky) who have a good understanding of the games mechanics.. opposed to those who will not even care about changes we ended up with..?

lost you there. a swing and a miss?

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

first of all, remind me, what was the original idea behind doing balance patch previews? why so clueless then? xD

that just furthers my point - anet is yet to figure out why some specs are considered to be in a good place hence have higher representation, while others are just not, and slapping some trait with a % modifier is the laziest way to address the issue.

second of all, its not my job to figure out a reason for doing changes, for its literally the devs job. fact however is, they dont communicate their views on balancing, nor they want anyone but them having a say in the process, apparently. coincidentally, those are the only things that matter.

in turn, it leaves players with a lot of post-patch guessing on what "work like we want them to" exactly is for anet, with the end picture just overall making little sense.

well, excuse me if im mistaken, but there were changes made to weapons/traits so they perform differently depending on selected espec. there also were changes to address multihits of various abilities for bigger hitboxes. 

if so, why a change with some combination of those two previously done would be "nonsense, just absurd"? imo its anything but, and should be pretty much expected at this point.

are you secretly an anet employee? if not, your guess is as good as anyones, cause who knows what "performance" really means, if it even means anything.

that aside, you either set a goal then work towards it, or you dont get anything done. treating class balance like its an ever-changing situation with no clear approach when you are the one responsible for making any of said changes is the latter.

yea, the issue clearly is those people (pesky) who have a good understanding of the games mechanics.. opposed to those who will not even care about changes we ended up with..?

lost you there. a swing and a miss?

I'm not getting into some argument with you about this. Clearly, you don't get how complex balancing is and as usual, that gets attributed to Anet not understanding the game. 🤷‍♂️. I can only assure you, how much anyone thinks Anet knows the game is not relevant to how Anet balances it. They are simply going to work their balancing process and we have had lots of peeks into what that process is and what factors into the decisions made in it. 

Just stick around and pay attention to how Anet does things because that's what is relevant here. Don't overthink it. It simply comes down to things working how Anet wants them to work, not how players think it should work. You're going to fly the 'Anet doesn't know' flag? OK ... not much to talk to you about then is there. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

39 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Just stick around and pay attention to how Anet does things because that's what is relevant here. Don't overthink it. It simply comes down to things working how Anet wants them to work, not how players think it should work. You're going to fly the 'Anet doesn't know' flag? OK ... not much to talk to you about then is there

But thats not what balance means? 

Balancing classes is minimalising the dps disparity between builds by as much as physically possible. 

That has nothing to do with how Anet thinks something should work. Or how players do either. That is entirely to do with raw statistics. And yes if the raw statistics are showing balancing to be poor. Regardless of excuse. The balancing is poor therefore anet haven't made good choices. 

There is no grey area here. Nor is there any opinonated arguments lol. This is black and white numerical data. 

Anet know what their doing. The real answer is u don't know what they're doing. 

We all know why a mmorpg company don't balance a game perfectly, because in the end of things the game becomes rather stale achieving this. 

A perfectly balanced gsme would be a incredibly boring one lol, they keep the game unbalanced for reasons. It gets players changing up what they play. Which changes up whst the player is doing. It keeps content fresher. Lol. 

Like litterally, u will say anything to defend anet. Even when u don't understand whats going on. 

U act like "oh their balancing is based on every proffession doing a role because most play whst they want". No they don't lol. 

Because they can't. 

The average player in gw2 plays solo, and the vast majority of Hero points aren't obtainable by most builds in the game. Lol hence why everyone plays the same classes and the number disparity is absolutely massive even tho in raids / fractals / pvp it never looks mental. 

Solo players who are average at the games mechsnics, have the least choice of everyone. Because they need to build to be able to solo elites lol. And only select classes can do that without high mechanical skill. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

But thats not what balance means? 

To you that's not what it means but that's not relevant here now is it. What's relevant here is what balance means to Anet. I mean, not sure how this concept doesn't get through to you. It's not about how you think the game should work. It's NEVER been about how players think the game should work, for any game ... but for SOME reason, it is for GW2? That doesn't make sense. 

I think it's reasonable for Anet to define balance how they see fit. If Anet is defining balance by something like equivalent usage or some combination of factors that aren't just DPS ... that makes LOTS of sense to me because the game isn't just about having DPS. It's just not that simple and the question of balance has to consider everything these specs have to offer.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Gendalfs.7521]

Imagine brick house is a balance, where Anet puts in brick for brick...every 3 months, It will be ready, someday.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Gendalfs.7521
wrong word

[peperoncino.2516]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I'm not getting into some argument with you about this. Clearly, you don't get how complex balancing is and as usual, that gets attributed to Anet not understanding the game.

okay, but will you actually explain your reasonings here or just end it with a "you dont get it" and that will be the end of it? what makes you think devs know their game better than some of the players do?

anyhow, you didnt address much of anything from my replies, then dipped out from the dialogue. clearly, issue is me not understanding how complex the topic is.

clearly, surely even.

7 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I can only assure you, how much anyone thinks Anet knows the game is not relevant to how Anet balances it.

well it doesnt matter what they think, quite frankly. its more of an evaluation of them not doing a good job on some fronts.

what anet should care about tho, is how such evaluation affects players new and old - doesnt make much sense to play the game from a company that is known to not care about its playerbase.

8 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Just stick around and pay attention to how Anet does things because that's what is relevant here.

exactly why should people "stick around and pay attention", when

8 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

It simply comes down to things working how Anet wants them to work, not how players think it should work

so, players opinion matters not, while communication is close to non-existent. good approach that makes a ton of sense, can def see a whole lot of "balancing" being done. again, why should anyone "stick around" considering the treatment being given? let alone those actually knowledgeable of games mechanics, makes no sense to ignore such valuable feedback.

8 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You're going to fly the 'Anet doesn't know' flag? OK ... not much to talk to you about then is there. 

im not flying anything, my guy. you, however, ended up going in circles so many times i think my head is spinning. 

tho, i want to ask now, what makes you think anet actually knows their game better than those insanely dedicated people spending hours every day playing every part of it?

8 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Don't overthink it

yeah... actually, go a step further - just stop all thinking 🙂

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

okay, but will you actually explain your reasonings here or just end it with a "you dont get it" and that will be the end of it? what makes you think devs know their game better than some of the players do?

SOME of the players know how the game works better than the players? OK, Probably true. But so what? Are you trying to make some point here or ?

The fact is that some players knowing more than Anet about how the game works doesn't make it a conclusion that SOMEHOW, Anet isn't responsible for developing the game, including balancing. That's just nonsensical. 

Again, the point here is that we don't need patch previews, EVEN if there are players that know more about how the game works than Anet beacuse the existence of those players doesn't mean Anet is doing something wrong. I don't really see how any of your post is related to that and it's just the typical 'Anet doesn't know and doesn't care" nonsense. I've seen it before. It's not worth the time to deconstruct it. 

Here is the bottomline: Don't like the balance in the game? OK ... Make posts, complain, leave, whatever. But don't believe for a second that quips like "Anet not knowing and don't care" is some sort of incentive for Anet to change how they balance the game, including whatever need players have convinced themselves they have for patch previews. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[peperoncino.2516]

22 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

SOME of the players know how the game works better than the players? OK, Probably true. But so what? Are you trying to make some point here or ?

you are most clueless and need everything spelled for you.

if we can agree that "some" of the players do actually have more knowledge of the game and understand it better than devs do, then having a way that helps get that feedback from those "some" players to then take it into consideration should end up to the overall betterment of the game. kinda same thing patch previews were supposed to help with, except if forums here had a downvote button and also gave more info right away on who is posting.

38 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The fact is that some players knowing more than Anet about how the game works doesn't make it a conclusion that SOMEHOW, Anet isn't responsible for developing the game, including balancing.

...and being responsible for something equates to relying only on yourself to do it... how exactly?

theres nothing wrong with being open to feedback. even, taking feedback is, in fact, a very common practice, across pretty much the entire world. for most "creators", in our case it would be the devs, are not in it to make things for themselves, but for their customers. meaning, if the creator is unable to spot something customers will see as a design issue, or if said creator cannot design near-perfectly out of the gate, then asking for user feedback can be a reliable way to help the creator.

24 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

As for the rest of your post, it's just more of the typical 'Anet doesn't know and doesn't care" nonsense. I've seen it before. It's not worth the time to deconstruct it. 

you completely misunderstood my point and i am not surprised, considering how you were handling this conversation so far that is. i wont try to reiterate, for first, i believe i already explained myself to the best of my ability, and second, "not worth my time" as you claim it is just not an attitude to have for any somewhat healthy conversation.

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's just nonsensical. 

trust me, you dont get to say that xD

[zeyeti.8347]

I agree with Op , it sometimes helped devs knowing they forgot something (we all are human after all) , remind me of weaver being leftover in some patch and just having bleed added somewhere , ppl argued and ranted about , and weaver got Swift Revenge going from +10% to +15% and Elements of Rage from 5% to 10% between the patch preview and the patch release , but yeah now those bonuses were deleted to there previous self (except elements of rage who goes +7%) only because of sword/warhorn.

What i didn't get with this patch is they make a good thing with vindicator , nerfing Gs who was obvioulsy too strong , especially on herald who is a boon farter who did as much damage as many dps , they nerf on one side and buff on the other so vindi didn't quite get affected by the patch (more damage now) , but the ele and the warrior got leftover , especially the warrior who got nerfed cause of some fancy build abusing King of Fires with an aura propeler tempest , you will see this combo maybe 1 or 2 times in your gw2 whole playtime (except if your static has this combo) , if the weapons are a problem , nerf the weapons not the class , and the class who were not supposed to be affected by this sort of nerf get buffed , like anet did with vindi.

I know some specific classes will always be leftover in this or this meta , but a whole 3e-specs from 2 classes almost not played in the whole meta for a long time now ... that should just trigger something, ppl don't like to play them , they are either too complicated or too weak in many players hands, now i take the balance patches for what it is : a seasonal reshuffled meta shaker , not balanced , but reshuffled. And i don't care ppl will say "i do 48k with my ele , it's normal it got nerfed" , you can count ppl like that with one hand in the whole gw 2 community , on the other hand the scourge was pretty easy , i did almost the bench with like 1hour of training , only "hard" part was spamming f1 and f2 now, the rest is literally off cd playstyle , except for the condi fireback from blood is power, so thats a normal nerf and isee no one complaining about , so why ppl complain about ele and warrior ?

Ah yes just a little rant , for those arguing with Obtena : Trust me it's not worth your time , ignore him as i did, or you ll get stucked in an infinite loop of "it doesnt matter" "you are nonsensical".

Edited October 14, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[Obtena.7952]

8 hours ago, peperoncino.2516 said:

if we can agree that "some" of the players do actually have more knowledge of the game and understand it better than devs do, then having a way that helps get that feedback from those "some" players to then take it into consideration should end up to the overall betterment of the game. 

Sure, having SOME WAY to get feedback from highly knowledgeable players is a great idea. It's likely SOME WAY exists already, since we have seen evidence of it in the past. 

The problem you're going to have is explaining why patch previews on the forums are necessary for that to happen. I would argue that if Anet is trying to get feedback from a specific group of players that they have identified as highly knowledgeable about the game, patch previews on the forums is probably the WORST way to get it. 

But sure, let's pretend your reasoning of 'helping Anet access knowledgeable players' has absolutely nothing to do with your own interests in getting previews. 

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Obtena.7952