Should you use Hammer or not? (At least in PvP)

[Yasai.3549]

20 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

That's because hammer still has a stigma and needs some time to get used

It's only fair to make this statement for newly released items, not something that was released 8 years ago and has undergone repeated beatdowns into mediocrity where it's left to wallow in its faults for a better half of a decade. 

While autos can be remedied with increased cast animation time, things like CoR still being an inconsistent mess (For some reason, you can miss targets right infront of you) and Phase Smash still being an extremely weird tool skill to belong on a ranging weapon and DTH still taking ages to cast, the weapon will forever remain clunky because it just doesn't flow well in actual practice. 

If I had a say in things, CoR would just be a barrage type skill on a location and Phase Smash would be an actual mobility skill which a hammer user can use to reposition themselves in all gamemodes. And please, just let us move around while channeling DTH already. 

[zeyeti.8347]

Hammer , even if damage are somewhat good now, is still freaking slow , AA take ages to launch , skill 2 sometimes doesnt hit the targets inside , skill 3 while it is a dodge make you root in place for about 1 secs , take ages to land on the spot... , skill 4 is actually good now , and 5 same as other skills has a too long cast animation and take too much time to take effect once launched. I play herald quick and i feel like i have no quickness at all when playing hammer...

Prefer playing shortbow , even as power , at least it's quite quick and i don't think you loose that much damage.

Hammer just doesnt feel good to play.

[arazoth.7290]

5 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

It's only fair to make this statement for newly released items, not something that was released 8 years ago and has undergone repeated beatdowns into mediocrity where it's left to wallow in its faults for a better half of a decade. 

While autos can be remedied with increased cast animation time, things like CoR still being an inconsistent mess (For some reason, you can miss targets right infront of you) and Phase Smash still being an extremely weird tool skill to belong on a ranging weapon and DTH still taking ages to cast, the weapon will forever remain clunky because it just doesn't flow well in actual practice. 

If I had a say in things, CoR would just be a barrage type skill on a location and Phase Smash would be an actual mobility skill which a hammer user can use to reposition themselves in all gamemodes. And please, just let us move around while channeling DTH already. 

• CoR being a barrage Skill like renegade citadel bombardement, would give problems too with hitting 😅. And if meant as aoe raining down in an area, kind of the same where people walk out and it does less reliable damage for a 2nd skill.

 

Just to clarify, I am not against making hammer skill 2 reliable to hit over the path it should normally travel. And I think it's easier to change the code a little bit, then changing the skill entirely.

So it will work on uneven areas and even if you hit on a higher floor with a bottom in the middle and another high platform after it. Like you have in some arena's. 

 

• Skill 3 is fine for returning to the same place after the cast, in comparison to the benefits it gives.

The skills in hammer are ranged so doesn't need a teleport, It doesn't need super kiting mobility with a long ranged weapon that has good defensives already.

 

• Skill 5 takes some time to cast, but can be fastened up with quickness with the right timing. That way you can surprise players. in pve mode it also does a good chunk of damage, so fine

It is also reliable to get the cc off in the area you want against players. I can prove it in game against you, if you doubt it, you will be surprised (if sarlaan reads this, hi 😁).

About zergs getting cc in general off isn't hammer 5 the problem, but stability spam problem. And there are already enough post about it in the WvW section.

 

In short overall and previous post:

• Hammer auto attack, can be 0,25 sec faster and 25% faster projectile speed. It will still feel heavy but smoother.

• Hammer skill 2 travel path, fix the code. It should travel without going weird on some uneven areas. Making it travel over areas if you're standing little higher, even to areas in front of you, as long the targetted path is and not longer.

It's easier to fix that bug in the code, then reïnventing a new skill which has a possibility to bug out too 😅.

 

 

 

[Yasai.3549]

7 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

CoR being a barrage Skill like renegade citadel bombardement, would give problems too with hitting 😅. And if meant as aoe raining down in an area, kind of the same where people walk out and it does less reliable damage for a 2nd skill.

Well Barrage would be more similar to Ranger Longbow and it doesn't matter if people walk out of it, at least it does damage in the area like it's supposed to. 

7 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Skill 3 is fine for returning to the same place after the cast, in comparison to the benefits it gives.

The skills in hammer are ranged so doesn't need a teleport, It doesn't need super kiting mobility with a long ranged weapon that has good defensives already.

Point is to give it mobility. And no it does not have "good defensives". A single stack of Aegis from Hammer 4 is not "good". 
Yes it's defensible against other ranged attackers but that's about it and it's not good enough in current Gw2 climate. 

7 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Skill 5 takes some time to cast, but can be fastened up with quickness with the right timing. That way you can surprise players. in pve mode it also does a good chunk of damage, so fine

It is also reliable to get the cc off in the area you want against players. I can prove it in game against you, if you doubt it, you will be surprised (if sarlaan reads this, hi 😁).

About zergs getting cc in general off isn't hammer 5 the problem, but stability spam problem. And there are already enough post about it in the WvW section.

It's more for PvP and Roaming though? No one casts DTH in a zerg because it's suicide to root yourself when the boonball wants to stay mobile. Just allowing the caster to reposition while casting it is good enough because it can be used to kite by placing the CC in your retreat path and daring enemies to chase you or burn a dodge. It's a small change that will increase its usability tenfold. 

[Shagie.7612]

am i missing something here

you can move while casting hammer 5
you can even about face it

the only thing you can't do is about face it and change its placement like you can with other aoes, the placement change only works if you stay facing the same direction the whole time

anyways idk, it's super chunky to land like a spear + hammer 2 at the same time but i don't know that it'll ever compete with a standard sword/sword or even shortbow build without changes to those, the attack speed and inability to about face for spacing on damage skills is the major factor imo

Edited January 2 by Shagie.7612

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

The only thing you can't do is about face it and change its placement like you can with other aoes,

Yes you can, done it many times.

Also try this combo, spear with skill 4 first and then the 2nd instant after

Edited January 2 by arazoth.7290

[arazoth.7290]

3 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Well Barrage would be more similar to Ranger Longbow and it doesn't matter if people walk out of it, at least it does damage in the area like it's supposed to. 

If they fix the code that it goes in the supposed traveling path over uneven areas too. Then the damage is more reliable and instant then an aoe like barrage. And it's also easier for them to do then making yours.

3 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Point is to give it mobility. And no it does not have "good defensives". A single stack of Aegis from Hammer 4 is not "good". 

Yes it's defensible against other ranged attackers but that's about it and it's not good enough in current Gw2 climate. 

It has good defensives, it has a tricky evade, projectile denial and aegis. Landing that aegis on the right timing to block an important attack can save some other cds, which you can use later. Done it many times before and I will after too.

It's even good in close melee range since the last update. It might feel little odd at first, like I said many times but it won't feel like that forever and will be 2nd nature.

Revenant has in general enough mobility to get away and hammer by being long range doesn't needs that ontop...

3 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

It's more for PvP and Roaming though? No one casts DTH in a zerg because it's suicide to root yourself when the boonball wants to stay mobile. Just allowing the caster to reposition while casting it is good enough because it can be used to kite by placing the CC in your retreat path and daring enemies to chase you or burn a dodge. It's a small change that will increase its usability tenfold. 

pvp/roaming/dps the best use yes, which it shines at. Zergs are a boonfest and stability for all kind of cc classes can do in general.

DTH can be used while moving and even running forward and using it backwards same time. No issue with standing still.

DTH can be repositioned if you're fast enough yes.

Edited January 2 by arazoth.7290

[Shagie.7612]

9 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Yes you can, done it many times.

Eh, I just checked again, it's really weird about it.
It doesn't have to be in front of you, it just only moves during the first like, half of the cast.

Almost every other skill can be redirected all the way up until the cast bar finishes.

That's a bit annoying.

[arazoth.7290]

45 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

Eh, I just checked again, it's really weird about it.
It doesn't have to be in front of you, it just only moves during the first like, half of the cast.

Almost every other skill can be redirected all the way up until the cast bar finishes.

That's a bit annoying.

Well yea and no on the annoying part because=>

The cast animation you can see on 1 place and it finishes on another place, which catches people off guard. Because they don't expect it to hit and now you have reliable cc set ups.

It can't be done the whole cast animation time like you said, but still more reliable if it couldn't be done.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

19 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

If they fix the code that it goes in the supposed traveling path over uneven areas too.

I dont think it has anything to do with a code as much as it does with Y value on hitbox. Currently its set for a flat terrain topdown like game which is why small elevations screw it over

[arazoth.7290]

4 hours ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

I dont think it has anything to do with a code as much as it does with Y value on hitbox. Currently its set for a flat terrain topdown like game which is why small elevations screw it over

What ever it is that it can't travel correctly over uneven paths, should be made correctly.

That abiltity should be reliable to get of, it's really nice they made it being able to hit up  close. So this is the last on that one to be fixed.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

3 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

What ever it is that it can't travel correctly over uneven paths, should be made correctly.

That abiltity should be reliable to get of, it's really nice they made it being able to hit up  close. So this is the last on that one to be fixed.

Its a cube with low height basically which triggers when u fire off weapon. This ability aint the only one suffering from those issues. Eartshaker from warrior f1 comes to mind. What they need to do is increase height value which is Y on the skill but its bandaid fix as it might hit unintended targets as well so ideally they should code hitbox rotating based on elevation and thats a bit of work to calculate it so i dont see it happening considering all other bugs that are present and quick to fix.  CoR also lost the purpose of hitting the target the further they are so scrapping the entire skill and replacing it with something else is the best they can do. But really 2, 3, 5 are up there for a rework anyway. CoR is just special case cuz theres no middle ground for it in WvW, it either will hit like wet noodle or be straight up busted like in the past cuz projectile deflection has no effect on it though honestly i wouldnt mind if they made it like banish from Mallyx

[phokus.8934]

It's the Z axis, not Y axis that's the problem.

[arazoth.7290]

Well lets hope they find the right axis to fix then and not only for this hammer skill but for other classes too 😅

[Shao.7236]

On 12/25/2023 at 9:02 AM, Yasai.3549 said:

I have to admire Shao for sticking to Hammer so fiercely but honestly I feel like Hammer is just not keeping up with the rest of the sandbox. CoR's rippling isn't even remotely interesting or good anymore in the current sandbox and I have been using Mace alot, with Mace 3 essentially being a bootleg CoR but more consistent and has TWO CHARGES in competitive modes. 

I'm not kidding, WvW CoR coefficient and Echoing Eruption coefficient are the same but Mace 3 has two charges on an 8s cooldown with 1s recast cooldown.(actually CoR in WvW has slightly lower power scaling than Echoing Eruption) 

At this point, the only thing that'll really get me excited about hammer is finally a rework or mini rework to the poor thing. 

 

It's definitely not the easiest thing to play but making it work is surely satisfying and has it's "perks" in some use cases.

There's still some things to iron out, such as Phase Smash not counting as a movement skill or Inspiring Reinforcement AoE combo field not high enough for Hammer Bolt to combo field on properly because that vulnerability would be very useful.

However in the WvW that's actually sad, I didn't even know it was that low, unacceptably low.

Phase Smash is a fairly unique skill that allows you to do a lot of useful things, one of them being triggering traps, another being ignoring CC's or the usual being a counter attack. My favorite is sending players away from you as they track while you can still deal damage to them in the final second. It doesn't need to be changed.

Edited January 6 by Shao.7236

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Shao.7236 said:

It's definitely not the easiest thing to play but making it work is surely satisfying and has it's "perks" in some use cases.

There's still some things to iron out, such as Phase Smash not counting as a movement skill or Inspiring Reinforcement AoE combo field not high enough for Hammer Bolt to combo field on properly because that vulnerability would be very useful.

However in the WvW that's actually sad, I didn't even know it was that low, unacceptably low.

Phase Smash is a fairly unique skill that allows you to do a lot of useful things, one of them being triggering traps, another being ignoring CC's or the usual being a counter attack. My favorite is sending players away from you as they track while you can still deal damage to them in the final second. It doesn't need to be changed.

And from times in pvp on obstacles, buildings and such using it when players are on you close by => you use it then to trick them that you jump off so they follow. Works mostly and can give a good laugh

[Justine.6351]

Hammer isn't meta in wvw, jalis is.

[arazoth.7290]

Pvp related. Start the video of the match at 3h10min. It's about the revenant in that particular match, not the streamer himself.

https://m.twitch.tv/videos/2046606362

 

Edited January 29 by arazoth.7290