upcoming relic... no golemancer... Starting to really dislike this relic system...

[suialthor.7164]

I should preface this with saying I believe stealth has no place in competitive gameplay.  For open world I really miss rune of the trapper on my ranger.   

Relics are boring.  Having fewer choices is boring.  Removing all of the fun stuff effects makes it worse.  I understand how things don't match up in some of the different game types, but at least let us have the old fun bonuses in open world.

[Zera.9435]

Either I'm playing the game wrong, or the only people that are upset about the relic system are the hardcore players who cry about dropping from 45k dps to 44.9k dps. There has been no noticeable change to the game for me since the introduction of the relic system. My damage has been the same as it has been for years: way too low and was only ever good when I briefly had Aurene mode.

[Doggie.3184]

38 minutes ago, Zera.9435 said:

Either I'm playing the game wrong, or the only people that are upset about the relic system are the hardcore players who cry about dropping from 45k dps to 44.9k dps. There has been no noticeable change to the game for me since the introduction of the relic system. My damage has been the same as it has been for years: way too low and was only ever good when I briefly had Aurene mode.

No one's sad about DPS Relics, pretty sure no one even cared about Scholar's affix, the new ones are just as boring though and require micromanaging for some. Not sure who gets excited over that, like 'Relic of Fireworks and Aristocracy,' but they're probably a dull person at parties. The Condi meta didn't even lose DPS it lost healing/survival from Torment healing you.

The fun and convenient QoL ones are what's left out like +25% movement speed (replaced with a totally ironic one that requires Swiftness access when the point of it was to give movement speed to builds with little to no Swiftness access) which is stuck on crappy rune stats still, and cute pets; golem/lich/doggo/birb; which the lich one also woulda provided tons of QoL to Specter since it was given weak af Wells instead of Demon Minions and can't self-target with Scepter, unable to make use of it's own mechanics when by itself.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Doggie.3184

[LadyKitty.6120]

27 minutes ago, Zera.9435 said:

Either I'm playing the game wrong, or the only people that are upset about the relic system are the hardcore players who cry about dropping from 45k dps to 44.9k dps. There has been no noticeable change to the game for me since the introduction of the relic system. My damage has been the same as it has been for years: way too low and was only ever good when I briefly had Aurene mode.

And people who play more than one build and character and now have to farm and carry a pile of soulbound relics on every character. Before SotO launch we had complete legendary sets that allowed being rid of inventory space-hogging gears and the hassle of moving gears around. If they had released legendary relic right away, it might've been more tolerable.

And people who experiment with builds, meme or RP. There were bunch of builds that relied on the interaction between now-removed 6th rune bonuses and some traits/skills.

[Zera.9435]

2 minutes ago, LadyKitty.6120 said:

And people who play more than one build and character and now have to farm and carry a pile of soulbound relics on every character. Before SotO launch we had complete legendary sets that allowed being rid of inventory space-hogging gears and the hassle of moving gears around. If they had released legendary relic right away, it might've been more tolerable.

And people who experiment with builds, meme or RP. There were bunch of builds that relied on the interaction between now-removed 6th rune bonuses and some traits/skills.

I have 26 characters, and the different builds are tied to different characters. I don't swap builds, I swap characters. I can see how it would be an inconvenience for those who only have one or 2 characters. Either way, it's a problem that doesn't seem to affect the majority too adversely.

[Doggie.3184]

Just now, Zera.9435 said:

I have 26 characters, and the different builds are tied to different characters. I don't swap builds, I swap characters. I can see how it would be an inconvenience for those who only have one or 2 characters. Either way, it's a problem that doesn't seem to affect the majority too adversely.

I have 16 characters and not having leggy relic on release is highly upsetting and unacceptable. I made leggy runes to avoid clutter and reduce inv management and I have a whole bank tab and more wasted on these. What you 'see' is invalid. Broaden it.

[LadyKitty.6120]

5 minutes ago, Zera.9435 said:

I have 26 characters, and the different builds are tied to different characters. I don't swap builds, I swap characters. I can see how it would be an inconvenience for those who only have one or 2 characters. Either way, it's a problem that doesn't seem to affect the majority too adversely.

Nonetheless, for more that a few people it's led to a situation where they rather wait 'til the leggy relic than play (maybe quickly doing weeklies and logging in for static obligations on one build).

[Zera.9435]

2 minutes ago, Doggie.3184 said:

I have 16 characters and not having leggy relic on release is highly upsetting and unacceptable. I made leggy runes to avoid clutter and reduce inv management and I have a whole bank tab and more wasted on these. What you 'see' is invalid. Broaden it.

Enlighten me, then. How is not having a legendary relic suddenly filling up all your bank and character inventory slots? Do you not salvage or sell anything? Do you have stacks of stacks of runes and sigils? if so, why? I don't have any legendary runes and I have so much inventory space and plenty of bank storage. Inventory management is as simple as deposit materials button, collapse button, salvage, deposit materials, sell junk, collapse, done. What are you hoarding?

[Zera.9435]

Just now, LadyKitty.6120 said:

Nonetheless, for more that a few people it's led to a situation where they rather wait 'til the leggy relic than play (maybe quickly doing weeklies and logging in for static obligations on one build).

That sounds more like a problem with play style choice.

[Doggie.3184]

10 minutes ago, Zera.9435 said:

Enlighten me, then. How is not having a legendary relic suddenly filling up all your bank and character inventory slots? Do you not salvage or sell anything? Do you have stacks of stacks of runes and sigils? if so, why? I don't have any legendary runes and I have so much inventory space and plenty of bank storage. Inventory management is as simple as deposit materials button, collapse button, salvage, deposit materials, sell junk, collapse, done. What are you hoarding?

Even on my Thief I swap builds a lot, even mid fight as I scurry away selfishly to swap builds to 1v1 someone I can't beat cuz Thief need all the help and cheating they can pull off to survive. So I had tons of runes in my bag all the time and got tired of it and made leggy runes. Now I have buncha relics laying about, many Soulbound to different characters sitting in bank cuz some of my alts have less INV space, although they're not as useful as runes they're still everywhere as I test and change builds. Maybe you only play PvE but in WvW there's an infinite amount of crap you can use in a useful way that's worthless in PvE. Same with other classes I play.

But most of all. I have every right to be annoyed a feature I already had was removed and I have to wait half a year or more to get the privilege to BUY IT BACK, like wtf. Just like you they were totally ignorant to the way some people play and the thought never occured to them that it was nessasary.

Then even further disrespect they completely delete pretty much every fun 6th bonus and replace them all, leaving out many favorites.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Doggie.3184

[LadyKitty.6120]

19 minutes ago, Zera.9435 said:

Enlighten me, then. How is not having a legendary relic suddenly filling up all your bank and character inventory slots? Do you not salvage or sell anything? Do you have stacks of stacks of runes and sigils? if so, why? I don't have any legendary runes and I have so much inventory space and plenty of bank storage. Inventory management is as simple as deposit materials button, collapse button, salvage, deposit materials, sell junk, collapse, done. What are you hoarding?

As a buildcrafter, Kitty legit had every even remotely useful rune and they took 2 whole bank tabs and were a PITA to transfer between characters. Now? Kitty would first need to farm bunch of relics (all good condi relics are expansion ones) and buy/make another for at least one character per class and use one bag per character to carry them 'cause soulbound and all that gold+farm would be wasted when legendary relic comes. And Kitty's not alone with that, that's the situation for many endgame gamers.

Edited November 7, 2023 by LadyKitty.6120

[Zera.9435]

1 minute ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Even on my Thief I swap builds a lot, even mid fight as I scurry away selfishly to swap builds to 1v1 someone I can't beat cuz Thief need all the help and cheating they can pull off to survive. So I had tons of runes in my bag all the time and got tired of it and made leggy runes. Now I have buncha relics laying about, although they're not as useful as runes they're still everywhere as I test builds. Maybe you only play PvE but in WvW there's an infinite amount of crap you can use in a useful way that's worthless in PvE. Same with other classes I play.

But most of all. I have every right to be annoyed a feature I already had was removed and I have to wait half a year or more to get the privilege to BUY IT BACK, like wtf. Just like you they were totally ignorant to the way some people play and the thought never occured to them that it was nessasary.

Yo real talk, I never said you can't be annoyed. I simply wanted to understand why you would be annoyed because the relics to me have had basically no impact at all. Did they remove legendary runes form the game? Is that what this is about? I wouldn't know because I don't have legendary runes. If so then yeah that's kitten that they did that. You guys got kittening robbed.

[Pinkeh.4207]

14 hours ago, Zera.9435 said:

Yo real talk, I never said you can't be annoyed. I simply wanted to understand why you would be annoyed because the relics to me have had basically no impact at all. Did they remove legendary runes form the game? Is that what this is about? I wouldn't know because I don't have legendary runes. If so then yeah that's kitten that they did that. You guys got kittening robbed.

Having a full set of legendary sigils or runes completely changes the way you go about dealing with them. It doesn't mean you don't use sigils/runes anymore, but it lessens the burden of a hoarder's menality i.e. keeping multiple of them in your bank 'just in case I need them'. It reduced unnecessary clutter in an already cluttered inventory or bank. An example are dungeon runes or sigils that were not as easily purchased or obtained in the past. 

With Soto they took away an important feature of those runes that role-players cared about - especially their NPC companions. Then the cluttered our inventory/bank with even more relics that weren't stackable.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Pinkeh.4207

[idpersona.3810]

16 hours ago, Zera.9435 said:

Either I'm playing the game wrong, or the only people that are upset about the relic system are the hardcore players who cry about dropping from 45k dps to 44.9k dps. T

Anecdotal, but I don't fall into that category.

Sanctuary runes losing their tier 6 ability broke my WvW character build, along with other changes in the same patch. There was/is nothing remotely comparable so that build is just no longer viable. 
My golemancer character had to be completely reworked.
I had a couple of characters with Vampirism runes. Those builds don't really work anymore.

For simplicity, most of my power character/builds are just using the Thief relic now.

I think in total, across 40-50 characters/builds I'm only using about 4 or 5 different relics. And because playing around with builds is much more inconvenient now (without being able to use my legendary runes to change the 6th tier), I've just kind of abandoned/parked several character I used to play regularly.

For me personally, the relic/rune change did diminish my fun in the game. I've got half a bank tab dedicated to storing the expansion relics, which I didn't have to deal with before. For anyone that crafted all their legendary runes, this move was a huge step backwards.

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, idpersona.3810 said:

My golemancer character had to be completely reworked.

What was the golemancer character?

 

But yeah, even the fact that relics are soulbound (instead of account bound, if they wanted to stop them getting back on the tp) discourages me from trying out different relics on different characters, so I'm not doing that until the legendary relic gets added into the game. The threads about legendary runes losing part of their utility were correct and that's the part of relics I  deifnitely dislike.

[Resident.7421]

I liked my golem a lot. And losing it did ruin one of my concept characters, and I'm still trying to find a new niche for him. I kinda understand why they took it out, in a balance sense, but they did take away basically ALL the fun effects from runes. The relics are so boring. The only fun effect they kept was the fireworks one, and they tied it to a completely different effect that is now meta for power builds, so I see fireworks going off everywhere and it's no longer weird or silly or unique. You get to be fun AND meta, and if you only wanted to be meta, well, you're fun too. Enjoy!

I miss my mad king runes with the crows.....

Edited November 7, 2023 by Resident.7421
oops i wrote this without realizing there was a page2, sorry for the repetition

[Resident.7421]

20 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

I have 16 characters and not having leggy relic on release is highly upsetting and unacceptable. I made leggy runes to avoid clutter and reduce inv management and I have a whole bank tab and more wasted on these. What you 'see' is invalid. Broaden it.

 I suspect that they made relics soulbind just to increase incentive to get the inevitable legendary relic.

[Doggie.3184]

18 minutes ago, Resident.7421 said:

 I suspect that they made relics soulbind just to increase incentive to get the inevitable legendary relic.

I mean I'd of crafted it by now if I could. They didn't consider legendary relics at all till people complained so that's not why. Just a case of them being outa-touch.

Now they have to go all overboard and put a whole annoying collecting on the back burner for it since they won't just add it in a simple way, making it take all year.

[Stx.4857]

I have an alt Thief Asura pimped out in inquest stuff that I haven’t touched since they removed the golem summon.  That was a huge part of the character.  
 

My main human thief also really loved his privateer runes parrot to go with his pirate transmutes and theme.  
 

The point is, why remove them?  They could have very easily kept them in with the new system but purposefully chose not to include them, which was a big mistake because a lot of players loved and used them.  

[idpersona.3810]

55 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

What was the golemancer character?

 

But yeah, even the fact that relics are soulbound (instead of account bound, if they wanted to stop them getting back on the tp) discourages me from trying out different relics on different characters, so I'm not doing that until the legendary relic gets added into the game. The threads about legendary runes losing part of their utility were correct and that's the part of relics I  deifnitely dislike.

Golemancer was an Asura Engineer Mechanist. OW build since I wouldn't subject other people to me just playing around. But it doesn't work as well flavor-wise without the runes of the golem 6th ability. 

And yea, the legendary runes losing the 6th ability access hit hard. At least half my builds/characters don't even have a relic slotted right now. I've got a stack of 88 relic chests sitting in my relic bank tab. I would love an update on what the legendary relic is going to actually require. That'd be nice.

[raykor.6723]

The relic system, as originally described, was great. More build diversity. I was very excited to try it. I cannot understand why they decided to just eliminate dozens of the old rune effects. And, of course, in complete silence.

[bigbobpataki.4796]

4 hours ago, raykor.6723 said:

The relic system, as originally described, was great. More build diversity. I was very excited to try it. I cannot understand why they decided to just eliminate dozens of the old rune effects. And, of course, in complete silence.

This. I think lost in a lot of this thread is that relics themselves aren't bad ideas. Kitty is right, they're a huge inconvenience compared to legendary runes, but I hope that'll be solved eventually with legendary relics. I think access to them is a more temporary problem.

But., the real bad is getting just 6 with the new patch. The system will never work and won't be worth the change if its biggest pro, having fun and interesting effects, is never fully realized. That means getting both new and old effects back that compete with the current, boring "stacking damage/conc/expertise" effects. 6 relics a patch is going to be a drip feed that will make the system feel worse, especially compared to the old effects (and the missing effects).

Edited November 8, 2023 by bigbobpataki.4796
number of relics that got added

[Resident.7421]

1 hour ago, idpersona.3810 said:

Golemancer was an Asura Engineer Mechanist. OW build since I wouldn't subject other people to me just playing around. But it doesn't work as well flavor-wise without the runes of the golem 6th ability.

My golem character was "Lost in Space" cosplay with a twist. He's an asuran engi named "Dr Smiff" that resembles Dr. Smith, (he really does!) A golem that falls apart all the time fits better for the humorous theme than a dynamic mech would, tho I considered it as a replacement. I don't like mech anyway.

Asurans have always been a play on "Lost in Space" ever since the golems in gw1 were shouting "DANGER! DANGER!" ☺️

[idpersona.3810]

2 minutes ago, Resident.7421 said:

My golem character was "Lost in Space" cosplay with a twist. He's an asuran engi named "Dr Smiff" that resembles Dr. Smith, (he really does!) A golem that falls apart all the time fits better for the humorous theme than a dynamic mech would, tho I considered it as a replacement. I don't like mech anyway.

Asurans have always been a play on "Lost in Space" ever since the golems in gw1 were shouting "DANGER! DANGER!" ☺️

That's really fun/cool. You put more thought into it than I did. But even still, we both got to lose the Golemancer rune 6th, and at this point I have doubts if it will ever come back (or any of the other fun summons).

[Cuks.8241]

I'm not one for summoning effects but they for sure need to add them back and add more fun relics on the top. They can go quite crazy now that they don't need to design a full rune set for it. Never nerf fun.

And there is no excuse that they clutter the screen (they do, don't get me wrong) because this game is already max clutter possible and they just recently added the Mechanist which was just plain tasteless. 

I think relics will be good in the future. The new ones look very promising and they even added some fun effects to them. But they are kinda slow with design and implementation.