The lack of "horror"...

[Caffynated.5713]

On 11/4/2023 at 4:15 PM, Danikat.8537 said:

I think part of it is Anet want to stick to a 12+ age rating, so they can't make things too scary even when they're aiming for more of a horror theme.

But I also think horror depends on a lot of factors, even for one person it can vary depending on the details. For example in most settings I'd find it absolutely terrifying if I had to find my way through almost complete darkness which is definitely full of monsters. But I've been playing a lot of Tears of the Kingdom, where I'll regularly do exactly that without any real worry, because I'm reasonably sure I can handle whatever comes at me out of the darkness. I don't know what it will be, but a lot of the uncertainty which makes that situation scary is gone, so it becomes a lot more mundane.

GW2 is similar. In other games zombies can really scare me, because they're not easy to deal with, especially if they get close or there's too many of them. In GW2 they don't bother me nearly as much, because they're just another enemy and you can kill them the same way as everything else. There's also the fact that they're never going to do anything too drastic to our characters, because they want us to be able to keep playing them. Even when we died it didn't stick, and I think that's why Caithe got branded but the Commander didn't.

I think the game can still be pretty disturbing in places, but again that's subjective. One of the parts of Orr which really stuck with me was seeing a risen farmer endlessly tilling the soil in what I assume had been a field. It doesn't sound like much, but the sight of this dead farmer endlessly preparing dead soil for crops that were long-gone because they were incapable of recognising what had happened to them really hit me. There's bits like that throughout the game, for some recent examples there's Bright Shore's collection in the Aberrant Forest in Bjora Marches, or some of the stories from the Astral Ward and the people in Skywatch about their experiments with the Fractals. The whole story about the begining, and end, of the Elder Dragons in EoD as well. But a lot of that is dependant on the player taking the time to slow down and explore the details, it's not something Anet can really build into everyone's experience.

Orr was very scary at launch. You couldn't walk 5' without being jumped by a group of 5 CC spamming Risen and running away just found you in another group of 5 CC spamming Risen. 

As far as the horror aspect, it's not that kind of game. By the time you reach Orr, you've spent 40 levels fighting Risen and you've joined a massive army dedicated to defeating them. 

[Marshall Sed.8643]

On 11/4/2023 at 7:54 PM, Ashantara.8731 said:

Just playing through Orr again, and once more I am confronted with the fact of how much potential was wasted here. There is literally nothing that really gives you the chills.

The first real "horror" appeared when HoT arrived and your *kitten* "anything will do" build & loadout didn't seem to work as intended.  🤣  That was tamed down rather quickly....but you still have to know what you're doing, the first time, when you get there.

 

But, according to the forums/reddit, the real horror appears every time ANet release their balance patch notes!

[Balsa.3951]

are zombies even scary ever? i feel every zombie movie becomes a American gun commercial.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

Horror is so hard, because horror is subjective. What's scary to one purrson isn't necessarily scary to another, and I never found any part of Orr scary in any way. On the contrary, I hated going there because I was bored. I hated the landscape because it's dull. I hate the risen because they're formulaic zombies. Did not care for it at all.

BUT there is one mission in the game I hate to do. There is a mission that I loathe every time I get to it and I actually pause and debate whether or not I want to go through it. One that scarred me the first time I went through that and trauma lasts a lifetime: The First City. Because horror is hard to pull off in a video game. You're sitting at home, in your PJs with a soda and a snack and what could possibly scare you. But we already lost Eir. We already lost Zojja. Logan barely made it out of HoT alive. And now Taimi is locked in her golem, sealed in by the inquest while it slowly kills her and you can do nothing about it except hope you can break it in time. And as we've been shown before, failure IS an option. Of course it's not in this mission, it's all scripted, but the first time through that mission you don't know that. You're given new mechanics you have to learn IMMEDIATELY while Taimi is asphixiated and Scruffy 2.0 is no slouch. That is how you instill fear into your players. Take something they care about and then threaten to take it away. Zombies? We slaughter them by the hundreds. Dragons? BY that point in the story we've killed three AND a god for good measure. Good horror strikes at your vulnerable points, and Anet did a good job there.

[Obfuscate.6430]

Orr used to be the end game where some of the most difficult mobs were. When the game was still new, many folks I knew were too scared to go there. 
I think power creep changes the aspect of danger that used to be there. 

The Arah dungeon, and the personal story do a good job of bringing to light why that area is still considered ominous to the npcs. 
But after that, and all the things the commander has gone through, faced and defeated, I don't think Orr will ever contain the horror it once did. 

Arenanet would have to revive Zhaitan or something.

[Ashantara.8731]

9 hours ago, Caffynated.5713 said:

Orr was very scary at launch. You couldn't walk 5' without being jumped by a group of 5 CC spamming Risen and running away just found you in another group of 5 CC spamming Risen.

See, and I don't find that scary at all. It's maybe annoying or challenging, but not scary/spooky/creepy.

[yoni.7015]

GW2 is not a horror game and was never intended to be one. Maybe play other games if that is what you are looking for.

[Ashantara.8731]

30 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

GW2 is not a horror game and was never intended to be one. Maybe play other games if that is what you are looking for.

I was talking about the region of Orr, not GW2 as a whole. Maybe comment on other posts if you don't understand the context?

[yoni.7015]

2 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I was talking about the region of Orr, not GW2 as a whole. Maybe comment on other posts if you don't understand the context?

And where does it say that Orr is supposed to be a Horror setting? It's a bit ridiculous to expect Horror in a game that is rated 12. I like Orr the way it is and it does not need some kind of Horror feeling at all.

Edited November 6, 2023 by yoni.7015

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Orr is more like bleak/melancholy. 

[Tiviana.2650]

i think we have to define horror that you are looking for, because this game does have a lot of horror elements in it. If what you define as horror is gore then no. Imo the best horror doesnt come from blood and gore it comes from psychological horror, it comes from menace and malevolence. I can remember well all the horror movies that did that, what i dont remember is the gore fest movies that relied on blood and guts to make. They have no lasting impression just cheap thrills atm

[ShadowKatt.6740]

43 minutes ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

i think we have to define horror that you are looking for, because this game does have a lot of horror elements in it. If what you define as horror is gore then no. Imo the best horror doesnt come from blood and gore it comes from psychological horror, it comes from menace and malevolence. I can remember well all the horror movies that did that, what i dont remember is the gore fest movies that relied on blood and guts to make. They have no lasting impression just cheap thrills atm

You know, that's not a bad point. We could better define things. Zhaitan is body horror. The rotting, mutated, shambling hordes of risen friends and foes. Mordremoth and Jormag are psychological horror given that they deal with perception, suggestion, and the unseen. Primordis is primal horror, the fear of the beastial and unthinking. Kralkatorrik and Soo Won are cosmic horror, the indescribable power or unraveling of reality respectively. And you could toss Balthazar in that lot as well I suppose, and the new baddies from SotO fit that category as well.

[Tiviana.2650]

24 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

You know, that's not a bad point. We could better define things. Zhaitan is body horror. The rotting, mutated, shambling hordes of risen friends and foes. Mordremoth and Jormag are psychological horror given that they deal with perception, suggestion, and the unseen. Primordis is primal horror, the fear of the beastial and unthinking. Kralkatorrik and Soo Won are cosmic horror, the indescribable power or unraveling of reality respectively. And you could toss Balthazar in that lot as well I suppose, and the new baddies from SotO fit that category as well.

And the pervasive ominous dread in some zones, Orr is horrifying because of what happened there. Same with bastion of the pentiant as a prevvious poster suggested. I certainly advise players that are into the story to ask for a saved  wing 4 so they can actually experience the horrors of that place there are secret rooms and torture chambers, a dark room that whispers at you and kinda freaky. You dont have to be a raider just get a saved wing. I usually have them cleared every week but im on hiatus for two weeks for dog surgery recovery. But when i am back if someone wants to see the horrors of wing 4 or any other wing i will prob have a save.

[Astralporing.1957]

The game might lack horror, because it is PG 12, and (much more importantly) it is not a horror game. Theme consistency is important.

[Vilin.8056]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The game might lack horror, because it is PG 12

https://www.esrb.org/ratings/32875/fatal-frame/

Horror game can be PG-12

Back to OP, There were horror element in Orr back before the mega server, they're simply nerfed over the years.

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Vilin.8056

[Astralporing.1957]

51 minutes ago, Vilin.8056 said:

https://www.esrb.org/ratings/32875/fatal-frame/

Horror game can be PG-12

Back to OP, There were horror element in Orr back before the mega server, they're simply nerfed over the years.

Sure, but (like i mentioned in that part of sentence you omitted) GW2 is not a horror game. And never was.

And the "horror" elements in Orr were no horror at all. They were at best annoying, which does not carry the same message.

[Vilin.8056]

9 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Sure, but (like i mentioned in that part of sentence you omitted) GW2 is not a horror game. And never was.

And the "horror" elements in Orr were no horror at all. They were at best annoying, which does not carry the same message.

And since when does one element of a certain map defines the whole MMO genre? Your definition of this game isn't even the point of this thread.

It's not like GW2 never intended to experiment with horror elements since launch, back in Queensdale https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lady_in_White

The classic experience of Orr exploration emphasize heavily upon survival instead of elimination, and visuals were far more zoomed-in with 1024x768 resolution back in 2012. It was very common to see players hesitant to explore these maps due to sheer pressure. If the risens were annoying, then so do the zombie in other survival games. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Vilin.8056

[Fueki.4753]

8 hours ago, Vilin.8056 said:

https://www.esrb.org/ratings/32875/fatal-frame/

Horror game can be PG-12

Back to OP, There were horror element in Orr back before the mega server, they're simply nerfed over the years.

 

Other ratings I found for Fatal Frame / Project Zero are at least 15+.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0340311/parentalguide

And with GW2, they have to consider a far wider range of age rating systems than merely the USA's ESRB, unless they want to raise GW2's age rating in some countries (which I doubt they want to).

[Vilin.8056]

 

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Other ratings I found for Fatal Frame / Project Zero are at least 15+.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0340311/parentalguide

And with GW2, they have to consider a far wider range of age rating systems than merely the USA's ESRB, unless they want to raise GW2's age rating in some countries (which I doubt they want to).

Guild Wars 2 also rate M in Astralia and New Zealand, given the these regions takes a large portion of the playerbase, the whole argument over PG-12 rating is irrelevant.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1716744/parentalguide/certificates

The point really, isn't about changing the game's age rating, but instead that horror element can be implemented within the current rating, it has already done before, and are already existing within certain contents within the game. The problem with Orr isn't that it lacks horror element at introduction, but rather that they are outdated.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Vilin.8056