Are we really comfortable paying for unfinished expansions?

[Teknomancer.4895]

31 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said:

While In gw2 its only the story

And what we get of that isn't all that much, tbh. What we get is reasonably well written and voiced, sure. But objectively, it's a handful of maps, brief missions, participate in X number of metas, grind rifts, some story steps that are little more than cutscenes and yes, there's copypasta everywhere.

But even with freely conceding all of that, I still think that the one-time price (especially with no sub) is fair. New content > no new content, especially in an old game.

Part of the problem is that it's coming out over time, so no release feels like much on its own. It will be far easier to judge its overall quality once it's a complete thing, obviously.

[Puck.3697]

7 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Part of the problem is that it's coming out over time, so no release feels like much on its own. It will be far easier to judge its overall quality once it's a complete thing, obviously

But on the other hand, if it all launched day 1, and we didn't see more content added later on. Players would complain about a huge draught of content inbetween expansions. 

There's no real winning solution between them. 

The problem is the game doesn't cost enough to generate a income and I really think that's the issue. 

It's like all things in life, they either increase the price or decrease the products size, and gw2 seems to opted for the latter, the game is just as cheap. But the game also delievers less because of it. 

The question is a decade down the line. How much monetization can they get away with before uproar. 

I really don't share the concept WoW offers more content. I play it and outside of the repeated grind for loot treadmills the games delievery of new content aint large either. 

Blizzard are just smarter in the game and they get away with the monetization because they know how far they can push their customers without uproar. 

Imho anet seem to need someone new in financial side of things, but whoever there at the moment is making the game so unhealthy cheap, that the game aint got the budget to really add much. 

They need to start doing something to increase their income. So they can increase their budgets. Mmorpgs are huge in the variety of content they need to develope. 

 

Spvp. 

Open world 

WvWvW 

Fractals 

Raids 

All require dev hours and input of work continously. And the budget is kinda divided between all of these things, hence why even in the largest mmorpg, if you play for one one or two sections of content u burn through them like a hot knife through butter. 

Gw2s low budget is even more problematic here. But gw2s budget can't increase without its income increasing with it. 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Puck.3697

[Holmindeboks.3490]

11 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

Tbh there's a large misconcept of WoW. 

Please take a moment to read forums around WoW, u will see players are screeching due to a lack of content just like gw2. 

I play WoW and every patch is basically. 

6 hours of story progression.

Some repeatable events wjth a bit of catch up

Repeated world quests to earn reputation. 

And 6 months of farming rhe same 8 dungeons on staggered difficulties, with one raid to log on weekly to do.

People just sit there and farm dungeons on repeat tilting at one another while afking in a capital inbetween. 

WoW is a vertical progression mmorpg. The loot grind basically is a carrot on a stick to incentivize pushing. Gw2 doesn't have that.

Gw2 has more day day to day open world content. 

WoW has more instanced based content. 

But in WoW old content is far more popular then new. Tberes far more farming old raids and old dungeons then the new releases, and this is the difference. 

When a new expansion launchs legacy is activated on another expansion while gw2 doesn't have this so u cant go solo old raids like gw2 or old content farming transmogs / achievements. 

WoW is just as incomplete. With 2 years of drip feeding content in with patchs. Major patchs are 6 months apart and marked as seasons and inbetween content drops are extremely small. 

This isnt to bash gw2 or WoW I enjoy both games, but the largest parts of both games content wise is old content and new stuff is gone through pretty fast. It's just WoWs loot treadmill hides this more as "completion" is the new ilevel cap. While In gw2 its only the story, everything beyond that doesnt yield strong enough rewards to incenvitize doing it outside of wanting to do it

I log on gw2, I play in the evenings, I dont play every day, I do spvp WvWvW, I raid, I do fractals, I do open world content I do story. And tbh I never feel like I haven't got something to do. But thats because I do everything , new and old. 

But the same applies to WoW u will run out of content very fast, in season 2 I was litterally done by week 2, at the maximum ilevel, with story + reps maxed and nothing but a achievement to grind for portals

Its no different im afraid. 

I am a loot player. And i hate storys in guildwars 2 because its trash talk in english at gymnasium niveau that i dont understand. And because its forced. Some things are behind story. Some storys took 45 of my time while its a big stress because if it disconnects you have to do all over again. I once got a dc in a 10 minute story and felt bad already. If there are checkpoints or saves then maybe i had to try to understand the story. But now i just rush till i can claim the end reward so it get saved. And open world drops nothing besides a super rare drop. So basically its wasting time. 
 

in wow you can sometimes loot something bind on equip that can be sold on the auction house. Also recipes or pets (mini’s) if you get bored and out of mental energy you go fish in WoD garrison for a turtle mount of a nice looking fishing rod. 
 

i like to farm mounts and xmogs. Feel like a rambo while i can solo everything with my hunter or warlock that was impossible back then. Or go to a dungeon for that 1 rare drop from trash mobs thats worth a few thousand gold. Ofc i have to obtain a mount sometimes to make me feel welcome. And the amount of gold that drops is insane. And ofc the gold cap is 10.000.000 on every character while in guildwars 2 its 200k someone told me. 
 

also hunter can tame rare pets that feel special. Dual loque’nahak is nice to have. Or double arcturis.  Guildwars 2 only has black moa and some spider if i am correct. Thats from guildwars 1 hall of monuments. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Holmindeboks.3490

[Ironhide Wolf.3275]

I'm honestly tired seeing this from the industry as a whole. 

Too many "Early access" games these days either fall short or fail completely. Some games like 7 days to die will likely never come out of early access. Paying for unfinished content gives the dev's a financial incentive to say "Screw it, we already have the money" and move onto the next thing. Sure, some early access games can be fun, but there are far more flops than there are success's. 

And let's be honest, this game isn't growing like it did with the free 2 play and steam releases. It's likely they've made the financial decision to move some of that GW2 staff over to their new Unreal Engine project, which will slow gw2 content production... I hope they do well with their new project. I hope they market it a little better than they did GW2. And I REALLY hope they don't just release/sell a half-finished product as "early access" again. 

[Trejgon.9367]

19 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

But instead of reworking the log in rewards, they could have done a battle pass. With a premium / deluxe editions for more money. 

And have all the battlepass hate actually justified?

[leila.7962]

I think the disappointment comes when people look back at HoT times and think that Anet was able to give excellent content through an expansion and still bring quality LWS episodes to fill the gap until PoF came around. Yes they did spoil the players by giving the episodes for free, but that doesn't mean they couldn't just say "hey, that model isn't sustainable anymore, so from now on it will be paid", rather than delivering very underwhelming content in pieces like Through the Veil was.

I was never comfortable buying SoTO, but I did anyway to show Anet my support.. however, I'm not liking it so far, so I may not be doing it again for the next one. The expansion seems to base most of its content around the new legenday armor (that doesn't even exist yet). For those that don't want to go after it or already have 1 of each legendary set it may not be a whole lot of content left to do I suppose?

[Puck.3697]

3 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

And have all the battlepass hate actually justified?

Well pick ur evil. 

You cant ask for more content, and pay nothing. Prices have to come somewhere and u cznt just up the price of expansions to £80 baseline to get it. 

Either accept £20 worth of content or accept a system which will increase that. 

Battlepass would go down 100x better then deleting the login rewards for the sake of wizard vault. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Puck.3697

[Puck.3697]

8 hours ago, Holmindeboks.3490 said:

a loot player

Sure and I play WoW for loot too, but gw2 is never gonna incentivize their content with verticle grinds and it aint much different. 

I must have done over 600/700 m+ runs of the same 8 dungeons in season 1 DF and after the story theres no open world progression outside of reps for a week or 2. 

But outside the loot, it's no different to doing 700 / 800 fractals really. 

And thats my point. WoWs content is a loot grind, it's actually very repeative on a small amount of content which is incentivized with vertical systems 

It's just blizzard know how to milk a playerbase. Anet is just too consumer friendly 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Puck.3697

[Trejgon.9367]

3 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

Battlepass would go down 100x better then deleting the login rewards for the sake of wizard vault. 

Hard disagree. Having an actuall battlepass would send the wrong message, alienate AN's core audience, login rewards were flat out bad and unengaging system, and Wizards Vault has increased my engagement with the game alot.

[Lucy.3728]

9 hours ago, Holmindeboks.3490 said:

i like to farm mounts and xmogs. Feel like a rambo while i can solo everything with my hunter or warlock that was impossible back then. Or go to a dungeon for that 1 rare drop from trash mobs thats worth a few thousand gold.

And I play GW2 mainly for the fun of it and don't care about drops. I mainly play wvw. No raids, no fractals, no dungons. No farming, no grinding. Bit open world and story every now and then.

I don't need drops. What for? More gold? What to do with all the gold? Buy more skins? That's what I did until I didn't like the gold <-> gems ratio anymore.

I started doing legendaries because I found no other use for my gold. And that's a really long term money sink. I started to like it. Something I avoided for years because it sounded too bothersome to obtain.
But I only do easy legendaries. Nothing where I have to farm or do some achievement collection.

Yesterday I decided to create the Aurene longbow and so I did. I only needed to buy a few materials (about 400g worth) and done was the thing. Now I'm trying it out on dragon hunter in wvw, a spec I never played before.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Lucy.3728

[Puck.3697]

2 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

Hard disagree. Having an actuall battlepass would send the wrong message, alienate AN's core audience, login rewards were flat out bad and unengaging system, and Wizards Vault has increased my engagement with the game alot

Well then be happy with SoTo. Lol. 

You cant expect content to increase, without the games earnings increasing. Lol that aint how business works. Game would hit bankruptcy for a 3rd time. 

You cant expect a mmorpg to be of any sorta standard. If it has basically 0 income. Lol. 

And when the game ends up being forced to close, because NCsoft have gotten bored bailing it out yearly, I will return to tell you "told you so". 

Gw2 doesn't earn enough money. Because it simply gives too much for too little. And now is reaching points where its having to basically stop adding money.

If they double the prices of expansions, players will rage. 

If anytging close to a subscription, players will rage. 

But the game will never gain playerbase without content. And trying to say it'd "alienate" the playerbase, is ridiculous. It's award nothing that gems don't already provide. 

Itd just give the game a solid income. Lol. The good thing about BPs is their not mandatory. 

5he game has so little of its core fanbase left that honestly the game actually grabbing some hype would prolly yield a higher popularity alone. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Puck.3697

[Mistwraithe.3106]

Can't say I read the whole thread but I believe I got the gist of it.

I agree with everyone who says Anet needed a more regular revenue model. I really enjoy GW2 and want it to continue to have new content, for that Anet need money and from everything I have heard (plus running a business myself) I think one of their main requirements to produce that content is a more reliable revenue stream.

Personally I think Anet made the right choice with the SOTO model. It's not that dissimilar to what we are used to with LWS and expansions. LWS should never have been free IMO, it seems Anet have finally come to the same conclusion.

I think moving to more heavily Freemium would be a complete disaster for GW2 and I think a battle pass system could also be a disaster (tho less certain). That's because of the type of people who already play GW2. We are used to being treated pretty well by Anet on the monetization front. Both Freemium and Battle Pass are generally more exploitative approaches (particularly Freemium, I've sat in conference lectures from Freemium app developers talking about the psychological and design steps they go through to open people's wallets and it's very immoral).

If Anet tried it then it's likely they would lose a significant portion of their player base as a knee jerk reaction and then a larger proportion in the following months depending on how exploitative the model actually was. As an 11 year old game I think they would have next to no chance of recouping that lost player base with players who are happy with Freemium type models.

My only question is whether the price and sales from SOTO were enough to provide that regular income for Anet. I really hope they were. I know I would be happy to pay more for more content in their annual expansions, but I know they would also get stronger complaints if they charged more.

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Mistwraithe.3106

[Trejgon.9367]

5 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

Well then be happy with SoTo. Lol. 

I am, thank you.

5 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

Game would hit bankruptcy for a 3rd time. 

Game did not hit bankrupcy even once, what are you talking about?

5 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

And when the game ends up being forced to close, because NCsoft have gotten bored bailing it out yearly, I will return to tell you "told you so". 

NCSoft is not "bailing out" GW2 yearly, there are clear financial statements made regularly showing that GW2 is bringing them solid profits, with it being the cornerstone of their western market earnings, again, what the heck are you talking about?

5 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

Gw2 doesn't earn enough money.

Enought for what? 

5 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

But the game will never gain playerbase without content.

Game has already tonne of content comparatively on the market, and it is steadilly growing.

5 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

And trying to say it'd "alienate" the playerbase, is ridiculous.

No it isn't. Just notice how many people out there got upset over mere perception of Vault being a battlepass-like system. Like it or not, core AN audience, and their one huge selling point for over decade now, was none of that monetization crap you see popping up all over the place in other games. What is ridiculous, is pretending that the game can go full cashgrab mode and survive it, lol.

5 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

5he game has so little of its core fanbase left that honestly the game actually grabbing some hype would prolly yield a higher popularity alone. 

I have never, in all of modern history of MMO, saw anyone being hyped up for a battlepass system, like ever.

What I did see plenty hype for in the broad history of MMOs are new expansions.

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

Game did not hit bankrupcy even once, what are you talking about

But it did? Lol. During PoF. The company almost shut down lol.  When they axed half the company employees and NCsoft had to step on lol. 

It's why they axed new projects and reversed on stating expansions weren't gonna be a thing anymore and they were just gonna do story like IBS. 

And game has tons of content?. Wut? Lol. It really doesn't lmao. Everyone knows it doesnt. How can you lie to urself that hard? Lol. 

Other games don't have monetization? 

They ALL have subscription fees you fool. What are you even on about they already BUY a kitten Battle pass. Its called a SUBSCRIPTION. And it costs 10 pound a month lol. 

It isnt going cash grab. Otherwise ur deeming every mmorpg on the market as a cash grab when they arent lol. 

If anything gw2 is the closest one to it, it just does it badly lmfao, given the sheer fact the only thing the game does content wise is drop stuff into the store.

The game takes 14 million annually  its litterally the lowest earning western mmorpg on the market lol. And no it ain't NCaoft have bailee them out several times. 

I can't be bothered even arguing this. U wanna seriously beleive this games OK. Go for it. 

But a mmorpg taking 14million in a quater isn't a cornerstone of the western market. WoW generates 173 million every quarter. And considering WoWs considered "dead" these days thst says alot about the current situation. 

And it's obvious. SOTO is a quarter of the size of Prior expansions. It's launched no content lol. But beleive what you wish 😂

Expansions don't get smaller, in a game that's doing well. 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Puck.3697

[Puck.3697]

2 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

have never, in all of modern history of MMO, saw anyone being hyped up for a battlepass system, like ever.

What I did see plenty hype for in the broad history of MMOs are new expansions

Cause there ain't a mmorpg that currently has a BP? Lol. But thats because the other mmorpgs have Subscriptions. Lol. 

Gw2 was the only one silly enougu to not even have a optional subscription. 

And jt doesn't earn enough money. To develope expansions of a competitive size, nor to consistently balance it.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Puck.3697

[Puck.3697]

4 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

My only question is whether the price and sales from SOTO were enough to provide that regular income for Anet. I really hope they were. I know I would be happy to pay more for more content in their annual expansions, but I know they would also get stronger complaints if they charged more

It wasnt I'm afraid. 

£20 a player in a game with less then a million players, doesnt earn enough and only having 1 quarter to generate money in isnt a good model either. 

Espically with the fact they have given up on living story. The games got nothing to sell til their next expansion title. Maybe BP ain't the perfect answer. But it needs a answer. 

And yes they will. Players would get angry if they increased prices of gw2, I will be curious to SoTos net earnings at the end of it. I cant see it even getting to EoD numbers however. 

Gw2 makes between 70-85million a year on average by Google insights, ffxiv and WoW make over 150million a quarter each, ESO as far as im aware generates 100mil-ish a year. 

I'm guessing Soto being a yearly launch, is the concept here to double the "2 year expansions income". But people are saying they're buying no more expansions for this game because of this at the same time. The real damage caused will be shown on the next expansion launch. 

The games gonna end up with something, Soto wasn't given a benefit of the doubt. Next expansions sales will be lower, and anet will be forced to make a choice, BP seems most likely as the game lacks anytging else to rly sell. 

Now sure above guy is right a portion of players will scream. But every player that stays will suddenly worth 5 players worth of income alone. 

Because right now the average player spends £0 on the game. 300k players paying out £30 minimums on a BP and a expansion cost is more income then 600k players only buying expansions thats just math.

But maybe anet will have a more creative idea then a BP to fill the void. 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Puck.3697

[Trejgon.9367]

48 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said:

But it did? Lol. During PoF. The company almost shut down lol.  When they axed half the company employees and NCsoft had to step on lol. 

It didn't go bankrupt, you are spinning here false narratives to past events. AN did start a number of new projects, and the hard times have hit, and NCSoft stepped into save their profit margins. GW2 was still being profitable, and definitelly did not go bankrupt. No clue where you got "almost shut down" from, that's nonsense.

51 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said:

reversed on stating expansions weren't gonna be a thing anymore and they were just gonna do story like IBS.

and here you are conflating two separate events. IBS was not during PoF, and it was after second layoffs, second axing of new projects, that were due to saving profit margins on COVID, and after big disappointment of no new expansions. But company that is about to go bankrupt, does not get to do big expansion (EoD) followed by next expansion being greenlit within first month after sale of first one.

54 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said:

And game has tons of content?. Wut? Lol. It really doesn't lmao. Everyone knows it doesnt. How can you lie to urself that hard? Lol. 

Core Tyria, HoT, PoF, EoD, SoTo, 4 Seasons of LWS, 5 if we count IBS as LWS, yes, game has alot of content. You may be delusional, and not think of any of that as content, but it is there.

56 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said:

Other games don't have monetization? 

I have no idea what point you are trying to raise in here, but monetization schemes of MMOs in general, are never something generating any hype about the game, and in every single case, is a cause of alot of complaints. ESPECIALLY battlepasses.

58 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said:

They ALL have subscription fees you fool. What are you even on about they already BUY a kitten Battle pass. Its called a SUBSCRIPTION. And it costs 10 pound a month lol. 

You haven't played alot of MMOs if you think all of them have subscription fees. Right from the top of the head I could even name you three titles, that launched as subscription based games, that had to downgrade to freemium within first year of the game, because they were unable get enough players otherwise to survive. And if you claim equivalence between subscription, and a battlepass system, it only goes to show how little you know on different monetization schemes.

1 hour ago, Puck.3697 said:

It isnt going cash grab. Otherwise ur deeming every mmorpg on the market as a cash grab when they arent lol. 

What your proposal was for AN to go full cashgrab mode essentially. Start doing everything against that which has stood for the foundantion of their success, to get more funds.

1 hour ago, Puck.3697 said:

The game takes 14 million annually  its litterally the lowest earning western mmorpg on the market lol. And no it ain't NCaoft have bailee them out several times. 

There is not a single instance of annual or quarterly finantial report (which are published by NCSoft regularly) where GW2 would fail to bring in profit, and all of the NCSoft titles that bring in more profit than GW2 do so on korean market. There is no "bailing" when your company is constantly turning profits.

1 hour ago, Puck.3697 said:

I can't be bothered even arguing this.

You can't be even bothered doing your homework on the subject you are trying to argue, so I am not surprised.

1 hour ago, Puck.3697 said:

But a mmorpg taking 14million in a quater isn't a cornerstone of the western market. WoW generates 173 million every quarter. And considering WoWs considered "dead" these days thst says alot about the current situation

And that is a strawman - I said it was cornerstone of NCSOFT EARNINGS in the western market, not whole of it, even if it does qualify into "the big 5" of western MMOs by most sources out there. Also, WoW is not considered "dead" but "dying" there is a difference.

1 hour ago, Puck.3697 said:

And it's obvious. SOTO is a quarter of the size of Prior expansions

It is smaller, in exchange for us not having to wait another 4 years for it.

1 hour ago, Puck.3697 said:

It's launched no content lol.

Factually incorrect, at this point I am starting to ponder if you even understand what the word "content" means. It does have less of it than previous expansions, that would be true.

1 hour ago, Puck.3697 said:

Expansions don't get smaller, in a game that's doing well. 

That is such a loaded statement, I am not even sure where to start. Yes, there is a distinct possibility for a game to be doing well, by moving from massive expansions every eternity, to regular smaller expansions.

1 hour ago, Puck.3697 said:

Cause there ain't a mmorpg that currently has a BP?

There are a number of MMOs with battlepass systems. Just as with alot of other things in this thread, your ignorance does not make things cease existing.

1 hour ago, Puck.3697 said:

Gw2 was the only one silly enougu to not even have a optional subscription. 

That is not so clear cut, as the situation is shifting with each new title, but there are MMOs out there (STO comes in mind) that have in fact dropped their optional subscription (in case of STO it was a rocky road going from subscription required, to freemium, to dropping recurring optional sub - the perks of the sub technically are still possible to get, but as a single purchase "lifetime subscription"), but in every MMO that has optional subscription, the scope and existance of that subscription is a very common criticism.

1 hour ago, Puck.3697 said:

And jt doesn't earn enough money. To develope expansions of a competitive size, nor to consistently balance it.

Random fun fact. Folks around ESO have recently celebrated, how Necrom was largest expansion it had in years. This expansion, all things summed up, was still smaller than SotO. And it has all the optional subscription, loot boxes it should be earning so much money, right? Argument could be of course made that they are not earning enough for longterm support of giving away for free so much content it has over the years, which is why they decided to adopt the release schedule that ESO has been successfully running for couple years now, and if you think that releasing new expac every year is not going to bring in the cash, then I dunno what to tell you.

57 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said:

It wasnt I'm afraid. 

£20 a player in a game with less then a million players, doesnt earn enough and only having 1 quarter to generate money in isnt a good model either. 

And here you are again pulling numbers out of yer kitten, without even considering the NCSoft quarterly results. And completely omitting their primary income source for years now - the gemstore.

1 hour ago, Puck.3697 said:

Espically with the fact they have given up on living story. The games got nothing to sell til their next expansion title.

Living story they were not selling either. They were giving it away for free. Also claiming that game got nothing to sell till their next expansion is again misinformed - gemstore it is, still fulled to brim with stuff people want (varying between conveniences to cosmetics), and with quarterly regular releases to bring attention of players to the game, so they can hang around and buy stuff.

1 hour ago, Puck.3697 said:

Gw2 makes between 70-85million a year on average by Google insights

I will take a moment to commend you that for once you provided a source for your numbers. Good job!

1 hour ago, Puck.3697 said:

But people are saying they're buying no more expansions for this game because of this at the same time. The real damage caused will be shown on the next expansion launch. 

For every forumite proclaiming they will stop buying more expansions in this game, I have met at least two people in other places of the internet, whom were happy with what SotO did and will continue to do, just to bear in mind that official forums have tendency of being negative echochambers.

1 hour ago, Puck.3697 said:

But every player that stays will suddenly worth 5 players worth of income alone. 

And every game trying to embrace that kind of thinking, died. Do with that knowledge what you will.

1 hour ago, Puck.3697 said:

Because right now the average player spends £0 on the game.

you were doing so well on numbers, and then you decided to once again make it up 😞(hint hint, that is not how averages work)

[Balsa.3951]

On 11/10/2023 at 5:10 PM, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Except a core player has access to Ascended gear just like other people with said Ascended gear being the same level of stats ever since it came out.

If you stop playing during HoT and come back now your Reaper wearing level 80 Exotic gear will have the exact same stats. 

If you stop playing WoW at the start of DF with theoretically the best gear obtainable, by now there'd be better. BiS gear from previous expansion is around the level of starting gear in the new expansion. 
I stopped playing Shadowlands with ~275 ilevel, now the lowest dungeon loot in DF dungeons is like 340.

That is vertical progression, Anet adding tidbits of gear or extras that make you stronger by a little bit is not.

If each expansion increased the max level allowing us to get stronger and stronger gear then yeah, you'd be right with vertical progression, but as I said, someone playing in 2014 with full Ascended gear won't have less stats than now.

2014 already had viper stats? 

heart of thorn was introduced October 2015

so u are plain wrong just with ur statement.

so ask u again does gw2 has vertical progression?

getting confused reaction from ppl who ignore facts bcs opinion is what they count on.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Balsa.3951

[Trejgon.9367]

15 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said:

2014 already had viper stats? 

No, but this is not what he claimed - your 2014 Berserker have exact same stat spread now as they did back then, and if you were fine with performance of your berserker gear in 2014, you will continue being fine with your 2014 berserker gear in 2023. Just because new stat option from later expansion was then hailed as new meta for Condi/Hybrid DPS, does not mean that your old stats got somehow diminished.

[Cyninja.2954]

30 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said:

2014 already had viper stats? 

heart of thorn was introduced October 2015

so u are plain wrong just with ur statement.

so ask u again does gw2 has vertical progression?

getting confused reaction from ppl who ignore facts bcs opinion is what they count on.

Viper stats are side grades. As far as rarity goes, they are not progression. As far as having to reacquire the gear, aka additional or new items needing to be farmed, the stat changing in this game for ascended makes that too a moot point too.

All the slots which have always been present have NOT been vertically progressed in regards to power since the addition of ascended.

Now the jadebot as well as the relic introduced are one time vertical progression additions. The former in form of strait up additional stats, the later in form of an additional slot which needs to be serviced. Those are unrelated to gear rarity.

While it is something to keep an eye on, to balloon it up and claim vertical progression when the main comparison products in the market do more vertical progression on a 3 month basis is iffy. The limited one time vertical progression on 2 slots (discounting the 1 time addition of ascended in the very beginning) is NOT on the same level as game designed with vertical progression in mind and that distinction is important to make.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[SentriX.3209]

They should have kept the old log in rewards and added a 10$ battlepass...they make money we get something cool to grind for. This current system is just a loss-loss system as the rewards are pretty much meh(they can't put cool stuff in otherwise why would you buy gems) and I don't feel like completing dailies for them. They MUST monetize this game somehow 25eu/year is nothing and that's why we're getting literally nothing in quarterly updates, you pay nothing and you get nothing. I don't even feel like logging in as of late...and when I do it's to play WvW.

Edited November 14, 2023 by SentriX.3209

[Balsa.3951]

2 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Viper stats are side grades. As far as rarity goes, they are not progression. As far as having to reacquire the gear, aka additional or new items needing to be farmed, the stat changing in this game for ascended makes that too a moot point too.

All the slots which have always been present have NOT been vertically progressed in regards to power since the addition of ascended.

Now the jadebot as well as the relic introduced are one time vertical progression additions. The former in form of strait up additional stats, the later in form of an additional slot which needs to be serviced. Those are unrelated to gear rarity.

While it is something to keep an eye on, to balloon it up and claim vertical progression when the main comparison products in the market do more vertical progression on a 3 month basis is iffy. The limited one time vertical progression on 2 slots (discounting the 1 time addition of ascended in the very beginning) is NOT on the same level as game designed with vertical progression in mind and that distinction is important to make.

one excuse after another this don't count that don't count. so long the name is gw2 and not wow it all does not count ok u win 

jade bot, infusion, better gear stats all not count ok ok

[Westenev.5289]

I'm not fond of part-map releases, or the 2-part metas that inhabit them. I think the mini expansion would be easier to swallow if we got 3 whole maps, even if we had to wait for the third to cook.

[illuminati.8453]

On 11/9/2023 at 10:16 AM, Tanuki.4603 said:

Are we really comfortable with the current ANet approach being the right future for GW2? Paying for unifnished expansions that bring very little every 3-4 months? There has to be a better way to deliver content.

Only time will tell.  It is obvious to everyone that things have changed at ANet and they aren't able to produce at the level they have in the past. 

That being said, it doesn't mean the game still can't be fun but, for me, this first xpac done in the new way isn't really satisfying.  Apart from rifts (occasionally now), I'm actually just back doing the same thing I've been doing for years (i.e. enjoying their past efforts). 

[Holmindeboks.3490]

51 minutes ago, illuminati.8453 said:

Only time will tell.  It is obvious to everyone that things have changed at ANet and they aren't able to produce at the level they have in the past. 

That being said, it doesn't mean the game still can't be fun but, for me, this first xpac done in the new way isn't really satisfying.  Apart from rifts (occasionally now), I'm actually just back doing the same thing I've been doing for years (i.e. enjoying their past efforts). 

Maybe they where scared that the game is nearly dead (dont know the english word but in my language its failliet) and has to get in maintenance mode. I mean. There where plenty companys that had to quit after pandemy. Everything cost more and ppl make prioritys where to spend money on.
 

Maybe thats why they removed the daily login reward so ppl with many alt account dont get ez gold anymore (so anet hope they go buy gems)

reason 2, they sold the xpack before its finished so they got they money already to expand/extend the time. I mean. If they choose to work on it then the game is maybe dead already before they finished the expansion. (I mean, ppl leave of being bored before expansion is finished and doesnt come back maybe, because there are more/ nicer/ better games out there) now this way ppl already bought 1/4 expansion and so stay ingame and keep playing to see what comes more, this way anet generate money because ppl will probably spend gems while waiting for part 2/4 of the expansion. 
 

also maybe thats why we get so many op things last time. Legendary open world armor. Or other new types of professions. Just read mesmer ranged healer. Its something nice new without doing too much (i think) instead of a whole new profession (class) they just tweak some existing professions and give it a weapon, 5 new abilitys with visuals and its done. 
 

i think they are in a bad state/situation if you think about what i said. Someone said that steam was not what they expacted. And giving base game away for free also not. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Holmindeboks.3490