Expanded Weapon Proficiencies Beta Feedback: Revenant

[Knighthonor.4061]

Trying to justify using Scepter Shield over Staff/Staff swap. 

[Phyb.6704]

24 minutes ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

Trying to justify using Scepter Shield over Staff/Staff swap. 

I dont think not having staff on swap is doable due to 5 being a big break bar skill. Scepter would be more viable if skill 2 was cheaper but longer fuse. 2 gave a water field and skill 1 was a combo finisher like it is on staff. 

[Flapjackson.1596]

This weapon is very solid and a good addition to Heal Herald’s toolkit. I know the barrier is overtuned so I won’t be surprised when it’s nerfed.

My feedback is that the visuals of the weapon are extremely messy. The auto blade is obnoxious. I’m also not a fan of the choice to make all the skills red. Feels like you’re limiting the color scheme compared to most rev weapons just being the muted misty color. We watched Kryptis so now we can use a scepter and it’s all red? It’s a weird stretch. 

[Knighthonor.4061]

Does the skill 2 even work? It never does the barrier part

[arazoth.7290]

5 hours ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

Does the skill 2 even work? It never does the barrier part

allies/you have to be in enemy 360 radius when it explodes to gain barrier. After enemy dies, it explodes where enemy died

[Riot Inducer.8964]

This is a unique one that's for sure. The part of me that loved playing Knight Enchanter in Dragon Age Inquisition loves the aesthetic of a big honking magic blade that generates barrier so definite kudos for delivering that feeling. However the other two skills are a bit fiddly. I like the trend of powering up the other skills with the auto attacks but it is a bit annoying having to jump through so many hoops if you want to push the damaging side of the weapon. 

I'm not sure what the best way to improve this one is, it can do a lot for support but can also be refocused to damage without having to change too much either. It works well on a Vindicator that already has that mix of offense and support, however I don't think it will gel quite as well with other specs that have more upkeep skills to compete for those energy pips.

I think the best route might be reduce the upkeep of the tether to -2 so it doesn't overwhelm upkeep heavy legends like Glint

 

[Malus.2184]

I think Scepter would benefit a lot from some conceptual rewrites. The Tether is supposed to be a central aspect of the weapon and right now just feels like an afterthought as it essentially does nothing noticeable.

Otherworldy Tether:  Reduce the Upkeep either a little or a lot since by the time you get the good effect the Upkeep has often drained all the energy you have since due to time application it takes a minimum of two pulses to get the Fury, you can get the same effect as a Herald by using Facet of Darkness and it's a lot easier. This is six seconds and 18 Energy for an effect that you as a a Herald can get much easier and better as they default affect five targets in a 600-unit radius. Using the Tether should by default affect five friendly targets since practically Heralds can give those boons a lot easier and for every other spec affecting three targets is too little to be proper support. 

Instead of, getting stacks pr. hit I would change the stacks to be reversely proportional to the amount of targets hit so, the more targets hit the fewer stacks pr. target hit and the fewer targets hit the more stacks gained pr. target since the effect is oddly less effective the fewer targets there are.

The Otherworldly Tether is meant to be a focal point of the Tehter, a highly symbiotic effect. As such, it should affect the auto attack in a major way, when you Tether to a target your auto attacks now affect five targets, and it pulses to affect up to five targets based on the stack of Tether.

I think those changes would feel like the Scepter had more synergy with itself and be useful to every spec as there's a vast difference between the theoretical effect the Scepter has and the practical effect it has.

And extend the range of the auto attack, making that unique since it summons that giant sword that extends far away.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Malus.2184

[JadenSimic.3941]

The animation of scepter skills is really... very visible 😄 I think it would be good to tone down the size of the Mist sword effect so its not in everyone's (including mine) face all the time.

I'm also worried about the might ramp-up. This weapon feels like its supposed to take the place of mace in the current heal herald meta. Mace, however, provides solid might ramp up and uptime, which seems to be lacking with scepter.

[draxynnic.3719]

19 hours ago, Kaliso.9461 said:

As an addendum, I don't dislike this as a melee weapon! But the range may as well be 130 like everything else, as it doesn't feel any different at 300. 

Wouldn't be the first time. See if you can find videos of guardian using the sword auto from shortly after guardian was announced. Then they made it a chain where most of the extra range was only on the final strike, but they still had a bit of lightsaber-like blade extension so the first two skills had ranges slightly greater than 130 to reflect that. Then the effects reduction patch came in, and that effect pretty much disappeared, and I noticed the other day that the first two skills of the chain had had their ranges "normalised" to 130.

[Kaizz.7306]

I like the scepter for the support role, but it feels clunky to use.  Everything being tied to autoattacking with 1 makes it feel very strict. I get the dynamic intended, but it's not translating to anything "fun" for me. Also the animation, while really cool, does not match the target cap of 3. I know a lot of 5 target stuff is getting downscaled, but it should honestly be 5 with that animation. Especially Motivating Whirl, what with it literally saying "Whirl around", but still only hits 3. If, for balance reason, it has to stay at 3, can the animation just be shortened, or made like an enchantment type deal? Like a constant aura flowing over the scepter when drawn, almost like a legendary effect? Final note, the condensed mist "lightsaber" animation does not work with Aurene's Wisdom lol every other scepter, but not this one.

2 (Blossoming Aura) feels good, but I would rather it be a line or cone attack that marks enemies, and if enemies are hit by anything (up to 3 times) the effect is increased. I'm really not enjoying this reliance on the Scepters loop of Cast Skill -> Autoattack->Cast Skill. It hasn't even been a full week of me messing with this, and it's already tedious and boring. Otherworldly Bond is really nice, but for the scepters support role, it'd be nice if, when tethered to an ally, at 3+ stacks it cleansed 1 condition per interval in an area around the target and/or yourself. There's so many sources of might depending on the build, it really feels redundant at this point. No matter what, having a -3 energy is mental. -1 or even -2 is ok, I know the effect when tethered to an enemy is obnoxious, but holy that's not fun. 

This is from a 99% WvW player that dabbles in fractals and strikes, so I already know my ideas will seem absurd. I really do like the scepter, I just feel like it can mesh better together without being reliant on spamming 1 after a cast. Really wish there was a way to incorporate more energy GAIN in scepter to further help the rest of my support kit to do well. 

[arazoth.7290]

•SCEPTER•

I write here what I think could be done to make it smoother/fluent and in some parts better damage.

• Skill 1 auto attack:  

- Barrier is applied on each auto attack and not only last. Numbers are ofcourse spread evenly from current.

- 3rd chain auto attack hits 5 people

- Make auto attack animations 25% faster, cast time stays same. Only the animations make it little bit slow for a 0,5sec cast.

• Skill 2 Blossoming Aura:

- 10 energy => 5 energy cost, little much for a 2nd skill.

- Buff in pve/wvw/pvp baseline damage of pulsing and final damage. The increasing effects from auto attack are done fine, only baseline needs little higher.

- Final damage also should hit 5 enemies around applied target in same 360 radius (damage isn't spread). 

• Skill 3 Otherwordly Bond:

- 3 upkeep cost reduced to => 2 upkeep.

- Tether upkeep stacks gets generated in 2 ways. Each 1 second while tether is active, it generates 1 stack. Ontop of each 1 sec passively, you can make it generate it faster through auto attacks still. This would make it smoother to use and more reliant for otherwordly attraction to use!

- Otherwordly attraction if you pull the targeted enemy with it, it should damage them heavy on impact of pull while still applying vurnability stacks.

If the target gets damaged on impact, enemies get hit around it in a 360 radius. It is little underwhelming atm because this isn't there.

This is too call it fair to otherwordly attraction shared barrier and teleport skill on allies.

[arazoth.7290]

Just now, arazoth.7290 said:

•SCEPTER•

I write here what I think could be done to make it smoother/fluent and in some parts better damage.

• Skill 1 auto attack:  

- Barrier is applied on each auto attack and not only last. Numbers are ofcourse spread evenly from current.

- 3rd chain auto attack hits 5 people

- Make auto attack animations 25% faster, cast time stays same. Only the animations make it little bit slow for a 0,5sec cast.

• Skill 2 Blossoming Aura:

- 10 energy => 5 energy cost, little much for a 2nd skill.

- Buff in pve/wvw/pvp baseline damage of pulsing and final damage. The increasing effects from auto attack are done fine, only baseline needs little higher.

- Final damage also should hit 5 enemies around applied target in same 360 radius (damage isn't spread). 

• Skill 3 Otherwordly Bond:

- 3 upkeep cost reduced to => 2 upkeep.

- Tether upkeep stacks gets generated in 2 ways. Each 1 second while tether is active, it generates 1 stack. Ontop of each 1 sec passively, you can make it generate it faster through auto attacks still. This would make it smoother to use and more reliant for otherwordly attraction to use!

- Otherwordly attraction if you pull the targeted enemy with it, it should damage them heavy on impact of pull while still applying vurnability stacks.

If the target gets damaged on impact, enemies get hit around it in a 360 radius. It is little underwhelming atm because this isn't there.

This is too call it fair to otherwordly attraction shared barrier and teleport skill on allies.

The most important change if I would choose to make its playstyle better + reliable.

 ===> Skill 3 tether <===

• Give tether passive stack generation, 1 stack each second. Auto attacks can still enchance it faster.

• Tether 2nd consume skill: give it damage vs enemies. Versus allies you get big barrier and versus enemies only few vulnerability stacks if you look aside teleport/pull which are nice, the damaging side is underwhelming on consume.

[Knightmare.8634]

Overall, I really like the ideas and concepts behind this weapon. After playing around with it though there are some flaws that make it feel clunky. The challenge though is a difficult one with trying to make it fill two roles with only 3 skill slots.

Fortunately, with a few minor changes I believe this can become a solid weapon. If we go a few more steps beyond that though … I think you can hit all of your marks that you set out to hit when designing the dual role nature of this weapon and make it an absolute blast to play at the same time.

Here are my suggestions minus the number tunings:
(Please note I did not read through everyone else’s suggestions. All credit to other's if they had the same/similar ideas… some of these seem obvious to me.)

Bare Minimum - If you change nothing else please do this one.

• Blossoming Aura needs to “tick” the Otherwordly Bond Buff.

Baseline 

• Blossoming Aura
  • Needs to “tick” the Otherwordly Bond Buff.
    • With the final hit it “ticks” 5 times now.
    • Either add a 6^th “tick” or reduce the max needed 5.
    • This makes the pull/port much more interesting and useful.
    • The final tick needs to do aoe damage. Ok if reduced to others.
  • Needs tuned to not need the buff from the 3 auto attacks.
    • Without the auto attack buff it feels terrible.
  • Trade Off
    • Increase the cooldown to 8-10 seconds.
  • How to get the “interplay” theme back between skill 2 and the auto.
    • The Auto attack now reduces the cooldown of skill 2.

 

Ideal – (In addition to all of the above changes)

• Auto Attack Chain
  •  900 Range Front Slash (just take necro’s 1h sword animation)
  • Pierces
  • 5 Targets
  • Grants additional barrier/might to allies based on the number of enemies struck.
    • Same 360 radius around you.
  • Trade off
    • Massive damage fall off at range?
      • Note - Its seems to me this was a design decision from the start to not make this a range weapon. I’m guessing to possible leave room for a 1h range option in the future. However the rest of the kit really wants to be range and this gives it a similar feel to what you initially was going for.
• Blossoming Aura
  • Allow to be cast directly on an ally.
    • Pulses barrier with big barrier payoff at the end. Builds ticks the same way.
  • Iffy on this one but it probably should be a blast finisher as well.
• Otherwordly Bond
  • Should last for 2-3 seconds after you break tether or use the pull/port.
    • This would allow for some weapon swap play.
  • The pulsing cripple/slow needs to be removed off the tether pulses.
    • To be honest its OP on the one target and has to feel terrible for the other player.
    • Suggestion would be to make it so the final attack in auto attack chain now inflicts cripple/slow based on the number of stacks.

 

 

           

[Tokizo.8917]

Hi,

I tested the scepter in PVE, in 2 metas and some strikes. 

Personally I like the design and the base idea. As someone who would love to use Sword/Shield as a support weapon and who loves Rev, this is as close as it gets. But I can see why people might be upset that this weapon isn't ranged. 

What i find weird is the difference in the skills that the auto attack is for melee range while the other attacks are ranged. 

The barrier application is fantastic and it helps keeping the group alive. I have read that people think it is too strong but I think since this set doesn't provide condition cleance, no cc and doesn't heal on auto, you will be swapping between Staff and Scepter/Shield a lot and you won't be having this barrier application all the time, making it good how it currently is. Also compared to other classes barrier application it is not OP...

The Auto: Seems ok, maybe a little faster and application of Barrier and maybe boons on each hit instead of only on the last hit

Blossoming aura: Great Barrier application and in strikes useable as you are all flocked up in a spot and attacking the Boss. However it loses it's barrier apllication if you need to do mechanics or iin other game modes where you can't use the auto attack consistanly. 

Otherworldly bond/attraction: With how the curret skill is working, it feels pretty useless. The conditions on the enemys are great but feels too strong and don't fit with the support theme. Theatering an ally is not really neccecary and the benefit it is not woth it. Using otherworldly attraction is generally worse than keeping the Bond on the Enemy. 
Also the cost of the skill is really weird. If you would want to use it in Herald it would need to be either 1 to fit in with Facet of Light and Facet of Chaos or 4 to be uses with Facet of nature while on Ventari instead of protective solance. However 4 is way too much to be used for anything else and would make this skill absolutly useless on Glint and the other elite specs.

 

The last point i want to make is the question: Who is this weapon for? obviously for a support. But which support and when?

Since I have not played WvW or PvP at all in recent times, I can only speak for PVE so here are my thoughts:

It does not do enough damage or has any benefits to be used as an offensive support weapon. 

So we are left with a defensive support / healer. 

Heal Quickness Herald is a good choice and support class and the new Shield update is absolutly great and the healing of shield also allows the use for a good main hand support since you have 2 good heals in this set. But what does Herald lack? Glint doesn't provide any Vigor or Resolution.  And since the Vigor application of Ventari doesn't last very long, this weapon would have been a great choice to make up for it. Now it does only apply barrier and is otherwise not really needed for this class

Heal Alacrtity Renegade is missing quiet a lot: better protection application, Regeneration apllication in general and better furry application. If this weapon could have provided a regeneration and protection application maybe alac healer renegade could have been a usable class. I personally think these important boons should be provided by a class specific skills and traits but i know other classes also use weapon skills for certain boons. 

Heal Vindicator is of course missing either Quickness or Alacrity and is unsuable in PVE as long as it is missing those. But let's assume that Vindi will get one of these. Actually this class would benefit most from this currently weapon set as it is lacking fury application. Also the Vigor is barely enough and the might application could be a little but more stable but is ok. Besides Fury it is missing swiftness and resolution.

So summerizing this weapon does not cover the needs which the support classes are currently lacking. The 3. Skill needs a big rework. In his youtube video Spudzie suggests that this weapon could change the boon application based on what legend is currently used. I think that is a great idea since every legend is missing certains boons and this way this weaopon would help every support build.

Here are my suggestions:

Glint: Vigor + Resolution

Ventari: Fury + Resolution

Kala: Regeneration + Protection

Alliance: Fury + Quickness/Alac?

Shiro: Might + Vigor

Jalis: Protection + Vigor?

Malix: regeneration + fury

[arazoth.7290]

I still think the most important needed change, without changing almost noting how it already functions and making it a more flexible weapon. ===>

==> Skill 3 tether <===

• Give tether passive stack generation, 1 stack each second. Auto attacks can still enchance it faster.

• Tether 2nd consume skill: give it aoe damage on impact pull, if applied vs enemy.

 

This would directly deal with the problem, it not having enough damage. The stacks generating will become smoother also and most importantly, reliable to set up. Atm tether gaining stacks isn't reliable when you need it in time.

 

Tether upkeep effects are strong, but not overwhelming on enemy. Because your damage when it is active, is lower because upkeep costs energy and less room to do more effects (this is fine).

Now if you want to use the tether pull on enemy for extra damage because of what I suggested, you can. 

Tether will with passive generating stacks each second (ontop of autos if u're close) pull enemies easier. Or you teleporting to allies. With a reliable tether, like this, you can mend/escape allies/enemies in need better. 

Even if people use upkeep skiills now with tether, they can be sure, it will hinder them less. Because a reliable/faster consume is there and can be set up easier, so you can set up your energy management better also !

[Nokaon.4603]

10 hours ago, Knightmare.8634 said:

Overall, I really like the ideas and concepts behind this weapon. After playing around with it though there are some flaws that make it feel clunky. The challenge though is a difficult one with trying to make it fill two roles with only 3 skill slots.

Fortunately, with a few minor changes I believe this can become a solid weapon. If we go a few more steps beyond that though … I think you can hit all of your marks that you set out to hit when designing the dual role nature of this weapon and make it an absolute blast to play at the same time.

Here are my suggestions minus the number tunings:
(Please note I did not read through everyone else’s suggestions. All credit to other's if they had the same/similar ideas… some of these seem obvious to me.)

Bare Minimum - If you change nothing else please do this one.

• Blossoming Aura needs to “tick” the Otherwordly Bond Buff.

Baseline 

• Blossoming Aura
  • Needs to “tick” the Otherwordly Bond Buff.
    • With the final hit it “ticks” 5 times now.
    • Either add a 6^th “tick” or reduce the max needed 5.
    • This makes the pull/port much more interesting and useful.
    • The final tick needs to do aoe damage. Ok if reduced to others.
  • Needs tuned to not need the buff from the 3 auto attacks.
    • Without the auto attack buff it feels terrible.
  • Trade Off
    • Increase the cooldown to 8-10 seconds.
  • How to get the “interplay” theme back between skill 2 and the auto.
    • The Auto attack now reduces the cooldown of skill 2.

 

Ideal – (In addition to all of the above changes)

• Auto Attack Chain
  •  900 Range Front Slash (just take necro’s 1h sword animation)
  • Pierces
  • 5 Targets
  • Grants additional barrier/might to allies based on the number of enemies struck.
    • Same 360 radius around you.
  • Trade off
    • Massive damage fall off at range?
      • Note - Its seems to me this was a design decision from the start to not make this a range weapon. I’m guessing to possible leave room for a 1h range option in the future. However the rest of the kit really wants to be range and this gives it a similar feel to what you initially was going for.
• Blossoming Aura
  • Allow to be cast directly on an ally.
    • Pulses barrier with big barrier payoff at the end. Builds ticks the same way.
  • Iffy on this one but it probably should be a blast finisher as well.
• Otherwordly Bond
  • Should last for 2-3 seconds after you break tether or use the pull/port.
    • This would allow for some weapon swap play.
  • The pulsing cripple/slow needs to be removed off the tether pulses.
    • To be honest its OP on the one target and has to feel terrible for the other player.
    • Suggestion would be to make it so the final attack in auto attack chain now inflicts cripple/slow based on the number of stacks.

 

 removing the slow+cripple basically ruins any kind of dps you can do with it currently, so i disagree with that.

           

 

[ViciousVyne.2935]

Disclaimer: This feedback is purely from a WvW and PvP perspective, more particularly from a roaming / small scale view.

I was hoping the scepter would take on a more supportive role, so I am happy to see the direction that ArenaNet is taking this weapon. However I feel like when designing it, they focused more on doing things the "unique" way, instead of going with what would actually make sense. Seeing how ArenaNet managed to turn the original design of the Vindicator around, after lots of feedback from the community, I still remain hopeful that with a few tweaks and changes this weapon could be in a solid spot.

First thing to note is that the weapon feels very clunky and unintuitive. I believe parts of it comes down to the auto attack being melee-ranged, while the rest of the kit is medium-ranged. Right now, Revenants already have access to 2 melee main hand weapons, and what they are lacking is a ranged option to pair with their other available offhand sets (Sword, Axe, Shield). This would probably be less of an issue, if the entire design of the weapon didn't revolve around me having to spam auto attacks to get any use of the other abilities.

This leads me to the next issue I've experienced, which is the whole stack building by auto attacking. I feel like the decision for this was made in a complete vacuum (e.g. by whacking Golems in a testing area). Having to land 6 auto attacks to enable the pull/teleport on Otherworldly Bond seems fine, when you're up against Golems who just stand still, but when you're running around in a WvW/PvP environment, you will face players who will actively dodge, block, blind and kite you around. This means that it's going to take a lot longer to build those stacks, than if you're up against PvE Mobs. The general combat flow for Revenants right now, is to sit in each legend for about 10 seconds, before swapping to the next legend to regain energy. Being forced to spend the vast majority of those 10 seconds chasing someone around, trying to hit them with auto attacks just doesn't add up to me, and is the last thing that I would consider fun gameplay. 

Additionally, I don't understand the idea of unlocking a teleport/pull-type ability, by making us run up to the enemy in melee range, and then charge it up. Shouldn't a pull be used to bring someone closer to us, instead of forcing us to chase them? Alternatively for the allied teleport, it also makes it very hard to use. I tether myself to an ally that I see in need of help...and then I am supposed to chase around the enemy, spamming auto attacks before I can even think of assisting my ally.

The easiest way to fix this from my perspective would be, to remove the auto-attack stacking all together, and put the build-up completely on Otherworldly Bond. The Skill already has an upkeep cost. Just make it so that, once activated, the skill will start building up stacks for as long as I upkeep it. Once it reaches its 6 stacks, it allows us to unlock the pull/teleport. This would free us up to do things other than just spam auto attacks, while also letting us support from a medium range, not being forced to constantly be in melee range. 

The next thing I would change is to turn the auto attack into a regular 900 range skill, that applies it's benefits in a radius around your target. More particularly a non-projectile version, how we see it on the Necro scepter or axe for example. With the above proposed changes, it would make the entire kit feel more streamlined. This might not sound as cool as a lightning sabre, but I'd much rather take a useful generic skill over a niche and unique one.

I also believe that the scepter would be a perfect option to add a legend-based boon/condition on top of the auto attacks, the way it is on the underwater trident. I think right now it is too limited in only being a support weapon, and I would like to see some play for Hybrid builds. If the barrier application for these kinds of builds is a concern, then the applied barrier numbers can always be tweaked/lowered for more offensive legends, while keeping them on more supportive/defensive ones. We already have the Hammer, which is only ever useful in WvW zerging, and practically sees no use outside of it. I'd hate to see another weapon go down the route of "this is the only situation it's viable" and collect dust for anyone else.


Additional notes: If the auto attack remains melee ranged, then please for the love of god change the animation. It's too flashy, and too rigid. It clips through the floor and just ... "feels off?". One option would be to add a similar effect which exists on the Guardian staff right now. Just turn it into a red mist cloud that expands forward, or as other's have pointed out in this thread already, change it to a whip-like effect.

Edited December 5, 2023 by ViciousVyne.2935

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, ViciousVyne.2935 said:

Disclaimer: This feedback is purely from a WvW and PvP perspective, more particularly from a roaming / small scale view.

I was hoping the scepter would take on a more supportive role, so I am happy to see the direction that ArenaNet is taking this weapon. However I feel like when designing it, they focused more on doing things the "unique" way, instead of going with what would actually make sense. Seeing how ArenaNet managed to turn the original design of the Vindicator around, after lots of feedback from the community, I still remain hopeful that with a few tweaks and changes this weapon could be in a solid spot.

First thing to note is that the weapon feels very clunky and unintuitive. I believe parts of it comes down to the auto attack being melee-ranged, while the rest of the kit is medium-ranged. Right now, Revenants already have access to 2 melee main hand weapons, and what they are lacking is a ranged option to pair with their other available offhand sets (Sword, Axe, Shield). This would probably be less of an issue, if the entire design of the weapon didn't revolve around me having to spam auto attacks to get any use of the other abilities.

This leads me to the next issue I've experienced, which is the whole stack building by auto attacking. I feel like the decision for this was made in a complete vacuum (e.g. by whacking Golems in a testing area). Having to land 6 auto attacks to enable the pull/teleport on Otherworldly Bond seems fine, when you're up against Golems who just stand still, but when you're running around in a WvW/PvP environment, you will face players who will actively dodge, block, blind and kite you around. This means that it's going to take a lot longer to build those stacks, than if you're up against PvE Mobs. The general combat flow for Revenants right now, is to sit in each legend for about 10 seconds, before swapping to the next legend to regain energy. Being forced to spend the vast majority of those 10 seconds chasing someone around, trying to hit them with auto attacks just doesn't add up to me, and is the last thing that I would consider fun gameplay. 

Additionally, I don't understand the idea of unlocking a teleport/pull-type ability, by making us run up to the enemy in melee range, and then charge it up. Shouldn't a pull be used to bring someone closer to us, instead of forcing us to chase them? Alternatively for the allied teleport, it also makes it very hard to use. I tether myself to an ally that I see in need of help...and then I am supposed to chase around the enemy, spamming auto attacks before I can even think of assisting my ally.

The easiest way to fix this from my perspective would be, to remove the auto-attack stacking all together, and put the build-up completely on Otherworldly Bond. The Skill already has an upkeep cost. Just make it so that, once activated, the skill will start building up stacks for as long as I upkeep it. Once it reaches its 6 stacks, it allows us to unlock the pull/teleport. This would free us up to do things other than just spam auto attacks, while also letting us support from a medium range, not being forced to constantly be in melee range. 

The next thing I would change is to turn the auto attack into a regular 900 range skill, that applies it's benefits in a radius around your target. More particularly a non-projectile version, how we see it on the Necro scepter or axe for example. With the above proposed changes, it would make the entire kit feel more streamlined. This might not sound as cool as a lightning sabre, but I'd much rather take a useful generic skill over a niche and unique one.

I also believe that the scepter would be a perfect option to add a legend-based boon/condition on top of the auto attacks, the way it is on the underwater trident. I think right now it is too limited in only being a support weapon, and I would like to see some play for Hybrid builds. If the barrier application for these kinds of builds is a concern, then the applied barrier numbers can always be tweaked/lowered for more offensive legends, while keeping them on more supportive/defensive ones. We already have the Hammer, which is only ever useful in WvW zerging, and practically sees no use outside of it. I'd hate to see another weapon go down the route of "this is the only situation it's viable" and collect dust for anyone else.


Additional notes: If the auto attack remains melee ranged, then please for the love of god change the animation. It's too flashy, and too rigid. It clips through the floor and just ... "feels off?". One option would be to add a similar effect which exists on the Guardian staff right now. Just turn it into a red mist cloud that expands forward, or as other's have pointed out in this thread already, change it to a whip-like effect.

A red blackish mist whip. Sort of like this 

?  😁

 

Btw about tether yea, it should generate each second a stack while it is applied. Just to make reliable in situations like you summed up indeed. 

But if auto attacks stays 300 range, auto attacks should fasten tether stacks up too if they hit the target. 

1 last thing if tether is applied on enemy has full stacks for consume pull effect ==> give it an aoe attack on impact to increase scepter overal damage.

( Also because tether consume skill has less value on enemies compared to allies useage which teleports and gives barrier)

Edited December 5, 2023 by arazoth.7290

[draxynnic.3719]

17 hours ago, ViciousVyne.2935 said:

Disclaimer: This feedback is purely from a WvW and PvP perspective, more particularly from a roaming / small scale view.

I was hoping the scepter would take on a more supportive role, so I am happy to see the direction that ArenaNet is taking this weapon. However I feel like when designing it, they focused more on doing things the "unique" way, instead of going with what would actually make sense. Seeing how ArenaNet managed to turn the original design of the Vindicator around, after lots of feedback from the community, I still remain hopeful that with a few tweaks and changes this weapon could be in a solid spot.

First thing to note is that the weapon feels very clunky and unintuitive. I believe parts of it comes down to the auto attack being melee-ranged, while the rest of the kit is medium-ranged. Right now, Revenants already have access to 2 melee main hand weapons, and what they are lacking is a ranged option to pair with their other available offhand sets (Sword, Axe, Shield). This would probably be less of an issue, if the entire design of the weapon didn't revolve around me having to spam auto attacks to get any use of the other abilities.

This leads me to the next issue I've experienced, which is the whole stack building by auto attacking. I feel like the decision for this was made in a complete vacuum (e.g. by whacking Golems in a testing area). Having to land 6 auto attacks to enable the pull/teleport on Otherworldly Bond seems fine, when you're up against Golems who just stand still, but when you're running around in a WvW/PvP environment, you will face players who will actively dodge, block, blind and kite you around. This means that it's going to take a lot longer to build those stacks, than if you're up against PvE Mobs. The general combat flow for Revenants right now, is to sit in each legend for about 10 seconds, before swapping to the next legend to regain energy. Being forced to spend the vast majority of those 10 seconds chasing someone around, trying to hit them with auto attacks just doesn't add up to me, and is the last thing that I would consider fun gameplay. 

Additionally, I don't understand the idea of unlocking a teleport/pull-type ability, by making us run up to the enemy in melee range, and then charge it up. Shouldn't a pull be used to bring someone closer to us, instead of forcing us to chase them? Alternatively for the allied teleport, it also makes it very hard to use. I tether myself to an ally that I see in need of help...and then I am supposed to chase around the enemy, spamming auto attacks before I can even think of assisting my ally.

The easiest way to fix this from my perspective would be, to remove the auto-attack stacking all together, and put the build-up completely on Otherworldly Bond. The Skill already has an upkeep cost. Just make it so that, once activated, the skill will start building up stacks for as long as I upkeep it. Once it reaches its 6 stacks, it allows us to unlock the pull/teleport. This would free us up to do things other than just spam auto attacks, while also letting us support from a medium range, not being forced to constantly be in melee range. 

The next thing I would change is to turn the auto attack into a regular 900 range skill, that applies it's benefits in a radius around your target. More particularly a non-projectile version, how we see it on the Necro scepter or axe for example. With the above proposed changes, it would make the entire kit feel more streamlined. This might not sound as cool as a lightning sabre, but I'd much rather take a useful generic skill over a niche and unique one.

I also believe that the scepter would be a perfect option to add a legend-based boon/condition on top of the auto attacks, the way it is on the underwater trident. I think right now it is too limited in only being a support weapon, and I would like to see some play for Hybrid builds. If the barrier application for these kinds of builds is a concern, then the applied barrier numbers can always be tweaked/lowered for more offensive legends, while keeping them on more supportive/defensive ones. We already have the Hammer, which is only ever useful in WvW zerging, and practically sees no use outside of it. I'd hate to see another weapon go down the route of "this is the only situation it's viable" and collect dust for anyone else.


Additional notes: If the auto attack remains melee ranged, then please for the love of god change the animation. It's too flashy, and too rigid. It clips through the floor and just ... "feels off?". One option would be to add a similar effect which exists on the Guardian staff right now. Just turn it into a red mist cloud that expands forward, or as other's have pointed out in this thread already, change it to a whip-like effect.

The way one would probably tweak the barrier application would be to reduce the base value but increase the HP scaling, so you're more reliant on HP to be able to generate a significant amount.

[Phyb.6704]

22 hours ago, ViciousVyne.2935 said:

Disclaimer: This feedback is purely from a WvW and PvP perspective, more particularly from a roaming / small scale view.

I was hoping the scepter would take on a more supportive role, so I am happy to see the direction that ArenaNet is taking this weapon. However I feel like when designing it, they focused more on doing things the "unique" way, instead of going with what would actually make sense. Seeing how ArenaNet managed to turn the original design of the Vindicator around, after lots of feedback from the community, I still remain hopeful that with a few tweaks and changes this weapon could be in a solid spot.

First thing to note is that the weapon feels very clunky and unintuitive. I believe parts of it comes down to the auto attack being melee-ranged, while the rest of the kit is medium-ranged. Right now, Revenants already have access to 2 melee main hand weapons, and what they are lacking is a ranged option to pair with their other available offhand sets (Sword, Axe, Shield). This would probably be less of an issue, if the entire design of the weapon didn't revolve around me having to spam auto attacks to get any use of the other abilities.

This leads me to the next issue I've experienced, which is the whole stack building by auto attacking. I feel like the decision for this was made in a complete vacuum (e.g. by whacking Golems in a testing area). Having to land 6 auto attacks to enable the pull/teleport on Otherworldly Bond seems fine, when you're up against Golems who just stand still, but when you're running around in a WvW/PvP environment, you will face players who will actively dodge, block, blind and kite you around. This means that it's going to take a lot longer to build those stacks, than if you're up against PvE Mobs. The general combat flow for Revenants right now, is to sit in each legend for about 10 seconds, before swapping to the next legend to regain energy. Being forced to spend the vast majority of those 10 seconds chasing someone around, trying to hit them with auto attacks just doesn't add up to me, and is the last thing that I would consider fun gameplay. 

Additionally, I don't understand the idea of unlocking a teleport/pull-type ability, by making us run up to the enemy in melee range, and then charge it up. Shouldn't a pull be used to bring someone closer to us, instead of forcing us to chase them? Alternatively for the allied teleport, it also makes it very hard to use. I tether myself to an ally that I see in need of help...and then I am supposed to chase around the enemy, spamming auto attacks before I can even think of assisting my ally.

The easiest way to fix this from my perspective would be, to remove the auto-attack stacking all together, and put the build-up completely on Otherworldly Bond. The Skill already has an upkeep cost. Just make it so that, once activated, the skill will start building up stacks for as long as I upkeep it. Once it reaches its 6 stacks, it allows us to unlock the pull/teleport. This would free us up to do things other than just spam auto attacks, while also letting us support from a medium range, not being forced to constantly be in melee range. 

The next thing I would change is to turn the auto attack into a regular 900 range skill, that applies it's benefits in a radius around your target. More particularly a non-projectile version, how we see it on the Necro scepter or axe for example. With the above proposed changes, it would make the entire kit feel more streamlined. This might not sound as cool as a lightning sabre, but I'd much rather take a useful generic skill over a niche and unique one.

I also believe that the scepter would be a perfect option to add a legend-based boon/condition on top of the auto attacks, the way it is on the underwater trident. I think right now it is too limited in only being a support weapon, and I would like to see some play for Hybrid builds. If the barrier application for these kinds of builds is a concern, then the applied barrier numbers can always be tweaked/lowered for more offensive legends, while keeping them on more supportive/defensive ones. We already have the Hammer, which is only ever useful in WvW zerging, and practically sees no use outside of it. I'd hate to see another weapon go down the route of "this is the only situation it's viable" and collect dust for anyone else.


Additional notes: If the auto attack remains melee ranged, then please for the love of god change the animation. It's too flashy, and too rigid. It clips through the floor and just ... "feels off?". One option would be to add a similar effect which exists on the Guardian staff right now. Just turn it into a red mist cloud that expands forward, or as other's have pointed out in this thread already, change it to a whip-like effect.

I really like the idea for a legend based boon like trident. 

Screw the oversize showy sword effect.
Otherwordly bonds does not fucntion well and needs to be changed.
Give legend specific effect so its more useful across builds.
Ranged.... please. Only ranged is dps weapons. No ranged support weapon at all. We already have mele support and dps. Why are we not filling the gap on what we lack. No really good choice to couple with staff for support builds.

[Josif.2015]

Revenant using a scepter is a solid choice, however there are some skills that need to be nerfed. Here are my thoughts on the weapon:

Serene Slash, Acerbic Cut, Motivating Whirl (scepter 1): reduce the cast time on Serene Slash and Acerbic Cut from 0.5 to 0.25 seconds and change the animation so it properly matches the attack range.
Blossoming Aura (scepter 2): reduce the weakness duration from 4 to 2 seconds in PvP/WvW and reduce the range from 900 to 300 because this skill becomes stronger only from autoattacks at 300 range.
Otherwordly Attraction (scepter 3): the upkeep cost is too low and you can just keep scepter 3 active on an enemy, use scepter 2 with autoattacks and the enemy is permanently weakened, crippled and slowed. Increase the upkeep cost and reduce the duration on crippled from 2.75 seconds to 1.5 seconds and slowed from 1.25 to 0.50 seconds.

[Aeolus.3615]

On 12/5/2023 at 4:49 PM, arazoth.7290 said:

A red blackish mist whip. Sort of like this 

?  😁

 

Btw about tether yea, it should generate each second a stack while it is applied. Just to make reliable in situations like you summed up indeed. 

But if auto attacks stays 300 range, auto attacks should fasten tether stacks up too if they hit the target. 

1 last thing if tether is applied on enemy has full stacks for consume pull effect ==> give it an aoe attack on impact to increase scepter overal damage.

( Also because tether consume skill has less value on enemies compared to allies useage which teleports and gives barrier)

Since Anet reuses stuff  and by alot they could resuse the lighint whip animation from ele

[air.6359]

Please make an option for a 900 range auto attack. The fact 2 + 3 are ranged but the auto is only 300 makes it feel clunky and unnatural. I don't like it the way it is currently.

[arazoth.7290]

On 12/7/2023 at 12:40 AM, air.6359 said:

Please make an option for a 900 range auto attack. The fact 2 + 3 are ranged but the auto is only 300 makes it feel clunky and unnatural. I don't like it the way it is currently.

900 range would help, but it's just a band aid on the real problem that makes scepter feels cluncky. 

•Scepter biggest problem:

- Tether should auto generate 1 stack/second when applied to the target.  Auto attacks can still fasten up the progress.

- Tether consume should have aoe damage too when you pull.

The enemy you try to pull gets damaged around himself. (I said in previous post, damage on pull impact. But in pve you can't always let it hit reliable on impact).

 

• Scepter lesser problems:

- Auto attack: Barrier shouldn't be granted only 3rd chain sequence. Spread the barrier numbers on 3 chain auto attacks, evenly. Example if 3rd chain hit now gives 1k barrier, it should on each auto give 333,33... instead.

1st auto chain attack => x barrier + x damage

2nd auto chain attack => x barrier + x damage + x might

3rd auto chain attack => x barrier + x damage + x might + combo blast finisher. And hits 5 targets instead.

- 2nd skill Blossoming Aura: 

-10 energy cost => 5 energy cost

-Increase baseline pulsing damage.

-Increase baseline final hit.

-The final hit should be 5 target aoe and combo blast finisher.

- 3rd skill Outwordly Bond (tether):

To make this all sync together. 

-Tether upkeep on enemy: around you and target a fire combo field is active as long upkeep is there.

-Tether upkeep on ally: Around you and target a light combo field is active as long upkeep is there.

 

 

Obviously I think most would be happy if all these were applied to make it really work well together. But it would already be a BIG DEAL if the major problem was fixed like suggested.

Edited December 8, 2023 by arazoth.7290

[Bish.8627]

On 12/5/2023 at 1:55 PM, ViciousVyne.2935 said:

Disclaimer: This feedback is purely from a WvW and PvP perspective, more particularly from a roaming / small scale view.

I was hoping the scepter would take on a more supportive role, so I am happy to see the direction that ArenaNet is taking this weapon. However I feel like when designing it, they focused more on doing things the "unique" way, instead of going with what would actually make sense. Seeing how ArenaNet managed to turn the original design of the Vindicator around, after lots of feedback from the community, I still remain hopeful that with a few tweaks and changes this weapon could be in a solid spot.

First thing to note is that the weapon feels very clunky and unintuitive. I believe parts of it comes down to the auto attack being melee-ranged, while the rest of the kit is medium-ranged. Right now, Revenants already have access to 2 melee main hand weapons, and what they are lacking is a ranged option to pair with their other available offhand sets (Sword, Axe, Shield). This would probably be less of an issue, if the entire design of the weapon didn't revolve around me having to spam auto attacks to get any use of the other abilities.

This leads me to the next issue I've experienced, which is the whole stack building by auto attacking. I feel like the decision for this was made in a complete vacuum (e.g. by whacking Golems in a testing area). Having to land 6 auto attacks to enable the pull/teleport on Otherworldly Bond seems fine, when you're up against Golems who just stand still, but when you're running around in a WvW/PvP environment, you will face players who will actively dodge, block, blind and kite you around. This means that it's going to take a lot longer to build those stacks, than if you're up against PvE Mobs. The general combat flow for Revenants right now, is to sit in each legend for about 10 seconds, before swapping to the next legend to regain energy. Being forced to spend the vast majority of those 10 seconds chasing someone around, trying to hit them with auto attacks just doesn't add up to me, and is the last thing that I would consider fun gameplay. 

Additionally, I don't understand the idea of unlocking a teleport/pull-type ability, by making us run up to the enemy in melee range, and then charge it up. Shouldn't a pull be used to bring someone closer to us, instead of forcing us to chase them? Alternatively for the allied teleport, it also makes it very hard to use. I tether myself to an ally that I see in need of help...and then I am supposed to chase around the enemy, spamming auto attacks before I can even think of assisting my ally.

The easiest way to fix this from my perspective would be, to remove the auto-attack stacking all together, and put the build-up completely on Otherworldly Bond. The Skill already has an upkeep cost. Just make it so that, once activated, the skill will start building up stacks for as long as I upkeep it. Once it reaches its 6 stacks, it allows us to unlock the pull/teleport. This would free us up to do things other than just spam auto attacks, while also letting us support from a medium range, not being forced to constantly be in melee range. 

The next thing I would change is to turn the auto attack into a regular 900 range skill, that applies it's benefits in a radius around your target. More particularly a non-projectile version, how we see it on the Necro scepter or axe for example. With the above proposed changes, it would make the entire kit feel more streamlined. This might not sound as cool as a lightning sabre, but I'd much rather take a useful generic skill over a niche and unique one.

I also believe that the scepter would be a perfect option to add a legend-based boon/condition on top of the auto attacks, the way it is on the underwater trident. I think right now it is too limited in only being a support weapon, and I would like to see some play for Hybrid builds. If the barrier application for these kinds of builds is a concern, then the applied barrier numbers can always be tweaked/lowered for more offensive legends, while keeping them on more supportive/defensive ones. We already have the Hammer, which is only ever useful in WvW zerging, and practically sees no use outside of it. I'd hate to see another weapon go down the route of "this is the only situation it's viable" and collect dust for anyone else.


Additional notes: If the auto attack remains melee ranged, then please for the love of god change the animation. It's too flashy, and too rigid. It clips through the floor and just ... "feels off?". One option would be to add a similar effect which exists on the Guardian staff right now. Just turn it into a red mist cloud that expands forward, or as other's have pointed out in this thread already, change it to a whip-like effect.

I posted earlier similar. My other take was tether should determine the weapons ability so tethered to your allies you can auto attack allies for barrier and boons, to an enemy you do damage and conditions etc. Kinda like vindicator. But I really like the idea of tied to legend abilities. I imagine if stacks built up on tether you could have skill 2 do a per hit (I think on allies too like druid staff) boon or damage depending on legend, like skill 2 on dwarf gives stab per hit on ally, assassin gives quickess per enemy hit or something, not absolutely those but I like the idea.

This was a great take though, pretty much my feeling too, everyone in this thread seems to be smacking golems, real use especially in WvW I couldnt justify it over staff/staff swapping losing the cleanse, CC and blocks, not to mention the heal on 2 did more for me than the barrier on scepter because I could never get the full amount with blind, block and immune spam.