Can you add something on this class that doesn't require extended mental gymnastics?

[Arheundel.6451]

Rather than forcing people to go through complex golem benchmark rotations while you have 2-3 players under the effect of quickness on you...... add something simple with immediate effect... as you do for every other class in this game! 

Having 4 x elements to choose from at any given time, should already give enough of a complexity level....still, this community went and embraced weaver....a complex design on top of a complex design...but that was not enough for you....so you added catalyst and the redundant orb mechanic .....that still was not enough...so now you add a weapon set..slow to start with...then forces the player to chose between dozen of combinations seemingly for the same effect just different VFX with alternative color ...and not content with that, you add another orb like mechanic.....like why at this point CMC why don't you go and add Street Fighter level combos to elementalist?

1. left-left-down-jump-right-down-F2-down-left-down-F3 to fire a lighting ball.....
2. up-up-down-down-right-left-jump for fireball
3. completed 1 and 2 within 5s to get fire/lightning ball....

You may as well go and do it at this point!

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Well, they did buff Scepter with greater damage and tracking Dragon's Tooth.  Personally I've found Power Weaver to be conceptually simple, since for every attunement swap it is Sword 3 - > left to right weapon skills, repeated over and over again.  Aside from that, Fire Tempest is basically "mash buttons off cooldown for big burns," and it can even run a grieving build for immediate upfront damage.  

[Serephen.3420]

I'm kinda sad pistol is only worth using on weaver at the moment. Was really hoping for an option to run quick cata with a bit of range flexibility but it's unlikely you could upkeep ee with it due to lack of finishers and cc options. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

They already made all of the easiest specs perform better than the specs that require more complexity.  What more do you want? 

Not that I'm defending pistol.  It looks like garbage so far.

[Sweetbread.3678]

On 12/1/2023 at 9:59 PM, Arheundel.6451 said:

 add something simple with immediate effect... as you do for every other class in this game! 

Pistol sucks, but that aside have you considered that maybe playing the single actually complex class in the game is not a good choice for you? Ele doesn't need to be dumbed down when there's literally at least 7 other classes with simple playstyles out there already catering to your needs.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

4 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

Pistol sucks, but that aside have you considered that maybe playing the single actually complex class in the game is not a good choice for you? Ele doesn't need to be dumbed down when there's literally at least 7 other classes with simple playstyles out there already catering to your needs.

True, everything else needs to be either nerfed to the ground or Ele massively buffed. Problem here isn't complexity, but the reward for it. There are classes that does 2~10x more stuff than Ele with 10x less effort needed. Ele gets more complex stuff to be "on-pair" with something that can be just botted with different class.

[Artemis.8034]

I think they should drop the weapons on ele and engi and let us weapon swap for crying out loud! Look at all that rev gets and they are allowed to swap weapons, its time to let us do so

[Sweetbread.3678]

On 12/3/2023 at 10:13 AM, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

True, everything else needs to be either nerfed to the ground or Ele massively buffed. Problem here isn't complexity, but the reward for it. There are classes that does 2~10x more stuff than Ele with 10x less effort needed. Ele gets more complex stuff to be "on-pair" with something that can be just botted with different class.

Yeah I don't know how you fix that in a game like this where the combat and class design is so overly simplified and inconsistent. Like reward should be tied to effort and execution, but you also can't end up in a situation where Ele is doing 5 times the dps because its working 5 times as hard or else none of the more lower-intensity specs would ever be considered even remotely viable. Ele still benches consistently near the top, but I'd say ~43.5k dps bench is not nearly enough of a difference to make up for having a complex melee rotation that's constantly interrupted by phases and mechanics when something like condi Specter does ~41k while ranged and basically just spamming 3 80% of the time.

Imo the main issue (aside from Anet seeming to only take bench dps into account) is that the boon and condition systems are way too binary and that really shrinks the design space available for classes. Most boons and debuffs don't scale at all and once you hit 25 on Might, the single one that does scale, bringing any more is essentially pointless. This creates a binary situation where the only measure for something's performance is either its quick/alac upkeep time if support or its dps if anything else; there's no room for specs with a secondary focus on buffing, debuffing, or healing to feel impactful, you're either a full boonbot or a full dps with nothing in between. For a high-skill ceiling, supporty, jack of all trades class to feel properly rewarding then there has to be space for its secondary benefits to be worthwhile, but right now there isn't. Like Ele used to great because it was hard to actually cap Might to 25 even in a group setting; Ele could afford to work multiple times harder while having just comparable (or even lower) dps than other specs because it always had worthwhile baked in utility through its secondary benefits like boon generation and healing. Nowadays due to role creep and class homogenization pretty much every support can pump out 25 group might np (along with a lot of dps specs being able to upkeep it on themselves), so the only way to reward extra effort is through extra dps and that can never be at an actual 1:1 rate because due to the Grand Canyon sized skill gaps between the classes you'd end up with a situation where stuff like Cata and Holo are doing astronomically absurd levels of damage compared to most everything else. 

[nuggetjr.6571]

If they took on the design philosophy that difficulty translates to higher damage potential, it wouldn't need to scale linearly. If say ele is 2x harder, if it just did 10% more damage, many people would be happy to play it. However, I don't think all ele specs are really hard. As a primarily pvper, imo, Weaver slow access to offhand skills should be rewarded a lot more than it currently is. A tempest in most cases seems a lot simpler and slow to play and probably shouldn't have that potential of a weaver. 

 

A good start would be getting comment from balance team on the philosophy around difficulty and feasibility to execute a build and balance intent based on that.

Also, if they intend to try to move the other way and make harder professions easier to execute (I hope they don't...).

Edited December 5, 2023 by nuggetjr.6571

[Emberheart.8426]

6 hours ago, nuggetjr.6571 said:

If they took on the design philosophy that difficulty translates to higher damage potential, it wouldn't need to scale linearly. If say ele is 2x harder, if it just did 10% more damage, many people would be happy to play it. However, I don't think all ele specs are really hard. As a primarily pvper, imo, Weaver slow access to offhand skills should be rewarded a lot more than it currently is. A tempest in most cases seems a lot simpler and slow to play and probably shouldn't have that potential of a weaver. 

 

A good start would be getting comment from balance team on the philosophy around difficulty and feasibility to execute a build and balance intent based on that.

Also, if they intend to try to move the other way and make harder professions easier to execute (I hope they don't...).

It should also be noted that tempest carries a lot of risk and opportunity cost when overloading. That should be taken into account as well. The main reason why elementalist should be more rewarding than it is now is actually risk vs reward rather than something like APM. Ele simply has a lot of aspects to it that are either risky or have the potential for huge failure.

[Flowki.7194]

23 hours ago, nuggetjr.6571 said:

If they took on the design philosophy that difficulty translates to higher damage potential, it wouldn't need to scale linearly. If say ele is 2x harder, if it just did 10% more damage, many people would be happy to play it. However, I don't think all ele specs are really hard. As a primarily pvper, imo, Weaver slow access to offhand skills should be rewarded a lot more than it currently is. A tempest in most cases seems a lot simpler and slow to play and probably shouldn't have that potential of a weaver. 

 

A good start would be getting comment from balance team on the philosophy around difficulty and feasibility to execute a build and balance intent based on that.

Also, if they intend to try to move the other way and make harder professions easier to execute (I hope they don't...).

Weaver is not reactive enough, if you need X off hand for a dynamic changing group fight, you can't swap to it instantly. That simply makes it unreliable and outright frustrating to play, which isnt quite the same thing as difficulty. In my opinion you could reduce its damage by X%, but give it 2 second attunement swaps so its actually reactive enough to keep up with dynamic group fights. When ever I see a weaver go in a group fight, they melt if attacked. The spec cannot handle pressure unless you massively sacrificing dps, but their are far better classes that can tank and dps more than weaver in that role, while also far more reliable/easier to play.

 

I was quite dissapointed with weaver tbh, it was the spec I thought I would enjoy most, but its actually the slowest, and most clunky spec in the game. Well, at least from what I've played.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Weaver is not reactive enough, if you need X off hand for a dynamic changing group fight, you can't swap to it instantly. That simply makes it unreliable and outright frustrating to play, which isnt quite the same thing as difficulty. In my opinion you could reduce its damage by X%, but give it 2 second attunement swaps so its actually reactive enough to keep up with dynamic group fights. When ever I see a weaver go in a group fight, they melt if attacked. The spec cannot handle pressure unless you massively sacrificing dps, but their are far better classes that can tank and dps more than weaver in that role, while also far more reliable/easier to play.

 

I was quite dissapointed with weaver tbh, it was the spec I thought I would enjoy most, but its actually the slowest, and most clunky spec in the game. Well, at least from what I've played.

They actually built the solution right into it with the Unravel skill.  The problem is you shouldn't have to waste a utility slot to access it.  It should just be an F5.

[Emberheart.8426]

4 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

They actually built the solution right into it with the Unravel skill.  The problem is you shouldn't have to waste a utility slot to access it.  It should just be an F5.

An f5 isn't needed. Just make reattuning into a single element not subject to the global attunement cooldown. You are still slowing down your overall rotation with that a bit because a global cooldown would be reapplied anyway so it probably wouldn't be OP.

[Flowki.7194]

10 hours ago, Emberheart.8426 said:

An f5 isn't needed. Just make reattuning into a single element not subject to the global attunement cooldown. You are still slowing down your overall rotation with that a bit because a global cooldown would be reapplied anyway so it probably wouldn't be OP.

Yeah I mean something like that wouldnt hurt, but obviously faster swaps = more spike burst so its unlikely to be balanced unless overall dmg on weaver is reduced. But thats fine, its just relitive. I'd play weaver a lot more if I could join a group fight and not melt/flee for my life becuase X class just joined, and I just stepped out of Y attunement that was needed to deal with X, its so frustrating. 

[Nephalem.8921]

On 12/2/2023 at 5:30 PM, Serephen.3420 said:

I'm kinda sad pistol is only worth using on weaver at the moment. Was really hoping for an option to run quick cata with a bit of range flexibility but it's unlikely you could upkeep ee with it due to lack of finishers and cc options. 

Pistol tempest benches higher than weaver.

[Squirrell.1493]

Problem of the benches is the golem itself.

If the golem was moving and use reflect from time to time, I think the result will be different

[Axelteas.7192]

On 12/2/2023 at 6:42 PM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

They already made all of the easiest specs perform better than the specs that require more complexity.  What more do you want? 

Not that I'm defending pistol.  It looks like garbage so far.

Tell me which is the easy spec for elementalist

Edited December 8, 2023 by Axelteas.7192

[CafPow.1542]

17 minutes ago, Axelteas.7192 said:

Tell me which is the easy spec for elementalist

Not Weaver.

[Gendalfs.7521]

1 hour ago, Axelteas.7192 said:

Tell me which is the easy spec for elementalist

Celestial Tempest. Camp fire and enjoy.

[Jzaku.9765]

1 hour ago, Axelteas.7192 said:

Tell me which is the easy spec for elementalist

It's literally Fire Wizard all Fire all day for 40k DPS. You can't get easier than this. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, Axelteas.7192 said:

Tell me which is the easy spec for elementalist

Power sword weaver, condi scepter anything.

[Junkpile.7439]

Core scepter dagger easy build