Reaper DPS needs to be toned down

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

nerf chill buff ele

[Vinny.7260]

11 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

nerf chill buff ele

nerf ele buff chill

[Marxx.5021]

sPvP is so dead. Why asking for any nerfs at this point. You are like seven years late.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

52 minutes ago, Marxx.5021 said:

sPvP is so dead. Why asking for any nerfs at this point. You are like seven years late.

Except that they actually do a balance patch every 2 months.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

2 hours ago, Vinny.7260 said:

nerf ele buff chill

nerf buff chill ele

[Marxx.5021]

2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Except that they actually do a balance patch every 2 months.

And does it help to keep sPvP alive? It does not really. It looks more like a formal thing because the game is promoted to have not just PvE. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, Marxx.5021 said:

And does it help to keep sPvP alive? It does not really. It looks more like a formal thing because the game is promoted to have not just PvE. 

I would wager balancing starts with sPvP and moves to the other modes.  From 5-man sPvP to 5-man instanced content like fractals, up to squad based content like Raids and WvW.  Easiest way to do it as you start developing the dynamic and then can formalize the PvE stuff as that's all fixed rotations.  

For reaper though, I said it earlier but for me it's just that chill is a lot like blind and super strong.  

All the top 10 + alts in NA don't run reaper, they run holo/scrapper atm.  Had an entire team decimate mine 50-500 just running deadeye + two scrappers and coordinating bursts. 

In fact, that very playstyle destroys reaper--I can do it to a lot of reapers on burst SLB even after all the nerfs.  Five hits max, two/three to take out shroud and usually 2 to kill them from full HP; takes some skill and a lot of patience to pull off though.  

[Stalima.5490]

On 12/4/2023 at 7:05 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

^ Thread title.

There, I said it. Someone needed to do it.

remove "reaper" and make it a general statement and then it will be more correct

[Waffles.5632]

On 12/5/2023 at 10:22 AM, Sahne.6950 said:

So you are Gold? 

https://postimg.cc/9wyR9M0J

This is your average plat+ solo queue experience. I imagine Trevor's or anyone else that's 1500+ would look similar.

I'm rank #27 atm.

If I get unlucky and lose 4 or 5 in a row then I can see myself getting sent straight down to gold 3.

The most extreme I've ever gotten was a -26 loss followed by a +6 win. I'm just spitting facts so don't hate the messenger. This has been plat+ experience for years now. If you know you know.

Here is the math:

Total Matches Won: 6

Total Matches Lost: 4

Total Points Lost: -69

Total Points Gained: +48

End Result: -21 points for today's pvp even though I won more than I lost.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Waffles.5632

[Javonovich.5280]

I'd love to know what power and condi builds people are running with Reaper to make them so oppressive.

I've dueled Dr. Meta many times in the Yolo Arena on mesmer. They're an excellent duelist, but I've never felt like the class was overperforming. In fact, unlike some classes that can easily facetank you and have a nice "uh oh" button (like a guard) while still doing tons of damage, Reaper requires excellent positioning and some real finesse, otherwise you're just a sitting a duck. I don't find it a faceroll class at all.

[Flowki.7194]

On 12/4/2023 at 7:23 PM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

IMO, it's overabundance of chill + fast regen shroud/double HP bar--outside of that seems balanced.  Hard to burst them down too when second bar is down because running glassier stats typically gets you +1 or die trying as they can pelt with pistol too now in order to stall.

I've genuinely lost count now how many necros have ate all my CC, face tanked 30-40k dmg, and not died. Warrior, gaurdian and virt are pretty much the same, bloated with mechanics that mitigate poor dodging. Some ranger builds are at that level too, spam utility for immunes, then spam weapon skill for dmg, has a condi cata feel to it...

[Gotejjeken.1267]

4 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said:

https://postimg.cc/9wyR9M0J

This is your average plat+ solo queue experience. I imagine Trevor's or anyone else that's 1500+ would look similar.

I'm rank #27 atm.

If I get unlucky and lose 4 or 5 in a row then I can see myself getting sent straight down to gold 3.

The most extreme I've ever gotten was a -26 loss followed by a +6 win. I'm just spitting facts so don't hate the messenger. This has been plat+ experience for years now. If you know you know.

Here is the math:

Total Matches Won: 6

Total Matches Lost: 4

Total Points Lost: -69

Total Points Gained: +48

End Result: -21 points for today's pvp even though I won more than I lost.

Yeah, it's crazy, with how low the population is, Gold 3 might as well be the same division as Plat 1 now.  

Swings are real though--started season myself at 1480, lost legit 10 in a row, down to 1240, now back up to 1350 X_X.  All within 100 games lol.  

[KrHome.1920]

What?

Pistol/staff reaper is unbalanced in PvP? Interesting. Ran into that build recently in WvW and was wondering why anyone would play this trash. So PvP is where it comes from.

Guess we are talking about this: https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Blood_Condi_Reaper

Sorry but this has extremely low sustain. Just 2v1 focus it and it's dead in 5 seconds. No soul reaping and no toughness => 🤣

Edited December 7, 2023 by KrHome.1920

[Flowki.7194]

6 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

"Just 2v1 focus it"

If the necro is within his team, (hi guardian block spam/res) like any decent necro, it covers its main weakness, your argument is pretty much redundent. At that poit, do you attack the necro, and let the chrono free cast? You can change the goal post and make this about top level play, but thats also a redundant argument for 90% of us, who are in an elo where necros make up 30% of the playerbase (scourge+gaurd+another itteration of necro, not uncommon). It use use to be more than that, closer to 40-50% necros, but there are now multiple other specs that are just as forgiving in group fights, while doing good damage.

 

Just gets boring hearing people go on about how easy necro is to counter. Same thing as "just dodge DH", as if that justifys the spec doing rediculous damage if you miss a dodge, yet most specs can't return rediculous damage to the DH, who also failed his dodge. Effort/reward, risk/punishment, ratios are WAY off across specs.

 

And what a kittening suprise, first game tonight, 2 necros and a gaurdian.. face tanking all game. Coincidence right?

Edited December 7, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Flowki.7194]

Every game so far: Support+necros, face tanking all game 😜

 

Please fix Anet. Its kitten.

[Swagg.9236]

Here's the issue:  once again GW2's gameplay breaks down into a shallow flow-chart devoid of emergent gameplay and skill expression.

• So, what do you do when facing a reaper?  The correct answer is to never directly engage the reaper.  Blow it up with protracted pressure from maximum range where only marks can really reach (likely with at least one easy teleport in the tank to respace), or you can negate timing/positioning with teleports and then literally evade for 5 seconds straight while attacking (a significant amount of classes do this now).
• The thing is, YES, fighting a reaper """correctly""" is TECHNICALLY a learning curve, but it's about as steep as a wheelchair ramp, and the ability to walk up it downright negates an entire class.
• Nobody wins here.  Is reaper overtuned?  Yes, because anyone who actually goes to blows with it where blows are expected to occur will simply die like a dog to a bunch of nonsense that has no real animation tells, no sensible flow of effects (it's just a cluttered damage cloud that repeatedly blinds and stuns you), and no real way to interact with it or re-position UNLESS you play certain builds/classes.  OK, so the correct answer is "play the better classes;" but does that really elevate any sort of skill ceiling?  No.  It's a binary interaction.  Roll a rev, practice for a few hours, and you'll smoke every reaper you see unless you're maybe playing while sloshed or high out of your mind.  Did you git gud?  Heck no, you're using a class that cheats more than reaper lmao.  The skill ceiling to this game is so low that everyone is bent over at the hips.  Build Wars™, babyyy.

Reaper is a gatekeeper class.  People--regardless of skill level--who play lesser builds die to it (or at the very least, will not kill the reaper in any sort of expedient fashion) because they can't interact with it, however, anyone who plays builds that just teleport and/or evade for 10 seconds straight while bursting (they're everywhere) will just generally kill the reaper by dancing in and out of the reaper's effective range during their locked-in, ten-second weapon and form cooldowns.  Does reaper need to lose damage?  Yes it does.  The rest of the game also should've stopped adding passive evades and blocks to literally every burst window.

[magickthief.6492]

1 hour ago, Swagg.9236 said:

Here's the issue:  once again GW2's gameplay breaks down into a shallow flow-chart devoid of emergent gameplay and skill expression.

• So, what do you do when facing a reaper?  The correct answer is to never directly engage the reaper.  Blow it up with protracted pressure from maximum range where only marks can really reach (likely with at least one easy teleport in the tank to respace), or you can negate timing/positioning with teleports and then literally evade for 5 seconds straight while attacking (a significant amount of classes do this now).
• The thing is, YES, fighting a reaper """correctly""" is TECHNICALLY a learning curve, but it's about as steep as a wheelchair ramp, and the ability to walk up it downright negates an entire class.
• Nobody wins here.  Is reaper overtuned?  Yes, because anyone who actually goes to blows with it where blows are expected to occur will simply die like a dog to a bunch of nonsense that has no real animation tells, no sensible flow of effects (it's just a cluttered damage cloud that repeatedly blinds and stuns you), and no real way to interact with it or re-position UNLESS you play certain builds/classes.  OK, so the correct answer is "play the better classes;" but does that really elevate any sort of skill ceiling?  No.  It's a binary interaction.  Roll a rev, practice for a few hours, and you'll smoke every reaper you see unless you're maybe playing while sloshed or high out of your mind.  Did you git gud?  Heck no, you're using a class that cheats more than reaper lmao.  The skill ceiling to this game is so low that everyone is bent over at the hips.  Build Wars™, babyyy.

Reaper is a gatekeeper class.  People--regardless of skill level--who play lesser builds die to it (or at the very least, will not kill the reaper in any sort of expedient fashion) because they can't interact with it, however, anyone who plays builds that just teleport and/or evade for 10 seconds straight while bursting (they're everywhere) will just generally kill the reaper by dancing in and out of the reaper's effective range during their locked-in, ten-second weapon and form cooldowns.  Does reaper need to lose damage?  Yes it does.  The rest of the game also should've stopped adding passive evades and blocks to literally every burst window.

So, if reaper is to stay as it is, you should be forever silent on those "builds that just teleport and/or evade for 10 seconds straight while bursting". Those don't actually exist, but if they did, you stay silent.

[Flowki.7194]

12 hours ago, Swagg.9236 said:

Here's the issue:  once again GW2's gameplay breaks down into a shallow flow-chart devoid of emergent gameplay and skill expression.

• So, what do you do when facing a reaper?  The correct answer is to never directly engage the reaper.  Blow it up with protracted pressure from maximum range where only marks can really reach (likely with at least one easy teleport in the tank to respace), or you can negate timing/positioning with teleports and then literally evade for 5 seconds straight while attacking (a significant amount of classes do this now).
• The thing is, YES, fighting a reaper """correctly""" is TECHNICALLY a learning curve, but it's about as steep as a wheelchair ramp, and the ability to walk up it downright negates an entire class.
• Nobody wins here.  Is reaper overtuned?  Yes, because anyone who actually goes to blows with it where blows are expected to occur will simply die like a dog to a bunch of nonsense that has no real animation tells, no sensible flow of effects (it's just a cluttered damage cloud that repeatedly blinds and stuns you), and no real way to interact with it or re-position UNLESS you play certain builds/classes.  OK, so the correct answer is "play the better classes;" but does that really elevate any sort of skill ceiling?  No.  It's a binary interaction.  Roll a rev, practice for a few hours, and you'll smoke every reaper you see unless you're maybe playing while sloshed or high out of your mind.  Did you git gud?  Heck no, you're using a class that cheats more than reaper lmao.  The skill ceiling to this game is so low that everyone is bent over at the hips.  Build Wars™, babyyy.

Reaper is a gatekeeper class.  People--regardless of skill level--who play lesser builds die to it (or at the very least, will not kill the reaper in any sort of expedient fashion) because they can't interact with it, however, anyone who plays builds that just teleport and/or evade for 10 seconds straight while bursting (they're everywhere) will just generally kill the reaper by dancing in and out of the reaper's effective range during their locked-in, ten-second weapon and form cooldowns.  Does reaper need to lose damage?  Yes it does.  The rest of the game also should've stopped adding passive evades and blocks to literally every burst window.

Yeah SB is still the biggest offender of low skill/low risk jumps atm. Stealth, track damage+auto gap closers, evade damage +instant stability/0 0 0 0. Once in range, you dont even need to touch movement keys for 95% of the jump.. the track damage/evade+gap closers does all the work. At least scrapper had to fking aim.  

Edited December 9, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

38 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Yeah SB is still the biggest offender of low skill/low risk jumps atm. Stealth, track damage+auto gap closers, evade damage +instant stability/0 0 0 0. Once in range, you dont even need to touch movement keys for 95% of the jump.. the track damage/evade+gap closers does all the work. At least scrapper had to fking aim.

You ever actually log into those builds and try it for yourself?

I think if you did, your description of those builds would change to: "High risk/medium reward"

They are not so easy to play.

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

You ever actually log into those builds and try it for yourself?

I think if you did, your description of those builds would change to: "High risk/medium reward"

They are not so easy to play.

I played ele and rev for around 3.5k games, SB didn't take long at all to understand and top damage with, its easier than those, infact I'd put it on par with SPB ability wise. I stopped playing the meta SB after getting rediculous 16k maul crit for no effort at all. When I play it now, its an LB / horn virsion with smoke/bird. 2x barrage is like 20k point damage @1500units, or a lengthy area denial, ontop of forced auto/2 shots upto 1700.. its a dream compared to ele/rev 900 cap, where you are in range of nion all specs, chrono, LB rangers, zerker etc. If somebody jumps me, Im standing on a trap, have smoke assault, double hunters call, evade attack, daze, swap back to LB, double CC on 4, still have bird or smoke to hide/kite, along with utility of instant stability, protection, a decent clense, and an AOE root+0 physical. Thats some decent fking bad backups for a spec that can pump out 30k AOE/pierce damage from 1300-1500+, risk free.

 

Maybe you need to try rev or cata, to see what goes into mitigating and doing damage. The only combo you need to think about is smoke, and nion all of SB damage is track-auto target.. unlike a lot of ele/rev, which opens up room for mechanical error. Power untamed was the hardest spec, you needed to swap/unmerge a lot more in order to be effective, which meant you had to manedge CD's a lot more cautiously. I would have kept playing power untamed, but it isn't worth the extra effort when an average SB can smoke you just from spamming all the track/auto lock abilitys.

 

For me, SB is just willbender. Low entry bar, front loaded, puts all the pressure onto the other player with minimal effort from the SB.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Frequency.6407]

I can already picture the next 'Please buff ranger thread' titled 'Rangers desperately need a buff to their downstate, Please buff anet'.

[Kuma.1503]

From what I've seen of Necro sword. Power Reaper might be eating good next update. They finally have a good ranged weapon to swap into besides axe and some extra mobility to boot. 

[Swagg.9236]

21 hours ago, magickthief.6492 said:

So, if reaper is to stay as it is, you should be forever silent on those "builds that just teleport and/or evade for 10 seconds straight while bursting". Those don't actually exist, but if they did, you stay silent.

I have no idea what you're really getting at here.  Bottom line up front:  Thief is the core sin of GW2's low skill ceiling due to how it broke the limitations of other classes with unbridled saturation of teleports and freebie risk mitigation enabled by a flavor-over-function "design" concept and the initiative system.  Instead of addressing this, a shortsighted anet just made more thieves:

Rev is a better/easier thief.  Soulbeast is the ranger's thief.  WB is the guardian's thief.  Mesmer eventually became pink thief after their cooldowns shrunk and they got more options to layer incoming effect mitigation over outing burst windows.  Engineer doesn't necessarily spam teleporting damage, but the excessive superspeed and long block windows layered over damage serves the same purpose; both holo and scrapper are thief.  Warrior also has two thieves with SB and, to a lesser degree, BS (but the latter also just recovers health quickly without any risky inputs or interactive game elements more than it outright negates incoming damage).

These classes often eat reaper (or never die to it) because reaper has to SOMEWHAT commit to ranged or melee damage within 10s cooldown windows (form or weapons), and it can't teleport freely to catch up if people blink out of range.  This means that all of the thief derivatives have huge opportunity windows during which they can attack mostly with impunity while the reaper cannot interact.  Does this mean that reaper's damage ISN'T overtuned?  Those two elements aren't mutually inclusive:  reaper damage is stupid high and busted; classes that eat reaper's lunch just invalidate risk, effort, timing and positioning altogether without trying because they're all mostly just copies of each other.

GW2 is jacked up because, yes, those builds exist because every class has one; they aren't interesting to interact with; the player base doesn't want risk; and now the vestiges of the original "attrition class" is the gatekeeper between "new, generic, bland trash with zero effort" and "weird attempts at experimentation and iteration in an extremely shallow and solved PvP mini game."

 

 

[magickthief.6492]

1 hour ago, Swagg.9236 said:

I have no idea what you're really getting at here.  Bottom line up front:  Thief is the core sin of GW2's low skill ceiling due to how it broke the limitations of other classes with unbridled saturation of teleports and freebie risk mitigation enabled by a flavor-over-function "design" concept and the initiative system.  Instead of addressing this, a shortsighted anet just made more thieves:

Rev is a better/easier thief.  Soulbeast is the ranger's thief.  WB is the guardian's thief.  Mesmer eventually became pink thief after their cooldowns shrunk and they got more options to layer incoming effect mitigation over outing burst windows.  Engineer doesn't necessarily spam teleporting damage, but the excessive superspeed and long block windows layered over damage serves the same purpose; both holo and scrapper are thief.  Warrior also has two thieves with SB and, to a lesser degree, BS (but the latter also just recovers health quickly without any risky inputs or interactive game elements more than it outright negates incoming damage).

These classes often eat reaper (or never die to it) because reaper has to SOMEWHAT commit to ranged or melee damage within 10s cooldown windows (form or weapons), and it can't teleport freely to catch up if people blink out of range.  This means that all of the thief derivatives have huge opportunity windows during which they can attack mostly with impunity while the reaper cannot interact.  Does this mean that reaper's damage ISN'T overtuned?  Those two elements aren't mutually inclusive:  reaper damage is stupid high and busted; classes that eat reaper's lunch just invalidate risk, effort, timing and positioning altogether without trying because they're all mostly just copies of each other.

GW2 is jacked up because, yes, those builds exist because every class has one; they aren't interesting to interact with; the player base doesn't want risk; and now the vestiges of the original "attrition class" is the gatekeeper between "new, generic, bland trash with zero effort" and "weird attempts at experimentation and iteration in an extremely shallow and solved PvP mini game."

 

 

Harbinger is Necro's thief, just stop. You love necro, but you hate having to use your brain.

[Swagg.9236]

9 hours ago, magickthief.6492 said:

Harbinger is Necro's thief, just stop. You love necro, but you hate having to use your brain.

Ok, yeah, but we're talking about reaper as the gatekeeper between people who don't actually have to use their brain and people who want to try to do something different (or new players who have to deal with GW2 being a trash fire), bro I don't even play necro lmao.  Why would you be so committed to preserving a status quo if it didn't benefit your easy mode minigame?