I have found this interesting topic on Reddit...I wonder what is GW2 staying power for you and if it's enough?

[Splat.7981]

Hello everyone.

I recently started my journey in GW2, I come from World of Warcraft, I'm trying to keep an open mind at times I compare the 2 but I guess that this is inevitable having playing that one MMORPG for so long.
I just discovered this topic on Reddit, here's the link if anyone wants to take a look. I wonder what are your opinions about what OP has stated there. does GW2 have enough staying power for you? 
This is something that I have asked myself, but since I'm at the beginning of my journey I will wait and see where the road takes me, but I see questions like this one or similar often.
In games any game but especially MMORPG's it's normal that we take breaks from time to time but at it's core when I look at a game like WoW, GW2, ESO and many others out there i wish that they feel worth getting into and give me the desire of keeping login in every day if it to do all sorts of activities/content.

That has been my biggest question about GW2, i understand that the leveling to 80 isn't the focus of the game and it can be done very quickly, but in terms of content (dungeons, raids, PvP, fashion wars, achievements, exploration, lore etc...) does GW2 manage to keep players interested? Player retention is important for online games.
 

 

 

[Taclism.2406]

That mostly depends on your daily average playtime and the type of player you are (I'd guess completionist since you mention interest in all game modes?).
Imo the more you go at it everyday, the more you might run out of tasks down the line, and the harder it'll be to come back after a break - because fairly fast in your journey, the only thing the game can reward you with are titles, skins and gold (or materials, but if you have everything you need, thats just another form of gold).
You can experience every map, the entire story and every boss in about 600 hours. Which is more than enough to keep you entertained perpetually if you play for a few hours per week ; but fairly low compared to your average MMO, especially after 15 years of updates backlog.

Leveling isn't a problem imo, in the sense the mastery system (paragons level after 80, with upgrades you unlock for all of your characters, including future rerolls) are the "real, slower levels" where you'll have the more usual xp grind. I didn't check, but I wouldn't be surprised if 0 to max mastery took more xp than leveling 9 characters from 1 to 80. 
In fact, the short leveling and mastery systems helped me create rerolls - when I'm usually a mono-character guy in every MMO , because its not the usual "play forever at a sub optimal pace before you get to the good stuff"

As for "what it does to keep us engaged", the answer is mostly "discovery" (new places, new mechanics & systems, ...) until you experience it all, then the answer become "not much, that's on you at this point". There's plenty of achievements and other long term goals (like legendary gear) you can grind in your prefered modes,  to flex or for the sake of its convenience, but that's entirely self imposed, and in no way needed.  

In fact , that's probably gw2 biggest problem as far as I'm concerned. When virtually everything feels optional, when the skill floor is so low it's been confirmed the average player has a dps 10-15x lower than the players minmaxing, when many still don't understand core systems like crowd control spells (blue bars below some mobs), and so on, I ended up asking myself "Do I really want to try to master a game where barely engaging in it is enough to succeed", being too focused on challenges rather than the social aspect of the game.

Nowadays, I only log in once or twice per month to chat with guildmates and toy with the mounts, and that's ironically been a better experience than my more active years. That also spare me from investing myself in topics like balance & powercreep.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Taclism.2406

[Bladestrom.6425]

OP this is subjective, it depends on what you want to get out of the game.  I spent 10k hours on a main in WOW then came here and have 3k hours /played.  I spend roughly 15-30 hours per week in the game still, and im always doing something.  In terms of content, my goals are legendary pve armor, WVW rank, SPVP kills and playing with builds, gear with cosmetic looks i'm after, achievement hunting including open world and getting rich.  I still do dungeons/fractals/Open World bosses/Fractals for fun and a change of looting scene.   The only bit of content I avoid is raids as I got my fill of the toxicity involved in WOW.  

In WOW old content is almost dead content, in GW2 almost everything from day 1 is still valid so there is endless things to do.  If however you are after content = more powerful every day then that's not what GW2 offers.  The obvious benefit of a fixed power ceiling is that you are free to come and go from GW2 as you please with no adverse affects such as falling behind a gear power race.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Bladestrom.6425

[costepj.5120]

I have played most days for 11 years (18k hours in game) and I feel like I've only scratched the surface of what the game has to offer. There are still so many things on my todo list.

[voltaicbore.8012]

17 minutes ago, costepj.5120 said:

I have played most days for 11 years (18k hours in game) and I feel like I've only scratched the surface of what the game has to offer. There are still so many things on my todo list.

I'm in the same boat, but I've "only" been here for 7 years. There's still a lot of stuff to chase. While my legendary armory is pretty well-stocked (still working on some of the trinkets), the Wizard's Vault has allowed me to go after a few more legendary weapons I never intended on making.

In terms of overall staying power/retention in my case, the fact that (almost) everything I work towards remains just as valuable as the moment I got it is a big thing that keeps me around. It assures me that what I'm going after at any given moment is going to be worth it, and that goes a long way to keep me interested.

[Danikat.8537]

I've played GW2 for almost 8,000 hours across more than 11 years and I think for me a big part of it is I don't play every day, never intended to and never tried to make myself do it. I play when I feel like it (and can get online) and if I feel like doing something else instead I do that. I was actually put off by the time commitment required by other MMOs - I had to give up on Ultima Online because I couldn't commit to being online at the same time every day (or even every week) and without that it was pretty impossible to do anything in that game. For a few years I just assumed MMOs weren't for me, until I discovered Guild Wars 1. The story and lore (specifically the charr) were the first thing to catch my interest but what really drew me in was hearing it's an MMO without a subscription and which could be played solo. I can't remember how many hours I played GW1 for, and I pre-ordered GW2 as soon as it came out and I've been here ever since. So long-term I'm very committed but day to day and week to week I still couldn't ever say when or how long I'll be online and I still couldn't ever play a game which requires that from me.

I've done a lot of stuff in this game, played all the story except the newest bit (which I will get to, when I have time) some of it multiple times. I've made various themed and challenge characters, participated in and even helped run community events, made various legendary items and progress towards others, and played at least a bit of every game mode, but the important thing is that with very few exceptions (mainly those community events) I was able to do it at my own pace, as and when I felt like it.

Other than that I like the freedom the game gives me to do what I feel like, the details and the hidden stuff to find around the maps, the achievements which aren't just completing things you'd probably do anyway or repeating stuff dozens or hundreds of times and the lore, setting and story.

I've noticed you've made a lot of posts and topics about this over the past few weeks. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to convince yourself of, but at this point I'd say you're over thinking it. It's a game, you play it to have fun and that's all there is to it. It's not a job or a marriage or a lifetime commitment, you don't have to commit to X hours over Y years right from the start, you just need to play as long as it's fun and stop when it isn't. (Then start again when you think it would be fun again.)

I understand that probably feels like a big change, subscription games are designed to encourage that type of perpetual, daily, commitment because if you can stop playing for a month or so then you can stop paying your subscription for a month as well and then they loose money. But it's part of their business model, not something all games and certainly not all players, should or would ever want to emulate.

[Randulf.7614]

I have 11k hours since day one. I don't know of another MMO which has anywhere close to that staying power for me. And I've tried many.

Nothing else is more accessible and as easy to play

Nothing else has as much content kept relevant throughout its life

Nothing else has the same level of sandboxing

Nothing else has the variety that allows for a few mins play or a whole day's play

[Vayne.8563]

It's the only MMO I can stomach for more than a year at a time. 11 years and counting, playing every day. Sure. It has staying power for me. But I hate gear grind.

[Randulf.7614]

I will also point out, there are still things in 11 years playing most days (apart from my one year break) I have never done or finished.

- I have never raided. I want to and it's something I may try next year as I slowly become more confident with instances

- I have not finished capping my dailies

- I have never done most of the Arah explorables

- I have not done CM Hearts and Minds

- I have not completed every LS meta achievement. Nor have I completed all of Return to Living World

- I have not beaten any (except one) Tribulation modes in SAB

- I have not farmed my swimming infusions

- I have not drunk 100,000 drinks

- I have not got gold in most beetle races

- I have not finished my latest Guild Hall

- I have not finished LS1 in the new version

- I have only completed all stories one one toon

- I only have 29/30 coins in Silverwastes in 10 years of looking

- I have not changed my warrior's armour skins, mace skin, shield skin and rifle skin since 2013

- I have not unlocked every elite spec

- I have not completed the Charr personal story

- I cannot find two Tengu carvings in Drizzlewood no matter how hard I look

- I have barely touched Twilight Arbor path 4 since release

- I have not completed a CM Strike. Even Cosmic Observatory (our group failed - poss because of me)

- I have not completed the strike in Echowald. And only done the other EoD/LS1 Strikes a single time

- I have not beaten Liadri with all the orbs

- And most of important of all... I still have not farmed enough cobs for Mini Oxidecimus the Shadow Raven!

 

So, I have plenty of to do between just enjoying playing metas on repeat. I don't care about efficiency. I care about fun. GW2 deserves a lot of flack over the years, but ultimately it gives out much more repeatable long term fun than any other game I've played

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Randulf.7614

[kharmin.7683]

Another GW2 is dead/dying thread over on reddit?  Color me surprised.  🙄

[Antycypator.9874]

I don't think there's a game that can keep an average player engaged for literally years — people will always get bored, but at least it's easy to return to Guild Wars 2.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

GW2 offers things for multiple target audiences. We do have game-nomads, who play several games over the year and re-visit GW2 whenever they are done with an engaging other game. Some of them are 'active' WoW players, who come here when they played through the latest expansion and head back to WoW, when there is something new again. We also keep 'losing' players to stuff like Diablo IV, Cyberpunk 2077, FFXIV, LoTRO, BDO, TESO, ... etc. When there is a new hyped game out, a certain number of players leaves GW2 for a couple of months, to play that fancy new game. Most return. Some take extended breaks.

One of the huge advantages, compared to other competitors on the market, is that you can take a break whenever you want and return whenever you want. You are free to continue where you have started, but also dive straight into the new content. You can leave the game, watch your children learning to walk and log again 5 years later, play endgame content together with those who have been here the past 5 years.

While the game is officially Pegi12, the design is definitely more adult- and RL-friendly than most other games of this genre. No vertical progression, no story-locking. In addition, the expansions and LW are compatible with everything and do not require anything to work properly. If you buy SoTO for xmas and start playing, you are not required to play HoT to get a glider for example. The one you get is definitely lackluster compared to the HoT one, but functional.

This is why people keep returning here and do breaks from GW2. Sure we do have content draughts, but if you look carefully, you will never get bored (in theory).
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The game offers a wide range of content. What you may not find here is deep content, where you can pick a certain facet and keep playing infinitely. I show it with the example of instanced group-content:

You can find Dungeons here, which are similar to any other MMORPG Dungeon system. Eight Dungeons with multiple paths, easy/story mode and hard(er) exploration paths. But that content is outdated and was never developed beyond a certain stage.

You can play Fractals, which are lose Dungeon paths with a tier-difficulty system and a unique vertical progression system - mimicking traditional MMORPGs. That content is still getting updated, but not in a way that it is worth to wait for new paths to be announced & released.

You can play Raids - the only thing most WoW players really care, until they see how GW2 Raids work XD. Three wings with multiple raids each. High difficulty, great rewards. But discontinued content. There is no longer a raid-team in ANet. There are no frequent updates, no fresh content and only a few rare patches to fix some bugs.

You can play Dragon Response Missions (DRM), if you own the Icebrood Saga DLC. They were introduced to give new players a quick headstart in instanced group-content. Designed as an entry level to real instanced-content. They add additional story to existing locations in Tyria, but have the same difficulty as a better tutorial at best - when compared to Fractals or Raids. Also discontinued content.

You can play Strike Missions, which are mostly arena-battles against bosses. Usually multiple phases, various difficulties and mechanics. This content still gets new stuff so far. ANet sees them as a link between easy instanced content and raids. They are not raid-difficulty, but some can get pretty difficult. 


Each of these facets alone will not keep you busy for an extended time period. But if you are open to play everything and accept that not everything has raid-level difficulty, you will have a good time. 
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One of the game's strengths is the Open World content, where you can play freely with other players and fight armies and super-bosses across the planet. All maps have a so-called meta-event, which is a chain of events which build up for one big encounter. They are 'mostly' well designed and offer good loot as well as a lot of fun. They can be done daily or once in a while. Some encounters are tougher, some are easier.

In addition to the direct Open World content, we have instanced 50-player content. But here you enter a public instance, are mixed together with other players and try to beat a special meta-event. Those can also be done daily or just once in a while. That content can also be done with pre-set groups, like raid-statics and smaller numbers at any given time. The public versions are scheduled, as the map-meta-events.
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tl&dr; GW2 has 'staying power' to offer, if you are willing to try out different things over time. If you are only interested in a certain content-type, you are going to have extended breaks between the content-releases.

[Leger.3724]

I think it's different audiences want different things.

The casual open world, cooperative nature of Guild Wars 2 might not be appealing to everyone but some have spent a ton of time in it. Others like the game because they can come and go over the months and years.

If Guild Wars 2 wants that more competitive teambased option for people to pursue then I think a complete re-design of combat is necessary to give people clearly defined roles and to simplify combat to make it more approachable to bring in the largest number of people to compete whether that's pve or pvp.

New World M10 speed run and score run leaderboards comes to mind. You have 6 abilities, 4 potions/buffs you can maintain and a dodge roll. League of Legends pvp - you have 6 abilities. 4 that are core to your character/role and 2 that can be swapped among a handful of selections. These games are simple. Clearly defined roles. That's what that guy needs.

I don't think this type of overhaul is going to happen especially when you look at the forums and people complaining that SOTO didn't bring new specializations, new complexities to combat. A decent chunk of current players think more is better. I think we're waiting for a new MMO from Arena Net to get a vibrant hardcore pve nad pvp scene. We need a Guild Wars 3 to bring back clearly defined roles. Not necessarily tank/dps/healer. GW1 didn't have that type of trinity. But something with clearly defined roles and less skills to make it more approachable to a wider audience.