Is this the current state of raiding?

[Dibit.6259]

The lack of groups in lfg can be for several reasons

E.g.

-Discord making it easier to organise and plan runs

-People wanting to progress with a set group (friends, guild etc)

-Those who organised and ran raids no longer around/doing so

-The new flux of new players wanting to do end game content and therefore filling the lfg faster than before

-People not being brave enough or can't be bothered to create their own group and manage it

Probably more I can't even think of right now. Thing is if you want to do something like raids then it might be better to be proactive than reactive. Look for guilds/groups, get a bunch of friends together to do progression runs or even blind runs, create your own squad and lfg etc.

 

[TexZero.7910]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:01 AM, kharmin.7683 said:

(Unpopular opinion, perhaps) Raids should never have been implemented in GW2.  Resources would have better been spent on other content that appeals to a larger portion of the player base.

Ah yes, they could cancel dungeons and dragon response missions twice over. Brilliant move, you've solved the problems with the game.

[zeyeti.8347]

On 12/27/2023 at 6:01 PM, kharmin.7683 said:

(Unpopular opinion, perhaps) Raids should never have been implemented in GW2.  Resources would have better been spent on other content that appeals to a larger portion of the player base.

Oh no plz  , why do you have support roles like druid for then  ? you play support in open world ?

Glad anet implemented raids , fractals and strikes cm's , because open world seriously is boring af , you know pretty well you gonna succeed all metas , no challenge whatsoever , you can just play a 1200 range class an pew pew every trash mob with 0 skill involved.

For the lack of squad in lfg , it's pretty simple , raids require some vet players to be done , at least the tank must be exp in the starting wings , other wings require more and more ppl exp. , and experienced ppl join static/guild squad organized trough discord mainly , i know it pretty well i've like 2-3 discord channel with plannings for raids/strikes , and it is always full , some even start making a second squad for raiding , so yes lfg is most filled with raid/strike sellers , if you want raids at a strong playrate you should join a guild or a static.

And it is mainly done afternoon , because ppl work ....

[Obtena.7952]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:01 PM, kharmin.7683 said:

(Unpopular opinion, perhaps) Raids should never have been implemented in GW2.  Resources would have better been spent on other content that appeals to a larger portion of the player base.

Not even an opinion really. Factually proven by Anet's own words and actions to stop releasing them, as well as evident by the declining raid participation over time, as well as the fact that Anet continuing to focus on content aimed at its core playerbase is why the game still exists. Raid state also influenced to some degree by questionable actions on player side. For instance, gatekeeping content by a small but vocal faction of players that insist on telling people how to play. It all makes a pretty clear picture of what happened and why. 

But to be fair, I think if raids were implemented differently, it could have worked. Of course, all the diehard raid supporters are already rallying against you here ... That's OK because the reality of the state of raids speaks loud enough for itself, regardless of what they will say or believe. 

As for the OP ... just isn't aware that LFg has always been a place for the things they are seeing there. Just another example of how NOT to implement features to support endgame content and another contributor to the current raid state. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Nephalem.8921]

5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Not even an opinion really. Factually proven by Anet's own words and actions to stop releasing them, as well as evident by the declining raid participation over time, as well as the fact that Anet continuing to focus on content aimed at its core playerbase is why the game still exists. Raid state also influenced to some degree by questionable actions on player side. For instance, gatekeeping content by a small but vocal faction of players that insist on telling people how to play. It all makes a pretty clear picture of what happened and why. 

But to be fair, I think if raids were implemented differently, it could have worked. Of course, all the diehard raid supporters are already rallying against you here ... That's OK because the reality of the state of raids speaks loud enough for itself, regardless of what they will say or believe. 

As for the OP ... just isn't aware that LFg has always been a place for the things they are seeing there. Just another example of how NOT to implement features to support endgame content and another contributor to the current raid state. 

Without raids there wouldn't be build sites except for maybe guildjen, Twitch section would be even deader and the only thing left in the game would be the terrible story.

Raids are still more alive than most maps. Want to know what's really wasted resources? Huge story maps with unique models you enter once and never again. That is almost the entire living world. Gw2 can not compete with casual only games. Do you know why? They work on mobile devices too and have 10 times the budget. And most of these games have better story too. Open world is press1 gaming where most have chat disabled. That is mobile gaming but limited to pc only. What exactly is the core for you? Story? Every single player game has better story. Why even have all the mmo drawbacks when you are never forced to group up or interact with other players? Remove the mmo aspect completely and you really could bring it to mobile.

Pvp modes could have been their focus but they weren't either. without raids in hot huge parts of the vocal community would have died.

Also you probably forgot but gw2 was supposed to end after ls4. Their other projects failed so clearly what anet was doing was in a lot of cases the wrong choice.

Raids are dead because they are almost 5 years old and have underwhelming rewards and are limited to once per week.

[zeyeti.8347]

3 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Without raids there wouldn't be build sites except for maybe guildjen, Twitch section would be even deader and the only thing left in the game would be the terrible story.

Raids are still more alive than most maps. Want to know what's really wasted resources? Huge story maps with unique models you enter once and never again. That is almost the entire living world. Gw2 can not compete with casual only games. Do you know why? They work on mobile devices too and have 10 times the budget. And most of these games have better story too. Open world is press1 gaming where most have chat disabled. That is mobile gaming but limited to pc only. What exactly is the core for you? Story? Every single player game has better story. Why even have all the mmo drawbacks when you are never forced to group up or interact with other players? Remove the mmo aspect completely and you really could bring it to mobile.

Pvp modes could have been their focus but they weren't either. without raids in hot huge parts of the vocal community would have died.

Also you probably forgot but gw2 was supposed to end after ls4. Their other projects failed so clearly what anet was doing was in a lot of cases the wrong choice.

Raids are dead because they are almost 5 years old and have underwhelming rewards and are limited to once per week.

Completely agree , just look at fractals lfg , you'll always find a t4 +recs or a cm's + t4 , cause it is dayli , rewards are pretty good ,  it's keeping fresh with instabilities , they promise to add 1 frac (+the cm of it) once a year. Raids are old , and once you have the legi trinket and armor there is literally no interesting rewards in it and they are no more the most difficult content of the game with the strikes cm's addition (Ko , Olc and Ht are the new hardest content of the game in my opinion) ,  rewards are interesting , mecanics involve every players , not like like 3/4 of the raids where you have 1 tank and 1 kite doing 90% of the job while ppl just do the golem rotation...

Had to laugh about the quoted above Nephalem comment ... yes queensdale is pretty alive ... 75% of the players there are black lion key farmers xD , look at all maps without a meta , there isn't a living soul in it , just npc's wandering what the hell they do there .

Also ppl seems to not understand that hard content may not have success in playrate but they help the game gain in transparence trough youtube , twicth and other social média plateform, why you think anet new weapons showcase has 5 support weapons in it ? for open world ? haha , no ! This is done for some pvp , wvw and endgame pve , the average mainstream casual , as everybody says ,  won't even notice there is a new weapon available or will look at the damage it does and say  it's crap , i don't know a lot of ppl playing minstrel support in open world ..... And anet is willing to add 2 strikes (+the cm's) and 1 frac (+cm) a year , so ppl thinking because lfg is empty no one is doing raids , my guild is doing fullclear  raids  + all strikes cm's (-htcm) every week and i think we are not alone .... lfg is for pugs and not a lot of ppl like to play with total stranger , or are afraid of the requirement the leader has , or are shy , with guildmates/static on a vocal its' not the same .... , and don't forget there is a pve open world super grindy leg armor , so casual ppl who wanted a leg armor doesnt want to commit to raids anymore.

Raids are definitely not dead , just ppl don't want to go trough lfg and prefer to do it in a premade squad.

Edited December 30, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[Sobx.1758]

13 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

gatekeeping content by a small but vocal faction of players that insist on telling people how to play.

You'll need to explain to everyone how a "small but vocal fraction of players insisting on telling people how to play"(???) managed to gatekeep a whole content, lfg and somehow -apparently, by what you're saying here- made it impossible for the "silent majority" to play there however they want to. Because from where I'm sitting that's complete nonsense filled with buzzwords and bad blamegame attemtps.

Ever since I've started playing that content, I basically always used lfg and I don't remember anyone telling me what to play.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

35 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

You'll need to explain to everyone how a "small but vocal fraction of players insisting on telling people how to play"(???) managed to gatekeep a whole content, lfg and somehow -apparently, by what you're saying here- made it impossible for the "silent majority" to play however they want there. Because from where I'm sitting that's complete nonsense filled with buzzwords and bad blamegame attemtps.

Ever since I've started playing that content, I basically always used lfg and I don't remember anyone telling me what to play.

"Being told how to play" in this sense is being told that you need to do your role and you can't just force your way into any squad.

12 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

. For instance, gatekeeping content by a small but vocal faction of players that insist on telling people how to play. It all makes a pretty clear picture of what happened and why. 

There is playing how you want by bringing Core Guard for DPS and there's playing how you want by bringing a Reaper for qDPS. Noone bats an eye on someone playing what they like, but people will comment on someone bringing something that just doesn't work.

[devzero.4093]

On 12/28/2023 at 7:25 PM, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Having any form of requirement.
I had the (mis)fortune of seeing someone complain that being required to ping boots is elitist.

Ok, but have you considered that not everyone can afford a pair of nice boots?

More seriously, requirements are fine. If you don't meet them or don't like them just make your own group without them.

12 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

For instance, gatekeeping content by a small but vocal faction of players that insist on telling people how to play.

I started casually raiding a few months ago almost entirely through the in game LFG. I've been part of training runs, kp runs, my own training runs without expectations/requirements, etc., and I've got 4/6 legendary armor pieces now and I don't know how any small but vocal faction of players could possibly hope to gatekeep me (or other new players) from this content.

[Obtena.7952]

9 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Raids are dead because they are almost 5 years old and have underwhelming rewards and are limited to once per week.

I cut the part out where you tell me the good things raids brought to the game. That's not being disputed. I don't deny that raids (or ANY other equivalent endgame team content) would result in the benefits you list. 

Raids failed as sustainable endgame content and are dead for lots of reasons. The fact that the OP complains about ads and raidsells on LFG is simply indicative of those reasons. What is certain is whatever those reasons are, they existed LONG before that 5 years ago point you are talking about here. Again, this narrative that raids were successful endgame content that Anet had no business to stop developing is just not reality. The idea that Anet simply cancelled a successful content style in the game 'just because for no good reason' is just copium. They told us why they did it. There isn't a reason to not believe them. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, devzero.4093 said:

I started casually raiding a few months ago almost entirely through the in game LFG. I've been part of training runs, kp runs, my own training runs without expectations/requirements, etc., and I've got 4/6 legendary armor pieces now and I don't know how any small but vocal faction of players could possibly hope to gatekeep me (or other new players) from this content.

Of course you don't know or can't see how that would happen ... because you JUST started casually raiding a few months ago. The experience you are having now is not even close to what people experienced 9 years ago when raids were added.

I mean, we are talking about game history that happened many years ago and you think your recent experience in the last few months has some relevance to that. That's weird. 

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Sobx.1758]

45 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Of course you don't know or can't see how that would happen ... because you JUST started casually raiding a few months ago. The experience you are having now is not even close to what people experienced 9 years ago when raids were added.

I started years ago, but after people already had high kp requirements, so I do know how it was and you're still wrong.

And still:
You'll need to explain to everyone how a "small but vocal fraction of players insisting on telling people how to play"(???) managed to gatekeep a whole content, lfg and somehow -apparently, by what you're saying here- made it impossible for the "silent majority" to play there however they want to. Because from where I'm sitting that's complete nonsense filled with buzzwords and bad blamegame attemtps.

Ever since I've started playing that content, I basically always used lfg and I don't remember anyone telling me what to play.

 

45 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I mean, we are talking about game history that happened many years ago and you think your recent experience in the last few months has some relevance to that. That's weird. 

What's weird is that you were using buzz words and made up justifications to then avoid any explanation for what you baselessly said, as if nobody will connect the dots. 😉  It sure is easier to just go with that bland "you weren't there so you don't know" to someone who recently started (as if some people/maybe even you weren't complaining about gatekeeping within those past months, right?), but I was there and I do know so that doesn't really work.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Jedrik.3109]

9 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Of course you don't know or can't see how that would happen ... because you JUST started casually raiding a few months ago. The experience you are having now is not even close to what people experienced 9 years ago when raids were added.

I mean, we are talking about game history that happened many years ago and you think your recent experience in the last few months has some relevance to that. That's weird. 

 

Pugged raids since release. Completely disagree with everything you have implied. 

 

The only unscrupulous thing from back in the day was a handful of sellers would join pugs to wipe them to try to increase thier sales. 

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Jedrik.3109 said:

Pugged raids since release. Completely disagree with everything you have implied. 

Well, you can disagree all you like but the fact we no longer have raids being developed does have a player contribution, even if you claim you didn't experience it. 

There simply isn't a narrative here that excludes the role that players had in the failure of raids due to how that community interacted with each other. It doesn't take much to turn off a casual playerbase from endgame team content and that particular 'player community' contribution to raid failure was planted way before raids even existed. 

But since some of us like nostalgia and others never even got a look of how some of these bad seeds started ... here is just one example: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guardian-PVT-or-Zerker

Edited December 31, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[devzero.4093]

11 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Of course you don't know or can't see how that would happen ... because you JUST started casually raiding a few months ago. The experience you are having now is not even close to what people experienced 9 years ago when raids were added.

I mean, we are talking about game history that happened many years ago and you think your recent experience in the last few months has some relevance to that. That's weird. 

 

Do you think gatekeeping is still an issue? I can only assume what your definition of gatekeeping is as everyone seems to have different thresholds for it so correct me if I'm wrong. Gatekeeping is setting KP (or any other) requirements for people to join groups.

I wasn't playing back then that's true, but I would have tried to make my own groups just like I do now when there are KP/LI groups in the LFG that I don't fulfill or if there are no other groups that I can join but I would like to raid. With this in mind, I don't see how it's possible to gatekeep anyone from doing raids now or in the past.

For me "gatekeeping" implies that others are able to actively hinder me, which is not the case.

[Obtena.7952]

39 minutes ago, devzero.4093 said:

Do you think gatekeeping is still an issue? I can only assume what your definition of gatekeeping is as everyone seems to have different thresholds for it so correct me if I'm wrong. Gatekeeping is setting KP (or any other) requirements for people to join groups.

I wasn't playing back then that's true, but I would have tried to make my own groups just like I do now when there are KP/LI groups in the LFG that I don't fulfill or if there are no other groups that I can join but I would like to raid. With this in mind, I don't see how it's possible to gatekeep anyone from doing raids now or in the past.

For me "gatekeeping" implies that others are able to actively hinder me, which is not the case.

Not to the extent that it once was, if at all really. Personally, I play in a way that I don't have to deal with it, since a LONG time ago but if forum is any indication, I think it's much less a problem. 

I believe the biggest contributor to that reduction is the significant balancing improvements of especs within specific assigned roles, making it less of a sensitive point to team leads for WHAT people are playing, as long as they fill their role in the team. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[LSD.4673]

21 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Without raids [] the only thing left in the game would be the terrible story.

Want to know what's really wasted resources? Huge story maps with unique models you enter once and never again.

The sad reality is that those story maps with with their bosses are what's replaced raids. Liked fighting that story boss? No? Well now you get to do it all over again...and again...and again. 

Strikes are like a hallmark of the current state of the game. Not as much of a travesty as DRMs, but really not that far off, either.

[devzero.4093]

48 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Not to the extent that it once was, if at all really. Personally, I play in a way that I don't have to deal with it, since a LONG time ago but if forum is any indication, I think it's much less a problem. 

I believe the biggest contributor to that reduction is the significant balancing improvements of especs within specific assigned roles, making it less of a sensitive point to team leads for WHAT people are playing, as long as they fill their role in the team. 

Well here's a question to the experienced raiders that have been here since nearly the beginning of raids: if you had a newbie group with mostly bad specs, how bad was it, could you still clear wings? Of course the player base gets better as time progresses and power creeps in, so it won't be the same back then as it is now but it would be good to know for reference.

I ask this because the other week I was in a newbie group with extremely low dps, we're talking dps somewhat above healer dps for some players but we were able to clear W1 regardless. I know dps was very low because I did 30% of the damage on one boss and I'm an average dps at best (I main healing firebrand and prefer it to dpsing). We were heavily handicapped in comparison to other groups I've been in and we still were able to clear it without too much trouble.

I guess what I'm asking is, was it a necessity to require certain specs to be able to clear the content or did the content just get much easier/faster because you can skip mechanics (like it is now). Another way of asking this is, if I had LFG'd with mostly newbies back then like I did the other week, could I still have cleared W1?

[Linken.6345]

3 minutes ago, devzero.4093 said:

Well here's a question to the experienced raiders that have been here since nearly the beginning of raids: if you had a newbie group with mostly bad specs, how bad was it, could you still clear wings? Of course the player base gets better as time progresses and power creeps in, so it won't be the same back then as it is now but it would be good to know for reference.

I ask this because the other week I was in a newbie group with extremely low dps, we're talking dps somewhat above healer dps for some players but we were able to clear W1 regardless. I know dps was very low because I did 30% of the damage on one boss and I'm an average dps at best (I main healing firebrand and prefer it to dpsing). We were heavily handicapped in comparison to other groups I've been in and we still were able to clear it without too much trouble.

I guess what I'm asking is, was it a necessity to require certain specs to be able to clear the content or did the content just get much easier/faster because you can skip mechanics (like it is now). Another way of asking this is, if I had LFG'd with mostly newbies back then like I did the other week, could I still have cleared W1?

Probabely not, vale guardian was a hard gate at the start when raids came out.

[Nephalem.8921]

2 hours ago, devzero.4093 said:

Well here's a question to the experienced raiders that have been here since nearly the beginning of raids: if you had a newbie group with mostly bad specs, how bad was it, could you still clear wings? Of course the player base gets better as time progresses and power creeps in, so it won't be the same back then as it is now but it would be good to know for reference.

I ask this because the other week I was in a newbie group with extremely low dps, we're talking dps somewhat above healer dps for some players but we were able to clear W1 regardless. I know dps was very low because I did 30% of the damage on one boss and I'm an average dps at best (I main healing firebrand and prefer it to dpsing). We were heavily handicapped in comparison to other groups I've been in and we still were able to clear it without too much trouble.

I guess what I'm asking is, was it a necessity to require certain specs to be able to clear the content or did the content just get much easier/faster because you can skip mechanics (like it is now). Another way of asking this is, if I had LFG'd with mostly newbies back then like I did the other week, could I still have cleared W1?

Technically yes but you had a lot less options. the only healer option was druid. chrono was mandatory. warr required for might and banners. Without those you would have so much lower dmg. No might, no stat buffs... Dps difference between specs was insane. Dps rotation for dh was scepter 2 or hammer aa for quite some time until gs got buffed. 

Chrono required a 100g sigil too. You could have definitely cleared without those but pugs struggled with every "dps check" even with meta groups. It got better after a year and pugs cleared w4 b1-3 in like 2h on release day. says more about w4 than pugs though.

The content got a lot easier because of support creep. Chronos did 2k dps because they usually trolled with minstrel gear. If you play with a random group or bad supports you would have missed 15% dmg from grace of the land, 10% glyph, 5% frost spirit, sun spirit, disci and strength banner. Probably low might uptime because it required ps warr with a specific build. No quick/alac.

The day chaos chrono was created pugs had a much easier time to clear.

[Sobx.1758]

7 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Not to the extent that it once was, if at all really. Personally, I play in a way that I don't have to deal with it, since a LONG time ago but if forum is any indication, I think it's much less a problem. 

Ah so you're talking about things you don't know about. Meanwhile I pugged this whole time and I can tell you that it's not really different. People on the forum still cried about "being gatekept" (equally wrongfully as it was before) relatively recently, so not sure what "change" you're suddenly noticing here. Looks like the usual attempt to stick to the broad generalizations you have no basis for.
This forum did a great job at demonizing content and its community which was also the reason I initially didn't want to touch raids in the first place. People scared of interaction sharing their views on "how toxic everything involved is" -based on not much more than their projections or single negative experience- did more harm to that content than any "kp required" group in lfg.

Btw isn't it fun how you just tried telling someone that "they don't know because they didn't play it", but now... you're throwing out your judgement on things you "don't deal with since a LONG time ago"?

Edited December 31, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

6 hours ago, devzero.4093 said:

Well here's a question to the experienced raiders that have been here since nearly the beginning of raids: if you had a newbie group with mostly bad specs, how bad was it, could you still clear wings? Of course the player base gets better as time progresses and power creeps in, so it won't be the same back then as it is now but it would be good to know for reference.

I ask this because the other week I was in a newbie group with extremely low dps, we're talking dps somewhat above healer dps for some players but we were able to clear W1 regardless. I know dps was very low because I did 30% of the damage on one boss and I'm an average dps at best (I main healing firebrand and prefer it to dpsing). We were heavily handicapped in comparison to other groups I've been in and we still were able to clear it without too much trouble.

I guess what I'm asking is, was it a necessity to require certain specs to be able to clear the content or did the content just get much easier/faster because you can skip mechanics (like it is now). Another way of asking this is, if I had LFG'd with mostly newbies back then like I did the other week, could I still have cleared W1?

the meta composition was extremely tight in the early days of raids compared to now. you had basically two real supports in the entire game (chronomancer and druid), and maybe a few more classes were brought along to increase damage but they weren't really providing support.

 

that said, the whole design that makes raids so much different to content like strike missions is you could always clear raids no matter your group composition. there's very few dps checks, and almost all encounters come down to just doing the mechanics (far more than anything else in the game), and most of the time you could even skip the dps checks entirely by doing the mechanics so it didn't really matter if your group was good or bad, just that everyone did their part.

 

the difficulty of raids comes from "hi dps" bob being an important guy rather than a slot filler.

 

i always felt like this personal responsibility aspect of raids is what makes them so good, but its exactly what drove players away from them. the truth is players would always rather hit dps or heal checks in dungeons, fractals and normal mode strike missions than to have to personally do one thing in a raid, even if in reality it takes a massive load off the player and the entire squad to not constantly have to worry about efficiency, and instead focus on the actual gameplay.

 

training raids have always existed precisely because raids can be trained on, whereas in later content if someone doesn't meet a dps/heal check they have to respec, regear and possibly spend hours practicing their rotation on the golem, all because players were afraid of messing up in a way that causes a wipe.

 

the game ended up the way it is now because its easier to raise a number on a dps meter than to have any real responsibility.

Edited December 31, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

8 hours ago, LSD.4673 said:

The sad reality is that those story maps with with their bosses are what's replaced raids. Liked fighting that story boss? No? Well now you get to do it all over again...and again...and again. 

Strikes are like a hallmark of the current state of the game. Not as much of a travesty as DRMs, but really not that far off, either.

Strikes are fine if the mechanics are good. Soto has two Strikes, Blue Shrek and ToF. 

You fall asleep from boredom on Blue Shrek, even on CM, while ToF has a really good baseline of mechanics where they allow you to get rid of certain empowerements on the boss. Even if some of the empowerements aren't bad the randomness of what gets empowered in what order makes it an interesting fight.

If all the Strikes were on the level of ToF - not necessearily in terms of difficulty, but in terms of not being boring as hell - I'd say Strikes would be more liked than now.

1 hour ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

the meta composition was extremely tight in the early days of raids compared to now. you had basically two real supports in the entire game (chronomancer and druid), and maybe a few more classes were brought along to increase damage but they weren't really providing support.

Druid, Chrono, BS, Alacren and HFB were pretty much guaranteed. The group I raided with would much rather bring RR even on Largos than a scam and in pugs I got so many comments on playing Heal Scrapper instead of HFB as offheal. Once EoD dropped I saw a sudden jump in wipes on bosses in pugs like VG, Gorse, KC and CA which was always followed by people complaining that there's no Druid to push, to root or to Elite Spirit mechanics. Was a fun few weeks while people adjusted.

[yann.1946]

On 12/27/2023 at 10:10 PM, starlinvf.1358 said:

I also would had settled for Raids what work specifically for GW2's design, rather than shoe horn the archaic WoW DPS/Trinity model, and all the Build/Comp problems that came with it.  

These raids do exist though. W2 is something that wouldn't work in a trinity mmo for example.

[Obtena.7952]

5 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

you're talking about things you don't know about.

I think it's time to clear something up here. I don't have a problem if you want to talk about how you don't have the same experience with bad teams others have. Great for you.

...  but ...

I do have a problem with the implication that people are just lying about their own bad teaming experiences because it's not the experience you have. 

What's important here is that people understand that how players interact with each other DOES impact the development or success of a game where player interaction is crucial and the people that deny this impact are just not being honest.

No pedantic argument you attempt to have with me about the details of my game experience degrades the relevance of that concern or the truth of this player interaction impact on the game, so I'm just not going to have it with you. If you want to talk at me about my personal experiences, you can PM me. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Obtena.7952