Nerf DH guardian traps.

[Kuya.6495]

15 minutes ago, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

Oh they are 100% serious, just like all the threads asking for Ele/Thief/Necro to get nuked without ANY compensatory buffs.
Like ye, theres some clearly toxic mechanic at work that may or may not be broken, but thats the main mechanic propping the class up, nerfing it without compensation is just a blatant
"I want my not-OP class to be passively buffed by nerfing everything I cant handle into the ground".

It's just that the post came off a sarcastic but I'm aware that there has been numerous complaints about dh (judges intervention, longbow, traps) despite the fact that  none of the things being complained about are things that were buffed. 

Edited January 3 by Kuya.6495

[Sahne.6950]

Here is a little Guildwars history for you guys.

Back in the day, Dragonhunter could even become invisible and had borderline perma superspeed, when it needed it.                        Let that sink in.

 

 

Even back then DH was widely considered a "noobstomper".     

Noobstomper means, that people that dont know how to deal with it will just get stomped, while people that do know how to fight DH, have a rather ez time beating it.

Whenever someone was complaining about DH, the  first response was "noobstomper"   followed by someone else asking "what is your elo".

 

This is a "me" message.... so do with it what you want....   I think its rather ez to beat once you figured out the trap shenanigans and learned not to burst into the f3 like a ape.    DH is paper, especially if they run MAW.  Hammer is telegraphed and easily avoidable.    

the only real "problem"  is a Hammerattack that is delivered from out of your visiblescreen with the help of DI.       But then again... every spec has some sort of gimmick.   no need to castrate yet another profession cuz people cant be bothered to adapt to a new build.

Even if you are caught, all it takes is a single stab or a teleport... and lets be real....  its 2024....  most people have either of the two, if not both.

Edited January 3 by Sahne.6950

[Gotejjeken.1267]

21 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Here is a little Guildwars history for you guys.

Back in the day, Dragonhunter could even become invisible and had borderline perma superspeed, when it needed it.                        Let that sink in.

My brother in christ, 2023 does not count as 'back in the day' 😂. 

[Sahne.6950]

30 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

My brother in christ, 2023 does not count as 'back in the day' 😂. 

Dont quote me on that one... but they nerfed down the stealth duration to 1 second in..... 2021?   something like that.   or 2022.... idk man... i am getting old and time flies XD

anyways....Stealthtrapper died on that day.    You couldnt keep up the stealth at all.   at best trapper rune was used to break targetting....  but then again... you are taking a condirune for that.... so it wasnt worth it ever since they nerfed stealth duration.

 

the message of my post was:   "people complaining about DH tend to be gold 2 and below"  

Edited January 3 by Sahne.6950

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Everyone is gold 2 and below---in NA at least.  Like, the top 250 STARTS at 1400 (right now with the number of games req it actually is like 1360 lol); and it stands to reason there would be more than 250 people playing pvp...hopefully...

They just need to take the area denial off dragon's maw.  Then it's a bigger discussion around how stupidly effective ground (trap/mark/well/etc.) spam is now and go from there.  

Edited January 3 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Sahne.6950]

i am not everyone apparently.

 

You need to realize what they are giving up to take maw.....    they are loosing their only invuln, and they are loosing all of their f1-3 resets. They trade SOOOO MUCH sustain... for that one poopy trap....

Id rather fight a DH with Maw, than someone with Renewed focus.  Because all it takes to outplay Maw, being a elite, is a single stunbreak or teleport.... 

RF on the other hand....  OH MY.   Has been the staple of every Guardian build since the dawn of time.... for a reason.

 

if you truely think Maw is stronger than RF.......    "Noobstomper" is all i am gonna say.

Edited January 3 by Sahne.6950

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

I'm gonna pass getting on this bandwagon because if you see dragons maw, and the DH that set it has used F3, they are literally waiting with their arms outstretched for you to pick them up and put them back at spawn.

That being said: 

• There are a lot of dragonhunters right now
• It's kind of annoying
• It's not so annoying that I'd advocate nerfing it
• It's probably annoying because ranger unblockable got swatted on the wrist and nobody else has across the map unblockable except for thief, which DH counters and *wheeze* gunflamezerker *wheeze*

I'd rather deal with dodging spear once a minute and literally running away from a class that has to stand in place to do damage than get nuked by a ranger and down because I didn't check their hotbar before reflexively putting up my block to see if there were unblockable tokens. 

Edited January 3 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Mell.4873]

18 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

All the dh is op threads should be a wake up call to devs that tge majority of nerfcries come from players that are either new to the game or are not very skilled at the game and should cause them to take pause before considering any of the suggested balance advice in the future.

I see plenty of DH in gold 3 so this is not true. 

[Sahne.6950]

3 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I see plenty of DH in gold 3 so this is not true. 

I see alot of DH's right now too, cuz peopme believe its the new FotM... 

But its nowhere near as busted as other op things we have seen in the last few years. 

People are just so used to bash on every good build that arises. 

DH is good, no doubt, but is it op?

Edited January 3 by Sahne.6950

[Frequency.6407]

I'm curious, DH was never so strong even with invisibility but all of a sudden everybody is running DH now.

It's a case of people just forgetting how to deal with DH and some people realised that.

I'd say give it another month and everyone will learn to deal with it.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I see plenty of DH in gold 3 so this is not true. 

So dh shouldn't be viable enough to be in g3, what are u even saying?

[Mell.4873]

3 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

I see alot of DH's right now too, cuz peopme believe its the new FotM... 

But its nowhere near as busted as other op things we have seen in the last few years. 

People are just so used to bash on every good build that arises. 

DH is good, no doubt, but is it op?

I agree, the number of people who needlessly stand in traps is a lot.

It often feels like it is a plus one while defending a point since I have baited players into my teams' traps by feinting a retreat. 

2 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

So dh shouldn't be viable enough to be in g3, what are u even saying?

His claim was it was a low skill problem. I'm saying that even at gold 3 people are playing DH.

If players can make it work at gold 3 then there is obviously something worth playing and probably needs some balancing. I mean I have seen 2-4 players per match being DH.

Edited January 3 by Mell.4873

[Endo.1652]

6 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I'm gonna pass getting on this bandwagon because if you see dragons maw, and the DH that set it has used F3, they are literally waiting with their arms outstretched for you to pick them up and put them back at spawn.

That being said: 

• There are a lot of dragonhunters right now
• It's kind of annoying
• It's not so annoying that I'd advocate nerfing it
• It's probably annoying because ranger unblockable got swatted on the wrist and nobody else has across the map unblockable except for thief, which DH counters and *wheeze* gunflamezerker *wheeze*

I'd rather deal with dodging spear once a minute and literally running away from a class that has to stand in place to do damage than get nuked by a ranger and down because I didn't check their hotbar before reflexively putting up my block to see if there were unblockable tokens. 

Virt has unblockables blade shatters, spellbreaker has a couple skills, warrior has unblockable signet even though its hatd finding a spot to put that in your bar, cata could spec to be unblockable if needed. Reaper has an unblockable, ranger still has it even though its nerfed.

Boon rip heavy builds are also good vs aegis spam builds 

Stability heavy builds also make DH not as useful since a lot of their tech involves ccing to land damage. 

[Ron.9806]

On 1/2/2024 at 2:29 AM, Kees Flodder.1269 said:

To OP.

I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DODGE TRAPS SO THEY MUST BE NERFED REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Psycoprophet.8107]

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I agree, the number of people who needlessly stand in traps is a lot.

It often feels like it is a plus one while defending a point since I have baited players into my teams' traps by feinting a retreat. 

His claim was it was a low skill problem. I'm saying that even at gold 3 people are playing DH.

If players can make it work at gold 3 then there is obviously something worth playing and probably needs some balancing. I mean I have seen 2-4 players per match being DH.

So if players can make a spec work in gold 3 then there is somthing on the spec that makes it worth playing making it in need of being looked at for balancing, did u just post that? I must be understanding that wrong because that sounds absolutely absurd.

[ccccc.4963]

13 hours ago, Kuya.6495 said:

none of the things being complained about are things that were buffed. 

Balancing around the sage/avatar ammy sidenode droolers often circles back to revelations like this 
 

[Mell.4873]

4 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

So if players can make a spec work in gold 3 then there is somthing on the spec that makes it worth playing making it in need of being looked at for balancing, did u just post that? I must be understanding that wrong because that sounds absolutely absurd.

Meh, we shall wait and see.  I guess you might not like it but something will happen otherwise the complaining will not stop.... 

Anytime a class gets played to much at high ranks they get nerfed. Look at the "Sic Em"  Soulbeast pig mual build that got nerfed. They even nerfed the Smokescale out of the blue since they must have felt like having a stun and stealth opener was to strong. 

Edited January 3 by Mell.4873

[Kees Flodder.1269]

Personally i know how to beat DH with my war and mesmer. But what i have seen is that teammates gets destroyed by DH in a few secs. Teamfights on point are finished real fast with a spamming DH on point. It's easy to spam traps in teamfights. With 2 DH's in 1 team it's just a trap spam festival.

[Mell.4873]

21 minutes ago, Kees Flodder.1269 said:

Personally i know how to beat DH with my war and mesmer. But what i have seen is that teammates gets destroyed by DH in a few secs. Teamfights on point are finished real fast with a spamming DH on point. It's easy to spam traps in teamfights. With 2 DH's in 1 team it's just a trap spam festival.

That has been my experience to, especially if someone arrives late and doesn't know where the DH traps are placed. I'm looking at you Daredevil.

[Kuya.6495]

Yea it's irritating seeing your teammates feed a dh, especially double dh. This is why as soon as i see double dh or a dh and a gunflame zerker/engi of any kind, i tell the team to skip mid and take sides to hopefully split up the heavy hitters so no one gets one shot.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

Virt has unblockables blade shatters, spellbreaker has a couple skills, warrior has unblockable signet even though its hatd finding a spot to put that in your bar, cata could spec to be unblockable if needed. Reaper has an unblockable, ranger still has it even though its nerfed.

Boon rip heavy builds are also good vs aegis spam builds 

Stability heavy builds also make DH not as useful since a lot of their tech involves ccing to land damage. 

I forgot about Virt tbh. lmao. slow mesmers rise up

a couple of those you listed that I didn't touch on have unblockable you need to hug  someone mostly to use, which, I mean- not happening vs a trap DH.

Virtuoso though? sure. and Ranger's still works of course. It just has a cooldown people may not be used to.

Edited January 3 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Vinny.7260]

8 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I forgot about Virt tbh. lmao. slow mesmers rise up

a couple of those you listed that I didn't touch on have unblockable you need to hug  someone mostly to use, which, I mean- not happening vs a trap DH.

Virtuoso though? sure. and Ranger's still works of course. It just has a cooldown people may not be used to.

Power Virtuoso turns DH into food.

GS Bladesong scaling + boon stripping + unblockable + ranged pressure + invuln + disengage.

 

That being said. I think the only thing people could arguably find problematic is all the Aegis their traps have now.

• Opens up avenues like Defender Relic to be used.
• Makes ToF a defensive.

 

If people are having issues with Dragon's Maw... Maybe there should be a video made on how to dodge it- I imagine a lot of people dodge too late or something. There's plenty of time to react to it, such as dodging back. A lot of specs currently have access to Stability, even if it's a minor amount.

 

If people are having issues with damage, just reduce the duration on ToF to 4s instead of 6s. Reduces the window of 'oopsie' as they walk on the literal blades jutting up from the ground.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

6 hours ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

Virt has unblockables blade shatters 

every time you die to a virtuoso game should ban you for 24h so you think about what you've just done.
Yes, power virtuoso is a decent counter for DH ("decent" as in, the main defensive are blocks of questionable value when half of the toolkit of a dh is unblokable). You know what hard counters a virtuoso? A kittening rock. You don't take a virtuoso into a fight where a dh exists; you are useless against everything else, and the one guy you actually counter can literally just sit beside a rock and ignore you, and there's literally nothing you can do about it.

As for spellbreaker, good luck using melee skills against a class with 1500 range and pulsing AoE denial.

I don't think DH is OP or anything, but don't act as if it had any natural predators, it has none. It has all decent matchups and bad (but very situational) ones.

Edited January 3 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Gotejjeken.1267]

4 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Virtuoso though? sure. and Ranger's still works of course. It just has a cooldown people may not be used to.

Looking for Signet of the Hunt on the bar is hard.

10 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

As for spellbreaker, good luck using melee skills against a class with 1500 range and pulsing AoE denial.

This is the actual issue.  Dragon Maw does too much--it has area denial, applies slow, and gives the DH might when triggered.  This isn't like Nature Binding or Entangle on ranger which can be blinded, dodged, blocked, etc.  

14 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i am not everyone apparently.

You need to realize what they are giving up to take maw.....    they are loosing their only invuln, and they are loosing all of their f1-3 resets. They trade SOOOO MUCH sustain... for that one poopy trap....

Aren't you on EU?

Also don't care what a DH gives up to do this--the forum was up in arms with ranger burst builds and those had to give up literally every defense and condi clear to work.  No copium for DH's.

DH is also used in p1-2+ on NA...

pc fixed we gaming 👀 - Twitch

Sure looks like Naru was struggling there with 'no defenses' while 2v1 porting thru walls to lock ppl in traps and true shotting from 1500 to swing the game back in their favor.  

[Flowki.7194]

More games full of low skill DH damage.. hotfix this kitten Anet.. its worse than condi cata. Really just had a game with 2 of them, both not even good at the game spamming true and spear.. I litterally dodged 2x each they just spam it predictable as hell. But then you still can't do fk all to get close becuase of trap spam, and I used dodges... its fking kitten area denial at any range.

 

Is this normal now? youre expected to blow all dodges and immunes within 5-10 seconds regardless of ther skill level becuase DHs??? its not even a hard spec kitten.

Edited January 3 by Flowki.7194