January 30 Balance Update Preview

[Jijimuge.4675]

19 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

My thoughts, exactly. It look like they will do the exact opposite of what they said they would do.

(Re Radiant Fire ofc)

I think they still want to tie the benefits to torch but, at present, if you score a crit when not wielding a torch, you've effectively "wasted" a radiant fire proc.  Thus, having anything other than torch in the off-hand slot would have an opportunity cost.

In the version going forward, you'll be able to switch in-combat between off-hand torch and off-hand pistol (or other if you wish) and still retain the benefit of radiant fire, as the time for the recharge of the 2 charges should be more than enough to allow for use of the other off-hand.

The intention of this change is quite narrow, IMO - it's really just to enable x/Torch and switch to x/Pistol rather than almost forcing x/Torch all the time

Edit : it also makes the use of the additional charge more predictable if one's stat set (e.g.ritualists) leaves one with a lowish crit chance, but I don't think that's the focus of this change

Edited January 12 by Jijimuge.4675

[mirage.8046]

I like how specter receives no changes but there are nerfs to unpopular and uncommon support builds like quickness berserker or quickness untamed. Who on earth are playing these builds that much realistically? I still see the bread and butter supports requested like druid, firebrand, mechanist, and herald. I totally get that support dps builds in no way should compete on the same level of dps builds. But alac mirage has been needlessly nerfed; the axe changes and chaotic persistence are horrible. Confusion doesn't do much dmg and is not even relevant in PvE; we have to take a master trait to give alacrity; we dedicate to dodges and deceptions to use chaos vortex. I am tired of these nerfs. Also ironically no mention of alacrity willbender, but guess that isn't gonna be changed any time soon.

[Ironhide Wolf.3275]

o/ Warrior main... 

Berserker feels like it needs near half, if not full diviners for respectable quickness upkeep.

I love bladesworn alac and Druid Alac because I can build uptime on alac so I can do other things later in the fight. Berserker quickness is super hard and slow to build up even with a 50/50 diviners/berserker stat set. So when a boss phases for a couple seconds, I still have 100% alac uptime. IMO PvE Berserker "Head the Soul" could use +1/2 to 1 (axe execute) and +1 to 1 1/2 (everything else) second on the quickness time.  Just so I can build out that quickness uptime for when I need to do mechanics or phase. By the time I'm in full diviners gear, i'm not doing very good dps. Right now Quick Zerker only feels effective on targets that don't move, and don't phase often, or don't stun at all. 

PS. I still think it would be cool if Anet balance team played around with the boon-share range for PvE at least. Just so we can cover nearby kiters, tanks, ranged, and people doing mechanics. Again, alac bladesworn range does this sort of thing very well. We're already limited to 5 people we can buff. Not like we're gonna accidently over-buff and destroy the world bosses we are already speed-running *Cough* claw of jormag *cough* 

Edit: Would love to see a touch up on some old weapons that never see any use. Like warrior shield or elementalist staff. I was also hoping to see some follow-through with removing weapon-specific traits, reducing cooldowns as needed on the weapon without traits, and using those traits to do cool things with so im not stuck taking a traitline if I want to be effective with a certain weapon. 

Edited January 12 by Ironhide Wolf.3275
Added an ask to take a second look at some of the least used weapons in each class and see where they underperform, and if they can fill a need.

[Althean.5976]

19 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

We've also reworked the Radiant Fire trait to be less dependent on always having a torch equipped to make room for condition builds to swap between off-hand torches and pistols.

• Radiant Fire: This trait no longer grants Zealot's Flame when critically striking an enemy, and instead it grants an additional ammunition to Zealot's Flame. This trait also causes Zealot's Flame to inflict additional burning to enemies in PvE only.

I'd love some clarification here. Does Radiant Fire still need a critical hit to grant that additional ammunition charge, or is it automatically given?
Additionally, I'm not seeing how this incentivizes condi builds to use off-hand pistol instead of torch, as this trait is seemingly still a massive benefit to torch (and that chunk is only usable with torch equipped now) and there isn't a suitable master trait to swap it for in Radiance that benefits these builds. Unless this is meant to lessen the benefits to being in melee range with off-hand pistol by not getting that aoe burning on crits; though, I'm concerned that this simply makes having torch equipped even more mandatory rather than encouraging ranged pistol.

 

After-thought: This could lead to having two very distinct condi niches. Off-hand torch would be stronger in melee, whereas pistol-pistol would be the better ranged condi option since torch has such a long cooldown on it's only ranged skill. This might actually solve the "Why not just use pistols in melee?" question if the numbers work out. 🤔

[Preppy.7046]

1 hour ago, cryorion.9532 said:

No changes to Willbender and celestial stat in WvW? What a joke.

anet, pls pls take a look at WvW roaming/small squad issues.  There've been a surprising number of players hard camping locations with their busted builds of choice, such as catalyst.  Players should not be confident deliberately running into 3 on 1 matchups.  Have some risk to all that reward.  Being able to win 3 on 1 fights in wvw should be the rare lucky exception, not the expectation.

[Jijimuge.4675]

1 hour ago, Althean.5976 said:

I'd love some clarification here. Does Radiant Fire still need a critical hit to grant that additional ammunition charge, or is it automatically given?
Additionally, I'm not seeing how this incentivizes condi builds to use off-hand pistol instead of torch, as this trait is seemingly still a massive benefit to torch (and that chunk is only usable with torch equipped now) and there isn't a suitable master trait to swap it for in Radiance that benefits these builds. Unless this is meant to lessen the benefits to being in melee range with off-hand pistol by not getting that aoe burning on crits; though, I'm concerned that this simply makes having torch equipped even more mandatory rather than encouraging ranged pistol.

 

After-thought: This could lead to having two very distinct condi niches. Off-hand torch would be stronger in melee, whereas pistol-pistol would be the better ranged condi option since torch has such a long cooldown on it's only ranged skill. This might actually solve the "Why not just use pistols in melee?" question if the numbers work out. 🤔

My read of it is that the extra charge is a change to the skill and doesn't rely on crits.

I don't think Anet want to get people to use off-hand pistol instead of torch, but that this is instead an attempt to get people to use off hand torch as well as off-hand pistol and switch between them.  I.e. Having a torch may still be mandatory, but this may make it that off-hand pistol on one's other set becomes "mandatory" too

Edited January 12 by Jijimuge.4675
Typo - wrote "pistol" twice, but one of them should have been "torch"

[Dadnir.5038]

10 minutes ago, Jijimuge.4675 said:

(Re Radiant Fire ofc)

I think they still want to tie the benefits to torch but, at present, if you score a crit when not wielding a torch, you've effectively "wasted" a radiant fire proc.  Thus, having anything other than torch in the off-hand slot would have an opportunity cost.

In the version going forward, you'll be able to switch in-combat between off-hand torch and off-hand pistol (or other if you wish) and still retain the benefit of radiant fire, as the time for the recharge of the 2 charges should be more than enough to allow for use of the other off-hand.

The intention of this change is quite narrow, IMO - it's really just to enable x/Torch and switch to x/Pistol rather than almost forcing x/Torch all the time

Edit : it also makes the use of the additional charge more predictable if one's stat set (e.g.ritualists) leaves one with a lowish crit chance, but I don't think that's the focus of this change

I didn't see this logic but it seem you're right. Still, I feel that this is a really poor way to increase the viability of this trait.

[cap.3820]

please on mesmer, focus on nerfing or looking at what people actually play  which is condi virtuoso in a HUGE margin. Why would you nerf mirage this hard when already very few of us play it on the regular, it basically just prooves the balance its based on numbers on a golem and not what people play or how the high skillcap is to play a class. 

Edited January 12 by cap.3820

[Perceptor.7189]

19 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Adaptive Armor has been reworked to be an effective grandmaster trait for support builds to prepare for the introduction of the short bow.

Yeah...you guys are gonna need a ton of reworks before short bow becomes an  actual usefull weapon...

[Althean.5976]

1 hour ago, IvarEriksson.2498 said:

What’s the reason for not going all the way? I can’t see a single reason for it to be the way it is now. 

Fully separating builds and balancing based on game modes would add a good amount more work to keep track of it all vs having individual skill adjustments. It also keeps classes playing more closely to each other across game modes, so you don't take Chrono into WvW and it plays fundamentally different from pve. If this were the case, there would be a much higher barrier to entry when jumping from mode to mode. Just a theory, as I don't work at anet, but this seems a likely part of the reason.

[Fueki.4753]

Thank you for nothing.

If you are going to nerf Warrior, at least give us some QoL in return.

[NeroMuramasa.5726]

Please reconsider the severity of the mirage changes.

[Myror.7521]

@Perceptor.7189 actually it is usefull...... in Open World PvE xD

[Khalisto.5780]

well they clearly want top dps around 42k bench and supp dps around 35k max

[Skyroar.2974]

Guardian's torch changes are very welcome, but there's still something in that offhand that Anet didn't touch yet, and they should: the usefulness of torch #5. It's the coolest skill of the two, but also the worst. The new Radiant Fire trait should have improved it, instead of improving the already good #4. Or, perhaps, #5 should have had some QoL changes, like better (and stronger) burning distribution across its duration, lower casting time, etc.

Condi Guardians are stuck with torch, and they will continue to be after the patch. For this reason, torch #5 should be an enjoyable skill to use that is part of the rotation, instead of a dead skill.

Edited January 12 by Skyroar.2974

[Althean.5976]

12 minutes ago, Jijimuge.4675 said:

My read of it is that the extra charge is a change to the skill and doesn't rely on crits.

I don't think Anet want to get people to use off-hand pistol instead of torch, but is instead an attempt to get people to use off hand pistol as well as off-hand pistol and switch between them.  I.e. Having a torch may still be mandatory, but this may make it that off-hand pistol on one's other set becomes "mandatory" too

Yeah, I could definitely see that happening. Like your other post said, it'd make it more reliable. I also hadn't thought about the "wasted" Radiant Fire if you don't have torch currently equipped when it procs, so not having it anchored to the crit would help ease the pain a lot

[itsnotmattylol.8457]

Where's the willbender buff?

[Althean.5976]

2 minutes ago, Skyroar.2974 said:

Guardian's torch changes are very welcome, but there's still something that Anet didn't touch yet there, and they should: the usefulness of torch #5. It's the coolest skill of the two, but also very underwhelming. The new Radiant Fire trait should have improved it, instead of improving the already good #4. Or, perhaps, #5 should have some QoL changes, like better (and stronger) burning distribution, lower casting time, etc.

I dunno how realistic it would be, but I do wonder if not forcing skill 5 to target lock on an enemy would make the condi cleanse part of it more viable

Edited January 12 by Althean.5976

[Finnguala.6921]

I'm excited to be playing support restorative mantras :3

 

Can someone fill me in on how Mirage has been treated lately/state of Mirage?

Edited January 12 by Finnguala.6921
misread at first also question

[Thy Weeping Willow.6851]

ngl i think the nerfs on mirage are harsh and not really justified. you barely see this class in any group. just because the 'snow crows' rota is somewhere high up doesnt mean its on average used at all that much. I'm honestly a little confused about this one. You have to realise there are many way easier to play classes that have high dps- and not getting nerfs, where mirage is not easy to play- and gets such harsh nerfs. if you want to fight powercreep- then do it equally to all classes, not nitpick the ones that are already so situational. in this case i can understand nerfs in wvw, not pve

also rip my condi tempest- was finally enjoying my ele again xD

Edited January 14 by Thy Weeping Willow.6851

[LichOverlord.6329]

2 hours ago, Excitonalt.7340 said:

Looks very harsh nerf to condi mirage. The spec is hard to play well, takes long time to ramp up and also very limited by forced movement on many encounters. I don't see why it is worth playing if you nerf it this hard.  It makes no sense to me to nerf condi mirage while everyone is actually playing condi virtuoso. The goal balance should be promoting diversity not trying to normalize benchmark number on a golem fight.

As a mirage main, I'm incredibly dissapointed with this patch

Such heavy-handed nerfs to mirage while condi virtuoso clears its damage by leaps and bounds with a tenth of the effort is just... stupid

CmC needs to learn how to better lead the balance of the game for PvE, or take a step back and just focus on PvP - his mode of choice - while someone else takes over and leads the PvE balance

They took a step forward in November, and are now taking two steps back again - this feels like a huge slap in the face like with the infamously hated June 2023 balance update but on a much smaller scale

Edited January 12 by LichOverlord.6329

[XDeadzX.2581]

20 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Twin Darts (Devourer Family): Reduced the power coefficient per hit from 0.25 to 0.15 in PvE only.

This really hurts.
Devourer has one niche of being a power untamed dps pet; and it's not even the best at it on a golem, just more convenient in fights. I can understand a much smaller decrease in it's dps, but this is a wild swing at something not even over-performing. Significantly reduces the pet's viability from acceptable near-top placement to the lower half of the pack. It's a 0.5 to 0.3 coeff nerf on it's only damage skill, for anyone not familiar with the family type.

I've always loved the devourer pets and seeing it actually usable again after 10 years has been awesome. But it's such a short lived joy given it's been 3 months and it's going back into the dumpster.

[vozahlaas.3514]

The berserker nerfs are REALLY not well implemented. This'll make power berserker suffer as well while not nerfing power quickness berserker enough. Both builds will lose about 2k dps.
A sensible solution would've been making burst skills do less damage by let's say 20% with "Heat the Soul". This would've resulted in an approximately 7% dps loss for power quickness berserker based on a quick calculation and the current benchmark on Snowcrows' website. Prediction is that power berserker will go from 42.9->41k and power quickness will go from 38.9->37k. I'm probably not smart enough to put this theory into practice so I might be wrong.
Also, why has condi berserker been left alone for so long now? King of Fires is just a nightmare to balance, and the build got a nerf because 3 people could do 49k with a massively altered rotation that wouldn't be as potent on an actual encounter. And 2 of the 3 people were tempests giving fire auras... That trait really has to be reworked to not depend on OTHERS' fire auras. Maybe it grants a charge when you give yourself fire aura and you can expend it with a rage skill?

Edit: I recalculated and realised I'm dumb. The 7% dps loss is actually 9% and it would put power quickness berserker at ~35400 dps, which in my opinion is still too high for any boon support.

Edited January 13 by vozahlaas.3514
miscalculation

[frazazel.7501]

How much might / fury are we talking from Relic of the Pack? Probably people are interested in other relic changes, too.

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

Please don't forget about this and fix it.

It's just a simple number change from 0.75 to 1 second for PvE, c'mon now. But it's been over freaking 6 months.