I am once again pitching Condi Spellbreaker

[HeliosMagi.9867]

There are already 2 threads about how Warrior only has 1 viable Condi option in PvE. I would like to throw my hat into a ring by suggesting some reworks to Spellbreaker traits to make it a viable condi option.

1: No Escape - In addition to its current effects, make it so that you apply Torment when you Immobilize an enemy. Torment is the condition that most obviously synergizes with Spellbreaker's CC-heavy playstyle, and having it proc on Immobilize has the obvious synergy with Sword F1, as well as making MH Mace and Shield, which see next to no use in PVE potentially viable (Could this make Sword/Shield Warrior actually good?)

2: Loss Aversion: -  Re-work this trait to instead apply Torment when disabling foes, and to either apply additional Torment when removing boons or to cause our Boon Strips to instead Corrupt Boons. Maybe also add a Torment Duration Up effect to either this or the previous trait.

3: Magebane Tether - Simply make the 15% Damage bonus apply to both Condition and Strike damage if it doesn't already.

And that's my ideas for Condi Spellbreaker.

[draxynnic.3719]

Spellbreaker is supposed to be tapping into a bit of mesmer magic (maybe virtuoso with the dagger barrage?), so a bit of Torment and/or Confusion available in its kit would absolutely be justified.

[Crowfang.8529]

On 2/3/2024 at 3:52 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

Spellbreaker is supposed to be tapping into a bit of mesmer magic (maybe virtuoso with the dagger barrage?), so a bit of Torment and/or Confusion available in its kit would absolutely be justified.

Mesmer skills dont apply torment AND daze/remove boons. The later are only power skills. So are the SB skills.

[Vinny.7260]

As much as I love the concept of Spellbreaker tapping into its 'Mesmery' roots. There are still issues that kind of force Spellbreaker into the 'Power only' lane.

Attacker's Insight is already granting Power/Precision/Ferocity (quite literally Berserker stats).

Its utility skills don't compliment the condition-based playstyle.

I can see maybe Arms getting changes to compliment the Spellbreaker playstyle more and inflicting conditions that way.

Condition and Torment absolutely could sink into Spellbreaker. Maybe even Bleeding.

 

 

[draxynnic.3719]

12 hours ago, Vinny.7260 said:

As much as I love the concept of Spellbreaker tapping into its 'Mesmery' roots. There are still issues that kind of force Spellbreaker into the 'Power only' lane.

Attacker's Insight is already granting Power/Precision/Ferocity (quite literally Berserker stats).

Its utility skills don't compliment the condition-based playstyle.

I can see maybe Arms getting changes to compliment the Spellbreaker playstyle more and inflicting conditions that way.

Condition and Torment absolutely could sink into Spellbreaker. Maybe even Bleeding.

 

 

There would be ways around that. The utility skills really need a rework anyway - they're practically never used. Attacker's Insight could be resolved by having a trait that adds condi stats, although that would carry a bigger risk of replacing something that's actually being used.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I want alac Spellbreaker to be a thing and Condi bladesworn. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

7 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

There would be ways around that. The utility skills really need a rework anyway - they're practically never used. Attacker's Insight could be resolved by having a trait that adds condi stats, although that would carry a bigger risk of replacing something that's actually being used.

I would add expertise to Attacker's Insight.

[evilcat.6817]

I would like it if some of spellbreaker specialization traits had line like "you dagger x skill now applies condi of choice" could be something classic like bleeding on main had, but could be also torment on offhand.

And ideally make it for daggers, so the spec had style.

[mirage.8046]

The lack of extra conditions is not only why condition spellbreaker is not even a thing, but the fact that spellbreaker is a power-focused elite spec. I would put enchantment collapse to cause torment to targets after stripping a boon from one target. Or maybe make dispelling force apply bleeding or confusion after CCing an enemy. Maybe that useless "fear me!" or "imminent threat" could finally be useful to trigger extra conditions on top of fear and taunt! 🥺 Strength does have Body Blow to help with condition spellbreaker but that's too easy to counter and it's weak alone without other sources of condition damage. To punish an enemy even further not using a stunbreak or being CC'd, confusion or bleeding should pulse every second an enemy is under CC. 

Edited February 12 by mirage.8046
spicy change

[Iustitian.9176]

I like the concept and tried a condi spellbreaker many times, but it's not... very effective.

The only trait that fits good with cc and condi damage is body blow in the strength traitline what make it hard to configure a good build (i would like to use the arms and defense traitline). 

The trait unsuspecting foe in the arms traitline could need a second effect too. It would make sense to add the effect of body blow to it and add another trait to the strength traitline with a cc benefit. 

[Leo G.4501]

I like mechanical-type changes. Nothing major like changing the profession mechanic...but what if No Escape also applied a unique effect on the target called "Cornered" upon inflicting immobilize. Cornered would last 8 sec and inflict 10 stacks of vulnerability on application. While cornered, they receive condition damage over time for every stack of vulnerability plus an additional tick of damage when they get CC'ed. Add onto Magebane Tether 4sec of Cornered if they aren't already cornered or +8sec of cornered if they already have it.

Could synergize somewhat with Arms and its Vulnerability traits. On top of that, the above idea of making Magebane Tether affect condi damage and having Expertise on Attacker's Insight would flush well with a condi weapon.

If they wanna be dandy with it, add onto Sun and Moon style that conditions do something like an additional 2% damage per Invuln stack plus an additional 1% if a dagger is equipped. This is partially so the trait does something with no daggers equipped but also so it gives daggers a bigger bite when used by a SB.

[draxynnic.3719]

If one was to modify Sun and Moon to enable condition builds, wouldn't it make more sense to take the Virtuoso route and have the trait proc conditions when using dagger skills (and possibly skills on some other weapons)?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

12 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

If one was to modify Sun and Moon to enable condition builds, wouldn't it make more sense to take the Virtuoso route and have the trait proc conditions when using dagger skills (and possibly skills on some other weapons)?

Confusion on crit perhaps?

[StraightPath.3972]

7 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Confusion on crit perhaps?

Confusion bombs to punish ability spamming are one thing.
Having every action you take punished by perma confusion spam is another.

It would be very unhealthy for such a powerful condition to be so easily accessible.
If a skill applies confusion it should either:
 

• have a reasonable cd
• or be attached to a telegraphed action
• or be earned with an outplay, such as scoring an interrupt.

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

40 minutes ago, StraightPath.3972 said:

Confusion bombs to punish ability spamming are one thing.
Having every action you take punished by perma confusion spam is another.

It would be very unhealthy for such a powerful condition to be so easily accessible.
If a skill applies confusion it should either:
 

• have a reasonable cd
• or be attached to a telegraphed action
• or be earned with an outplay, such as scoring an interrupt.

 

It would be balanced by a small duration so it can't get to too high of a stack count.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

42 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

It would be balanced by a small duration so it can't get to too high of a stack count.

It would need to be a duration of like 1 3/4 seconds, or less, but even then the situation of the Relic of Akeem arises where all it takes is one hit of Skill 4 on Sword and you get an AoE trigger of Confusion and Torment on only a 10 second ICD.

I'll be honest, I will never be in support of more Condition builds being added into the game. GW1 went down the route of them being some of the strongest builds in the entire game with minimal counterplay and GW2 seems to be steering in that direction now as well and it just worries me because it is honestly some of the most passive gameplay even by GW2 standards and Condition Damage isn't even affected by Toughness, as well as Protection, which should honestly not be a thing.

[Leo G.4501]

1 hour ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

It would need to be a duration of like 1 3/4 seconds, or less, but even then the situation of the Relic of Akeem arises where all it takes is one hit of Skill 4 on Sword and you get an AoE trigger of Confusion and Torment on only a 10 second ICD.

I'll be honest, I will never be in support of more Condition builds being added into the game. GW1 went down the route of them being some of the strongest builds in the entire game with minimal counterplay and GW2 seems to be steering in that direction now as well and it just worries me because it is honestly some of the most passive gameplay even by GW2 standards and Condition Damage isn't even affected by Toughness, as well as Protection, which should honestly not be a thing.

Funnily enough, that's why I suggested adding a different trait that basically makes Vulnerability into a condition damage trait for a specific window. It doesn't so much add a slew of extra conditions onto the plate but rather takes advantage of existing conditions in order to apply damage. That and it has different counterplay in that both Resistance and Resolution could be used to weaken it but also that the Spellbreaker doesn't have to apply the vulnerability themselves.

It's supposed to signal to the victim the walls are closing in AND punish them if they don't manage to avoid control during that window. After the window, they just have to avoid being cornered again.  

[mirage.8046]

14 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Confusion on crit perhaps?

I love confusion as the next person does, but on crit is pretty strong. If condi spellbreaker went down this route, perhaps make interrupts inflict confusion like mesmer's ineptitude trait. I know in my previous post I said it could trigger upon CC, but looking back on it, that might be too much confusion onto a mere disable rather than skillful interrupts. And a part-two effect when you strip boons, you also inflict confusion. It's punishing mindless skill spam, and giving it to an on-crit effect would be bonkers.

[xellink.7568]

51 minutes ago, mirage.8046 said:

I love confusion as the next person does, but on crit is pretty strong. If condi spellbreaker went down this route, perhaps make interrupts inflict confusion like mesmer's ineptitude trait. I know in my previous post I said it could trigger upon CC, but looking back on it, that might be too much confusion onto a mere disable rather than skillful interrupts. And a part-two effect when you strip boons, you also inflict confusion. It's punishing mindless skill spam, and giving it to an on-crit effect would be bonkers.

if virtuoso can have jagged mind with almost no tradeoffs, spellbreaker can have easy condi triggers. 

[Leo G.4501]

5 minutes ago, xellink.7568 said:

if virtuoso can have jagged mind with almost no tradeoffs, spellbreaker can have easy condi triggers. 

Because bleeding has low value, that's why Warrior gets a bleed crit trait.

[xellink.7568]

1 hour ago, Leo G.4501 said:

Because bleeding has low value, that's why Warrior gets a bleed crit trait.

In gw1 W/me often used illusionary weaponry to bypass blocks and physical armor. I think torment is a good candidate. I believe it can be balanced. In PvP what it means that even if you trigger a channeled block, the ticks don't end and continue to hurt. It was what W/me was meant to do. 

Now we don't even have spellbreaker, we just have breaker. Put the spell back in spellbreaker.

[xellink.7568]

Illusionary Weaponry (trait): Your power is reduced to 0. Every boon removal skill or weapon skill hit that cost a resource/has a recharge inflicts torment. All damaging conditions inflict torment instead. Your attacks don't grant adrenaline.

I propose that it should replace Guard Counter or Slow Counter

Synergises with 

Weapon Skills

Sword Autos
Final thrust (<50hp)
Flurry 9x (cleave)
Cyclone axe (cleave)
Dual Strike 2x
Whirling Axe 15x (cleave)
Bladestorm 7x (cleave)

Axe autos won't work and deal 0 damage, but sword autos will have bleed that inflicts torment instead. 
Using fire weapons such as bow and torch is a downgrade. 

Utility skills

Banner of Discipline
Break Enchantments

Precision skills do proc bleeding that is now converted to tormenting and players will effectively hit condi duration cap with tormenting runes and sigil. This negates the need for expertise.
Rabid and seraph stats will be used once condi duration cap is hit. 

 

Play like how the W/Me of old used to do in GW1. 

Edited March 10 by xellink.7568

[draxynnic.3719]

6 hours ago, xellink.7568 said:

if virtuoso can have jagged mind with almost no tradeoffs, spellbreaker can have easy condi triggers. 

I think mirage's objection was to confusion specifically. Torment on crit would still have a W/Me flavour, since torment has become the default mesmer condition for when confusion would be too much.