March 19 Balance Update Preview

[Angesombre.4630]

What I see over time is that Anet has removed what made the classes unique to give buffs to everyone. And then they said, well, too many buffs, so we're going to reduce them, and then they're going to standardise the classes identically, with no flavour and just a slightly different gameplay. I don't recognise the game I've been playing for over 10 years.

I'll just take the revenant as an example because I'm less familiar with the others, but in the end Anet only wanted to make hybrid specialisations according to what they said, and now they're trying to break everything by changing them in a way that doesn't always seem right to me.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

1 hour ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

And then they said, well, too many buffs, so we're going to reduce them, and then they're going to standardise the classes identically, with no flavour and just a slightly different gameplay.

I know, right? My guardian moves in an out of stealth while building malice to burst people down with a rifle at 1500 range so well that sometimes I can tell it from my necromancer. And my thief is so slow and blocks attacks for the whole party with big bubbles while opening divine tomes of holy judgment and healing. Your thief gets tomes too, right? That's way too much like the warrior's clones and phantasms. They're exactly the same I can't even tell them apart sometimes. Oh wait.... sorry I messed up. It's the ranger that gets the tomes of animal, plant, and fungus lore. Thief just gets to attune to different elements to change up their whole skillset based on what weapon they equip. My bad. These mechanics and gameplays are just too similar, and they have no recognizable class concept or flavor to them, so I can't remember which goes with which class.🙄

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

1 hour ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I know, right? My guardian moves in an out of stealth while building malice to burst people down with a rifle at 1500 range so well that sometimes I can tell it from my necromancer. And my thief is so slow and blocks attacks for the whole party with big bubbles while opening divine tomes of holy judgment and healing. Your thief gets tomes too, right? That's way too much like the warrior's clones and phantasms. They're exactly the same I can't even tell them apart sometimes. Oh wait.... sorry I messed up. It's the ranger that gets the tomes of animal, plant, and fungus lore. Thief just gets to attune to different elements to change up their whole skillset based on what weapon they equip. My bad. These mechanics and gameplays are just too similar, and they have no recognizable class concept or flavor to them, so I can't remember which goes with which class.🙄

Wow, A-net really made an impressive work I guess. People really believe that small gimmicks here and there with unique animations means unique gameplay. Truly impressive feat.

[Batalix.2873]

12 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Wow, A-net really made an impressive work I guess. People really believe that small gimmicks here and there with unique animations means unique gameplay. Truly impressive feat.

Not to mention, this guy is relying on only the best examples of distinct kit/gameplay building. I would argue that Deadeye and Firebrand are two of the most fleshed out especs in the game, but get a lot more tools and distinct identity than, say, Dragonhunter, Willbender, Daredevil, or Specter. I would put Druid, Scourge, Weaver, and maaaaybe Spellbreaker or Soulbeast on the same level of "class overhaul" in terms of overall depth/breadth of design. And while that list may be subjective, (1) it's not a long list, and (2) Deadeye, Firebrand, Druid, and Scourge have all had their identities significantly retooled and flattened over the past year; the only reason the other examples weren't is because they were already fairly DPS-focused.

He also mentions Mesmer. Although Mesmer might be very distinct from the other professions, the especs themselves really do not differentiate from each other very well mechanically. Mirage's shatters are basically core and it doesn't do nearly enough with clone swap gimmicks, not to mention was ruined by the invention of lazy alac staff mirage. Chrono's shatters, other than F5, aren't that different from core either, and while wells used to be kind of cool and unique, a huge number of features (Warrior banners, Ranger spirits, Scrapper gyros, Catalyst spheres, as well as a lot of one-off fields) are just wells. And Virtuoso has literally nothing going for it other than blades and more blades, despite so much potential for more mind-kitten manipulation style support, and in some respects tops Mechanist as the worst-designed espec for having no meaningful trade-offs or limitations despite extremely brain-dead ranged gameplay.

Yes, the especs, at least the HoT/PoF especs, have pretty strong *concepts* that they display visually. But they don't deliver on those concepts through gameplay remotely as well as they used to. And don't even get me started on how the EoD especs still needed more iterations at the conceptual level, those are just embarrassingly disjointed, unpolished, uninventive, and mechanically far too obsessed with easy DPS and noninteractive support to add any meaningful variety to the roster.

[bq pd.2148]

On 2/16/2024 at 7:34 PM, Butterfly Kingdom.8349 said:

Mesmer

Mirage

• Phantom Razor: Increased the power coefficient from 0.8 to 1.0 in PvE only.
• Split Surge: Increased the power coefficient from 0.45 to 0.85 in PvE only.
• Mirage Thrust: Increased the power coefficient from 1.0 to 3.0 in PvE only.

would it be possible to also add a boost to the spear ambush: Ambush Assault into the list?

[elijah.1689]

On 2/16/2024 at 1:34 PM, Butterfly Kingdom.8349 said:

Druid

• Grace of the Land: This trait now applies might instead of alacrity in WvW and PvP.
• Natural Balance: This trait no longer reduces incoming strike damage. This trait now grants boon duration.
• Glyph of the Stars: Increased the cooldown of this skill from 48 seconds to 60 seconds in WvW and PvP. Reduced the number of conditions cleansed per pulse from 2 to 1 in WvW and PvP. Reduced the revival percentage from 12% to 8% in WvW only.

As a druid main (and commander in wvw) I have to say the incredible nerf to druid is disheartening (and I'm still salty about the removal of ancient seeds but that one I get a bit more). Sure it was overperforming a bit, but to remove alacrity and nerf healing spring and glyph of the stars essentially kills this class for wvw guild fighting. In order to maximize efficiency of a party and squad, we will have to look at only 3 classes for support since you have removed alacrity from both tempest and druid. Tempest/Druid/MKS do not bring alacrity or quickness, so how did you envision them being part of squad comps in wvw with these changes? Or was this intentional?

[Titan.7853]

On 2/25/2024 at 9:39 AM, Fifth.8169 said:

Critical Chance Issue: 

Can Power Guardian build please have access to critical chance? 35% of critical chance  is locked in to the radiance trait line;  its difficult to fully access. The first 10% crit - target must be burning. ok. However for  the second 25% you will need to have 100% uptime of resolution, which is technically possible but hampers gameplay forcing Radiance to always be paired with Virtues and taking Greatsword for symbol of resolution, while requiring you to press Healer's Resolution (from Radiance) off CD. This trait is not affected by alacrity, so technically when you guys lowered the CD for litany of Wrath from 25 to 20 seconds, Guardians no longer get this proc because 20 sec from trait and 16 sec from litany dont match up anymore.  

Weapon Issue

So from above, to have critical chance via  we must take resolution. To access the resolution power builds are forced to single weapon. That is Greatsword for skill number 4, Symbol of Resolution.  To make matters worse into being locked into great sword, in the Zeal trait line, power builds take the trait Zealous Blade. This trait adds 120 power, but yea you guessed it, you only get the 120 power by wielding Greatsword.  

These are really valid issues for power Guardian.  I spent hours over the past few days pouring over every single trait trying to figure out how to generate enough resolution and fury for my new build to crit.  You end up locked into not just traitlines, but just a few traits.  There need to be more options to self generate fury and resolution, not only for Willbender, but for Dragon Hunter as well.   It's very rigid, there's almost no flexibility.  To make matters worse, Guardians have the base health of a flea.  That means if you want to rely on fury alone to achieve 100% crit chance, and not striking burning foes while somehow maintaining 100% resolution uptime for 35% of that, you need to take a lot of Assassins' gear and Eagle/Ranger runes for the precision.  Only then you realize that you have 13.7k health, and you have very limited ability to self generate fury as a power build.

You could say Guardians can take utility skills like Stand Your Ground or Feel My Wrath for resolution and fury.  So what, I am a Dragon Hunter that can't take his traps just so I can generate enough resolution and fury to crit cap?  Why aren't these available through common traits?  I didn't realize how bad Guardians have it in this regard until I started playing with Warrior and Revenant.  I was like you have to be kidding me, I can take full Berskers gear, easily crit cap without worry, AND I have this much health?  I remember thinking, how can Guardian even be called Guardian with such little health?

I'd like to see you do a dedicated post about this in the Guardian forum, since this is a discussion about the patch notes.  Having just spent so much time on this problem myself, I just wanted to say that you are 100% correct here.

Edited February 29 by Titan.7853

[Batalix.2873]

6 hours ago, Titan.7853 said:

These are really valid issues for power Guardian.  I spent hours over the past few days pouring over every single trait trying to figure out how to generate enough resolution and fury for my new build to crit.  You end up locked into not just traitlines, but just a few traits.  There need to be more options to self generate fury and resolution, not only for Willbender, but for Dragon Hunter as well.   It's very rigid, there's almost no flexibility.  To make matters worse, Guardians have the base health of a flea.  That means if you want to rely on fury alone to achieve 100% crit chance, and not striking burning foes while somehow maintaining 100% resolution uptime for 35% of that, you need to take a lot of Assassins' gear and Eagle/Ranger runes for the precision.  Only then you realize that you have 13.7k health, and you have very limited ability to self generate fury as a power build.

You could say Guardians can take utility skills like Stand Your Ground or Feel My Wrath for resolution and fury.  So what, I am a Dragon Hunter that can't take his traps just so I can generate enough resolution and fury to crit cap?  Why aren't these available through common traits?  I didn't realize how bad Guardians have it in this regard until I started playing with Warrior and Revenant.  I was like you have to be kidding me, I can take full Berskers gear, easily crit cap without worry, AND I have this much health?  I remember thinking, how can Guardian even be called Guardian with such little health?

I'd like to see you do a dedicated post about this in the Guardian forum, since this is a discussion about the patch notes.  Having just spent so much time on this problem myself, I just wanted to say that you are 100% correct here.

Crit and boon capping should never have existed in this game, but I do agree that Guardian should be the tankiest of the three heavies. Unfortunately ever since FB it has only ever been about burning things and attacking, which is just...the worst design philosophy.

Edited February 29 by Batalix.2873

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

On 2/28/2024 at 1:27 AM, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I know, right? My guardian moves in an out of stealth while building malice to burst people down with a rifle at 1500 range so well that sometimes I can tell it from my necromancer. And my thief is so slow and blocks attacks for the whole party with big bubbles while opening divine tomes of holy judgment and healing. Your thief gets tomes too, right? That's way too much like the warrior's clones and phantasms. They're exactly the same I can't even tell them apart sometimes. Oh wait.... sorry I messed up. It's the ranger that gets the tomes of animal, plant, and fungus lore. Thief just gets to attune to different elements to change up their whole skillset based on what weapon they equip. My bad. These mechanics and gameplays are just too similar, and they have no recognizable class concept or flavor to them, so I can't remember which goes with which class.🙄

Lmao, What a clownish response.
How a class plays mechanically was never the point. You're clueless if you think otherwise. It's the tools those classes provides that becoming more standardized, more boring.

Why should I go though so many hoops as a elemantalist, channeling the powers of the elements to give players Quickness or alac, When I can do the very same thing on a warrior by spamming dragon slash to provide alac? Or playing Necromancer, and providing quickness via harb, just by staying near a group, something you're going to naturally do anyway. At that point, I might as well play warrior or other similar classes that can do these things, but in an easier way.

That's what you don't get. When you create a homogenized setting like this, then harder playstyle become less worth it, over an easier playstyle. The Reward of committing to a hard playstyle feels less rewarding, less enjoyable, and this alone create a very toxic environment for everyone else involve. It's not that hard to understand if you actually think beyond guardian lmao.

Edited March 1 by Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267

[Gaiawolf.8261]

28 minutes ago, Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267 said:

Lmao, What a clownish response.
How a class plays mechanically was never the point. You're clueless if you think otherwise. It's the tools those classes provides that becoming more standardized, more boring.

Why should I go though so many hoops as a elemantalist, channeling the powers of the elements to give players Quickness or alac, When I can do the very same thing on a warrior by spamming dragon slash to provide alac? Or playing Necromancer, and providing quickness via harb, just by staying near a group, something you're going to naturally do anyway. At that point, I might as well play warrior or other similar classes that can do these things, but in an easier way.

That's what you don't get. When you create a homogenized setting like this, then harder playstyle become less worth it, over an easier playstyle. The Reward of committing to a hard playstyle feels less rewarding, less enjoyable, and this alone create a very toxic environment for everyone else involve. It's not that hard to understand if you actually think beyond guardian lmao.

You're in the wrong game if you think classes are primarily defined by how well they can fulfill particular roles. Thankfully, GW2 identifies classes more by concept, theme, aesthetics (and colors lol), and play styles. It leans into their longstanding motto, "bring the player not the class," which is a main reason many of us play it over its competitors. 

As for discrepancies in class complexity, this is largely done so players of different skill levels and interest can find something they like. Some players prefer higher APM and interactions with skills, others prefer more paced, strategic use of skills. Under this design, there's a reasonable chance that if your group needs something, you can find a class that can fill the need with your preferred playstyle and intensity. 

Edited March 1 by Gaiawolf.8261

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

22 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

You're in the wrong game if you think classes are primarily defined by how well they can fulfill particular roles

That how it was during the base days. Each class has something unique and interesting that made them stand out. Granted, The base balancing has it flaws, But it was FAR better then this shitshow.

 

22 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Thankfully, GW2 identifies classes more by concept, theme, aesthetics (and colors lol), and play styles. It leans into their longstanding motto, "bring the player not the class," which is a main reason many of us play it over its competitors. 

Did you write this with Ai or something? If Concept, theme and aesthetics were the main reason people play gw2, no wonder the balancing have been garbage lately.

Gonna be frank with you, "Bring the player, Not the class" Is a very flawed logic, because the reality is, A player is going to be defined by the class they play. There is no if, or buts about it. The only way that logic applies, is when you're playing something skin to skyrim, and even in a game as big as skyrim, you're going to specialize in a area better than others, the most often one being the sneaky archer trap players keep falling into.

 

22 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

As for discrepancies in class complexity, this is largely done so players of different skill levels and interest You can find something they like. Some players prefer higher APM and interactions with skills, others prefer more paced, strategic use of skills.

But that doesn't explain why we have to resort to standardization to achieve that. Players are not going to go for the "High" APM playstyle because they want the same reward as mech engineer during it's busted hayday and could gives the same type of an reward for minimal effort. The ele community wouldn't be so jaded if that was the case.

 

22 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

under this design, there's a reasonable chance that if your group needs something, you can find a class that can fill the need with your preferred playstyle and intensity. 

By forcing these classes to accept those roles, because every option they had prior, was taken away for the sake of being alac/quickness bots. Awesome design.

Edited March 1 by Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267

[Gaiawolf.8261]

3 minutes ago, Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267 said:

That how it was during the base days. Each class has something unique and interesting that made them stand out. Granted, The base balancing has it flaws, But it was FAR better then this shitshow.

 

Did you write this with Ai or something? If Concept, theme and aesthetics were the main reason people play gw2, no wonder the balancing have been garbage lately.

Gonna be frank with you, "Bring the player, Not the class" Is a very flawed logic, because the reality is, A player is going to be defined by the class they play. There is no if, or buts about it. The only way that logic applies, is when you're playing something skin to skyrim, and even in a game as big as skyrim, you're going to specialize in a area better than others, the most often one being the sneaky archer trap players keep falling into.

 

But that doesn't explain why we have to resort to standardization to achieve that. Players are not going to go for the "High" APM playstyle because they want the same reward as mech engineer during it's busted hayday and could gives the same type of an reward for minimal effort. The ele community wouldn't be so jaded if that was the case.

 

By forcing these classes to accept those roles, because every option they had prior, was taken away for the sake of being alac/quickness bots. Awesome design.

Sorry it doesn't work for you. I have a blast jumping into my different toons and their play styles based on my mood, and not having to switch out depending on who else shows up. 

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

10 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Sorry it doesn't work for you. I have a blast jumping into my different toons and their play styles based on my mood, and not having to switch out depending on who else shows up. 

It's that kind of dismissive attitude I can't take seriously. I'm glad you're having fun, but this isn't about you or me. It's about how all these balancing decision make the game feel more bland and hollow as a result, and how it affect the players who want to play more than a casual level.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

2 hours ago, Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267 said:

It's that kind of dismissive attitude I can't take seriously. I'm glad you're having fun, but this isn't about you or me. It's about how all these balancing decision make the game feel more bland and hollow as a result, and how it affect the players who want to play more than a casual level.

Casual? I take my RP seriously! None of my characters or their builds are hollow or bland. No matter who I show up as, you be sure he or she is going to kick kitten! 

And it's not just me. Many many players choose this game for similar reasons over games that better cater to other players. Granted you won't find many of them on the forums, but you'll find them in game.

Good luck finding your GW2 groove or whatever game works best for you.

Edited March 1 by Gaiawolf.8261

[Zenith.7301]

Regardless of class uniqueness, creating this weapon creep without trying them to elite specs is just making a bunch of weapons obsolete.

Everyone knew mainhand sword for mesmer was going to be a dead weapon in PvE the moment they opened up virtuoso dagger for power builds. Not only does dagger have massively more clone generation, but it has range and does more damage anyways on top of reliable cleave.

Same applies to necro greatsword and revenant greatsword for power builds. The other weapons like necro dagger and axe, which were already deficient, now don't stand a prayer at being relevant power weapons for any other spec permutation after they opened the weapons up.

Choosing to skip on elite specs because they're clearly shortstaffed, as seen by the sheer amount of recycled animations or lack of any besides a reused color blob from another skill for the recent batch of weapons and some EOD elite specs like Vindicator will have consequences.

We need this game back to HoT shape.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

20 minutes ago, Zenith.7301 said:

We need this game back to HoT shape.

Do you remember what shape that was? I remember what shape that was. Wandering squads of mordrem assault teams. Champion modrem that could one-shot an ill-prepared squad. A jungle so hostile the actual map could kill you without any enemies around.

Don't get me wrong, it was good times. I'm a vet from GW1 where the idea of going solo was reserved for the brave or the insane. But GW2 sold itself on the solo experience, and so HoT got nerfed harder than mesmers get nerfed today (and that's borderline grape, with the hungarian silent g). It's a different player base they're catering to, and a different game because of it. A bottom of the barrel, one size fits all, mass market appeal kinda game.

[droidski.7293]

On 2/17/2024 at 4:34 AM, Butterfly Kingdom.8349 said:

 

Mesmer

Mirage

• Dune Cloak: This trait has been reworked. Gain Mirage Cloak when you shatter 2 or more clones.

 

Don't change Dune Cloak!

 

I have been using this trait from the start in WvW, in some ways it has been my ‘top secret’ build useful for roam/havok and zerg alike. If you are a front line mesmer, and not many are, you can strip/copy several boons per dodge in a small radius.  It's difficult to use this trait at times but the recent introduction of the shield and the return of the 2nd dodge has made this build viable and useful. In fact if it is removed, mirage will effectively have no real GM option for WvW group play, since the others will be clone dependent. The only other trait, Elusive Mind is possible, but is largely regarded as beyond useless since it only removes ‘1 condi’ per dodge. If there was a GM trait to modify and improve you should be targeting this one. 

 

The Dune Cloak trait was changed a while back so that it no longer prioritises stripping stab, I think this was a decent attempt to balance it, but now removing the trait completely doesn’t seem to make any real sense.  I can see you are lowering the boon strip as well with Null Field, why can't a similar change be done here instead of removing the trait completely.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

Honestly, I'm really tired of the bs you guys do. It's like you don't play this game at all and use darts to decide changes.
There's massive problem in wvw with boons and condies, they're far too strong and you don't touch it at all. Boons either need to be nerfed in effectivness (like prot needs to be max 20% instead of 33%, might stack either reduced from giving 30 power&condition to 10/15) or have max duration after which the same boons can't be reapplied for x seconds, same needs to be done with conditions.
Then you have problem speces like Willbender, Harbinger and even Catalyst, yet instead of nerfing them you either do nothing or even buff.
Let's add Teef as a whole bs class without real counters in roaming and no, "marked" isn't a solution in the slightest to the stealth problem. Daredevil and Deadeye need to pretty much whisper to enemy "hey, I go afk, you can kill me now", otherwise there's no actual way to do it in real scenario.
Yes, the more complex/difficult classes should have much higher reward.
You people really need go back to a drawing board and decide in what areas each class/spec should be strong/weak, right now it's kittenfest.
 

[Gendalfs.7521]

6 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

We need this game back to HoT shape.

Dont think gonna happen, but who knows. Maybe Throne and Liberty will flop so hard that NCsoft decides to pour some resources back in Anet.

[Marckan.9526]

On 2/27/2024 at 6:00 AM, Titan.7853 said:

Wrong.  Since when is Willbender a side node monster?  That's almost laughable.  Willbender is a highly mobile glass cannon roamer, it's not even a particularly great duelist.  In order to be decent as a duelist, you'd need take Valor instead of Virtues (at the cost of a lot of damage).  Willbender is dominating the meta right now?  Really?  In fact, both Core Shout Support and Dragon Hunter are better than Willbender right now.  Do you know what will make Willbender even more of a glass cannon?  Taking Heaven's Palm over Renewed Focus.

I have a better idea, if you are actually worried about a side node monster with a finisher,  "omg ANet please nerf Warrior, and remove their Battle Standard.  They are a side node monster with a fast finisher.  They are dominating the meta right now, and we can't let this continue."  To be clear, I am not in favor of it, but at least this statement would be more accurate.

Or how about we let ANet improve unused traits and skills, like this popular petition just requested, and see how it goes:

 

If people who complain about WB actually tried it out they would see that this guy is correct, but the majority of people complaining about X class never even bother to learn how they work in the first place.

How do people expect to win against something they don't understand?

This is the problem with all the "nerf X", it's most often a skill issue with a few exceptions (catalyst last summer etc).

[Tofu.1865]

Uhhhh Shortbow Engineer still hella underwhelming and useless
just make it a Condi support Weapon, Since they only have Pistol on their arsenal for Condi, dont tell me Mace... its weak af

Essence of Living Shadow should have Regeneration.
Essence of Liquid Wrath should be a Poison Field, not Fire.
Essence of Borrowed Time should be a projectile Finisher.

[Zenith.7301]

12 hours ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Dont think gonna happen, but who knows. Maybe Throne and Liberty will flop so hard that NCsoft decides to pour some resources back in Anet.

That crap is gonna flop. The western market is mroe or less done with crappy Korean grindfests who are all flash and no substance.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

You really didn't show any bias to Ele at all did you? 

 

[Tofu.1865]

On 2/17/2024 at 2:34 AM, Butterfly Kingdom.8349 said:

 

• Bunker Down: This trait now triggers when disabling an enemy instead of when critically striking. The mine now spawns at the enemy's location instead of near the player. Reduced the internal cooldown from 4 seconds to 1 second. Increased the mine power coefficient from 0.77 to 0.95. The bandage now cleanses a condition, and its base healing has been increased from 502 to 598.

 

Bunker Down's Mines should be affected by Gadgeteer too, like Throw Mine.

[Exalted Quality.8534]

No reaper nerfs in PvP when there's literally at least 4 in every single match is actually insane.