Forgotten Lore &/or Unused Threads

[Bobby Stein.3612]

👀

[mandala.8507]

16 minutes ago, Bobby Stein.3612 said:

👀

 

[HotDelirium.7984]

Anet be like: yes yes yes all that is very interesting. So anyways...

xD

[Kain Francois.4328]

Personally, I would love an Asura-centric story, which expands on the rivalry between Asura tech vs Jade Tech.

There is no way Phlunt and the Arcane Council don't have a rivalry with Joon and Xunlai Jade. Kaineng is directly cutting into the Rata Sums's market of golems and waypoints. Having the two giant technology behemoths of Tyria at each other's throats would be very funny.  I want Phlunt and Yao in the same room, flinging insults at each other, dissing each other's tech, with Tengu in the background just tired of it all.

An asura-themed expansion could also be a neat opportunity to delve into subject matter like the eternal alchemy, which should be a hot topic now that all the dragons are dead. What would Omadd's machine show?

A neat segue to tie it to the Cantha region could be the Asura reclaiming old land in the Depths of Tyria underneath Echovald and Kaineng, which is one of the places we meet them in Eye of the North. This would geographically locate them adjacent to Kaineng, allowing Map Zones with Asura Tech in the midst of Cantha. (Could even follow up with Ivan who is annoyed by Asura trespassing into their own tunnels.)

Most importantly, I think a concept like this would actually help the world of Guild Wars feel more interconnected. A big problem with SOTO and EOD is it feels isolated from the heart of Tyria itself. So having an actual crossover between Cantha and Central Tyria would help a lot for the immersion of Tyria's world.

Edited March 30 by Kain Francois.4328

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

repair the broken orrian fiery dragon sword already! repairman is alive!

 

[HotDelirium.7984]

1 hour ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

repair the broken orrian fiery dragon sword already! repairman is alive!

 

*The Pact struggling to deal with the elder dragons*

*Discovering the gold seal and the Orr ritual that cleanses the torment out of dragons*

*us just now remembering we had those things available after murdering the rest*

*kicks seal down the drain* 

<_<

>_>

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

5 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

*The Pact struggling to deal with the elder dragons*

*Discovering the gold seal and the Orr ritual that cleanses the torment out of dragons*

*us just now remembering we had those things available after murdering the rest*

*kicks seal down the drain* 

<_<

>_>

>.<

[Kalavier.1097]

17 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

*The Pact struggling to deal with the elder dragons*

*Discovering the gold seal and the Orr ritual that cleanses the torment out of dragons*

*us just now remembering we had those things available after murdering the rest*

*kicks seal down the drain* 

<_<

>_>

Being fair, didn't that ritual that freed minions from dragon influence only work... at that one altar? 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

17 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

*The Pact struggling to deal with the elder dragons*

*Discovering the gold seal and the Orr ritual that cleanses the torment out of dragons*

*us just now remembering we had those things available after murdering the rest*

*kicks seal down the drain* 

<_<

>_>

23 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Being fair, didn't that ritual that freed minions from dragon influence only work... at that one altar? 

In a serious light? Yeah, devs told us later outside of the game that the ritual required specific resources and geographic requirements that the Pact couldn't replicate. Implying that our test run of the ritual on the risen chicken was basically using up the entire reserves of it.

Bit of a shame since I feel that Siren's Landing / One Path Ends would have benefitted from reusing Arah map like Lake Doric / Head of the Snake did with Caudecus' manor (instead of creating out of thin air a massive reliquary network and destroying the river that Arah set up as being Orr's naval route to and from the capital city).

The ritual also didn't cleanse torment, but instead gave free will to the subject again, removing the brainwashing / will enslavement / however-you-define-it effect of dragon corruption. This is why when the Forgotten performed it on Kralkatorrik, it didn't work (at best, some headcanons out there use that ritual to explain his dual personality inside his, eh, body). Still, plenty of uses for it... if the Pact didn't waste their apparent one time use of it.

[HotDelirium.7984]

5 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

In a serious light? Yeah, devs told us later outside of the game that the ritual required specific resources and geographic requirements that the Pact couldn't replicate. Implying that our test run of the ritual on the risen chicken was basically using up the entire reserves of it.

Bit of a shame since I feel that Siren's Landing / One Path Ends would have benefitted from reusing Arah map like Lake Doric / Head of the Snake did with Caudecus' manor (instead of creating out of thin air a massive reliquary network and destroying the river that Arah set up as being Orr's naval route to and from the capital city).

The ritual also didn't cleanse torment, but instead gave free will to the subject again, removing the brainwashing / will enslavement / however-you-define-it effect of dragon corruption. This is why when the Forgotten performed it on Kralkatorrik, it didn't work (at best, some headcanons out there use that ritual to explain his dual personality inside his, eh, body). Still, plenty of uses for it... if the Pact didn't waste their apparent one time use of it.

My post was mainly jest. If they wanted to they could have reverse-engineered any part of that plot for the rest of the Elder Dragon saga but never chose to which is....unfortunate.

The pact commander definitely deserved the Joko speech about being monumentally stupid.

I do wonder what ever happened to the chicken and if it lived a normal life?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

2 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

My post was mainly jest.

I know, that's why I was more directly responding to Kavalier, and started my post with "in a serious light".

2 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

The pact commander definitely deserved the Joko speech about being monumentally stupid.

Eh, not at all. I mean, first off Joko was outright lying half the time, but more on topic, if the reason why the Pact didn't do it again was "they literally couldn't because of lacking resources", then it's not the Commander's fault at all.

Edited April 1 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[HotDelirium.7984]

11 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

I know, that's why I was more directly responding to Kavalier, and started my post with "in a serious light".

Eh, not at all. I mean, first off Joko was outright lying half the time, but more on topic, if the reason why the Pact didn't do it again was "they literally couldn't because of lacking resources", then it's not the Commander's fault at all.

Stupid in the sense of not fully critically thinking about the situation enough and its impact to try other options.

However, what I'm getting at is if there really was no other possible way to resolve the dragons and their torment or would it have been an escalating room filled with claymores mines that never slowed down eviscerating reality eventually?

Over what we got from IBS I'd take a half-baked stretch of them reverse-engineering the golden seal to do SOMETHING to the elder dragons.

Also where's the chicken?! lol

 

Edited April 1 by HotDelirium.7984

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 4/1/2024 at 8:43 AM, HotDelirium.7984 said:

Stupid in the sense of not fully critically thinking about the situation enough and its impact to try other options.

However, what I'm getting at is if there really was no other possible way to resolve the dragons and their torment or would it have been an escalating room filled with claymores mines that never slowed down eviscerating reality eventually?

Over what we got from IBS I'd take a half-baked stretch of them reverse-engineering the golden seal to do SOMETHING to the elder dragons.

Also where's the chicken?! lol

Well the ritual never solved anything about conflicting magic (read: torment) anyways. All it did was provide free will to those enslaved. This is why when the Forgotten tried it on Kralkatorrik off-screen it didn't work, resulting in the Forgotten all getting branded afterwards (thus their appearance in PoF and LWS4). So even if they could use it anywhere at any time, or somehow managed to lure the Elder Dragons to that tiny kitten platform in Arah, that wouldn't have worked on the remaining Elder Dragons anyways. Especially Jormag and Soo-Won, who held full free will at the start of their narratives.

And as End of Dragons and the Gen3 legendary weapons highlights, even if they were cleansed of torment, they were still evil (or at least aggressive to mortals) to begin with, so it wouldn't really solve a problem. Kralkatorrik still hunted down mortals for sport well before being afflicted with torment, and Jormag still drove a wedge between the Elder Dragons making them enemies (and wasn't even heavily affected by torment until halfway through Champions anyways). The only Elder Dragon that might have been good (or at least benevolent towards mortals) before torment aside from Soo-Won is possibly Primordus, and we can only say that due to the sheer lack of personality he and his legendaries' text has.

[HotDelirium.7984]

5 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Well the ritual never solved anything about conflicting magic (read: torment) anyways. All it did was provide free will to those enslaved. This is why when the Forgotten tried it on Kralkatorrik off-screen it didn't work, resulting in the Forgotten all getting branded afterwards (thus their appearance in PoF and LWS4). So even if they could use it anywhere at any time, or somehow managed to lure the Elder Dragons to that tiny kitten platform in Arah, that wouldn't have worked on the remaining Elder Dragons anyways. Especially Jormag and Soo-Won, who held full free will at the start of their narratives.

And as End of Dragons and the Gen3 legendary weapons highlights, even if they were cleansed of torment, they were still evil (or at least aggressive to mortals) to begin with, so it wouldn't really solve a problem. Kralkatorrik still hunted down mortals for sport well before being afflicted with torment, and Jormag still drove a wedge between the Elder Dragons making them enemies (and wasn't even heavily affected by torment until halfway through Champions anyways). The only Elder Dragon that might have been good (or at least benevolent towards mortals) before torment aside from Soo-Won is possibly Primordus, and we can only say that due to the sheer lack of personality he and his legendaries' text has.

This is where the lore gets a little underdeveloped. Soo-Won, mother of all creation had no concept of what she was creating? Did she even care about any of the other races? Did she create all the ones native to Tyria? Some of this might have been an analogy for bad parenting but that seems a bit basic for an epic high-fantasy franchise. Lots of shoehorning...

[shinkamalei.2574]

On 4/1/2024 at 5:43 AM, HotDelirium.7984 said:

Also where's the chicken?! lol

Perhaps it's going to become something along the lines of the unsuspicious rabbit or the mysterious gopher. xDDD

[DanAlcedo.3281]

4 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

This is where the lore gets a little underdeveloped. Soo-Won, mother of all creation had no concept of what she was creating? Did she even care about any of the other races? Did she create all the ones native to Tyria? Some of this might have been an analogy for bad parenting but that seems a bit basic for an epic high-fantasy franchise. Lots of shoehorning...

If you really look at it, what happened is really not that crazy. 

Soo-Won wanted to have her own little place is the vast multiverse. 

But she is no god. She needed a solid plan to get things going and keep things going. 

And what she did worked. Except for some details. Like not knowing that her kids would suffer from torment, them getting addicted to magic and it causing the dragon cycle. 

She simply set up a system that didn't work in the long run. 

On a multiverse level. This entire story is just a big "oops" moment. 

Edited April 3 by DanAlcedo.3281

[Kalavier.1097]

On 4/1/2024 at 8:43 AM, HotDelirium.7984 said:

Also where's the chicken?! lol

 

Presumably twitchy is still in the care of Warden Illyra.

[HotDelirium.7984]

3 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Presumably twitchy is still in the care of Warden Illyra.

i do appreciate that we can have an undead chicken mini at least xD

[HotDelirium.7984]

8 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

If you really look at it, what happened is really not that crazy. 

Soo-Won wanted to have her own little place is the vast multiverse. 

But she is no god. She needed a solid plan to get things going and keep things going. 

And what she did worked. Except for some details. Like not knowing that her kids would suffer from torment, them getting addicted to magic and it causing the dragon cycle. 

She simply set up a system that didn't work in the long run. 

On a multiverse level. This entire story is just a big "oops" moment. 

I can stomach the oops but the relationship between her and allegedly all the native races of Tyria is almost nonexistent. They missed that mark. Its great she decided to help Canthan humans out but does she give an F about the norn? The sylvarri (who are technically her dragon great-grandchildren)? Quaggan? Did she used to view humans as an invasive species?

[Kiof.5710]

Maybe we can find out what happened to the lions between GW1 and GW2?

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

16 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

This is where the lore gets a little underdeveloped. Soo-Won, mother of all creation had no concept of what she was creating? Did she even care about any of the other races? Did she create all the ones native to Tyria? Some of this might have been an analogy for bad parenting but that seems a bit basic for an epic high-fantasy franchise. Lots of shoehorning...

It is a bit shoehorned in due to the sudden retcon of turning the deep sea dragon from yet another evil dragon into a sad mother lamenting her dead evil children, moreso when she's only there for a single expansion with no proper screentime in that very expansion, but as to the initial question: she did not create them to be evil, but as mindless tools to ease the burden. Those tools became "children" to her mind, and developed personalities of their own over time, seemingly influenced by the domain of magic they were made to balance.

[shinkamalei.2574]

10 hours ago, Kiof.5710 said:

Maybe we can find out what happened to the lions between GW1 and GW2?

 

I wonder if they evolved into the sand lions in elona :oooooo altho thats legit rapid rapid evolution xD

[Kalavier.1097]

19 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

I can stomach the oops but the relationship between her and allegedly all the native races of Tyria is almost nonexistent. They missed that mark. Its great she decided to help Canthan humans out but does she give an F about the norn? The sylvarri (who are technically her dragon great-grandchildren)? Quaggan? Did she used to view humans as an invasive species?

It should be noted that her giving of the protective orbs to Kaineng city was a response to the direct pleas for aid from Kuunavang. 

8 hours ago, shinkamalei.2574 said:

I wonder if they evolved into the sand lions in elona :oooooo altho thats legit rapid rapid evolution xD

There are many species in Guild wars that are not immediately present within Gw2, but are still around. Among them being the range of horse breeds, dire wolves, and others. A good example is mount species as well.

Also just found this. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/f/fa/Stalker_(Crystal_Desert).jpg So yeah, regular Lions are around.

[HotDelirium.7984]

On 4/3/2024 at 11:37 AM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

It is a bit shoehorned in due to the sudden retcon of turning the deep sea dragon from yet another evil dragon into a sad mother lamenting her dead evil children, moreso when she's only there for a single expansion with no proper screentime in that very expansion, but as to the initial question: she did not create them to be evil, but as mindless tools to ease the burden. Those tools became "children" to her mind, and developed personalities of their own over time, seemingly influenced by the domain of magic they were made to balance.

ah, the good ol unforseen consequences. We have to infer A LOT and I don't love that for us.