Ranger and wvw

[Sansar.1302]

Ranger is realy underpreforming in wvw and it have been like this since the big power damage nerf a couple years ago.

Meanwile classes that are welcome in wvw grps have superior roaming options too like Willbender , Harbinger, Scrapper , and Catalyst.

😞

Edited February 28 by Sansar.1302
bad spelling

[Assuk.2157]

I've been in the game for 6 months, I like archers and for that reason I became a ranger, the problem I see is that in this game the rangers with bows are terrible. I see characters who, for example, have permanent stealth and don't nerf them, and in wvw I have sometimes seen 5 or 6 behind a thief with permanent invisibility and they don't lower it. I don't know what the solution would be with the ranger but it needs an urgent fix. I don't know if, for example, more ability to enter stealth and more damage with bows, I don't know the solution but it does need an urgent fix. Sorry for my English, I hope you understand what I'm saying.

[Chiral.8915]

Arrowcart ranger is the new meta didntchaknow? 😅

[Beddo.1907]

9 hours ago, Assuk.2157 said:

I've been in the game for 6 months, I like archers and for that reason I became a ranger, the problem I see is that in this game the rangers with bows are terrible. I see characters who, for example, have permanent stealth and don't nerf them, and in wvw I have sometimes seen 5 or 6 behind a thief with permanent invisibility and they don't lower it. I don't know what the solution would be with the ranger but it needs an urgent fix. I don't know if, for example, more ability to enter stealth and more damage with bows, I don't know the solution but it does need an urgent fix. Sorry for my English, I hope you understand what I'm saying.

Longbow (and some other skills) was nerfed repeatedly, because Rangers kept bursting players to 0 from mount. I doubt Anet is touching that one.

Stealth will never be on par with thief.

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

48 minutes ago, Beddo.1907 said:

Stealth will never be on par with thief.

Technically there's a way to stealth long enough for smokescale to have its f2 back up again. But its jumping through hoops to reach thief tiers of stealth. I'm okay with just having 15s maxed out stealth and just Ambushing someone to death.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

17 hours ago, Assuk.2157 said:

I've been in the game for 6 months, I like archers and for that reason I became a ranger, the problem I see is that in this game the rangers with bows are terrible.

LB/GS Untamed (Marks/BM/Untamed) with Signet of Hunt, Sic Em' and Speed Relic; mix of Marauder and Dragon.  Run Smokescale and Turtle.  Rotate between your GS block, your stealth, and your turtle bubble (both the actual bubble and the unleashed #3) when thief come in melee, and when they run LB them.  

You will counter DE's this way, as all the projectile hate they can't do anything.  That will leave just the core thieves (as haven't seen a roaming DD or Spectre in a bit); with core just watch to see if they the eldritch horror condi variant (with scepter) or just your usual P/D nonsense.  Either way, GS block + LB 2 charges (LB #5/barrage) will keep them out of melee range for the most part.

Also, if you see 2 thieves, or a thief and a +1 (like Harb, WB, DH, etc.) just kite troll them (run away or pretend to attack) as good gank duos are very tough to handle, even on bunker specs.  

Edited March 1 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Assuk.2157]

10 hours ago, Oahkahmewolf.6210 said:

Técnicamente, hay una manera de permanecer sigiloso el tiempo suficiente para que Smokescale vuelva a activar su f2. Pero es saltar a través de aros para alcanzar niveles de sigilo de ladrón. Estoy de acuerdo con tener 15 al máximo de sigilo y simplemente emboscar a alguien hasta la muerte.

Please, could you explain better what you are saying? I don't understand

[Assuk.2157]

12 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

El arco largo (y algunas otras habilidades) fue debilitado repetidamente, porque los Rangers seguían llevando a los jugadores a 0 desde la montura. Dudo que Anet esté tocando ese.

El sigilo nunca estará a la par del ladrón.

Although stealth is not on par with the thief, I think that the ranger in general needs some adjustments, improvements to escape and/or endure better.

Does the ranger lower others to 0 before? But what about the one who attacks with clones? Yesterday I came across one and in a single attack he took 24,000 of my life. It's just that I see the rangers as too unbalanced with respect to the rest of the classes. The ranger is far behind the rest. I apologize again for my English, it is very bad and I used a translator in some parts...

Edited March 1 by Assuk.2157

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

What if I told you Ranger can 100-0 people, unblockable, from stealth?

[Assuk.2157]

50 minutes ago, Remus Darkblight.1673 said:

What if I told you Ranger can 100-0 people, unblockable, from stealth?

If you go into stealth, hunt seal and when there is a siege and you all go together you use skill 5. But the ranger in general is not efficient, if you can kill some but if they know how to handle their characters, roaming for a ranger is giving away deaths. I would need to see a video of a wvw game from start to finish, without cuts, to see the efficiency of the ranger, roaming and compare with the rest of the classes. But for 90% of the rangers I see, they are free kills for the rest of the classes.

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

12 hours ago, Assuk.2157 said:

Please, could you explain better what you are saying? I don't understand

There's a way to indefinitely stealth but it requires tons of effort to accomplish it not even worth doing in a combat situation. The timing window is very small making it useless.

Edited March 1 by Oahkahmewolf.6210

[Arheundel.6451]

12 hours ago, Remus Darkblight.1673 said:

What if I told you Ranger can 100-0 people, unblockable, from stealth?

It feel like I have been spreading the overall terror of sic'em in wvw...but don't worry....the build fails against any adept player, couple of dodges or a willbender jumping on you

[Assuk.2157]

I don't understand how arena net doesn't realize this, that rangers with long or short bows have little efficiency and survival, especially the latter...while there are classes with a thousand ways to endure, dodge and kill and they don't nerf...
Less maces, less hammers and giving the ranger the fix he needs with bows and survival in combat

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

On 3/2/2024 at 1:20 AM, Arheundel.6451 said:

It feel like I have been spreading the overall terror of sic'em in wvw...but don't worry....the build fails against any adept player, couple of dodges or a willbender jumping on you

I'm not talking about sic'em soulbeast because you're right, rapid fire is easy to reaction dodge spam to evade half of it.

[Beddo.1907]

Longbow is just a good noob killer. Even someone dragged from PvE could use it to easily kill another player of the same skill.

On higher skill lvl it doesn't do much, no moblity aside from merge, nonexistent utility besides 3, 5 is basically unusable in a 1v1 and damage goes down in close range. There is literally nothing to work with to outplay someone, that doesn't boil down to them making a mistake.

[Mell.4873]

On 3/3/2024 at 12:23 AM, Assuk.2157 said:

I don't understand how arena net doesn't realize this, that rangers with long or short bows have little efficiency and survival, especially the latter...while there are classes with a thousand ways to endure, dodge and kill and they don't nerf...
Less maces, less hammers and giving the ranger the fix he needs with bows and survival in combat

Most of Rangers survivability is baked into their Traits. Very little of it is on skill, with Mace and Staff being the only ones (little on Greatsword to) 

Edited March 6 by Mell.4873

[anduriell.6280]

12 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Most of Rangers survivability is baked into their Trait. Very little of it is on skill, with Mace and Staff being the only ones (little on Greatsword to) 

Also longbow #3 but that skill sucks as you can go into cooldown with nothing if the target is not directly in front of you or you miss the target because terrain invisible block. 

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

On 3/6/2024 at 12:34 PM, anduriell.6280 said:

Also longbow #3 but that skill sucks as you can go into cooldown with nothing if the target is not directly in front of you or you miss the target because terrain invisible block. 

I mostly use it for stomping tbf

[Dadnir.5038]

On 3/6/2024 at 1:07 AM, Mell.4873 said:

Most of Rangers survivability is baked into their Traits. Very little of it is on skill, with Mace and Staff being the only ones (little on Greatsword to)

It really depend on what you mean by "survivability"... From my point of view:

• Greatsword: a 1000 range leap with an evade frame baked in, a block and 2 hard CC.
• Hammer: a few barrier sources, some CC as well as protection/weakness to reduce incoming damage.
• Longbow: stealth and a gap opener.
• Shortbow: an evade frame as well as control effects.
• Staff: Movement, sustain, protection, projectile hate and control effect.
• Axes: Weakness, projectile hate and control.
• Daggers: Slow (MH), Evade frame (OH) and control (OH)
• Maces: Sustain, control, barrier and defensive boons
• Sword: an evade frame and some amount of control.
• Warhorn: weakness and control
• Torch: nothing 😉

Then there are the utilities:

• Shout: "Guard!", "Protect me!"
• Signet: Signet of stone.
• Survival: Lightning reflexes
• Spirit: Stone spirit (AoE blind), Sun spirit (Aegis)
• Stance: Dolyak stance, Griffon stance.
• Cantrip: Forest's fortification.

Without forgeting the beast skills for soulbeast:

• General: Unflinching fortitude
• Devourer: Devourer retreat
• Smokescale: Smoke assault
• Bear: Defy pain

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Torch: nothing 😉

I hate this weapon, Please be something more than a fire damaging skill and aura/might generator.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

4 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

It really depend on what you mean by "survivability"... From my point of view:

• Greatsword: a 1000 range leap with an evade frame baked in, a block and 2 hard CC.
• Hammer: a few barrier sources, some CC as well as protection/weakness to reduce incoming damage.
• Longbow: stealth and a gap opener.
• Shortbow: an evade frame as well as control effects.
• Staff: Movement, sustain, protection, projectile hate and control effect.
• Axes: Weakness, projectile hate and control.
• Daggers: Slow (MH), Evade frame (OH) and control (OH)
• Maces: Sustain, control, barrier and defensive boons
• Sword: an evade frame and some amount of control.
• Warhorn: weakness and control
• Torch: nothing 😉

Then there are the utilities:

• Shout: "Guard!", "Protect me!"
• Signet: Signet of stone.
• Survival: Lightning reflexes
• Spirit: Stone spirit (AoE blind), Sun spirit (Aegis)
• Stance: Dolyak stance, Griffon stance.
• Cantrip: Forest's fortification.

Without forgeting the beast skills for soulbeast:

• General: Unflinching fortitude
• Devourer: Devourer retreat
• Smokescale: Smoke assault
• Bear: Defy pain

For me from competitive:

• Greatsword: a 1000 range leap with an evade frame baked in, a block and 2 hard CC.
  • Block is really your only survivability here if enemy isn't running unblockable; can get CC'd out of swoop as evade frame is at end and if you try landing hilt bash for a defensive CC you are most likely getting cleaved to death before it lands or shortly after; counterattack kick is ok for survivability if you kite right away
• Hammer: a few barrier sources, some CC as well as protection/weakness to reduce incoming damage.
  • None of that is going to save you at present; might be better once they update the hammer skill activation times, but right now it's too easy to dodge and is melee--so if you are caught by a ranged only possibly the untamed #5 glitch/trick will save you, otherwise going to die
• Longbow: stealth and a gap opener.
  • Fine only if used offensively.  If used defensively, that stealth is going to miss as hunter shot is VERY hard to land with someone porting on top of you or something, and PBS isn't even as good as barrage is for defense
• Shortbow: an evade frame as well as control effects.
  • Concussion shot is good defense, you aren't getting super far with #3 without something like speed relic--but overall shortbow might actually be best defensive weapon
• Staff: Movement, sustain, protection, projectile hate and control effect.
  • Will agree, but can get CC'd out of #3; rest is literally built for defense--and it mostly works except #4 isn't hitting anyone and #2 is useless.  So, it boils down to the wall and #3, have to outskill most times to use these correctly
• Axes: Weakness, projectile hate and control.
  • Nothing here is saving you defensively, not even whirling defense because it roots you
• Daggers: Slow (MH), Evade frame (OH) and control (OH)
  • Nothing here is saving you defensively, only reason we see D/D is healing trap is currently 'overperforming'
• Maces: Sustain, control, barrier and defensive boons
  • Yes to #4, no to everything else as the leap on #3 is super short making kiting with this set alone super difficult
• Sword: an evade frame and some amount of control.
  • Kiting is about all the weapon is good for outside +1's so, sure.  
• Warhorn: weakness and control
  • This ones ok, but because of the regen you can trait WH with and the weakness--#4 is useless for defense however
• Torch: nothing 😉
  • Right

• Shout: "Guard!", "Protect me!"
  • Protect me yes, no one uses Guard
• Signet: Signet of stone.
  • Yes
• Survival: Lightning reflexes
  • Not like you may think as it does damage, so you are getting revealed or proc'ing auras with it
• Spirit: Stone spirit (AoE blind), Sun spirit (Aegis)
  • I don't think anyone uses  these--effects aren't' doing anything spectacular 
• Stance: Dolyak stance, Griffon stance.
  • Yes
• Cantrip: Forest's fortification.
  • Yes, but with caveat of 90s CD if you use it purely defensively--you also forgot RaO as shout above, but don't worry everyone did as it's kitten

• General: Unflinching fortitude
  • Yes
• Devourer: Devourer retreat
  • I've seen this used once in like 1885 by a hipster named 'John "Sax" Bluesmith', he died shortly afterward
• Smokescale: Smoke assault
  • Not as you may think as it requires target so you are going at your enemy--as soon as that evade ends you die unless you use something else.  I would have agreed had they kept the KD with takedown but...
• Bear: Defy pain
  • Sure; I've seen I think 1 bear in sPvP and/or roaming WvW and I use it--but not for merging

You actually forgot the soulbeast leap skills, Untamed hate bubble, as well and smoke field--which above all are probably your hands down best defense/survival tools.  

But anyway, I actually agree with Mell for once.  The traits carry survivability far more than the weapons, from obvious like WS/NM to things like BM with superspeed on swap, GS CD's, regen on shout, etc.

Edited March 8 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Mell.4873]

6 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

It really depend on what you mean by "survivability"... From my point of view:

• Greatsword: a 1000 range leap with an evade frame baked in, a block and 2 hard CC.
• Hammer: a few barrier sources, some CC as well as protection/weakness to reduce incoming damage.
• Longbow: stealth and a gap opener.
• Shortbow: an evade frame as well as control effects.
• Staff: Movement, sustain, protection, projectile hate and control effect.
• Axes: Weakness, projectile hate and control.
• Daggers: Slow (MH), Evade frame (OH) and control (OH)
• Maces: Sustain, control, barrier and defensive boons
• Sword: an evade frame and some amount of control.
• Warhorn: weakness and control
• Torch: nothing 😉

Then there are the utilities:

• Shout: "Guard!", "Protect me!"
• Signet: Signet of stone.
• Survival: Lightning reflexes
• Spirit: Stone spirit (AoE blind), Sun spirit (Aegis)
• Stance: Dolyak stance, Griffon stance.
• Cantrip: Forest's fortification.

Without forgeting the beast skills for soulbeast:

• General: Unflinching fortitude
• Devourer: Devourer retreat
• Smokescale: Smoke assault
• Bear: Defy pain

They do exist don't get me wrong but compared to other classes we have nothing. Most of our projectile denials are hard to use and the invulnerabilities are even worse.

We don't have any Renewed Focus.

 

What we do have is passive traits like Rugged Growth and Beast/Pet swap utility like skills. (Natural Healing for Soulbeast)

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

7 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Natural Healing

Personally this is overdue for a rework in my eyes.

 

10 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

For me from competitive:

Agreed 100% but there's something things I like to point out here.

 

I honestly hate majority of the heals we have, I stop caring about Toll ugent because one single application of poison really kills the strength of tolls... its even worse with Demon Queen relic.

I honestly started relying more of Turtle bubble and healing spring because of wilderness survival, there's too much synergies with the traits.

-----------

For those who are not familiar with healing spring "strengths"

At first glance it may be if not the lowest healing skill in your arsenal, however 3 things that make this healing ability really strong!

It has condition cleansing, Regeneration and the biggest one a water field.

You can combo water fields with a leap or blast to get decent 1,300-1320 which you have plethora of finishers!

• Leap finisher Coefficient healing power is at 0.5 base value of 1,300
• Blasts finishers coefficient healing power at 0.2 while targeting up to 5 players within 240 range with base healing of 1320

Anything like swords which come with 2 leaps,  horn's blast and MH mace 1 blast. you can get a pretty 5280 healing on top of the 4920.

Now if you take Soul beast, Untamed or Druid you're looking probably total of 12k to 16k give or take what spec you are rolling with + not to consider healing power in the equation can push it extra 2k.

Alot of the weapons you listed, Like MH mace, Swords, even Dagger  can utilize this in more ...I guess healing perspective.... would you even consider this defensive at this point?

Regardless, majority of the weapons that have those finishers are very valuable with the kit ranger has and having a water field increases Ranger's survival significantly or at-least with my experience I had better results using Healing spring vs other.

Moving on to spec

---------

Soul-beast wolf family has 2 leaps built into its merge... not to mention if your running ferocious pet you can get a 3rd leap on top of that.

There's a list of pets that have blast or leaps finishers but Canines come to mind to having the most.

 

Druid you have CA which lunar impact is a blast finisher and heals you are within the vacinity + CA is nothing but decent sustain for ranger.
Glyph of the starts is a bigger version of Healing spring so you can really just sit and blast and leap in the fight

 

Untamed - F2 Pet unleash is a blast finisher

Lizard family tail swipe is a blast finisher (it difficult to pull off because of timing but it is possible, I've toyed around with it occasionally as an experiment but I always preferred other pets)

-------

Traits - Clarion call is a blast, I've seen ranger's use this sometimes to get a huge burst of heal and some cases stealth.

Utilities - Stone and Frost spirit ... they blast and surprisingly come out faster ... this is generally good for GvG in my experiences... i started getting into Druid for GvG .... I've been liking it alot.

 

Anyways thought I share this with you guys, I know some people have fought me previously in WvW or dueled me or came across me in Spvp, people who have fought me can tell you how much I abuse the crap of healing spring... its also because most of my builds are pure melee which tend to have a lot of leaps and blasts, so Ranged Rangers might not necessarily see the value of it. 

Edited March 9 by Oahkahmewolf.6210

[Dawdler.8521]

15 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

It really depend on what you mean by "survivability"... From my point of view:

• Greatsword: a 1000 range leap with an evade frame baked in, a block and 2 hard CC.
• Hammer: a few barrier sources, some CC as well as protection/weakness to reduce incoming damage.
• Longbow: stealth and a gap opener.
• Shortbow: an evade frame as well as control effects.
• Staff: Movement, sustain, protection, projectile hate and control effect.
• Axes: Weakness, projectile hate and control.
• Daggers: Slow (MH), Evade frame (OH) and control (OH)
• Maces: Sustain, control, barrier and defensive boons
• Sword: an evade frame and some amount of control.
• Warhorn: weakness and control
• Torch: nothing 😉

Then there are the utilities:

• Shout: "Guard!", "Protect me!"
• Signet: Signet of stone.
• Survival: Lightning reflexes
• Spirit: Stone spirit (AoE blind), Sun spirit (Aegis)
• Stance: Dolyak stance, Griffon stance.
• Cantrip: Forest's fortification.

Without forgeting the beast skills for soulbeast:

• General: Unflinching fortitude
• Devourer: Devourer retreat
• Smokescale: Smoke assault
• Bear: Defy pain

Yeah I assumed he meant more about how one build rather than weapons and skills. Because it's quite noticable. I've seen rangers facetank pretty much anything with insane sustain. 

Then when I'm on my hunters call downright abusive condi puker even if it's in condi bunker gear... it's like wearing bloody berserkers. 3200+ armor is literally not doing anything, enemies cut through you like it's butter because your traits and skills are all aimed at that bomb. You make up for it with a slight smile when you see enemy hp bars drop like a rock (extra laughs for them approaching on mount) and I think the highest I've seen so far in terms of PvE damage is about 18000 poison tick and 10000 bleed tick on a tower lord, but still.

[Dadnir.5038]

11 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Hammer: a few barrier sources, some CC as well as protection/weakness to reduce incoming damage.

• None of that is going to save you at present; might be better once they update the hammer skill activation times, but right now it's too easy to dodge and is melee--so if you are caught by a ranged only possibly the untamed #5 glitch/trick will save you, otherwise going to die

I won't comment on everything because I do think this single quote most of the things you easily dismiss for other skills/weapon.

So here we go: "Necromancer's whole defensive system revolve around those few things that you dismiss in this single weaponset and yet the playerbase tend to find them to meaty."

The point is that ranger is packed full with defensive tools (objectively the ranger have already more of those than most professions, it's only somewhat lacking when facing conditions). Whether those tools are used by the player with the specific purpose of defense or offense isn't a problem of balance or lack of readily available tools but a problem of player gameplay. As it stand, even if the devs where to put more defensive tools into the ranger's skill kit, the player would still favor the offensive tools or the use of those tools to increase their offensive potential.