Big Fail! Pistol is the worst weapon.

[Stronger.8273]

the gameplay sucks! Condi damage is not that good! when are we gonna have something easy to play without a big rotation and fun gameplay the animations are so bad and lack of creativity 

for me all the weapons for Elementalist are bad now! sword lacks range! staff is the worst weapon!  Dagger is a joke! Scepter could have a better improvement on some elements and a better damage ramp-up, the nerfed Hammer is just dead

THE pistol was promised to give us better gameplay and a good damage burst but the damage is so bad in Open World Primary attack is too slow, and some skills have big Cds, on raids it feels like a cheap weapon! I rather use the Sword  than this clumsy pistol  if devs don't want us to deal decent DPS they should just delete this class from the game 

 

[Doctor Hide.6345]

So, what I hear you saying is you want Engineer shortbow instead because the weapon is so bad. Got it. Also, according to some the pistol is doing about 44k dps which is pretty good. So realistically if the numbers are true, it is dong more dps than the sword atm. 🙂 So, it is not cheap at all.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

Just now, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

So, what I hear you saying is you want Engineer shortbow instead because the weapon is so bad. Got it. Also, according to some the pistol is doing about 44k dps which is pretty good. So realistically if the numbers are true, it is dong more dps than the sword atm. 🙂 So, it is not cheap at all.

imagine defining whether a weapon is good based on a benchmark on a standing golem 💀

[Stronger.8273]

2 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

So, what I hear you saying is you want Engineer shortbow instead because the weapon is so bad. Got it. Also, according to some the pistol is doing about 44k dps which is pretty good. So realistically if the numbers are true, it is dong more dps than the sword atm. 🙂 So, it is not cheap at all.

go to play with it! and see if u can get the 44k dps 

[Doctor Hide.6345]

2 minutes ago, Mini Crinny.6190 said:

imagine defining whether a weapon is good based on a benchmark on a standing golem 💀

Imagine defining if a weapon is good or bad based on fickle emotional feelings which have no bearing in actual logic.  💀

[Doctor Hide.6345]

1 minute ago, Stronger.8273 said:

go to play with it! and see if u can get the 44k dps 

And I plan too. I am currently working on getting the rotations down to memory because I do enjoy the weapon. 🙂 I am not saying it is an easy weapon, but it is a weapon I can stand behind.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

6 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

Imagine defining if a weapon is good or bad based on fickle emotional feelings which have no bearing in actual logic.  💀

Yeah, this just proves you don't really have any understanding but let me explain so you can understand.

 

if we are looking at golems, then Ele has always had strong benchmarks, this is true, however, if we are talking about actual end game content like Raids or Fractals, then other classes can do similar damage with less effort, this makes Ele less viable, Pistol doesn't change that at all.  least to say that they haven't really gone all out on Pistol either, there is zero imagination, zero creativity and zero thought into it.

 

I forgot to add that other classes have access to more boons or CC as well without losing any dps

Edited March 2 by Mini Crinny.6190

[Doctor Hide.6345]

7 minutes ago, Mini Crinny.6190 said:

Yeah, this just proves you don't really have any understanding but let me explain so you can understand.

 

if we are looking at golems, then Ele has always had strong benchmarks, this is true, however, if we are talking about actual end game content like Raids or Fractals, then other classes can do similar damage with less effort, this makes Ele less viable, Pistol doesn't change that at all.  least to say that they haven't really gone all out on Pistol either, there is zero imagination, zero creativity and zero thought into it.

     I do have understanding. I know golem benchmarks isn't everything, but it shows the potential of the weapon. I don't care if other professions have it easier. I really kitten don't. I think that is a personal cop out answer a lot give here. If you don't want to put forth the work, then you shouldn't play the profession. Go play the easier ones. There are still people here who like the challenge of learning it. Because it is possible to achieve those numbers. It just takes more work which I am ok with. You are acting like it is not possible at to even reach even close to those numbers.

    As for the actual pistol itself, I am not saying it is perfect because I think the Bullet UI needs some work to make it easier to see, but overall I am happy with it.

Edited March 2 by Doctor Hide.6345

[Mini Crinny.6190]

5 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

     I do have understanding. I know golem benchmarks isn't everything, but it shows the potential of the weapon. I don't care if other professions have it easier. I really kitten don't. I think that is a personal cop out answer a lot give here. If you don't want to put forth the work, then you shouldn't play the profession. Go play the easier ones. There are still people here who like the challenge of learning it. Because it is possible to achieve those numbers. It just takes more work which I am ok with. You are acting like it is not possible at to even reach even close to those numbers.

    As for the actual pistol itself, I am not saying it is perfect because I think the Bullet UI needs some work to make it easier to easy, but overall I am happy with it.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028641112564432938/1213296741441478666/the-popularity-of-professions-in-raids-v0-uirjna9bohb81.webp?ex=65f4f5a5&is=65e280a5&hm=66dba8f59dd14f0215dbc304a660711672cf3bf5cca4a496ea872bc0f9d1f12a&

 

This was 2 years ago so it's a little outdated (I also can't open the site to get a more recent one for some reason) but what you see is people are just leaving the class because either they want an easier time, or no one wants an Ele in the group, Just because it's possible to achieve these numbers doesn't mean people will take you on in a group, because another class can do these numbers with less effort and minimal skill, people want to do content as quickly and easily as possible, Elementalist requires the player to be good as well as the group to babysit the ele basically

[Doctor Hide.6345]

2 hours ago, Mini Crinny.6190 said:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028641112564432938/1213296741441478666/the-popularity-of-professions-in-raids-v0-uirjna9bohb81.webp?ex=65f4f5a5&is=65e280a5&hm=66dba8f59dd14f0215dbc304a660711672cf3bf5cca4a496ea872bc0f9d1f12a&

 

This was 2 years ago so it's a little outdated (I also can't open the site to get a more recent one for some reason) but what you see is people are just leaving the class because either they want an easier time, or no one wants an Ele in the group, Just because it's possible to achieve these numbers doesn't mean people will take you on in a group, because another class can do these numbers with less effort and minimal skill, people want to do content as quickly and easily as possible, Elementalist requires the player to be good as well as the group to babysit the ele basically

     I am never worried about that. I have no problem telling people to kitten off a cliff before I move onto the next group if it ever happens. And for the record, it has not happened to me at all yet, so I am not worried about it at all. 

Edited March 2 by Doctor Hide.6345

[Stronger.8273]

the based logic is the burst damage that is not good for open world, raids, fractals and strikers if u are good at hitting a static golem good for you!  is not the same damage in a real encounter with a raid boss 

[Doctor Hide.6345]

1 minute ago, Stronger.8273 said:

the based logic is the burst damage that is not good for open world, raids, fractals and strikers if u are good at hitting a static golem good for you!  is not the same damage in a real encounter with a raid boss 

     Here is the thing. Even if the damage is low, and all the tests I saw were inaccurate, I am still not worried because that is the condi dps weapon now. So, they will buff it until it is good if that is the case because they want to make scepter the power ranged weapon. That leaves only really pistol for the condi ranged. Might be bad now, but that is easily fixed with number tweaks.

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Mini Crinny.6190 said:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028641112564432938/1213296741441478666/the-popularity-of-professions-in-raids-v0-uirjna9bohb81.webp?ex=65f4f5a5&is=65e280a5&hm=66dba8f59dd14f0215dbc304a660711672cf3bf5cca4a496ea872bc0f9d1f12a&

 

This was 2 years ago so it's a little outdated (I also can't open the site to get a more recent one for some reason) but what you see is people are just leaving the class because either they want an easier time, or no one wants an Ele in the group, Just because it's possible to achieve these numbers doesn't mean people will take you on in a group, because another class can do these numbers with less effort and minimal skill, people want to do content as quickly and easily as possible, Elementalist requires the player to be good as well as the group to babysit the ele basically

I can't say I've ever been kicked from a group or refused entry on the basis that I play elementalist.  The play rate is low and it isn't hard to tell why, but it's not like you can't perform perfectly well on ele.  Condi scepter tempest is completely faceroll and it does just fine.

On pistol I can see the potential, but the animations and feel suck.  What even is that air evade? It looks like you just fast walk 5 feet.  Lame.

[Ragnarox.9601]

11 hours ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

     I do have understanding. I know golem benchmarks isn't everything, but it shows the potential of the weapon. I don't care if other professions have it easier. I really kitten don't. I think that is a personal cop out answer a lot give here. If you don't want to put forth the work, then you shouldn't play the profession. Go play the easier ones. There are still people here who like the challenge of learning it. Because it is possible to achieve those numbers. It just takes more work which I am ok with. You are acting like it is not possible at to even reach even close to those numbers.

    As for the actual pistol itself, I am not saying it is perfect because I think the Bullet UI needs some work to make it easier to see, but overall I am happy with it.

I dare you to use pistol in wvw and pvp and tell me how it goes 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[CafPow.1542]

11 hours ago, Mini Crinny.6190 said:

then other classes can do similar damage with less effort

This really never gets old huh?

reroll then?

>“nooo i’d rather wanna make ele like the others reee!“

[Infinity.2876]

The issue with pistol as I see it is that the bullets are too easy to block/reflect and prevent from gaining bullets which are a key mechanic. Also bullets last for one skill and are immediately taken away meaning that every other shot has a lesser effect. Additionally, each bullet can only be consumed in its respective element meaning that weaver is weakened if he doesn't use his dual attack before switching and a whole lot of brain games ensue. Even tempest, who is best suited for staying in one element needs the ability to swap to water to selfheal.

I propose that if bullets were to be added to the aa while keeping the spending bullets on the same skills then it would allow it to be more viable in competitive game modes. You would also need to adjust the maximum bullets to be 3 and get different effects for the amount. Example:

Spoiler

Fire 2 (raging rocket): gain 1 stack of raging rocket effect per 2 bullets spent to a maximum of 6 bullets. Lower the coef to 2 or 3 percent per stack

One additional step would be to make bullets universal. Now don't get me wrong I don't want to remove the unique elemental bullets, but they should be able to be used for other elements. So, a change could be made so that the bullets have an effect unique to the bullet. For example, fire bullet could increase your condition dmg by 2% when spent or water bullet could siphon health when spent. And then you would rework the skills accordingly.

If you want to keep the "fire bullet is used in fire attunement" you could count the fire bullet as 2 when spent for a fire skill.

This way the pistol would be generally buffed, and we could return to our normal playstyle of changing attunements to fit the situation. Not having to be limited by what kind of bullet we have, and weaver would be usable.

[FrozenEve.6875]

1 hour ago, CafPow.1542 said:

This really never gets old huh?

reroll then?

>“nooo i’d rather wanna make ele like the others reee!“

I feel like this is slightly reductive. It's clear many ele players play ele because of the class fantasy. Asking them to reroll defeats the whole purpose of why they were drawn to elementalist originally. 

It isn't unreasonable to be asking for a simple variant of an elementalist playstyle given the breadth of opportunity the design team has had for new weapons and elite specialisations. 

Edited March 2 by FrozenEve.6875

[Feger.3504]

I liked the pistol but it doesn't give enough dmg i'm struggling to kill a doliak on wvw now imagine a player.

[Terminsel.5728]

16 hours ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

And I plan too. I am currently working on getting the rotations down to memory because I do enjoy the weapon. 🙂 I am not saying it is an easy weapon, but it is a weapon I can stand behind.

I wouldn't bother. There's no way they don't nerf it in the next balance pass, if not much sooner. Ele is only allowed to be Celestial competitive mode annoyance, and basically nothing else in this game these days. Because it's the jack of all trades, in some ways, it's blocked from being the master of any one thing. In PvE, Quick and Alac are more flexible and easier on multiple other classes, and DPS requires above normal rotations and perfect conditions to maintain. God forbid you dodge a mechanic. There goes 10k deeps!

[Jski.6180]

16 hours ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

So, what I hear you saying is you want Engineer shortbow instead because the weapon is so bad. Got it. Also, according to some the pistol is doing about 44k dps which is pretty good. So realistically if the numbers are true, it is dong more dps than the sword atm. 🙂 So, it is not cheap at all.

I would love the eng Sbow its a very powerful wepon in large combat so wvw and some pve but its an kit filling one roll it may not work so well with ele unless they gave it 5 skill per atument making is unbelievably strong on ele. Pistol is looking like the worst wepon of this set BUT is stronger then dagger MH kind of telling you the state of the ele class.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

7 hours ago, Ragnarox.9601 said:

I dare you to use pistol in wvw and pvp and tell me how it goes 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

     I never said it was good in those modes. I am talking purely PvE here. Not every weapon designed is good in every mode here, so it if it bad in PvP and WvW, my response is so what? I don't really care for those modes. I only really care for the PvE side of things. /shrug

[Tinker.6924]

On 3/1/2024 at 8:08 PM, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

Also, according to some the pistol is doing about 44k dps which is pretty good

I went looking for evidence of this and found a YouTube vid with that

1. The vid is 95% him blasting away on a training golem and in only the last bit does he show his gear and build. Didn't see any explanation of his rotation. 

2. The guy used a condi weaver build

3. Same guy has recorded vids of condi weaver builds with different weapons and some weapon combos do better than the pistol and some do worse.  Pistol has at best slightly above average dps compared to his other stuff. 

Edited March 3 by Tinker.6924
Correcting the autocorrect fails

[Doctor Hide.6345]

4 minutes ago, Tinker.6924 said:

I went looking for evidence of this and found a YouTube vid with that

1. The vid is 95% him blasting away on a training golem and in only the last bit does he show his gear and build. Didn't see any explanation of his rotation. 

2. The guy used as condi weaver build

3. Same guy has recorded vids of condi weaver builds with different weapons and some weapon combos do better than the pistol and some do worse.  Pistol has at best slightly above average dose compared to his other stuff. 

     That's good to know it exists at least. I was already planning to use it on condi weaver since I find that version most fun, so that part is good news to me at least. I am ok though with slightly above average with pistol. As long as it is not doing like 35k dps, I will be happy with it.

[wolfyrik.2017]

What's really bizarre about the design, is that it would work really well on a two-handed weapon. It feels bad because it's only half of a weapon. Air 3 for example would be great if you had 2 other bullet generating skills to pick from in air. As it stands it's completely worthless. If Anet had given people what they wanted, with these mechanics, it probably wouldn't have been so god-awful.

[Ace.1784]

My first use of pistol, I hated it and it was weird. However, I start running it around (this is open world btw) and it's pretty strong. There's a massive DPS difference between my early play of just trying random things and to the rotation I typically use now. All in all, I'm okay with it. I'm playing it with catalyst currently, since Weaver felt a little weird.