Why do guild leaders see when I am invisible online?

[Shirlias.8104]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

There should be the possibility to check if every member is representing ( at least for the guild where represent is a rule ).

I 100% disagree with this. Representing a guild is not necessary anymore since Influence was deleted. There is 0 reason to have a rep rule. If a guild is as good as the people running it say, people will rep it.

This is your point of view.If i do create a guild with rules, and among these there's the representing the guild, i want to be able to check if those who decided to join are respecting or not the rules.

You don't like the rules?You don't join that specific guild.

Your rules are opposite to game desing. We can be members of 5 guilds at the same time which means by design we are allowed by game dev to benefit from them and swap represent on the fly. Your 100% represent rule is abusive and what is worrying you want to spy on players whether they represent all the time. I think this type of behaviour when you harass a player for using in game tools the way they are intended to be used can be reported and punished if enough players start to report abusive guild leaders on daily basis.

Nope, since

• Game started with influence
• We do have a way to check if a member of the guild is representing or not, regardless he's invisible or online.

So i don't have any problems and i am glad to repeat what i stated before.You don't like rules? Don't Join ( i wouldn't say leave, because any smart players will check before join something ).You don't like fractals? Don't play emYou don't like competitive modes? Don't play emYou want gemstore items? Buy em.

Easy as hell.

And ofc if a reminder doesn't help you to find an answer within you, a gkick could be a solution.Really, i can't stand selfish people at all.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

Game started with influence

and evolved during years :)

We do have a way to check if a member of the guild is representing or not, regardless he's invisible or online.

It's an oversight on invisible status and goes beyond guilds.

You don't like rules? Don't Join

You can create a rule that your guild is for elephants only and yet game doesn't support your requirements.

You can create a rule on LFG that only white cats are allowed and yet you have no tools to enforce it.

Game design and dev ideas are above your rules in every way :)

Really, i can't stand selfish people at all.

So how do you stand yourself?

[Holykitten.3064]

@Shirlias.8104 said:And ofc if a reminder doesn't help you to find an answer within you, a gkick could be a solution.Really, i can't stand selfish people at all.

Not wanting to be social sometimes is hardly selfish. It’s very ok to not be in the best of moods interacting with other people, which is what the whole thread is about. Not a “I joined a very active guild and don’t like it” but “I like it, I’m just not in the mood today.”Quit blowing it out of proportion.

Being a bit military about rep/offline appearance is a bit out of whack though, especially on members that have either explained why they’re not repping/offline, or are indeed usually an active social person.“Sometimes” is a long word, but it’s commonly used, so you should know what it means.

[Shirlias.8104]

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:And ofc if a reminder doesn't help you to find an answer within you, a gkick could be a solution.Really, i can't stand selfish people at all.

Not wanting to be social sometimes is hardly selfish. It’s very ok to not be in the best of moods interacting with other people, which is what the whole thread is about. Not a “I joined a very active guild and don’t like it” but “I like it, I’m just not in the mood

today

.”

As you can see the problem was not that he was insulted or forced to do something, instead he was simply asked.And since he was invisible he wondered why they were able to see him.

He's not in the mood today?It is something which happens sometimes, to everybody.

Then he will simply have to deal with his guildies, though i find hard that representing will hurt the player itself.He will simply play on his own, rejecting the guild's proposals.

But as said before, it has nothing to do with representing or not.About representing, you can simply chose the guild you join, and eventually accept if they have that specific rule.

[Holykitten.3064]

@Shirlias.8104 said:

But as said before, it has nothing to do with representing or not.About representing, you can simply chose the guild you join, and eventually accept if they have that specific rule.

And this was your first post in this thread;

@Shirlias.8104 said:There should be the possibility to check if every member is representing ( at least for the guild where represent is a rule ).Exploiting with invisible mode should be avoided.

However, they should allow guilds to set or not this option in order to preserve the privacy of the player.

Right.

[Westenev.5289]

Being militant is just another way of showing you care - to a degree, of course. Every guild I've been in that has lost its "militant" streak has lost its identity. Core players quit, and are replaced by half-reppers who never talk but are always there. Durring this transition, you'd see less people wanting to help others and more people acting in self interest. At some point, self interest simply becomes the norm, and you simply stop caring for anyone in the guild.

So, I agree with Shirlias. I hate selfish guildies.

[Shirlias.8104]

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

But as said before, it has

nothing

to do with representing or not.About representing, you can simply chose the guild you join, and eventually accept if they have that specific rule.

And this was your first post in this thread;

@Shirlias.8104 said:There should be the possibility to check if every member is representing ( at least for the guild where represent is a rule ).Exploiting with invisible mode should be avoided.

However, they should allow guilds to set or not this option in order to preserve the privacy of the player.

Right.

It is related.The fact that guilds have that option it's also meant to check members ( and so, if they are representing or not ).The fact you, as guild or player, decide to use this option for that purpose or not it's on your own.

My point is that you can't join a guild with specific rules and then complain about those.Better check the rules and decide if it's the guild which fits for you, or also leave the guild when you find out that you can't stand the rules.

I never had any problems when i was not in the mood ( if i were asked to do something i simply rejected it ).

[Holykitten.3064]

@Westenev.5289 said:Being militant is just another way of showing you care - to a degree, of course. Every guild I've been in that has lost its "militant" streak has lost its identity. Core players quit, and are replaced by half-reppers who never talk but are always there. Durring this transition, you'd see less people wanting to help others and more people acting in self interest. At some point, self interest simply becomes the norm, and you simply stop caring for anyone in the guild.

So, I agree with Shirlias. I hate selfish guildies.

It’s funny you don’t see the irony of people militantly wanting people to be social for a guild, and calling them selfish.A guild leader obviously wants their guild to be good, that in itself is selfish, because they run the guild.

But again, the OP has every right to how he wants to play on a daily basis, as do people who run the guild they are in. Neither are selfish if both are.

[Shirlias.8104]

Actually i was talking about selfish players, not guilds ( even though i can pretty follow what you have said Weste )

If a guild is selfish it will only be a group of players with common interests which need a group to be achieved ( raids and fractals IE ).What i was talking about are players who want to remain in a specific guild for specific reasons, but they don't accept all the rules the guild may have.

[Westenev.5289]

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@Westenev.5289 said:Being militant is just another way of showing you care - to a degree, of course. Every guild I've been in that has lost its "militant" streak has lost its identity. Core players quit, and are replaced by half-reppers who never talk but are always there. Durring this transition, you'd see less people wanting to help others and more people acting in self interest. At some point, self interest simply becomes the norm, and you simply stop caring for anyone in the guild.

So, I agree with Shirlias. I hate selfish guildies.

It’s funny you don’t see the irony of people militantly wanting people to be social for a guild, and calling

them

selfish.A guild leader obviously wants their guild to be good, that in itself is selfish, because they run the guild.

But again, the OP has every right to how he wants to play on a daily basis, as do people who run the guild they are in. Neither are selfish if both are.

What's ironic about wanting to share a good time?

Everyone has a different definition of a good time. Some people like their space, some people want you to be in their face. This is, I feel, the core topic of this thread - a community driven problem we want Anet to magically awnser.

[Galmac.4680]

You can still be seen as yellow dot on the map, I noticed that once in our guild hall.But you can try this: Set your status to offline and switch to your bank guild. Then nobody should see you if not running beside you.

[Holykitten.3064]

@Westenev.5289 said:Being militant is just another way of showing you care - to a degree, of course. Every guild I've been in that has lost its "militant" streak has lost its identity. Core players quit, and are replaced by half-reppers who never talk but are always there. Durring this transition, you'd see less people wanting to help others and more people acting in self interest. At some point, self interest simply becomes the norm, and you simply stop caring for anyone in the guild.

So, I agree with Shirlias. I hate selfish guildies.

“half-repper”, someone who floats about, doesn’t really talk, goes from guild to guild, right? The only difference between them and those “core members” you like so much is time. Give them a reason to get to know you, build up a rapport. Then they turn into core members. Part of building that rapport, is patience, understanding and enjoying each other’s company.Now, giving rules on friendship (100% rep or kick), makes some people stand-off and distant. The best run guilds are the ones who have leaders with good people management skills. Very few 100% rep guilds have those people leading them, but very many social guilds with 0 rules have great leaders.

My guild has 1 rule, don’t be a ****. (Insert whichever expletive you like)

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Galmac.4680 said:You can still be seen as yellow dot on the map, I noticed that once in our guild hall.But you can try this: Set your status to offline and switch to your bank guild. Then nobody should see you if not running beside you.

Going to test it today :)

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

Ultimately, it doesn't matter why someone wants to be online and invisible; it matters only whether (a) it's possible and (b) if not, why does ANet offer something called "invisible" for status. Let's try to avoid spending too much time on the motivation, when the OP was primarily interested in how the mechanic works (or specifically: why it doesn't work as one would expect from a plain English reading of the word "invisible").

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Ultimately, it doesn't matter why someone wants to be online and invisible; it matters only whether (a) it's possible and (b) if not, why does ANet offer something called "invisible" for status. Let's try to avoid spending too much time on the motivation, when the OP was primarily interested in how the mechanic works (or specifically: why it doesn't work as one would expect from a plain English reading of the word "invisible").

The most discouraging thing is that it is mentioned many times in last years without any response or reaction. Anet's stance towards player privacy is very lacking, but that's nothing new.

[Dreamy Lu.3865]

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Ultimately, it doesn't matter why someone wants to be online and invisible; it matters only whether (a) it's possible and (b) if not, why does ANet offer something called "invisible" for status. Let's try to avoid spending too much time on the motivation, when the OP was primarily interested in how the mechanic works (or specifically: why it doesn't work as one would expect from a plain English reading of the word "invisible").

Fully agree!And the answer is: As said before, the invisible status is not real. You remain glowing as a big yellow dot on map for all guildies to see you, and your name appears with a marking different than off line players in the guild member list (grey/white, can't recall what one for what right now). So, even if you are invisible, people can see you and that very easily. Not to forget that since you are from guild, if they meet you somewhere, they can see your name highlighted gold (if they have show names in their set up).

[Ellegon Mcleod.5931]

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

My guild has 1 rule, don’t be a ****. (Insert whichever expletive you like)

Chuckle just so long as you allowed to be a kitten (not the replacement for unacceptable words) (jk)

[Holykitten.3064]

@Ellegon Mcleod.5931 said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

My guild has 1 rule, don’t be a ****. (Insert whichever expletive you like)

Chuckle just so long as you allowed to be a kitten (not the replacement for unacceptable words) (jk)

We love kittens so no worries!

[Greaka.6905]

Hey folks,I have read your discussion without commenting so far but appreciate your commitment.To those, who want to discuss about "OP" 's case:I obey every rule and have no problem about representing any guild. However, I said guild leaders because it didn't came from only one guild. I have 2 very active guilds, a PvE one and a WvW one. Both are very successful guilds in their game mode. For example, we raid on monday every week, both in PvE and in WvW. The WvW guild has a rule of on raid times, if you are online, you have to be there. There are two situations that can cause problems now:

• Sometimes I also want to raid PvE, so I have to go offline
• work and other stuff can sometimes be tiring etc., I cannot concentrate enough to play high level content

That's only an example that is happening mondays, we have other days for activities as well, it is just to get the point for you.In short: I want to play the whole game, not only the stuff a specific guild does. Also: your point about not wanting to socialize sometimes hit the spot as well.

[Deimos.4263]

@Greaka.6905 said:In short: I want to play the whole game, not only the stuff a specific guild does. Also: your point about not wanting to socialize sometimes hit the spot as well.Stop hiding! Tell them this flat out. If they don't accept it, find a better guild.

[Henry.5713]

I can understand the wish to be left alone sometimes. Anyone has these days. I will never be a fan of people who are pretending to be offline to get past having to join guild activities, however. You should not be part of two guilds with colliding schedules to begin with or at least be honest with them if you are. This usually allows you to come up with a good compromise. Always works for me at least. Guild leaders should be actually calling you out on this if they notice since it does make you look like someone who is just there for the benefits as well as rather disrespectful towards their rules.

[Holykitten.3064]

@Henry.5713 said:I will never be a fan of people who are pretending to be offline to get past having to join guild activities, however.

Many people will never be a fan of having to appear as offline to be able to occasionally do what they want to do in game, as opposed to what the guild wants them to do. Feeling the need to appear as offline just so you can do what you want to do occasionally, should not have to happen. It happens because of poor leadership and understanding.

You should not be part of two guilds with colliding schedules to begin with or at least be honest with them if you are. This usually allows you to come up with a good compromise. Always works for me at least. Guild leaders should be actually calling you out on this if they notice since it does make you look like someone who is just there for the benefits as well as rather disrespectful towards their rules.

Some guilds schedules change quicker than others. As do players schedules and wants/needs while playing. Some Guild leaders are far too militant for their own good however, it's fine to bring it up as a 'Hey I noticed you're not joining in today, how come?' 'Not in the mood, other guild needs me, I wanted to do X,Y,Z instead 'etc. But some leaders give real warnings, which is just a big Stop sign for some people.

[Ashen.2907]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

There should be the possibility to check if every member is representing ( at least for the guild where represent is a rule ).

I 100% disagree with this. Representing a guild is not necessary anymore since Influence was deleted. There is 0 reason to have a rep rule. If a guild is as good as the people running it say, people will rep it.

This is your point of view.If i do create a guild with rules, and among these there's the representing the guild, i want to be able to check if those who decided to join are respecting or not the rules.

You don't like the rules?You don't join that specific guild.

Your rules are opposite to game desing. We can be members of 5 guilds at the same time which means by design we are allowed by game dev to benefit from them and swap represent on the fly. Your 100% represent rule is abusive and what is worrying you want to spy on players whether they represent all the time. I think this type of behaviour when you harass a player for using in game tools the way they are intended to be used can be reported and punished if enough players start to report abusive guild leaders on daily basis.

Wow, the standard for what is considered abusive continues to drop. Its arguments like this that cause people who are experiencing true abuse to be doubted.

An optional guild having a rule that involves one key command, and that prospective members are informed about, and for which the only actual consequence for non adherence is removal from the guild to which one has no entitlement, is about as far from abusive as is possible.

[SkyShroud.2865]

@Greaka.6905 said:Hey folks,I have read your discussion without commenting so far but appreciate your commitment.To those, who want to discuss about "OP" 's case:I obey every rule and have no problem about representing any guild. However, I said guild leaders because it didn't came from only one guild. I have 2 very active guilds, a PvE one and a WvW one. Both are very successful guilds in their game mode. For example, we raid on monday every week, both in PvE and in WvW. The WvW guild has a rule of on raid times, if you are online, you have to be there. There are two situations that can cause problems now:

• Sometimes I also want to raid PvE, so I have to go offline
• work and other stuff can sometimes be tiring etc., I cannot concentrate enough to play high level content

That's only an example that is happening mondays, we have other days for activities as well, it is just to get the point for you.In short: I want to play the whole game, not only the stuff a specific guild does. Also: your point about not wanting to socialize sometimes hit the spot as well.

Then don't join the guilds. There are plenty of guilds that are successful because of the approaches they chose to take up. If one members chose to do otherwise, that actions can become contagious and influence other members, therefore ending up affect the guilds in long run. Likewise, there are guilds that decided that such actions can become negative for the guild itself since you won't be the last person doing it.

In other words, you joined a hardcore wvw guild with clear and strict rules while wanting exploit the rules. That is your issues, not the game's issue.

[Arioch.6507]

Go "Offline", Rep a different guild or none at all. If you are repping the guild, you will show up on the "Map" as a yellow dot. I have often been going to waypoint and see several "dots" of players that are offline but still repping. (Side note, Our guild has the understanding that if an individual is "offline" they probably don't want to be bothered. They are offline for a reason, be it, working on a chieve or farming or doing story, what ever it may be. So we just leave them alone...they know we are in VOIP and can find us when they are ready to be social.)