Ranger and Protection boon

[Connla Dda.9407]

Why i can not have permanent protection buff as a ranger?

Like (unkillable abomination 1 vs 1 celestial) harbringers and elementelists have?

As i ranger, no matter the specialisation i do not feel comfortable in competitive modes like WvW and PvP.

Ranger have to always choose to go full aggressive with utility or sacrifice it to defensive play and loose competitiveness.

Give us, rangers, tools to stop being punching bags to all other classes.

Perma protection for starters at least on celestial gear!

[Mell.4873]

3 hours ago, Connla Dda.9407 said:

Why i can not have permanent protection buff as a ranger?

Like (unkillable abomination 1 vs 1 celestial) harbringers and elementelists have?

As i ranger, no matter the specialisation i do not feel comfortable in competitive modes like WvW and PvP.

Ranger have to always choose to go full aggressive with utility or sacrifice it to defensive play and loose competitiveness.

Give us, rangers, tools to stop being punching bags to all other classes.

Perma protection for starters at least on celestial gear!

If we are searching for buffs I would prefer more access to Stability. Right now my favourite thing to do is spam the skills we have to instant get 6 or more stability for big clashes (mostly WvW). 

[Zyreva.1078]

WS + NM + SLB + cele = easy perma prot. Druid with the same setup comes close. Ranger has more than enough access to protection.

[Tycura.1982]

You guys messing with me? Ranger has tons of protection options. Good one at that. The most useful one doesn't even need any real investment other than to run wilderness survival.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

20 hours ago, Connla Dda.9407 said:

Ranger have to always choose to go full aggressive with utility or sacrifice it to defensive play and loose competitiveness.

Think lot of you replying that Ranger has good access to protection missed this part of OPs post.

Basically, to get perma protection you must go full bunker (the aforementioned WS/NM combo above), when other classes have it with cele gear alone and get to do damage.  Literally just running WS for a power build is a hugeish DPS loss over BM/Skrim or Marks/Skirm, even with the new traits.  

That said, if you do go full bunker you are going to be kitten near immortal now with the right setup.  You will deal like 50-100 damage an attack (maybe 300 if it crits!) but nothing short of a 3v1 is going to kill you.  

[Zyreva.1078]

5 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Basically, to get perma protection you must go full bunker (the aforementioned WS/NM combo above), when other classes have it with cele gear alone and get to do damage.  Literally just running WS for a power build is a hugeish DPS loss over BM/Skrim or Marks/Skirm, even with the new traits. 

Not true, other classes have to invest into defense too to get decent amounts of protection. Nobody gets perma prot while going full glass. Also both WS and NM do provide some offensive value too, and that cele "bunker" ranger isn't far off from other cele "bunkers" in terms of dmg.

[Connla Dda.9407]

23 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

WS + NM + SLB + cele = easy perma prot. Druid with the same setup comes close. Ranger has more than enough access to protection.

WS dodge - 3s protection x 2 = 6s + Moa Stance 4,5 s + Protect Me 6s = 16,5 sec protection while cooldowns are 25 and 30 sec respectively. So far from perma protecttion. On Celestial grear. While Harbringer stacks it up to 25 seconds uptime of Protection. Stop telling not whole truth.

[Zyreva.1078]

You can dodge a lot more than once or twice every 25-30s (with WS + vigor + dodge food you can get to +100% endurance regen for a dodge every 5s, and could even add energy sigils if you want for even more dodge spam). And your pet gets all the boons that you can copy onto yourself twice with WHaO and Fresh reinforcement and Invigorating Bond also grants prot. I never use moa stance (and always preserve protect me for when i need it instead of wasting it just for prot) and can maintain prot just fine with aforementioned setup.

(Also you assume ~50% boon duration, but you can very easily get up to 75-80% - without moa stance mind you)

Edited April 1 by Zyreva.1078

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Oh, look I got 100% upkeep http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAkmlZgFCmgZEpB-DmSI9CoEIjFCA-w

And there is still 2 whole traitlines, any two pets (I just threw smokescale in for fluff), another weapon set, runes, sigils, and gear stat selection to pick out still... You can drop NM if you go Soulbeast or Druid though and take the right traits/utilities and take a more aggressive traitline in its stead.

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

unironically, with rune of the grove you can push 100% protection duration with some concentration, With the ladder listing the Spec, traits and utilities you can indefinitely have protection up period without even trying.

 

On release Soulbeast was "low-key" a sustain-healing menace with infinite regen and protection (rugged growth) and being able to apply weakness 100%, you could essentially brute force a 1v1 or 1v3 due to innate tankiness and sustain. It was nerfed multiple times since then, and had some undocumented nerfs that weren't listed.

[Connla Dda.9407]

As i said before, with 100% boon uptime you have to sacrifice everything aggressive wise utilities and traits. When you bunker up you will note kill anyone and will be defending only longer. But the renault will be the same. You will need to respawn. While other classes stack 25 sec. Protection easy. We need same treatment. In my opiniom.

[Zyreva.1078]

You don't have to invest any utilities or specific weapons. Just some gear and traits that offer lot's of additional value anyway, and not just on the defensive side (25 stacks of might for example).

Both cele druid and cele slb can kill like ~ 95% of players in WvW just fine, and those that don't die also won't die against most other classes.

And the majority of classes have to invest just as much for perma prot or don't even have that much access to prot to begin with.

Asking for even more "free" prot on ranger is ridiculous.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

10 hours ago, Connla Dda.9407 said:

As i said before, with 100% boon uptime you have to sacrifice everything aggressive wise utilities and traits. When you bunker up you will note kill anyone and will be defending only longer. But the renault will be the same. You will need to respawn. While other classes stack 25 sec. Protection easy. We need same treatment. In my opiniom.

You don't even need 100% BD to upkeep protection on any ranger variant...

[Codename T.2847]

10 hours ago, Connla Dda.9407 said:

As i said before, with 100% boon uptime you have to sacrifice everything aggressive wise utilities and traits. When you bunker up you will note kill anyone and will be defending only longer. But the renault will be the same. You will need to respawn. While other classes stack 25 sec. Protection easy. We need same treatment. In my opiniom.

I don't think they do,no. The aforementioned Ele has 4-6 sec upon entering earth (depending on stats) a 6-9 sec upon using Armor of Earth. They really get perma prot if they say goodbye to their burst damage potential and whip out the good old meme traitline that is Earth, but thats a huge sacrifice while hindering other aspects of gameplay (burst damage and mobility). Ele normally* gets their sustain through active defenses (blinds and blocks mostly, barrier too on some older Weaver builds) not at all passive bullkittenery.

* I say normally here because if you play signet cata or cele tempest religiously there's something wrong with you. 

Necro doesn't have perma prot either, per se, "only" short duration pulsing protection from either death magic or Soul Reaping. Note, if they take both they do virtually no damage either, and laughable condi damage even on cele. (Unless you eat all their shroud CC, and/or elite elixir then it can get problematic) They can seem tanky while not having any visible protection on them because of blood magic too, in some cases. Power builds have lotsa damage sure, but only smart kiting to fall back on and not any protection there either. (or tanking some damage with shroud) 

Revenant has a lot of passive dmg reduction if they take retribution/salvation traitlines, but similarly to ele and Necro, laughable damage if they do both and noticeably less if they do either of the 2. Cele Herald/Vindi can have lengthy protection, but that's more of a stat issue with Herald and a class interaction issue with Vindi. Im not 100% sure about these since I know f*ck all about revenant gameplay in WvW. 

So yeah I say that the only subclasses that can sit on looooong defensive boons while also not sacrificing burst damage (therefore power) is Vanguard Tactics Willbender with certain skills used like Save yourselves, virtues traitline in general, or even mainhand mace if they feel daring. 

Edit: on the note for other classes, Warrior, Thief and Mesmer have virtually no protection because they have a lot of different ways to be defensive. (Deadeye might have lengthy prot if they run maleficent seven but that's the least of your worries when facing any deadeye imo.) Engi meanwhile is in the unique situation where it either does a lot of damage, but can be killed just as easily if caught, or doing none at all while being extremely slippery and annoying (Alchemy/tools + iron blood core engis jumping into ganker groups to make them slip with oil shoes comes to mind :D) 

Tldr: 90% of the classes or elite specs can't have perma protection without having atleast some of their other apartments gîmped (is gìmping considered a swearword here btw? O_o) 

Edited April 2 by Codename T.2847

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 4/1/2024 at 2:42 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Oh, look I got 100% upkeep http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAkmlZgFCmgZEpB-DmSI9CoEIjFCA-w

And there is still 2 whole traitlines, any two pets (I just threw smokescale in for fluff), another weapon set, runes, sigils, and gear stat selection to pick out still... You can drop NM if you go Soulbeast or Druid though and take the right traits/utilities and take a more aggressive traitline in its stead.

Sorry, but what kind of nonsense even is this 😂.

What's this rotation look like, Mace #3 into enemy, random pet F2 for some prot, blow your stunbreak in protect me, blow your heal in WHaO...? It's like old Sic' Em Soulbeast but entirely useless...amazing.  

Meanwhile on War I spam Line Breaker and do literally anything else and have pretty much 60% prot uptime with a small amount of boon duration without even including traits lool. 

If you want perma prot, Line Breaker + Mending w/ Defense line + Traited Full Counter and some boon duration is really easy way to do it methinks.  This also includes the condi clear, stability, etc. that Warrior gets by doing literally anything.  

EDIT: Just noticed you posted that on April Fools...please tell me it was April Fools....

Edited April 2 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Sorry, but what kind of nonsense even is this 😂.

5% of a whole build. Everything else is entirely optional.

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

What's this rotation look like, Mace #3 into enemy, random pet F2 for some prot, blow your stunbreak in protect me, blow your heal in WHaO...? It's like old Sic' Em Soulbeast but entirely useless...amazing.  

Only if you don't fill in the other 95% of the build.

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Meanwhile on War I spam Line Breaker and do literally anything else and have pretty much 60% prot uptime with a small amount of boon duration without even including traits lool. 

If you want perma prot, Line Breaker + Mending w/ Defense line + Traited Full Counter and some boon duration is really easy way to do it methinks.  This also includes the condi clear, stability, etc. that Warrior gets by doing literally anything.  

You do realize you are doing right here what I did above right?

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

EDIT: Just noticed you posted that on April Fools...please tell me it was April Fools....

Nah, like I said I posted 5% of a build that is able to achieve perma prot, any joke is you thinking that is the whole of a build. There are other sources of prot that ranger has access to and doesn't even need to take the options I listed. It is simply an exercise in demonstrating that ranger indeed has superfluous amounts of prot already and is able to attain 100% uptime through a few sources without needing BD, and fewer sources if they take any meaningful amount of BD. This would be like me complaining that warrior doesn't have enough self healing, which in reality they have in spades.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

36 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You do realize you are doing right here what I did above right?

Bruh please:

With no extra boon duration:

Oaken Cudgel - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

Line Breaker - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

4s prot for Line Breaker, 3s prot for Cudgel; Stun and some Nature Strength / Force of Nature and Pet Heal (lol) vs. 3k Heal, Aegis, Unblockable and Weakness.  450 Range vs. 1200.  

Mending - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

"We Heal As One!" - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

Mending 6520 base heal + 5 condis removed, 3s prot when traited 20s CD.  WhaO 6520 base heal, 2s prot copy (if you already have it) 24s CD.  

So far, we're at 7s prot vs. 5s prot with just these two skills.  For upkeep, war is way ahead due to a four second CD difference between healing skills.

Now just assuming spellbreaker vs. protect me:

Full Counter - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

Guard Counter - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

"Protect Me!" - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

Traited Full Counter: 5-Target Flat Damage, 100% Damage reduction on next attack, Stab, Daze, Counterattack Evasion, 3s Prot on 12s CD.  Literal profession mechanic.

Protect Me: 3.3k barrier, 4s prot, 32s CD utility skill--also blowing one of your usually two stunbreaks for this.

Now at super basic level we have War with 10s Prot vs. Ranger with 9s Prot--but Full Counter is on a way, way lower CD, is not a utility skill (so you don't have to sacrifice a stunbreak)--so Warrior is still way ahead here.

I'm not going into Invigorating Bond, because you threw up Smokescale as your pet of choice instead of Siege Turtle--so we're way past meme now.  Even with Turtle I'm blowing a projectile block for another 3-4s prot.

Don't need to fill out the rest of the builds (as for Ranger upkeep would require also blowing dodges with WS); just going to leave it at, please stop meme'ing.  If you are losing to a ranger or stalemating a ranger on a healbreaker, seek help.  

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

You've missed the point entirely. Ranger is tied with elementalist with the most protection access in the game. You don't have to or even need to take that many sources to achieve 100% upkeep without BD.  You're the only one meme'ing here.

Others have already pointed out in this thread that BD is hardly needed with a ranger to attain 100% upkeep on protection, they have that many sources of it. Nor does one even need to perma upkeep it outside of zerg play or instanced PvE.

I'll say it again, complaining about protection access or uptime on ranger would be like a warrior complaining about lack of self healing, or a thief complaining about lack of stealth access... It's the very thing Anet built them to be good at.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

On 4/2/2024 at 7:17 AM, Connla Dda.9407 said:

As i said before, with 100% boon uptime you have to sacrifice everything aggressive wise utilities and traits. When you bunker up you will note kill anyone and will be defending only longer. But the renault will be the same. You will need to respawn. While other classes stack 25 sec. Protection easy. We need same treatment. In my opiniom.

Are these builds that delete people while having easy Perma prot in this room right now? 

I need examples. Proof of these claims. 

 

[Connla Dda.9407]

You must be joking, Nobody uses "We Heal as One" heal skill. Due to insuficient condition cleanses. You need to use Healing Spring or Soulbeast heal skill - bear stance to celanse conditions. otherwise you will be dead in matter of seconds.

2 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Are these builds that delete people while having easy Perma prot in this room right now? 

I need examples. Proof of these claims. 

 

Celestial Harbringer for example. Never approach alone. Even can do 1 vs 2. And no, this is not learn to play issue.

[Dadnir.5038]

28 minutes ago, Connla Dda.9407 said:

You must be joking, Nobody uses "We Heal as One" heal skill.

Now, you did it! I feel like a nobody!

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Now, you did it! I feel like a nobody!

There there... Would you like to rampage as one instead?

[Zyreva.1078]

2 hours ago, Connla Dda.9407 said:

You must be joking, Nobody uses "We Heal as One" heal skill.

I do.

2 hours ago, Connla Dda.9407 said:

Celestial Harbringer for example. Never approach alone. Even can do 1 vs 2. And no, this is not learn to play issue.

And i can beat 99% of cele harbs in a 1vs1.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

14 hours ago, Connla Dda.9407 said:

You must be joking, Nobody uses "We Heal as One" heal skill. Due to insuficient condition cleanses. You need to use Healing Spring or Soulbeast heal skill - bear stance to celanse conditions. otherwise you will be dead in matter of seconds.

The random warrior mains in this topic apparently use it only to boon copy protection in a non-ironic way as a method of permanent upkeep.

12 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

I do.

I don't want to quote your own cele roaming vid to you, but since you use WHaO and this topic about prot boon I feel need to bring up you lose it a lot during that first outnumbered fight.  Probably lose it lots later too, but 2-3 min is enough proof for me that realistic perma upkeep isn't possible.

Maybe should quote it so the warriors here that think creating WHaO meme builds means perma protection is possible in an actual scenario.  Because you play the safest cele bunker I've ever seen in WvW and it can't even reliably keep up perma protection.

And by that, I mean this:

16 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You've missed the point entirely. Ranger is tied with elementalist with the most protection access in the game. You don't have to or even need to take that many sources to achieve 100% upkeep without BD.  You're the only one meme'ing here.

I literally need to see you play Ranger in a competitive environment and upkeep perma prot while actually contributing something and not insta-dying from blowing all your heals and stunbreaks to do so.  

As it's 100% right to complain about prot access on ranger now that they push melee and remove most easy sources of stability and aegis like warrior gets.  

[Mell.4873]

15 hours ago, Connla Dda.9407 said:

You must be joking, Nobody uses "We Heal as One" heal skill. Due to insuficient condition cleanses. You need to use Healing Spring or Soulbeast heal skill - bear stance to celanse conditions. otherwise you will be dead in matter of seconds.

That would be true on some builds. Even Bear stance doesn't cut it on my Carrion Poison/Bleed Soulbeast build due to not enough direct healing. 

There are plenty of built in traits/utilities that can cleanse conditions especially if you are not a Soulbeast.

Using "We Heal as One" is also a great way to get Regeneration on Soulbeast when you don't have any other command skills to waste. 

Edited April 4 by Mell.4873