Did the 'Secret's of the Obscure' class features have an impact on your gameplay?

[Dadnir.5038]

4 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

I find it weird that we got mechanics that are self-contained within weapons with the most recent ones, like thief axe, ranger maces, or ele pistol, but something like the explosion mechanic of warrior pistol only holds meaning for one elite.

Still better than a mechanic that hold meaning for none of the elite specs or even the core profession.

Look at necromancer's swords they get a "token" life sacrifice mechanic with 0 support in any traitline and using this mechanic barely bring the sword at the level of the other weapons. I mean, at this point, necromancer use life force, conditions, maximum life (blight) and health as ressource. What's next? Will the following weapon ask the necromancer to use "endurance" as ressource? Or maybe like spellbreaker's healing skill they will break their own boons for nothing?

[Atoclone.4810]

On 4/1/2024 at 1:36 AM, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

.

Unfortunately, everything about weapon mastery and the new pistol for elementalists have been... not useful, to put it kindly.

😄

Not true, sword on power catalyst, hammer on condi tempest, war horn for everything. 

But yeah pistol, nice idea ruined by bad bullet mechanic

[Tammuz.7361]

On 4/3/2024 at 4:43 AM, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

Weapon Master seems like a really poorly thought out idea by someone playing 1-2 classes, probably a Guardian player, spending 5 seconds thinking “wouldn’t it be cool if your Firebrand starts raining arrows or zipping around on dual swords?” while not considering in a vacuum how the balance of other classes work.

The Pistol Scourge fiasco was hilarious for the short time it lasted. Scourge was absolutely not designed with a Torment weapon in mind, but it was gutted anyway due to a stupid idea and I’m pretty sure condi Scourge now can’t live without Pistol. Something similar happened to Ele but on a grander scale. Ele spec weapons are absolutely not designed with each other in mind. That’s why Warhorn, an overpowered weapon balanced only by its limited access, now renders every other off-hand choices obsolete. Also Tempest destroyed Hanmer and now Catalyst can’t even use its own weapon. Other similar cases could be Herald ruining Greatsword for Vindicator. 

Yet after much balance shuffling the numbers around, most especs went back to still using their own weapon/ old build anyway and nothing new really happened, unless their old weapon was nerfed like cases above and there’s nothing for them to go back to. Overall on average Weapon Master did a lot more damage to the game’s balance than the good it brought, if there was anything good at all. So in terms of “impact”, it was a flat negative.

Hits the nail on the head here regarding Weapon Master.

[VocalThought.9835]

On 4/2/2024 at 4:05 AM, Dadnir.5038 said:

I wish I was even a quarter as optimist as you seem to be...

I feel ya, but why not be optimistic? I wouldn't be here in this forum if I wasn't excited about what A-Net did to this genre and for what I still know they are capable of. 

Guild Wars 2 broke the mold with professions when they created their 3 part class system and health tiers, and were able to recognize their 9 core profession thematics plus developing a means of establishing variations of each theme with their specializations and elite specializations.  Because of this, I can't not see them planning to add a forth, due to this final void not being currently filled. 

Not only would this fourth elite continue to address their initial concern for not having dual professions from the first GW, but they would really address the character themes that are indeed missing. 

Why is there a Mesmer with an illusion that looks like a demon pictured in the initial art design not a thing you can play in the game? It looks great and seems awesome. I would love to play that. 

Where's the warrior that fights with cestus or his barehands?

How about the theif that uses his intuition and has that tomb raider/ "Indiana Jones" fill appeal? 

There is so much GW2 can add with a new Elite Specs and could still add two or three new weapons proficiencies, that would complete the game for me. 

If their going to start a GW3, please atleast finish what they started. If they did add a fourth elite specialization along with giving professions almost 3 new available weapons they could easily just add dungeons or raids, or just add new stories to keep the gaming going after that. 

[Dadnir.5038]

5 hours ago, VocalThought.9835 said:

Why is there a Mesmer with an illusion that looks like a demon pictured in the initial art design not a thing you can play in the game?

That's probably gw1 influence in the early arts. GW1 Mesmer skills art often pictured "demons". I imagine that after that they choose to take the path that led to mesmer farting clones.

5 hours ago, VocalThought.9835 said:

Where's the warrior that fights with cestus or his barehands?

That might disappoint you but what you're looking for is clearly the physical elite skill Rampage. I seriously doubt that the devs will introduce new weapons in the game. Maybe kits/conjure/"shrouds" but definitely no new weapons.

5 hours ago, VocalThought.9835 said:

How about the theif that uses his intuition and has that tomb raider/ "Indiana Jones" fill appeal?

Ah... Gosh! I wish they would! From the moment they start talking about elite specs I've been fantasizing about such a spec... Well, objectively, daredevil might be give a "lara croft" gameplay feel. I wish thief had a torch and a "whip kit" (thought, engineer could also fit the bill for such a spec)

5 hours ago, VocalThought.9835 said:

There is so much GW2 can add with a new Elite Specs and could still add two or three new weapons proficiencies, that would complete the game for me. 

I do agree that GW2 could be much more. However, I must say that I'm quite disappointed by the way the last batch of especs and the new weapons have been integrated in the game. It's like they just want the later to be independant from the professions/specs that use them and, ultimately, it fall short of expectation.

[Gendalfs.7521]

Short time vision. From balance perspective this is awfull. They got rid of one tool to balance classes. But its fun for everyone.

[VocalThought.9835]

13 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

That's probably gw1 influence in the early arts. GW1 Mesmer skills art often pictured "demons". I imagine that after that they choose to take the path that led to mesmer farting clones.

That might disappoint you but what you're looking for is clearly the physical elite skill Rampage. I seriously doubt that the devs will introduce new weapons in the game. Maybe kits/conjure/"shrouds" but definitely no new weapons.

Ah... Gosh! I wish they would! From the moment they start talking about elite specs I've been fantasizing about such a spec... Well, objectively, daredevil might be give a "lara croft" gameplay feel. I wish thief had a torch and a "whip kit" (thought, engineer could also fit the bill for such a spec)

I do agree that GW2 could be much more. However, I must say that I'm quite disappointed by the way the last batch of especs and the new weapons have been integrated in the game. It's like they just want the later to be independant from the professions/specs that use them and, ultimately, it fall short of expectation.

I definitely know that that Mesmer idea, whether GW1 or GW2 inspired is awesome and they need to do that. 

The Warrior just need to get Dual Focus and they'd be good enough for me.

We both agree on the theif thing so kudos to all those that can make that happen. 

And the final point.... it's okay that the EOD didn't hit it's mark with everyone. Everything is not for everybody. What they did do is address the thing that was missing, which was needed. Now they just got to finish the job. The great thing is, if they do a final fourth elite specialization, the way I have in mind, it won't be a classical archetype they wouldn't be able to play with and they could really start build full stories in the future around all the profession instead of shoe horning them in.  The future of GW will be more lavish and lush because they'd have a great foundation amongst the professions to build around.

 

 

[Gaiawolf.8261]

43 minutes ago, VocalThought.9835 said:

I definitely know that that Mesmer idea, whether GW1 or GW2 inspired is awesome and they need to do that. 

The Warrior just need to get Dual Focus and they'd be good enough for me.

We both agree on the theif thing so kudos to all those that can make that happen. 

And the final point.... it's okay that the EOD didn't hit it's mark with everyone. Everything is not for everybody. What they did do is address the thing that was missing, which was needed. Now they just got to finish the job. The great thing is, if they do a final fourth elite specialization, the way I have in mind, it won't be a classical archetype they wouldn't be able to play with and they could really start build full stories in the future around all the profession instead of shoe horning them in.  The future of GW will be more lavish and lush because they'd have a great foundation amongst the professions to build around.

 

 

I know I've posted these before, but here are some missing themes I'd like that could be fulfilled by especs:

Warrior: Spellblade, rune knight, battlemaster, warlord

Guardian: Exorcist, inquisitor, oathbreaker, priest/monk

Thief: Trickster magician, soulknife, swashbuckler (maybe daredevil covers this last one)

Engineer: Alchemist, power armorer, artillerist

Ranger: proper shapeshifter, monster hunter/slayer/trapper

Necromancer: witch doctor, pact warlock, proper minion master

Mesmer: proper summoner, mind mage, item enchanter, illusionary monsters/horrors 

Elementalist: Specialist, elemental transformation 

Revenant: Let's bring back some OG GW incarnates: dervish, ritualist

And I'll say it again, a proper spearman, lancer, polearm master, etc.

[DeceiverX.8361]

On 4/7/2024 at 5:20 AM, Shagie.7612 said:

I don't think it was impossible to do, it just would have needed to drop with an entire redo on the power budgets and tuning of every weapon's skills and elite spec.

So balancing the game, lol.  Silos of consolidated power on the elite specs is the real problem, as it always was and will be.

As for OP:  Can't impact my gameplay if you there's no gameplay happening lol.

On a serious note, the idea of unlocking weapons for all professions and specs is a good one; it exposes problem areas immediately and conceptually opens the gates to more diversity.

The problem is ANet professions developers are just blatantly horrendous at actually fixing real causal problems with the classes and gameplay systems and consistently goes for the low-hanging fruit tweaks to even up DPS benchmark numbers in the lowest-effort ways possible, the rest of the game, modes, and other builds be damned.  This mindset is fundamentally not compatible with the decoupling of all these mechanics because it encourages jumping on the most OP builds and even further inhibits other stuff from using parts of those builds or styles.

There's a long-running history by this studio of having NAND relationships between "good idea" and "good execution", and this is just yet another case of "good idea, bad execution."

Edited April 16 by DeceiverX.8361

[VocalThought.9835]

4 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I know I've posted these before, but here are some missing themes I'd like that could be fulfilled by especs:

Warrior: Spellblade, rune knight, battlemaster, warlord

Guardian: Exorcist, inquisitor, oathbreaker, priest/monk

Thief: Trickster magician, soulknife, swashbuckler (maybe daredevil covers this last one)

Engineer: Alchemist, power armorer, artillerist

Ranger: proper shapeshifter, monster hunter/slayer/trapper

Necromancer: witch doctor, pact warlock, proper minion master

Mesmer: proper summoner, mind mage, item enchanter, illusionary monsters/horrors 

Elementalist: Specialist, elemental transformation 

Revenant: Let's bring back some OG GW incarnates: dervish, ritualist

And I'll say it again, a proper spearman, lancer, polearm master, etc.

I feel like you're just throwing out a lot of names, where what we need to see is some mechanics with those names. And where you do have mechanics, some of those are already possible,  so I'm curious to what you think is missing.

I will say, I agree with some of what you have, highlighted it, and I would love to see it, but a lot of what you described is already in the game if you build for it.

As far as Revenant, since we know their planning for GW3, they should make the next Revenant Elite from the future of guild wars, not the past, and give him Dual Pistols. 😉

[Shagie.7612]

3 hours ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

So balancing the game, lol.

Technically, yes. But that's also a ridiculous amount of work. Especially for what are now smaller expansions. Every possible permutation of elite spec and weapon combo? Plus, now you're deciding whether or not something is a problem for one elite and not another, and how you address that.

3 hours ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

Silos of consolidated power on the elite specs is the real problem, as it always was and will be.

I disagree here. I think having playstyles and builds, and their weapons and the tuning that goes with all of them, locked behind elite specs is fine.
If you want a certain weapon, play that elite. If you want a certain playstyle, because you don't like clones, play Virt. That kinda stuff.

That said, I do agree that it's another time where the idea is something that could be fine, but wasn't planned out well.
Heck, in doing so (followed by the subsequent change to give it free pierce) they effectively killed the last reason to play Renegade in pvp, that being a strong ranged weapon in shortbow that the others had no access to because hammer was bad at that point in time.
I don't think anyone thought that kinda thing through. And that's frustrating, and happens way too often.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

23 minutes ago, VocalThought.9835 said:

I feel like you're just throwing out a lot of names, where what we need to see is some mechanics with those names. And where you do have mechanics, some of those are already possible,  so I'm curious to what you think is missing.

I will say, I agree with some of what you have, highlighted it, and I would love to see it, but a lot of what you described is already in the game if you build for it.

As far as Revenant, since we know their planning for GW3, they should make the next Revenant Elite from the future of guild wars, not the past, and give him Dual Pistols. 😉

I haven't gone as far as to think up mechanics for each yet. I tend to start with concepts for building class fantasies and building them up. Themes tend to come before mechanics in the RPG genre anyway. But I'll share a few before bed:

Illusionist: Replace shatter skills with Phantasmal Horror skills. Instead of shattering clones, they warp into an illusionary monster that persists for a time. These illusions are not dispelled when targets die and will seek new targets until they expire. The more clones consumed by the skill, the longer the illusion persists.

1. F1: Summon an illusionary beast that attacks relentlessly, pelting foes with strike damage.
2. F2: Summon an illusionary horror that spreads torment and confusion in a radius around it as it hounds the target.
3. F3: Summon a giant serpent that coils around an area, dazing and immobilizing foes.
4. F4: Summon a phantasmal guardian that protects you, blocking attacks and reflecting missiles.

Incarnate: Staying attuned to a single element grants charges and boons over time. Fire: Might. Water: Regeneration. Air: Quickness. Earth: Protection. Certain trait selections can share these boons with allies. When you have accumulated enough charges in an element, you may choose to transform into an elemental based on your attunement. Some utility skills or traits grant charges to transform faster, while others can extend the duration of your elemental form, so you have to choose which you want. When your transformation ends, you must switch attunements before gaining charges again (or maybe weapon skills go on CD until you swap attunement or something like that).

Exorcist: You chant your virtues to punish enemies or support allies. Virtues become toggle skills that grant persistent bonuses to your weapon skills depending on which is active. Justice: Adds area damage/burning to weapon skills. Resolve: Adds area healing to weapon skills (staff auto seriously could use this). Courage: Adds area protection and resolution to weapon skills. Obviously these will have ICDs and low durations. You may only chant one virtue at a time. Elite: Words of Power: Share the effects of your active virtue with allies for a short time.

 Obviously these are rough and need more thought, but I like the ideas.

[VocalThought.9835]

9 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I haven't gone as far as to think up mechanics for each yet. I tend to start with concepts for building class fantasies and building them up. Themes tend to come before mechanics in the RPG genre anyway. But I'll share a few before bed:

Illusionist: Replace shatter skills with Phantasmal Horror skills. Instead of shattering clones, they warp into an illusionary monster that persists for a time. These illusions are not dispelled when targets die and will seek new targets until they expire. The more clones consumed by the skill, the longer the illusion persists.

1. F1: Summon an illusionary beast that attacks relentlessly, pelting foes with strike damage.
2. F2: Summon an illusionary horror that spreads torment and confusion in a radius around it as it hounds the target.
3. F3: Summon a giant serpent that coils around an area, dazing and immobilizing foes.
4. F4: Summon a phantasmal guardian that protects you, blocking attacks and reflecting missiles.

Incarnate: Staying attuned to a single element grants charges and boons over time. Fire: Might. Water: Regeneration. Air: Quickness. Earth: Protection. Certain trait selections can share these boons with allies. When you have accumulated enough charges in an element, you may choose to transform into an elemental based on your attunement. Some utility skills or traits grant charges to transform faster, while others can extend the duration of your elemental form, so you have to choose which you want. When your transformation ends, you must switch attunements before gaining charges again (or maybe weapon skills go on CD until you swap attunement or something like that).

Exorcist: You chant your virtues to punish enemies or support allies. Virtues become toggle skills that grant persistent bonuses to your weapon skills depending on which is active. Justice: Adds area damage/burning to weapon skills. Resolve: Adds area healing to weapon skills (staff auto seriously could use this). Courage: Adds area protection and resolution to weapon skills. Obviously these will have ICDs and low durations. You may only chant one virtue at a time. Elite: Words of Power: Share the effects of your active virtue with allies for a short time.

 Obviously these are rough and need more thought, but I like the ideas.

Dude, you just gave me a great idea for a new thread. Would you like to join me in creating a and flushing out great ideas or concepts for the next line of elite specializations? I hoping if they're great maybe ANet would actually put them in the game. It'll at least be a fun new hobby.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

Sounds fun to me. I used to design RPG rulesets. It would be neat to jump back into it as a hobby.

[VocalThought.9835]

5 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Sounds fun to me. I used to design RPG rulesets. It would be neat to jump back into it as a hobby.

Here a link to that post.

[DeceiverX.8361]

6 hours ago, VocalThought.9835 said:

Here a link to that post.

Has been attempted before, threads got combined, and the ideas either ignored or completely spat in the face of.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Suggestions-Future-Elite-Specializations/page/6#post6072256

Many posts, like the above, were their own threads.

Don't waste your time.  Better-off home-brewing D&D classes.

Edited April 17 by DeceiverX.8361

[VocalThought.9835]

10 hours ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

Has been attempted before, threads got combined, and the ideas either ignored or completely spat in the face of.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Suggestions-Future-Elite-Specializations/page/6#post6072256

Many posts, like the above, were their own threads.

Don't waste your time.  Better-off home-brewing D&D classes.

Good to know. I think the difference is trying to create an elite specializations with the current elites in mind, as opposed to just trying to create just something someonevthinks would be cool. I'm definitely going to comb through this and see what stands out.

 

Thanks!

[StraightPath.3972]

I don't own SotO (bit on a financial downturn atm) but yes, it features did impact my gameplay experience, specifically in spvp.
Suffice it to say that each time I see a staff spellbreaker I want to ensure his firmer grip on it by lodging it in their backside with a decisive upward movement.
I'm glad to see A-net somewhat understands my concerns and has given sb staff some due nerfs.

Similar approach could be taken with  ranger maces, albeit due to their .. shape and number said task may prove much more.. challenging.

 

Edited April 17 by StraightPath.3972

[Leo G.4501]

17 hours ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

Has been attempted before, threads got combined, and the ideas either ignored or completely spat in the face of.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Suggestions-Future-Elite-Specializations/page/6#post6072256

Many posts, like the above, were their own threads.

Don't waste your time.  Better-off home-brewing D&D classes.

I think suggestions like these should aim to be more for fun rather than actually taken to be implemented. At best, maybe inspire someone who is working on content to alter their future addition.

 

[VocalThought.9835]

Here my ideas

 

[Bladestrom.6425]

Good idea but ele pistol is a mess.

[zeyeti.8347]

On 5/8/2024 at 5:05 PM, VocalThought.9835 said:

Here my ideas

 

Oh dude that's not often i can say i like every idea for an e-spec , even less for every class , may anet see your post and fully commit to it !