I want WvW to be instantiated.

[i love guildwars.6874]

I want WvW to be instantiated. It's too deserted. Currently, the rivalry between servers or the alliance system is meaningless. I think it would be better to go to the instance system for WvW like PVE. I wish WVW would be instantiated by integrating the server like PVE.

Edited April 10 by i love guildwars.6874

[Dawdler.8521]

It already is instanced per tier. That’s literally the whole WvW map system.

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

It already is instanced per tier. That’s literally the whole WvW map system.

I think they mean to just fill the maps and then create a new instance when they are full and close them when they are empty. The intention being to remove off-peak population sparsity by consolidating everyone into one instance during times when it isn't as busy. Essentially doing away with servers altogether.

While that's a fine idea in concept, and obviously works just fine for PvE, it doesn't take into account team balancing or scoring at all. How would it be decided what team you are on? How would that work over the course of a match as populations fluctuate? How would points be calculated with changing numbers of instances? How would it affect the score when empty maps close?

 

Edited April 10 by Remus Darkblight.1673

[XenesisII.1540]

2 hours ago, i love guildwars.6874 said:

I want WvW to be instantiated. It's too deserted. Currently, the rivalry between servers or the alliance system is meaningless. I think it would be better to go to the instance system for WvW like PVE. I wish WVW would be instantiated by integrating the server like PVE.

Then you wouldn't be fighting as separate worlds, the points system wouldn't make sense (not that it has any meaning left), but simply put, this wouldn't be world vs world vs world anymore, it would just be deathmatch battlegrounds where you're randomly thrown into maps to fill them every time you enter..

Also spvp also provides random instance pvp content, feel free to visit.

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, i love guildwars.6874 said:

I want WvW to be instantiated. It's too deserted. Currently, the rivalry between servers or the alliance system is meaningless. I think it would be better to go to the instance system for WvW like PVE. I wish WVW would be instantiated by integrating the server like PVE.

Edge of the Mists (EotM) is setup this way as an overflow. It still doesn't mean you will find equal numbers but is designed to create new instances once one is full. I like the map myself except it doesn't aid your side outside of adding supply to your homeland spawn so I can't recommend outside of when you are waiting for queue. If waiting in queue, try it out, you can see how maps evolved over time based on feedback and see how ABL became EotM and then DBL.  EotM does not add to warscore still so don't queue if you are trying to aid your side but hit a regular map. If all maps queued, go for it and add sups to your spawn for others versus PvE. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

Just now, XenesisII.1540 said:

Then you wouldn't be fighting as separate worlds, the points system wouldn't make sense (not that it has any meaning left), but simply put, this wouldn't be world vs world vs world anymore, it would just be deathmatch battlegrounds where you're randomly thrown into maps to fill them every time you enter..

Also spvp also provides random instance pvp content, feel free to visit.

lol, I was just defending a number of us from being bad at sleeping, Archon logs in, in game, and then you and me are here. Why are we all bad at sleeping? I am hating future me already when the alarm goes off in 3 hours. 🙂 I think I need less ADHD friends lol. 

[XenesisII.1540]

6 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

lol, I was just defending a number of us from being bad at sleeping, Archon logs in, in game, and then you and me are here. Why are we all bad at sleeping? I am hating future me already when the alarm goes off in 3 hours. 🙂 I think I need less ADHD friends lol. 

I'm a vampire, maybe you're turning into one. 🧛‍♂️

[Zok.4956]

9 hours ago, Remus Darkblight.1673 said:

I think they mean to just fill the maps and then create a new instance when they are full and close them when they are empty. The intention being to remove off-peak population sparsity by consolidating everyone into one instance during times when it isn't as busy. Essentially doing away with servers altogether.

Thats the "overflow" system that is already in EotM. 

In regular WvW (not EotM) there is exactly one instance.  Sure, on some servers/teams there are queues. But if you then start a new instance even though the opponents are still outnumbered, that would only increase the population imbalance even further.

[TheGrimm.5624]

3 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

I'm a vampire, maybe you're turning into one. 🧛‍♂️

I am just a child of the 80s. Sleep all day, party all night, never grow old, never die. It's fun to be a vampire. 

[Knighthonor.4061]

I suggested this before, but Boarder maps should be reduced down to two 1v1 map design instead of current design. This way the maps are designed equal for both servers and the objectives could be built up from there. Leave EBG as the 3 way server map. Maybe a new equal design boarder map to replace desert 🏜 and leave rest of the boarder maps to be 1v1

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

15 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

Thats the "overflow" system that is already in EotM. 

In regular WvW (not EotM) there is exactly one instance.  Sure, on some servers/teams there are queues. But if you then start a new instance even though the opponents are still outnumbered, that would only increase the population imbalance even further.

No need to tell me that, I was just trying to clarify the OP's post.

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 4/10/2024 at 4:14 AM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

lol, I was just defending a number of us from being bad at sleeping, Archon logs in, in game, and then you and me are here. Why are we all bad at sleeping? I am hating future me already when the alarm goes off in 3 hours. 🙂 I think I need less ADHD friends lol. 

lol confused peep, sorry. As in I squirrel enough on my own already since I am ADHD and its less distractions when all my friends are also about the shinny. Grow that into a server of them and oh boi.

[Danikat.8537]

On 4/10/2024 at 9:06 AM, Remus Darkblight.1673 said:

I think they mean to just fill the maps and then create a new instance when they are full and close them when they are empty. The intention being to remove off-peak population sparsity by consolidating everyone into one instance during times when it isn't as busy. Essentially doing away with servers altogether.

While that's a fine idea in concept, and obviously works just fine for PvE, it doesn't take into account team balancing or scoring at all. How would it be decided what team you are on? How would that work over the course of a match as populations fluctuate? How would points be calculated with changing numbers of instances? How would it affect the score when empty maps close?

I think that's what world restructuring is supposed to do.

Instead of players choosing a server they'll choose a guild (or stay solo) and the guild can choose an alliance, but then the game will group alliances, guilds and solo players into teams, so there can be as many teams as needed (as long as it's a multiple of 3). But of course with changes only happening between match-ups.

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

2 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I think that's what world restructuring is supposed to do.

Instead of players choosing a server they'll choose a guild (or stay solo) and the guild can choose an alliance, but then the game will group alliances, guilds and solo players into teams, so there can be as many teams as needed (as long as it's a multiple of 3). But of course with changes only happening between match-ups.

Not quite, what I think the OP is asking for here is a live instance just like PvE maps that adjusts based on the online population. World restructuring won't do that for among other things, the scoring, you can't just open and close WvW instances because of how it is calculated.

[Danikat.8537]

12 minutes ago, Remus Darkblight.1673 said:

Not quite, what I think the OP is asking for here is a live instance just like PvE maps that adjusts based on the online population. World restructuring won't do that for among other things, the scoring, you can't just open and close WvW instances because of how it is calculated.

Yeah but as many people (including you) have pointed out what the OP asked for would be a bad idea for several reasons. World restructuring is supposed to achieve the same overall goal of ensuring we don't have 'empty' teams and one-sided or dead match-ups by making it easier for Anet to ensure all the teams are roughly the same size and limiting how many WvW guilds can pile into the same one, but without disregarding or breaking things like scoring.

It will be more long-term, balancing activity over a whole match rather than whenever enough people leave for the day, but instancing doesn't guarantee 24/7 coverage in PvE either. Last night I was playing in Verdant Brink on EU and the night phase started at 11pm BST (so midnight or 1am in mainland Europe) and even with the meta event starting up the map noticeably emptied out and there were no adverts in LFG, because it was too late for a lot of people and they were going to bed.

Of course we don't know how world restructuring will work in reality yet, because we've only had short betas, but it should at least mean no one will get bad matchups because they're on a 'dead' server and can't afford to transfer to a more active one.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Bring Edge of the Mists back in line with WvW and it would fit the OPs idea of what they are looking for. But that might draw players from the regular matchup and those looking to try and game the game, which is why it was 'nerfed' in the past.

[Chrome.9841]

Adding new servers for WvW or improving servers and increasing player capacity is better choice I think. But they will probably keep their sources for the new game.

If they turn It population based, depending on which side to create a new instance?  For example, X server has que for ebg but enemy Y server not; they created a new instance for X but who will they fight against? (Lemme know if I got it wrong that what you meant)

[TheGrimm.5624]

6 minutes ago, Chrome.9841 said:

Adding new servers for WvW or improving servers and increasing player capacity is better choice I think. But they will probably keep their sources for the new game.

If new game you mean GW3, I think we are still a long ways out for that so players should focus on GW2 until you see Anet discuss it versus a board report. Agree though create incentive for more players to join in the game mode would be the best option.

6 minutes ago, Chrome.9841 said:

If they turn It population based, depending on which side to create a new instance?  For example, X server has que for ebg but enemy Y server not; they created a new instance for X but who will they fight against? (Lemme know if I got it wrong that what you meant)

This is also why they didn't add EotM to warscore and gamers figured out how to try and farm it. Not sure I agree there wasn't work arounds there with additional logic that couldn't have addressed both issues though. Especially since this might also occur in the WR system and we might be back to raising some of the same issues as were seen when EotM was in its prime. 

[WRay.2391]

On 4/9/2024 at 10:36 PM, i love guildwars.6874 said:

I want WvW to be instantiated. It's too deserted. Currently, the rivalry between servers or the alliance system is meaningless. I think it would be better to go to the instance system for WvW like PVE. I wish WVW would be instantiated by integrating the server like PVE.

I personally play during the time population changes on my servers. Server goes from full defense to offence and map domination, sometimes vice versa. I like to see this dynamic and really enjoy it.

[SweetPotato.7456]

 

"Instantiated" means to provide concrete evidence or an instance to support a concept, theory, or claim. It can also mean to represent an abstraction by a concrete instance. For example, "You say you believe in unicorns, but so far you haven't been able to instantiate that belief". 

 

 

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Sounds like a good idea. I think to solve a lot of problems brought up in the thread, the servers just have to be selectable and people can go on into the instances map, so that it’s not completely random. By and large it’s already like this (under the server system) but with a number of clunky restrictions like waiting a week and paying 400 gold.

my view is that if they (servers) were more like instances, where maps open and close, you won’t have a bandwagon effect because instances close and would probably do so quiete often….finding out how to band wagon would be too much of a hassle across several different guilds to stack.

to solve the scoring and points system…that’s a different story. I think maybe worth a discussion is getting rid of server worlds and just narrow it down to blue, red or green world. If you decide to select red world today that’s the side your gonna fight for and gain points for. If you check up with green world tomorrow, that’s the side your gonna fight for and gain points for that day.

Points will still be meaningless as they are now…but I don’t think its an issue related to server system.

Also wanted to mention that with instance selection, showing the number of players in the instance would greatly help guild groups get into the instance with their group probably.

Edited April 14 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[joneirikb.7506]

As Grim has pointed out already, this already exists in the game and is called EotM. And all they really have to do to make that active, is give PIPS in EotM and it will likely become just as popular as it was back in the day when it had good rewards. The downside of that, is that normal WvW would wither up and die even further, and we'd get almost no new players in. So it would be the same old neckbeards and grognards we already got, endlessly complaining about stuff while not even filling EBG, wondering why WvW feels to dead.

So it's as much a question of what ANet wants to do with the mode, and how they want to deal with it. The fact that they've kept normal WvW for as long as they have, and not just rolled everything over to EotM mode 5+ years ago, shows that there's still someone in the dev-team that cares enough about the mode to fight for keeping it. Otherwise I think they'd already have moved WvW over to EotM long ago just for a rewardtrack-karmatrain-farm map and moved on.

Personally, I think that if ANet wanted to go the route to make the largest amount of players happy, they should enable pips in EotM and just shut down old WvW. You'd get a small group of very angry players, and a very large group of players that would think "Ah that's a bit nice, now I don't have to go into that sweaty EBG to grind out my gift any longer." essentially. Naturally that would have some very interesting repercussions down the line.

/rant

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

On 4/12/2024 at 3:24 PM, Danikat.8537 said:

Yeah but as many people (including you) have pointed out what the OP asked for would be a bad idea for several reasons. World restructuring is supposed to achieve the same overall goal of ensuring we don't have 'empty' teams and one-sided or dead match-ups by making it easier for Anet to ensure all the teams are roughly the same size and limiting how many WvW guilds can pile into the same one, but without disregarding or breaking things like scoring.

It will be more long-term, balancing activity over a whole match rather than whenever enough people leave for the day, but instancing doesn't guarantee 24/7 coverage in PvE either. Last night I was playing in Verdant Brink on EU and the night phase started at 11pm BST (so midnight or 1am in mainland Europe) and even with the meta event starting up the map noticeably emptied out and there were no adverts in LFG, because it was too late for a lot of people and they were going to bed.

Of course we don't know how world restructuring will work in reality yet, because we've only had short betas, but it should at least mean no one will get bad matchups because they're on a 'dead' server and can't afford to transfer to a more active one.

I don't think there really is such a thing as a "dead" match up at the moment, all servers will have their quiet and busy periods (yes some will have longer and more frequent quiet/busy periods than others), it's the same with every game mode. Take your example, there is a rush event on at the moment and even one of the rush maps is dead at certain times of day.

Now there is such a thing as "bad" match-ups where one server effectively gets bullied and farmed into players actively leaving the game mode for the match, and that is something that world restructuring will (hopefully) address. It's just unfortunate when a given players personal schedule happens to coincide with their server being less active.

[Gehenna.3625]

The problem with this idea is that you have unequal player numbers and thus opening new instances when a map is full won't solve the problem but is likely to create instances with very unequal populations. You know, like an instance in PvE where you're put in an instance with too few people to actually do the meta successfully. So then people start queueing for another instance. Or a raid is going to a new instance entirely where they can just ppt around without resistance and then the original map is struggling to defend itself against an overwhelming force.

These are the sort of situations that you should think about first.

[Mabi black.1824]

On 4/10/2024 at 7:36 AM, i love guildwars.6874 said:

I want WvW to be instantiated.

I don't, I want teams/servers that manifest a similar flow (players and hours of play), I want Anet to define when the streams have an acceptable differential, based on which ANET guarantees a good competitive team system on a weekly basis, I want an extraordinary reset if that differential gets out of control, I want a new scoring system complete with an annual competitive season,   And I want a beautiful symbolic prize for the server/team that wins. A beautiful golden carrot to hang around your neck, so you can brag and say that ''I will wax when we won the 2024 season''. And while we're at it, I want my warrior to get automatic invisibility when attacking on the front lines.Just because I want a better class balance, without conceding too much to anyone, mind you.🤭