New Professions or Elite specializations.

[Fit.9405]

Even now when the game is over a decade old. I still want a minstrel class. It was joked at one point but honestly there are many references to it through out the game. with waypoint names and gear stats named after it. I think it could fit either the Guardian or Mesmer for an elite spec. With adding a war horn as the Specializations weapon and shouts for the new utility skills.  What are other Professions or Elite specs you would enjoy seeing in the world of Tyria ? 

[QueenKeriti.5176]

Still waiting for longbow ele :(

[Fit.9405]

tbh i wasn't expecting hammer to be given to them since you could conjure one. But that being said that gives us hope for the future ^_^ . 

[Therac.6431]

Longbow or Greatsword Ele are reserved to GW3, i cant believe on that pistol instead one of them.
 

[Gop.8713]

Too many specs already. Balance is hopeless. I'd rather see them cut ten than add one . . .

[Ultramex.1506]

I'm more interest about how they gonna add new traits line without weapon restriction. This can't be the end right?

[Gehenna.3625]

Still wanting Paragon as a Warrior Elite spec and Ritualist as Necromancer Elite spec... however, I say wanting and not waiting for. And it's my opinion that they can't even balance the current elite specs even remotely, so why add to that mess?

[TwistedAlga.4235]

On 4/28/2024 at 12:30 PM, Gehenna.3625 said:

Still wanting Paragon as a Warrior Elite spec and Ritualist as Necromancer Elite spec... however, I say wanting and not waiting for. And it's my opinion that they can't even balance the current elite specs even remotely, so why add to that mess?

I'm the same as you. I am still waiting and hoping one day they will giving us Paragon, Dervish, Ritualist and even Monk again!

Paragon, Dervish and Ritualist was my favorite professions back in GW1, and of course none of them made it fully to GW2. 

[Fit.9405]

My guild and decided to go back and play gw1. since most of us are starting from gw2. And tbh with you gw1 is really amazing sad i didnt play it in the hay day but we can still enjoy it today. im currently leveling as a mnk/war . My main in gw2 is a guardian so it feels pretty nice. 

[Inssengrimm.7924]

I think ArenaNet just don't understand how important is class fantasy.
Elite Specializations should have never went away, and definitely need to return. 

Also new weapons.

But something like the Weapon Mastery of this expansion just won't do. In fact in retrofeed they should add an Elite Spec for every weapon set of this expansion in the following, to correct the mistake of not having Elite Specs.

[Mascarun.7910]

Anet should completely rework elementalist before they add new elite specs or god forbid new professions. I want new things too, but their conceptualisation, design and balance for existing content all leave a lot to be desired. 

[Panda.1967]

I still want to see Ritualist, Dervish, & Paragon added as new professions… and those three all line up quite well as Light, Medium, Heavy armor respectively. Monk would be nice to see returned too, but if I have to choose between Monk & Ritualist I will always choose Ritualist…

SotO had some serious missed opportunities for some good elite specs with the new core weapons… heck, Paragon would have fit perfectly as a Warrior elite spec even… would prefer it as a full profession though…

Personally… I like the concept of elite specs, but I would much rather we just get new professions in their entirety…

elite specs are often held back by the limitations of the core profession’s basic class mechanics… elementalists must have attunements, mesmers must do something with clones (even if it is turn them into blades), necromancers must have a use for lifeforce, warriors must use adrenaline, guardians must have virtues, ranger must always have a pet in some way, revenant & thief literally can’t have anything changed… engineer is the only profession they have ever ignored the base class mechanic on and look how that turned out… they got the most overtuned signet skills ever to compensate for the loss of toolbelt skills.

Revenant, Thief, & Elementalist are the three professions who’s class mechanics hold them back the most in regards to elite spec design, because all three of them have base mechanics that are so integral to the functionality of the profession that they absolutely must be left fully intact… there is no room to play around with their mechcanics. For revenant it’s kind of worse since it was literally designed to have elite specs tacked on as new legends. It is the only profession that doesn’t ever actually experience meaningful changes with elite specs. Vindicator is the only one that managed to make the profession feel even slightly different by changing how it’s dodging works.

honestly, rather than new eite specs I would much rather see them expand upon existing skill sets for each profession… add a new skill of each type, address long standing issues, and rework trait lines that are underwhelming.

Edited May 2 by Panda.1967

[draxynnic.3719]

13 hours ago, Panda.1967 said:

I still want to see Ritualist, Dervish, & Paragon added as new professions… and those three all line up quite well as Light, Medium, Heavy armor respectively. Monk would be nice to see returned too, but if I have to choose between Monk & Ritualist I will always choose Ritualist…

SotO had some serious missed opportunities for some good elite specs with the new core weapons… heck, Paragon would have fit perfectly as a Warrior elite spec even… would prefer it as a full profession though…

Personally… I like the concept of elite specs, but I would much rather we just get new professions in their entirety…

elite specs are often held back by the limitations of the core profession’s basic class mechanics… elementalists must have attunements, mesmers must do something with clones (even if it is turn them into blades), necromancers must have a use for lifeforce, warriors must use adrenaline, guardians must have virtues, ranger must always have a pet in some way, revenant & thief literally can’t have anything changed… engineer is the only profession they have ever ignored the base class mechanic on and look how that turned out… they got the most overtuned signet skills ever to compensate for the loss of toolbelt skills.

Revenant, Thief, & Elementalist are the three professions who’s class mechanics hold them back the most in regards to elite spec design, because all three of them have base mechanics that are so integral to the functionality of the profession that they absolutely must be left fully intact… there is no room to play around with their mechcanics. For revenant it’s kind of worse since it was literally designed to have elite specs tacked on as new legends. It is the only profession that doesn’t ever actually experience meaningful changes with elite specs. Vindicator is the only one that managed to make the profession feel even slightly different by changing how it’s dodging works.

honestly, rather than new eite specs I would much rather see them expand upon existing skill sets for each profession… add a new skill of each type, address long standing issues, and rework trait lines that are underwhelming.

Huh. If you ask me, thief is one of the professions that feels the most different due to its elite specialisations. Every thief elite specialisation feels like it's aimed at doing something very different, unlike, say, warrior, which is just three different ways to spend enough time building up a resource that most trash mobs are probably already dead and then bursting it. Steal as a mechanic is very similar to guardian virtues in that it doesn't lock down design space much - it always has to be something that can target an enemy due to trait interactions, but apart from that it can be swapped for virtually anything else and have other elite spec mechanics added on top.

[Panda.1967]

9 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Huh. If you ask me, thief is one of the professions that feels the most different due to its elite specialisations. Every thief elite specialisation feels like it's aimed at doing something very different, unlike, say, warrior, which is just three different ways to spend enough time building up a resource that most trash mobs are probably already dead and then bursting it. Steal as a mechanic is very similar to guardian virtues in that it doesn't lock down design space much - it always has to be something that can target an enemy due to trait interactions, but apart from that it can be swapped for virtually anything else and have other elite spec mechanics added on top.

Steal isnt the mechanic that holds thief back and keeps every spec feeling the same… Initiative is… Warrior could have an espec that doesn't use adrenaline, but unless it is replaced with something similar (like flow for bladesworn) it renders several traits and skills from core warrior useless… a Thief however can’t have an elite spec that doesn’t use Initiative due to how intrinsically tied the mechanic is to the core functionality of the whole profession… just like how Elementalist can’t have an elite spec without Attunements and Revenant can’t have an elite spec without Legends. These three professions are restricted by those core mechanics. The mechanics for all other professions can potentially be manipulated altered or outright replaced with little to no issues.

Adrenaline doesn't restrict the design of Warriors because it can be replaced and altered to fit the needs of the elite spec.

Life Force & Shroud don't limit the design of Necromancers for the same reason.

Mesmers don’t have to have clones or even shatters.

Guardians can swap out Virtues for nearly anything.

Engineers clearly don’t need to have Toolbelt skills given the fact that ANet so readily replaced them all for Mech.

Rangers don’t actually have to have a pet, and ANet seems to have no issues just adding new mechanics to them without really taking anything away too…

[Dadnir.5038]

52 minutes ago, Panda.1967 said:

Steal isnt the mechanic that holds thief back and keeps every spec feeling the same… Initiative is… Warrior could have an espec that doesn't use adrenaline, but unless it is replaced with something similar (like flow for bladesworn) it renders several traits and skills from core warrior useless… a Thief however can’t have an elite spec that doesn’t use Initiative due to how intrinsically tied the mechanic is to the core functionality of the whole profession… just like how Elementalist can’t have an elite spec without Attunements and Revenant can’t have an elite spec without Legends. These three professions are restricted by those core mechanics. The mechanics for all other professions can potentially be manipulated altered or outright replaced with little to no issues.

Adrenaline doesn't restrict the design of Warriors because it can be replaced and altered to fit the needs of the elite spec.

Life Force & Shroud don't limit the design of Necromancers for the same reason.

Mesmers don’t have to have clones or even shatters.

Guardians can swap out Virtues for nearly anything.

Engineers clearly don’t need to have Toolbelt skills given the fact that ANet so readily replaced them all for Mech.

Rangers don’t actually have to have a pet, and ANet seems to have no issues just adding new mechanics to them without really taking anything away too…

I do believe that you are twisting a few thing here and there.

Thief have 3 main mechanics: Steal, initiative and stealth attack. And the devs don't have any issue tinkering with at least 2 out of these 3 mechanics.

Elementalist is as tied to attunments than necromancer is tied to shroud mainly due to the overwhelming amount of core traits that affect those. That said, elementalist could have a single skillset on all it's weapons instead of 4 skillsets per weapon and use attunment swap in a different way than merely accessing new skills. Introducing this would barely be more work than creating a single 2 handed weapon skillset for elementalist.

Legend swaping on revenant could work differently as well. They currently all offer their own utility skillset but there could be a common utility skillset which would be "tainted" by the legend channeled.

[Panda.1967]

2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I do believe that you are twisting a few thing here and there.

Thief have 3 main mechanics: Steal, initiative and stealth attack. And the devs don't have any issue tinkering with at least 2 out of these 3 mechanics.

Elementalist is as tied to attunments than necromancer is tied to shroud mainly due to the overwhelming amount of core traits that affect those. That said, elementalist could have a single skillset on all it's weapons instead of 4 skillsets per weapon and use attunment swap in a different way than merely accessing new skills. Introducing this would barely be more work than creating a single 2 handed weapon skillset for elementalist.

Legend swaping on revenant could work differently as well. They currently all offer their own utility skillset but there could be a common utility skillset which would be "tainted" by the legend channeled.

Changes like those will never happen to elementalist or revenant.

For elementalist to remove attunement swapping for a spec would require they either A) create a whole new set of weapon skills for each elementalist weapon designed to function without attunements, or B) selectively pick skills from each attunement to create a coherent and fully functional weapon skill kit for each weapon. Currently elementalist weapons are designed with attunements in mind allotting them greater flexibility in skill design since each attunement can hold different utility and function. They dont need to be insure access to CC, combos, boons, etc… somewhere in the 5 slot weapon skill set, but rather somewhere in the 20 slot weapon skill kit. Its why elementalist can have a weapon that is pure power in fire, condi on earth, support on water, and CC on air and other such combinations. Removing attunements for an elite spec is a much bigger undertaking than you think it is. We are far more likely to see a 5th attunement added with an elite spec than to ever see them removed for one.

While it would be interesting to see something like what you proposed for Revenant, it too would never happen. Revenant is in the unique position of having virtually no build diversity as a direct result of its design. And funny enough, even if they did do what you said it would actually be no different than how revenant already is design wise… 5 preset utility skills with some functionality change with legend is hardly any different from 5 preset utility skills that change with legend… infact you could argue it would be actively worse than just leaving it as is. 

The Revenant situation there actually perfectly highlights the actual issue as to why those three mechanics are as limiting to design potential as they are… there is no feasible way to really alter, remove, or replace these mechanics that wouldn’t result in a noticeable loss in effectiveness of the professions. 

Regarding the thief, of course they have no problems tinkering with steal and stealth attack… those are literally the only mechanics on thief they even can tinker with… they have touched Initiative only one time, halving it on Spectre, and it has done nothing but cause problems… the only real way they can do anything to initiative is if they remove it and give thief normal weapon skill CDs but that would be a nerf. Stealth attack and steal could both vanish from thief and it wouldn’t really make an impact, they are as tacked on as most class mechanics… initiative however is completely integrated in the core function of the profession.

[Dadnir.5038]

4 minutes ago, Panda.1967 said:

A) create a whole new set of weapon skills for each elementalist weapon designed to function without attunements

Like I said it's barely a few more skills than what they would need to create a 2 handed weapon for elementalist anyway. If there is one thing that the devs aren't affraid of create it's skills for elementalist. With the current weapons of the elementalist they would just need to create 28 skills, which isn't much considering that they've already created 54 skills for weaver (counting dual skills and sword skills only, AA chains counting for a single skill, else it would be 62... 69 if you take into account the utilities).

15 minutes ago, Panda.1967 said:

While it would be interesting to see something like what you proposed for Revenant, it too would never happen. Revenant is in the unique position of having virtually no build diversity as a direct result of its design. And funny enough, even if they did do what you said it would actually be no different than how revenant already is design wise… 5 preset utility skills with some functionality change with legend is hardly any different from 5 preset utility skills that change with legend… infact you could argue it would be actively worse than just leaving it as is. 

You're limiting yourself to a "norm". It might be an unsaid rule that an e-spec gain no more than 6 utility skills but the devs can very well break this rule if they really want it. Again, look at weaver, making skills in itself isn't an issue for the devs, they can shower the game with skills if they are really motivated. Also, it would allow racial skills to be used an open up again the possibility for "shared" utilities between professions, which could free some room for "new content" when it come to mini expansions.

26 minutes ago, Panda.1967 said:

Stealth attack and steal could both vanish from thief and it wouldn’t really make an impact, they are as tacked on as most class mechanics… initiative however is completely integrated in the core function of the profession.

That's not an issue in itself. Not every core profession have 3 mechanics that can be tinkered with. Most often it's just a single mechanic. I mean, it feel like you're complaining that thief have to many main mechanics and that the only one you'd hope to see being tinkered with can't be tinkered with (which, again, is arguable as they could just slap CDs on thiefs' weapon skills for an e-specs and use initiative in a different way).

[Tobias.4975]

I think new e-specs are very unlikely, likewise a new profession. But if there are plans for a new profession, then make it a so called "Champion-Profession" You can unlock it as a reward of a long achievement-line so you don't need to do 3 e-specs. (hope you know what i mean). Maybe there might be options for more than one Champion.

The first one i prefer is the Bard.

Class-Mechanic:

The ressource, call it Rythmus, works a bit like combo-points. For the "grand final" you can open a timed "shroud" at cost of all of your ressource. More ressource spent, longer duration.  Many of your related skills can be enhancet by using your ressource. So you need to decide is it time for shroud or do i spare it for utility .To generate ressource you need to use your weapon-skills, or maybe a passive in a traitline.

The weapons may got an instrumental touch. (Orchestral weapons are cool, but not what i mean). For example, mace-skills could work like a maraca (bashing the rythm out of your enemy^^).

With MH-Sword, Warhorn, Focus, Maces, Daggers (ranged), Shortbow, evtl. Longbow, you stand against all ods.

Related Skills may be:

Warcry: got bonus-effect by using ressource

Songs: work a bit like Glint-Facet, but stronger and with limited duration, duration/effect greater if you spend ressource.

Poems: 2-3 sec cast time for great effect. Maybe some little effects in an intervall, with great ending., same if you spend ressource you got a greater effect.

Instruments:: What should i say: Works like engi-kit every instrument got it's place (or not). Lute, Drum, FLute, what the heart of a Musician seeks.

Improvisation: May contain skills that extend boons, condis, gain you a fix amount of ressources fix, or over time, a skill, call it "Encore" that mimics your last utility-skill

Not every one likes bards, and sadly they are more a meme than a pick. But i like them,

A song can heal the deepest wound, and strike your foes with decibel.

 

Edited Saturday at 08:47 AM by Tobias.4975

[Antycypator.9874]

EoD showed us that there's barely room for "new" specs. Half of them is literally copy-paste X class mechanic to Y class, e.g. Necromancer (shroud) -> Specter. Ranger (pet) -> Mechanist. Engineer (weapon kit) - > Bladesworn. Daredevil (playstyle&mobility) -> Willbender. They're not NEW elite specs. You probably played them for years.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

14 minutes ago, Antycypator.9874 said:

EoD showed us that there's barely room for "new" specs. Half of them is literally copy-paste X class mechanic to Y class, e.g. Necromancer (shroud) -> Specter. Ranger (pet) -> Mechanist. Engineer (weapon kit) - > Bladesworn. Daredevil (playstyle&mobility) -> Willbender. They're not NEW elite specs. You probably played them for years.

Sure, if you divorce the mechanics from the base classes. But an espec is much more than it's profession mechanic. Mechanists may have a pet, but they still don't play anything like a ranger and have all the kits and tools an engineer can bring to the table. Same for willbender. It might be mobile, but it's never going to be able to stealth like a thief, the same way a daredevil is never going to be able to slam down support/stability/etc. like a guardian.

If anything, EoD especs are class-specific iterations of GW's popular secondary professions, without actually letting you choose a secondary profession for your toon.

Anyone who says there isn't design space for new classes/specs, just isn't putting in the effort. Here's a few below I came up with one day. Whether you like them or not is irrelevant; they are new designs and playstyles that are not in the game for existing professions. Now if Anet can balance more especs is another issue entirely...

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

22 hours ago, Antycypator.9874 said:

EoD showed us that there's barely room for "new" specs. Half of them is literally copy-paste X class mechanic to Y class, e.g. Necromancer (shroud) -> Specter. Ranger (pet) -> Mechanist. Engineer (weapon kit) - > Bladesworn. Daredevil (playstyle&mobility) -> Willbender. They're not NEW elite specs. You probably played them for years.

I think it's more a matter of the devs reaching the limits of their imagination than a matter of "room for new specs". And this is despite players continuously feeding them with new ideas.

That said, personally, I do think that there is still a lot of room left to introduce new "character content" through different mean than what they already offer. There is also still a lot of room for polishing what each profession already have access to.

[Gesbo.6420]

I am dying for new elite specs but at this point I would also take just a new specialisation. This way we can have 6 specs, and 3 elites and the box will look neat and clear and nicely separated...