When is the next no-downstate week?

[TheGrimm.5624]

Just now, Dawdler.8521 said:

That's rally, I was talking about only one person being able to res a downed player (or as mentioned, significantly nerfed speeds for multiple people).

Fair, and that's a test that would be interesting to see in an event.

[Mabi black.1824]

Please read carefully what the author of this post asked. It is not opening up to any discussion what is better or worse or what is permanent or not. It's just a question/request directly to Anet to see a week-long event in WVW. And since it's been a long time since we've seen events in WVW. I reinforce and reinforce the question pertaining to ANET.

Anet can we still have event weeks in WVW?

if you grant them to us on a monthly - bi-monthly - semi-annual basis, And if they were of a different gender from each other, I think they would be appreciated by many. ✌️

[MedievalThings.5417]

1 minute ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

The only thing I think I have figured out in all our downstate and no downstate conversations is its complicated and its not just one thing or another on both sides. 

Sadly, the discussion is moot (not between players, just in general).  Anet is on the side of attackers/boonblobs/ktrainers.  Nerf siege, nerf wall health, nerf tactics, nerf boon strips, buff boons, add shield gens, buff boons more, nerf tactics again, nerf walls again, buff boons again, nerf boon strip further...the pattern is pretty clear.  So, there is almost zero chance of another no-downstate event happening.  It would be nice to see some balance, changes, ANYTHING.  But, we aren't going to get it.  The game mode is summed up by 2 devs playing wvw, fighting inside Klovan with a comped group of about 40 farming 5 pugs over and over who just wanted to try and save the tower.  And after commenting that they were having fun, someone in chat asked if the 5 were having fun, to which they replied yes.  And added, if they weren't having fun, they could always transfer.

[TheGrimm.5624]

3 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

Please read carefully what the author of this post asked. It is not opening up to any discussion what is better or worse or what is permanent or not. It's just a question/request directly to Anet to see a week-long event in WVW. And since it's been a long time since we've seen events in WVW. I reinforce and reinforce the question pertaining to ANET.

Anet can we still have event weeks in WVW?

if you grant them to us on a monthly - bi-monthly - semi-annual basis, And if they were of a different gender from each other, I think they would be appreciated by many. ✌️

Not wrong as usual lol. If I ever get time to be less slack I will come and visit, right now, I have a lot to do on this side and more stacking up it seems. Times be changing. Good hunting my friend!

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 minutes ago, MedievalThings.5417 said:

Sadly, the discussion is moot (not between players, just in general).  Anet is on the side of attackers/boonblobs/ktrainers.  Nerf siege, nerf wall health, nerf tactics, nerf boon strips, buff boons, add shield gens, buff boons more, nerf tactics again, nerf walls again, buff boons again, nerf boon strip further...the pattern is pretty clear.  So, there is almost zero chance of another no-downstate event happening.  It would be nice to see some balance, changes, ANYTHING.  But, we aren't going to get it.  The game mode is summed up by 2 devs playing wvw, fighting inside Klovan with a comped group of about 40 farming 5 pugs over and over who just wanted to try and save the tower.  And after commenting that they were having fun, someone in chat asked if the 5 were having fun, to which they replied yes.  And added, if they weren't having fun, they could always transfer.

I am a half-empty glass in real life. I try and play the role of half-full in virtual to balance things out. Right now I am trying to see if we can make smaller rings as traps for larger groups. So I agree in general but I appreciate changes and am trying to figure out can that work to an advantage somewhere. And yes I agree, I am on the side that attackers had the edge, just think they weren't using it in a lot of cases. 

[XenesisII.1540]

Is it time to discuss this again?...

 

 

[Gorani.7205]

4 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Not sure I agree here. I won't speak for others but no downstate weeks encourages smaller groups and roamers to dive in more and see how many they can out.

In my case, I tend to play less as a roamer and scout during no down state events, because the numbers of "pew pew from afar/stealth" enemy players that try to one-shot you (mainly DE rifles, ranged Souldbeast and Virtuosos), disengage when they are not successful and very likely try again later sky-rocket.  That is not a fun WvW environment for myself.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

I hope there will be no more no downstate weeks EVER.

They are only appreciated by one-shot and stealth abuse players. 

Now a 'no stealth' week THAT would be welcome.

Edited May 1 by VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

4 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

Please read carefully what the author of this post asked. It is not opening up to any discussion what is better or worse or what is permanent or not. It's just a question/request directly to Anet to see a week-long event in WVW. And since it's been a long time since we've seen events in WVW. I reinforce and reinforce the question pertaining to ANET.

Anet can we still have event weeks in WVW?

if you grant them to us on a monthly - bi-monthly - semi-annual basis, And if they were of a different gender from each other, I think they would be appreciated by many. ✌️

Exactly. I'm not asking to take away downstate forever or even change revive mechanics. I'm just asking for the event that used to occur annually. I know they aren't going to do no-downstate week every month. But there is a chance they'll bring back the literal only interesting wvw event that isn't just a buff to reward track.

In fact, I'd take anything. Anet, you want to change repairs and siege? Fine. Buff boon balls and cater things more in favor of zerging over individual play? Okay. However, at least give us SOMETHING, anything that shakes things up from the norm.

Edit: I would genuinely laugh if they made a 50% boon and heal buff week instead 😂. Or a no walls and gates week lol.

Edited May 1 by Verdict is Vengence.6912

[Stash.8401]

I hope it comes back soon, those weeks of WvW are always the most fun. You don't have to worry about rallybots and much more skill required by everyone as a whole. No more resurrection skill spam, small coordinated groups gain an edge towards large unorganized blobs. It's always exciting to take a smaller group and see how many you can take out of the larger group before they finally get you rather than pushing into a larger group getting a bunch of downs and they instantly get resurrected by whatever skill was used, which is cheesy no skill gameplay.

Edited May 1 by Stash.8401

[urd.8306]

Never again would be too early.

[kash.9213]

8 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Not sure I agree here. I won't speak for others but no downstate weeks encourages smaller groups and roamers to dive in more and see how many they can out. But it may be I am mental and seeing what players can impact during those weeks. 

Maybe server to server experience varies, but I see zergs being able to more easily clean up since they don't have to slow down to deal with downed and even those on the peripheral who normally snowball a dismantling of a squad comps are second guessing those attempts. 

It's also a bit baffling that the forum that regularly frames thieves and thief adjacent anything as game breaking be so eager to make things easier for them. 

[kash.9213]

Page locked up. Double post. 

Edited May 1 by kash.9213

[TheGrimm.5624]

55 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

Maybe server to server experience varies, but I see zergs being able to more easily clean up since they don't have to slow down to deal with downed and even those on the peripheral who normally snowball a dismantling of a squad comps are second guessing those attempts. 

It's also a bit baffling that the forum that regularly frames thieves and thief adjacent anything as game breaking be so eager to make things easier for them. 

I get that point and understand. Mind you I will try and attack 1 v 6 to practice that and see what I can do on the build. Xen sometimes sends me 50, that I admit is too many but I try anyway. I see downstate week as the same. I just would like to see a week where they also can't be rezzed so that they also have to run back from spawn versus just slowing a larger group.

Side note: Would still be interested in seeing a week where walls are left damaged after an objective is taken. Granted this is off topic but could be an interesting week. More damage you do breaking in, more you have to deal with after taking it. But gain off topic and not related to your reply Kash.

[kash.9213]

5 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

I get that point and understand. Mind you I will try and attack 1 v 6 to practice that and see what I can do on the build. Xen sometimes sends me 50, that I admit is too many but I try anyway. I see downstate week as the same. I just would like to see a week where they also can't be rezzed so that they also have to run back from spawn versus just slowing a larger group.

Side note: Would still be interested in seeing a week where walls are left damaged after an objective is taken. Granted this is off topic but could be an interesting week. More damage you do breaking in, more you have to deal with after taking it. But gain off topic and not related to your reply Kash.

If it's just Downed but can't be rezzed after full death that would be fun. It would be great if WvW mechanics had some additives that encouraged a pace that would naturally form lines, formations, and team movement. But the lack of activity outside blobs and roaming might still make that a slog for people who are dying.

[TheGrimm.5624]

24 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

But the lack of activity outside blobs and roaming might still make that a slog for people who are dying.

🙂 Slog.

I think that's part of the WvW update that sunk into my mind as well. "we also want to encourage player interaction so that large portions of attacks against structures don't feel like a slog". I noticed myself typing slog a couple of times and had to remove. The irony I find is they used slog but with the papering of more keeps more players have to spend more time running back to a fight already, so players are already having to get used to do more running.

The reason I would be interested in seeing defeated players not being able to rezzed is that it would have equal impact for both the side with more and the side with less. Defeated is out and has to come back. Right now even in a no downstate week defeated still can be brought back as long as you win, which today usually means, having more. Where as the side with less that is defeated have to run back regardless. But again I am looking at this from a defender view point and your points about a larger side also having an edge if they focus fire is quite valid as well so please don't read it from that angel since that was not the intention. I see no downstate as a partial balancing factor when less try and take on more. Personally I vote to keep downstate since I think the better middle group is an adjustment to it so that it feels less one sided in regards to numbers on all sides of a fight.

 

[kash.9213]

38 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

🙂 Slog.

I think that's part of the WvW update that sunk into my mind as well. "we also want to encourage player interaction so that large portions of attacks against structures don't feel like a slog". I noticed myself typing slog a couple of times and had to remove. The irony I find is they used slog but with the papering of more keeps more players have to spend more time running back to a fight already, so players are already having to get used to do more running.

The reason I would be interested in seeing defeated players not being able to rezzed is that it would have equal impact for both the side with more and the side with less. Defeated is out and has to come back. Right now even in a no downstate week defeated still can be brought back as long as you win, which today usually means, having more. Where as the side with less that is defeated have to run back regardless. But again I am looking at this from a defender view point and your points about a larger side also having an edge if they focus fire is quite valid as well so please don't read it from that angel since that was not the intention. I see no downstate as a partial balancing factor when less try and take on more. Personally I vote to keep downstate since I think the better middle group is an adjustment to it so that it feels less one sided in regards to numbers on all sides of a fight.

 

Being able to be rezzed after a full death hurts our own side also, you know who you are lying there watching us get wrecked instead of running back, which is another reason to axe it along with Rally, under certain conditions though (right now, lag and a lack of other stuff to do could make that largely problematic and discouraging). Aside from that, I'd also take out all of the Downed skills apart from Auto maybe and give everyone a very Slow Crawl and a link-up G skill maybe that lets them grab a nearby friendly to be dragged, but that friendly also has to choose to target and drag that Downed player. 

There was a fun Doctor or Combat Medic skill in Starwars Galaxies that allowed you to drag a fallen teammate, and that was fun but also a gamble, but also pretty simple focusing entirely on the teamwork dynamic. 

Edited May 1 by kash.9213

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

No downed state disables an entire skill-type/category. It is about as lame as disabling crowd control or stealth for a week. If your class uses the mechanic, joke is on you. If you do not, you could not care less.

The game was built around having downed-state. Upon removing it, even temporarily, we create a massive imbalance. In short, you have to basically re-write the entire combat & stat system from scratch to get a balanced/fair approach. We know from the past events that there is no compensation, it is just disabled. Which usually results in a lot of players going full GC, turning WvW into a Heaven or Hell mode (dmc series) for a week.

Given the amount of trolls and other jerks in the game mode, I'd rather be happy about a friendly-fire week. Where you can kill allied players if you ... let's say hold CTRL while attacking. Even if you cannot get any loot from those kills, it would be a lot of fun.

[Chrome.9841]

That's actually a great time to add it to WvW permanently since its a quite defensive meta, they can keep revive skills with longer cd but can revive fully dead people. That also gives new oppurtunities for support builds.

[TheGrimm.5624]

4 hours ago, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

No downed state disables an entire skill-type/category. It is about as lame as disabling crowd control or stealth for a week. If your class uses the mechanic, joke is on you. If you do not, you could not care less.

The game was built around having downed-state. Upon removing it, even temporarily, we create a massive imbalance. In short, you have to basically re-write the entire combat & stat system from scratch to get a balanced/fair approach. We know from the past events that there is no compensation, it is just disabled. Which usually results in a lot of players going full GC, turning WvW into a Heaven or Hell mode (dmc series) for a week.

Given the amount of trolls and other jerks in the game mode, I'd rather be happy about a friendly-fire week. Where you can kill allied players if you ... let's say hold CTRL while attacking. Even if you cannot get any loot from those kills, it would be a lot of fun.

Helldiver detected! If in doubt, leap in and yell for Democracy! And charge fourth! We will win this for Lib-er-ty! 

[Zyreva.1078]

5 hours ago, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

No downed state disables an entire skill-type/category. It is about as lame as disabling crowd control or stealth for a week. If your class uses the mechanic, joke is on you. If you do not, you could not care less.

The game was built around having downed-state. Upon removing it, even temporarily, we create a massive imbalance.

There are very few skills/traits that interact with downstate and with one single exception they are all entirely optional (and scrapper's gyro has additional effects) . No class or specs relies on downstate. Just don't slot a rezbot build during no downstate and your build will be fine.

Also downstate itself is highly imbalanced and removing it hardly adds more imbalance. The game still works perfectly fine without downstate. The main purpose of downstate is to make the game easier, it's a carry mechanic, but hardly neccessary or something "the game was built arround".

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Also downstate itself is highly imbalanced and removing it hardly adds more imbalance. The game still works perfectly fine without downstate. The main purpose of downstate is to make the game easier, it's a carry mechanic, but hardly neccessary or something "the game was built arround".

Why do you think GW2 has always been highly rated for its combat system?

It just ends up with contradictions. You say it makes the game easier - but people argue it should be removed to make it easier to kill people, do they not? You argue it’s a carry mechanic - sure, but everyone who want it removed (especially those that play certain builds like thieves for some reason) claim they would have win a fight without it, thus no downstate would carry them instead. 

Also the game really is built around it. Downstate is a core gameplay mechanic, something that add a tactical layer to combat that allow players to have comebacks, work together and most important of all have an appreciation for their teammates. It’s one of the reasons the community isn’t a toxic wasteland of “OmGyOuLEtmEdie!1” but rather “Ty for res man that was close!”. Sure it doesn’t always work (god knows how many stupid teammates there are) but the functionality and possibilities is there. GW2 as a whole has always been lauded for its friendly community and downstate is actually incredibly important for this. 

 

[Zyreva.1078]

16 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Why do you think GW2 has always been highly rated for its combat system?

Responsiveness and fluidity and the combination of a fast-paced action oriented combat with tactical gameplay. Most of which has very little to do with downstate.

17 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

It just ends up with contradictions. You say it makes the game easier - but people argue it should be removed to make it easier to kill people, do they not? You argue it’s a carry mechanic - sure, but everyone who want it removed (especially those that play certain builds like thieves for some reason) claim they would have win a fight without it, thus no downstate would carry them instead.

It is a carry mechanic in the sense that it makes it easy for players to carry other's and therefore both that can carry and those that are getting carried are having an easier time. Ofc this only works if you've got the numbers. Downstate does not benefit those that are on their own or outnumbered.

And that's why i think having downstate - at least in this op state - is problematic in WvW in particular. It benefits those the most that are already at an advantage, therefore aggravating numerical imbalance (and it gets worse the tankier/"stalemate-y" the meta becomes).

But we've had this discussion plenty of times and i'm sure you knew all that already.

[Sansar.1302]

On 5/1/2024 at 9:34 AM, Dawdler.8521 said:

I have said there should be 1:1 ressing (or significantly nerfed multi-heal), harsher/longer penalties for getting up again (and going down from 4->3 penalty states) plus that no rally would be an acceptable compromise for a decade. 

Are we going to go into the same discussions as always of two sides where one side absolutely refuse anything except deleting downstate while the other side can compromise and suggest changes, thus it being the eqvivalent of having a discussion with a brick wall and the brick wall expecting the human to agree?

Down state is stupid and rewards big numbers and unskilled players. 

WvW should be a place where skill is all that matters. 

[urd.8306]

No downstate isn't exactly the situation where skill suddenly matters. Tell me why you think that is?