Erysium.4501 Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 Hello folks! I have a WvW post that to my knowledge has never been introduced. I hope it is understandable as it was translated from German. There are training bots of every class in the PvP lobby (Heart of the Mists). The fighting style of the bots is exciting, but a little weak. I could well imagine such bots as protectors of the lord of the fortress in wvw. The protectors could appear when the lord of the fortress is attacked or maybe only has 50% life left. if you give them the strength of an elite rank and they do a lot of damage, it could make the wvw boss fights more exciting. the feeling of defeating a lord of the fortress is then a greater challenge in the fortresses. I assume that it would be easy for Arenanet to implement. What do you think? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bq pd.2148 Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 anet is terrible at scaling things and it would end up just providing free rallies to larger groups trying to take the fortress while potentially adding a real threat to smaller groups / solos. especially on desert maps it is still quite possible to witness the lords kill smaller groups and solos all by themselves already. now if we could challenge the lord for the structure, so they would summon such bots based on the players about and create a barrier that no player of any team can cross till the fight is decided, that would be alright by me. if the lord were to fall ofc. still need to win the fight over the node. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 2 hours ago, Erysium.4501 said: Hello folks! I have a WvW post that to my knowledge has never been introduced. I hope it is understandable as it was translated from German. There are training bots of every class in the PvP lobby (Heart of the Mists). The fighting style of the bots is exciting, but a little weak. I could well imagine such bots as protectors of the lord of the fortress in wvw. The protectors could appear when the lord of the fortress is attacked or maybe only has 50% life left. if you give them the strength of an elite rank and they do a lot of damage, it could make the wvw boss fights more exciting. the feeling of defeating a lord of the fortress is then a greater challenge in the fortresses. I assume that it would be easy for Arenanet to implement. What do you think? I understand the intent but I think this would just favor numbers. I think the goal has always been that the NPCs are not to be the ones to do the fight but it was the players to actually defend. I don't think we need better NPCs personally since again, its about players versus players in regards to attacking and defending. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riba.3271 Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 (edited) While this might seem great idea on paper for those uneducated, it does fail a bit. Since you are describing the protectors as strong, would they be able to turn tide for 15 to beat 25? What would happen to 25 people vs 25 then? Defenders already have clear advantage in equal numbered fights, wouldn't giving them even further buffs remove willing people to attack completely? If there are no willing attackers then there will be no opportunity defend, and game will be more dead. Defenders should definitely have strategic and siege placement advantage, but introducing unavoidable gimmicks will just ruin WvW by promoting stacking servers and forming largest group you can. Edited May 6 by Riba.3271 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erysium.4501 Posted May 9 Author Share Posted May 9 On 5/6/2024 at 9:58 PM, Riba.3271 said: While this might seem great idea on paper for those uneducated, it does fail a bit. Since you are describing the protectors as strong, would they be able to turn tide for 15 to beat 25? What would happen to 25 people vs 25 then? Defenders already have clear advantage in equal numbered fights, wouldn't giving them even further buffs remove willing people to attack completely? If there are no willing attackers then there will be no opportunity defend, and game will be more dead. Defenders should definitely have strategic and siege placement advantage, but introducing unavoidable gimmicks will just ruin WvW by promoting stacking servers and forming largest group you can. what do you think if they were no longer npc's, but the lord of the fortress was replaced by such a "bot"? Wouldn't that make the fight more dynamic because it would be more likely to move? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erysium.4501 Posted May 9 Author Share Posted May 9 On 5/6/2024 at 9:01 PM, TheGrimm.5624 said: I understand the intent but I think this would just favor numbers. I think the goal has always been that the NPCs are not to be the ones to do the fight but it was the players to actually defend. I don't think we need better NPCs personally since again, its about players versus players in regards to attacking and defending. would it be an improvement for you if the lord of the fortress were to move more? Then the zerg would also have to adapt regularly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erysium.4501 Posted May 9 Author Share Posted May 9 On 5/6/2024 at 8:16 PM, bq pd.2148 said: anet is terrible at scaling things and it would end up just providing free rallies to larger groups trying to take the fortress while potentially adding a real threat to smaller groups / solos. especially on desert maps it is still quite possible to witness the lords kill smaller groups and solos all by themselves already. now if we could challenge the lord for the structure, so they would summon such bots based on the players about and create a barrier that no player of any team can cross till the fight is decided, that would be alright by me. if the lord were to fall ofc. still need to win the fight over the node. i like your idea with the zone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 2 hours ago, Erysium.4501 said: would it be an improvement for you if the lord of the fortress were to move more? Then the zerg would also have to adapt regularly. Couple of issues here. Space is one. There are more options for AI changes in SMC and EBG keeps as well as the DBL keeps but the keeps on ABL are already pretty small of an area and doesn't really create any area where that would change. Combine that with the smaller ring sizes and that limits it a bit more. Second is scale of play. As a roamer fighting a lord there is already plenty of movement. In Havoc size play that movement is further decreased but there is some already occurring as players move in and out of melee range. For large scale there is less movement. In large scale even if they change it there would still be little movement. In all three regards again the NPC shouldn't be the factor that determines the fight. Making the NPCs stronger just impacts smaller scale play and doesn't impact larger scale at all. Larger scale is just going to wear down the lord if there are no defenders regardless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonderm.4639 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 Yes please. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 Should turn the lords into one of the meta support or meme specs. Gunflame smc lord would be hilarious, or a double grav well chrono lord, or instead of some cheap break bar heal that no one notices how about making them an actual firebrand using the same skills and cooldowns of the meta support firebrand. 🤷♂️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said: Should turn the lords into one of the meta support or meme specs. Gunflame smc lord would be hilarious, or a double grav well chrono lord, or instead of some cheap break bar heal that no one notices how about making them an actual firebrand using the same skills and cooldowns of the meta support firebrand. 🤷♂️ Why not a thief instead? With zerker starts for a lord of course (which would be what, maybe 10,000 power?). Seeing a lord one hit kill everyone while constantly vanishing and perma dodging would be somewhat amusing. And thieves would still look at it and say the lord need that stealth to survive the zerg. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotejjeken.1267 Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 On 5/6/2024 at 2:16 PM, bq pd.2148 said: anet is terrible at scaling things and it would end up just providing free rallies to larger groups trying to take the fortress while potentially adding a real threat to smaller groups / solos. especially on desert maps it is still quite possible to witness the lords kill smaller groups and solos all by themselves already. now if we could challenge the lord for the structure, so they would summon such bots based on the players about and create a barrier that no player of any team can cross till the fight is decided, that would be alright by me. if the lord were to fall ofc. still need to win the fight over the node. Lord should turn into a raid boss--well maybe not quite raid boss but be very hard to kill and then go with the idea of only the team in the ring can fight it. Forget scaling it, just make keeps so only 20+ can take them--towers can be 5-10 man groups and then camps just still solos. Maybe have multiple capture zones outside lord room that activate and holding those debuffs the lord or something; players can fight over that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedievalThings.5417 Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 8 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said: Why not a thief instead? With zerker starts for a lord of course (which would be what, maybe 10,000 power?). Seeing a lord one hit kill everyone while constantly vanishing and perma dodging would be somewhat amusing. And thieves would still look at it and say the lord need that stealth to survive the zerg. Now this would make for one hell of a wvw event. Imagine trying to kill a tower lord who just kept stealthing and one-shotting people anywhere in the tower. Good times. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bq pd.2148 Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 8 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said: Why not a thief instead? With zerker starts for a lord of course (which would be what, maybe 10,000 power?). Seeing a lord one hit kill everyone while constantly vanishing and perma dodging would be somewhat amusing. And thieves would still look at it and say the lord need that stealth to survive the zerg. below 60% hp the lord should also try to reset the fight, leaving the structure temporarily even if needed to bait some attackers out of it before moving back in. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erysium.4501 Posted May 10 Author Share Posted May 10 20 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said: Should turn the lords into one of the meta support or meme specs. Gunflame smc lord would be hilarious, or a double grav well chrono lord, or instead of some cheap break bar heal that no one notices how about making them an actual firebrand using the same skills and cooldowns of the meta support firebrand. 🤷♂️ to be honest, i find your idea exciting. in order to try something like this out carefully as a developer, you could do a very short wvw beta. after the beta, arenanet could throw in a questionnaire afterwards asking how we found it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cael.3960 Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 (edited) Replacing keep lords or SMC legendary with a random, scaled, world boss for a week could be a lot of fun. Obviously super-huge bosses like Tequatl/Triple Worm wouldn't work within the limited space of a lord room, but humanoid world bosses/event bosses/bounties or a scaled down version of Fire Elemental, Golem Mk2 etc would make for an interesting experience. Balance would be impossible, but that's kind of the point. Would make for some interesting defender events with that kind of chaos going on, and it would certainly encourage more keep fights just to experience the content. Edited May 10 by Cael.3960 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansar.1302 Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 On 5/6/2024 at 6:52 PM, Erysium.4501 said: Hello folks! I have a WvW post that to my knowledge has never been introduced. I hope it is understandable as it was translated from German. There are training bots of every class in the PvP lobby (Heart of the Mists). The fighting style of the bots is exciting, but a little weak. I could well imagine such bots as protectors of the lord of the fortress in wvw. The protectors could appear when the lord of the fortress is attacked or maybe only has 50% life left. if you give them the strength of an elite rank and they do a lot of damage, it could make the wvw boss fights more exciting. the feeling of defeating a lord of the fortress is then a greater challenge in the fortresses. I assume that it would be easy for Arenanet to implement. What do you think? WvW needs less pve not more, wvw is pvp mode. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erysium.4501 Posted May 10 Author Share Posted May 10 10 minutes ago, Sansar.1302 said: WvW needs less pve not more, wvw is pvp mode. no. wvw is a unique mode. both elements have equal rights. in my opinion, i also tend more towards pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erysium.4501 Posted May 10 Author Share Posted May 10 1 hour ago, Cael.3960 said: Replacing keep lords or SMC legendary with a random, scaled, world boss for a week could be a lot of fun. Obviously super-huge bosses like Tequatl/Triple Worm wouldn't work within the limited space of a lord room, but humanoid world bosses/event bosses/bounties or a scaled down version of Fire Elemental, Golem Mk2 etc would make for an interesting experience. Balance would be impossible, but that's kind of the point. Would make for some interesting defender events with that kind of chaos going on, and it would certainly encourage more keep fights just to experience the content. i would find this very entertaining for a few/few weeks. i could imagine that it would also attract more pve players to the wvw map. in the end, such an event would probably be a good advertisement and would attract attention. i see good points in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy.3728 Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 (edited) On 5/6/2024 at 6:52 PM, Erysium.4501 said: What do you think? That it sounds like adding more pve. I spent 20 minutes in SM on and around the Lord today. All 3 servers were fighting for that one room. There was no telling whether or not we would be able to keep the other two zergs at bay while clearing the circle and capping... This is my favorite WvW. And no side used the current boonball meta. Such an entertainment. More PvE troops don't improve this fun, they just make it annoying. Edited May 10 by Lucy.3728 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erysium.4501 Posted May 10 Author Share Posted May 10 1 minute ago, Lucy.3728 said: That it sounds like adding more pve. I spent 20 minutes in SM on and around the Lord today. All 3 servers were fighting for that one room. There was no telling whether or not we would be able to keep the other two zergs at bay while clearing the circle and capping... This is my favorite WvW. More PvE troops don't improve this fun, they just make it annoying. then you would like to leave everything as it is? If "no", do you have any suggestions for improvements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 3 hours ago, Erysium.4501 said: to be honest, i find your idea exciting. in order to try something like this out carefully as a developer, you could do a very short wvw beta. after the beta, arenanet could throw in a questionnaire afterwards asking how we found it. You do realize that they already nerfed DBL keep lords due to large scale having issues with them while others were not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 On 5/6/2024 at 12:52 PM, Erysium.4501 said: Hello folks! I have a WvW post that to my knowledge has never been introduced. I hope it is understandable as it was translated from German. There are training bots of every class in the PvP lobby (Heart of the Mists). The fighting style of the bots is exciting, but a little weak. I could well imagine such bots as protectors of the lord of the fortress in wvw. The protectors could appear when the lord of the fortress is attacked or maybe only has 50% life left. if you give them the strength of an elite rank and they do a lot of damage, it could make the wvw boss fights more exciting. the feeling of defeating a lord of the fortress is then a greater challenge in the fortresses. I assume that it would be easy for Arenanet to implement. What do you think? Let me go back to your first idea. There are a lot of forums threads on changes and we also tend to end up with changes that posters aren't sure where they came from. I appreciate the ideas of changes to the sandbox as well to keep things fresh. But what is your intended environment here. Is this to change the way that zerg on zerg fight around a lord? Havoc size, or Roamer or just when a side breaches a keep and they only have NPCs to fight? Don't get me wrong I have seen where WvW style game modes have used NPC events to induce more pvp interactions and could see that here. I just question it based around a keep lord versus somewhere else like an open area in the map. Personally I could still them adding Steve (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Labyrinthine_Horror) running around the inner and outer walls in SMC during the Halloween event as a reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 16 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said: Lord should turn into a raid boss--well maybe not quite raid boss but be very hard to kill and then go with the idea of only the team in the ring can fight it. Forget scaling it, just make keeps so only 20+ can take them--towers can be 5-10 man groups and then camps just still solos. Maybe have multiple capture zones outside lord room that activate and holding those debuffs the lord or something; players can fight over that. No scaling purposes is to deal with exactly that. If you try and fix in place all that will mater in the end is size of the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepoolpe.9217 Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 On 5/6/2024 at 6:52 PM, Erysium.4501 said: There are training bots of every class in the PvP lobby (Heart of the Mists). The fighting style of the bots is exciting, but a little weak. I could well imagine such bots as protectors of the lord of the fortress in wvw. The protectors could appear when the lord of the fortress is attacked or maybe only has 50% life left. if you give them the strength of an elite rank and they do a lot of damage, it could make the wvw boss fights more exciting. the feeling of defeating a lord of the fortress is then a greater challenge in the fortresses. It already exist: it's a called a map meta event and it's available in most PvE maps. Anet tried to add a PvE side to WvW when they introduced DBL and it was a complete and utter failure and they removed it. On 5/6/2024 at 6:52 PM, Erysium.4501 said: I assume that it would be easy for Arenanet to implement. It's Anet, why in would you assume something like that? 😕 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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