Possible Terrible Change Coming to Power Reverent 12/12

[Rym.1469]

The name of this thread is a hyperbole and the announced change won't destroy revenant or anything (I bet you wouldn't even notice the change if you didn't read about it) - remember that sword aa already applies vulnerability.Yet, it's another chance on discussion about trait activators.

I generally don't mind giving players more control in their hands, especially when this control is spread out across multiple different trait activating conditions. However, small things like a chance of extra vulnerability stack on attacks is rather minor and I see no problem with it as it is. It's very easily accessible condition that doesn't do that much unless it's at high stacks - I'm all for shifting it from trash condition status to "high stacks on cooldown" where it becomes significant and planned - but that, primo, already exists in power rev in competitive modes (burst setups with FoS active and/or 5 vuln on weapon swap sigil), secundo - would require vuln to be less accessible to everyone (so big game-wide changes).

If developers were interested in adding more gameplay and decision-making to traits like this one, they could do that in several other ways without a need for activator, i.e:

• Mutilate Defenses proc chance is doubled on disabled (CC'd) enemies

• Mutilate Defenses has a chance to proc on regular hit when striking an enemy with Protection/Resistance boon

• Every point of Energy spent increases MDefenses proc chance by 2%

• Idea of major traits temporary enhancing simple minor traits that don't do much to be significant for couple seconds - Spending 50 Energy causes your next X critical attacks to have guaranteed MDefenses procs.

Small conditional enhancements like that can avoid putting more pressure on activators, saving them for more significant effects and greater traits, while still providing a small (or big on a master/grandmaster trait, if intended) layer of gameplay and extra optimization.

[Abelisk.4527]

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Preparation_Thrust

[ArthurDent.9538]

@"Abelisk.4527" said:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Preparation_Thrust

That is great. It doesn't help when you are fighting an opponent that is kiting and you can only reach with longer ranged skills like precision strike, and unrelenting assault. It also doesn't help when we swap weapons since the class has no vulnerability on any weapons other than the swords. Ultimately, no matter how you look at it, this change results in less up-time on a 7% damage modifier and fewer life siphon procs which hurts both damage and survivability overall. Power rev is already garbage tier in pvp, and has been garbage tier in pve for a long time. The only place a nerf to power rev could possibly be justified is wvw because hammer rev does well in pirate-ship metas (which is only really popular now because scourge/spellbreaker makes melee pushes suicidal). It would be fine if we could get something nice to make up for this so we aren't garbage tier anymore, but they won't, and we will be even more trash till the next balance patch.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@Miles Smiles.8951 said:

@"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:Stupid change, Anet if you don't know what you're doing with revenant just stop touching it. They heard "too many conditions", so they went to a POWER traitline for a POWER non meta class with no condition clear and nerfed kitten vulnerability application (and life steal and dmg as a result of 2 other devastation minors Targeted Destruction and Focused Siphoning), like oh ok that's totally what we all meant by condition spam: too much vulnerability! Not weakness, torment, confusion, burns no no friends it was all power revenant vulnerability that had to be nerfed! So essentially power revenant is only allowed to get utility out of Targeted Destruction and Focused Siphoning for the first 5 seconds of a fight.

They were even so proud of it as to use it as an example of their condition "fix". Even when conditions get nerfed power revenant gets kitten in the kitten.

What a joke.

The worst thing is they were actually trying to buff it.

Lol not surprised.

Idk why everyone is obsessing over how this is a small nerf. Yes it is small I will admit in the grand scheme of things, but what upsets me more is why nerf this class at all at this point and what that entails for future patches.

And they weren't even TRYING to nerf it.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@Miles Smiles.8951 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:If this change goes through, they have demonstrated perfectly that they have no idea how this class works and have never read the tooltips. As if removing Equilibrium wasn't horrible decision making, it just continues on and on. Straight up foolish, I hope your company hurts in 2018. The lack of attention in this game is so sad.

Removing Equilibrium was the RIGHT choice. Did it hurt power builds? yes. Was it needed? yes In WvW the trait was flat out broken being able to hit 8k+ just for swapping legend with no tell or cast time or anything. It needed to be changed. Maybe they could have kept it but nerfed the WvW and adding like a 1second delay or something so that people see they have legend swapped and know they big damage is coming sothey have a chance to avoid it would have been a good idea as well (the replace trait does suck...)

Then they need to remove/rework all the skills with no tells or cast times. Why did they start with the revenant? And why did they stop after it?

Completely agree.

[Abelisk.4527]

@ArthurDent.9538 said:

@"Abelisk.4527" said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Preparation_Thrust

That is great. It doesn't help when you are fighting an opponent that is kiting and you can only reach with longer ranged skills like precision strike, and unrelenting assault. It also doesn't help when we swap weapons since the class has no vulnerability on any weapons other than the swords. Ultimately, no matter how you look at it, this change results in less up-time on a 7% damage modifier and fewer life siphon procs which hurts both damage and survivability overall. Power rev is already garbage tier in pvp, and has been garbage tier in pve for a long time. The only place a nerf to power rev could possibly be justified is wvw because hammer rev does well in pirate-ship metas (which is only really popular now because scourge/spellbreaker makes melee pushes suicidal). It would be fine if we could get something nice to make up for this so we aren't garbage tier anymore, but they won't, and we will be even more trash till the next balance patch.

Sigil of Fallibility

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@Abelisk.4527 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:

@Abelisk.4527 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Preparation_Thrust

That is great. It doesn't help when you are fighting an opponent that is kiting and you can only reach with longer ranged skills like precision strike, and unrelenting assault. It also doesn't help when we swap weapons since the class has no vulnerability on any weapons other than the swords. Ultimately, no matter how you look at it, this change results in less up-time on a 7% damage modifier and fewer life siphon procs which hurts both damage and survivability overall. Power rev is already garbage tier in pvp, and has been garbage tier in pve for a long time. The only place a nerf to power rev could possibly be justified is wvw because hammer rev does well in pirate-ship metas (which is only really popular now because scourge/spellbreaker makes melee pushes suicidal). It would be fine if we could get something nice to make up for this so we aren't garbage tier anymore, but they won't, and we will be even more trash till the next balance patch.

Sigil of Fallibility

Only in PvP.

[thebatman.6250]

is anyone else excited for the new trait change, besides me? :)

[ArthurDent.9538]

@Abelisk.4527 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:

@Abelisk.4527 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Preparation_Thrust

That is great. It doesn't help when you are fighting an opponent that is kiting and you can only reach with longer ranged skills like precision strike, and unrelenting assault. It also doesn't help when we swap weapons since the class has no vulnerability on any weapons other than the swords. Ultimately, no matter how you look at it, this change results in less up-time on a 7% damage modifier and fewer life siphon procs which hurts both damage and survivability overall. Power rev is already garbage tier in pvp, and has been garbage tier in pve for a long time. The only place a nerf to power rev could possibly be justified is wvw because hammer rev does well in pirate-ship metas (which is only really popular now because scourge/spellbreaker makes melee pushes suicidal). It would be fine if we could get something nice to make up for this so we aren't garbage tier anymore, but they won't, and we will be even more trash till the next balance patch.

Sigil of Fallibility

It will now be mandatory, however Icd makes it worse in multi target situations and it requires sigil slots that used to be usable for other things. Regardless of what we can do to compensate for this change, why is anet trying to nerf a dead spec further?

[Abelisk.4527]

@ArthurDent.9538 said:

@Abelisk.4527 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:

@Abelisk.4527 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Preparation_Thrust

That is great. It doesn't help when you are fighting an opponent that is kiting and you can only reach with longer ranged skills like precision strike, and unrelenting assault. It also doesn't help when we swap weapons since the class has no vulnerability on any weapons other than the swords. Ultimately, no matter how you look at it, this change results in less up-time on a 7% damage modifier and fewer life siphon procs which hurts both damage and survivability overall. Power rev is already garbage tier in pvp, and has been garbage tier in pve for a long time. The only place a nerf to power rev could possibly be justified is wvw because hammer rev does well in pirate-ship metas (which is only really popular now because scourge/spellbreaker makes melee pushes suicidal). It would be fine if we could get something nice to make up for this so we aren't garbage tier anymore, but they won't, and we will be even more trash till the next balance patch.

Sigil of Fallibility

It will now be mandatory, however Icd makes it worse in multi target situations and it requires sigil slots that used to be usable for other things. Regardless of what we can do to compensate for this change, why is anet trying to nerf a dead spec further?

Well they didn't release info on every change. Best thing we could do is wait for now

[Abelisk.4527]

@thebatman.6250 said:is anyone else excited for the new trait change, besides me? :)

Mallyx spam Kalla spam here we come

[Burtnik.5218]

Classic Anet strikes again. I called this class Nerfnant 2 years ago.. and im not disappointed at all. They cant release a patch wthout nerfing rev in one way or another. Rip deva minor synergy if you dont use sword at x time . Slow clap for the genius that came up with this change.

Also saw funny quote

"Is that new trait called "Expose Defenses" because you waste all your energy to use it and are left with nothing to defend yourself?"

Lel.

[Miles Smiles.8951]

@thebatman.6250 said:is anyone else excited for the new trait change, besides me? :)

no, my boy, we're pretty much devastated (pun intended)

[Lalainnia.3598]

The only thing this will honestly hurt is running around in open world with max crit and jalis vengeful hammers. Outside of this hardly anyone uses jalis in spvp the ppl that do in wvw won't even be getting enough hits off for it to matter. It gives the devastation line/legend more opening burst potential which is really what the legends main purpose is. On top of all this it's a the minor adept trait of a core trait line.....

Really ppl are just upset they used revs as an example and most rev players are putting frustration with renegades uselessness in spvp/wvw settings into this. Ppl will hardly see a difference if anything slighty stronger openers in spvp/wvw and after elite skill use.

[phoenixwil.6071]

Yup based on their tease, it is a nerf. To be fair, they certainly wouldn't do that without a way to offset it. Shiro doesn't have defenses and relies on vulernability for siphoning and higher damage potential. Spending 50 from my elite will leave me useless just to have a refresh for 5 vulnerability. Doesn't make sense unless they are implementing something for survival...stealth. If their intent is to spike on the first attack, I can see anet adding stealth to Impossible Odds. It would make sense. Fits with Shiro since he is an assassin. Anet removed our block from sword 4. Can't maintain Impossible Odds long and attacking your target will knock you out of stealth. Constant low energy then casting skills on top it. With no defense and the vulnerability nerf, Shiro needs something so yeah I can certainly see stealth added to Impossible Odds.

On a related note, Enchanted Daggers needs to be an instant cast. It can assist with the burst in mid attack. It has a lot of drawbacks for a heal since it can be blocked, evaded, reflected (which heals your target lol wtf), blinded, stealth (requires a target), armor, time limit, obstructed, used if it hits target or not, low base heal, etc. Other professions don't have these useless restrictions on their heal. While you are at it, add stealth to it too. If you not gonna let Shiro heal with it, he may as well hide with it.

One more thing, changes to Minor Adept is badly needed. Example, Jade Echo is only useful if I'm dead. Um, I don't plan on dying so why in the world would I consider that a choice?? Jade Echo is bad since it requires you to die which I am trying to prevent and my death needs to be nearby foes and has a 90 sec cooldown. If I'm downed, it makes no difference anyway if I stun them or not. I can't heal enough to recover before the stun is over; and that is if they are stunned since blind, stability, block, etc prevents it. The trait is subpar. Ya gotta add more to it for when I'm alive; maybe add a 1 sec stun on sword attacks (cooldown 10 sec) if target has vulnerability.

Same for Ferocious Strikes, only useful for dual-handed weapons. What about if my swap weapon is a Hammer, Shortbow, or Staff? That means the trait is only useful sometimes. Maybe Ferocious Strikes can also apply vulnerability. For Vicious Lacerations, add blind foe (cooldown 10 sec) when wielding two swords.

Just some ideas to help anet.

[Buran.3796]

@"Lalainnia.3598" said:

Really ppl are just upset they used revs as an example and most rev players are putting frustration with renegades uselessness in spvp/wvw settings into this. Ppl will hardly see a difference if anything slighty stronger openers in spvp/wvw and after elite skill use.

I'm upset because is a nerf to the power build in a patch intended to diminish the "burstiness of condition damage". I don't see how making the power build a bit less competitive helps to their cause.

As I stated, they should have REPLACED the vuln proc for a limited resistance with a cooldown or a cleansing, or something useful. They known that the meta is two condi Scourges + a Firebrand support, and the Herald is barely played in ranked, so why they don't give us tools to fight against that meta instead of shaving another 1% or 2% or our damage playing a power spec? Makes 0 sense.

[Manpag.6421]

On the face of it this'll be a nerf to tank builds, but then, this is just one trait; it's only a nerf to Focused Siphoning if that trait isn't also tweaked better to synergise with the updated 'Expose Defenses'. I main revenant, but I'm willing to see what other changes are put in place since any change to vulnerability obviously affects Shiro pretty hard. I'm hoping ANet would at least take into account the rest of the trait line.

[thebatman.6250]

I think you lads need to tone it down a bit. This thread is becoming a clown fiesta of hyperbolic complaints.

[Halikus.1406]

@"thebatman.6250" said:I think you lads need to tone it down a bit. This thread is becoming a clown fiesta of hyperbolic complaints.

Said the guy who accepts everything anet does with a smile on the face. I respect you as a player Bryan but now you deserve an answer...We complaint because we're tired of receiving nerfs in every single patch. I don't know about the others but I'm sick of having to adjust my build and gameplay every time anet screws us over with some unnecessary and undeserved nerf when there are thousand other things that begs for their attention desperately. They could pretty much open a channel to chat with players and discuss things over instead of "balance" things based purely on numbers, which is clearly not working, or they could, and should tbh, focus on fixing the hundreds of problems and bugs the class still carries since launch.When they do something right I will praise them for sure, like the OH sword rework which was needed but carried out in a bad way, but when they don't then I will call for improvements of course. I love my class and I want it to be competitive with others but the way the class is now the only people playing are the truly skilled players, because the class is not attractive at all for new players in spvp/wvw. We need twice the effort compared to other classes to perform well and avoid dropping dead at any second by bursts with little to no tell. If they fix the terrible balance we have now while nerfing and or fixing everything not only revs then I will gladly accept it, but if they don't I just ask for them to turn their focus somewhere else and stop gutting revs in every single patch.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@thebatman.6250 said:I think you lads need to tone it down a bit. This thread is becoming a clown fiesta of hyperbolic complaints.

Today I learned we're supposed to celebrate every nerf our mains get in GW2

[thebatman.6250]

@"Halikus.1406" said:

Said the guy who accepts everything anet does with a smile on the face. I respect you as a player Bryan but now you deserve an answer...We complaint because we're tired of receiving nerfs in every single patch. I don't know about the others but I'm sick of having to adjust my build and gameplay every time anet screws us over with some unnecessary and undeserved nerf when there are thousand other things that begs for their attention desperately. They could pretty much open a channel to chat with players and discuss things over instead of "balance" things based purely on numbers, which is clearly not working, or they could, and should tbh, focus on fixing the hundreds of problems and bugs the class still carries since launch.When they do something right I will praise them for sure, like the OH sword rework which was needed but carried out in a bad way, but when they don't then I will call for improvements of course. I love my class and I want it to be competitive with others but the way the class is now the only people playing are the truly skilled players, because the class is not attractive at all for new players in spvp/wvw. We need twice the effort compared to other classes to perform well and avoid dropping dead at any second by bursts with little to no tell. If they fix the terrible balance we have now while nerfing and or fixing everything not only revs then I will gladly accept it, but if they don't I just ask for them to turn their focus somewhere else and stop gutting revs in every single patch.

Slow your roll on that first bit m80. I have my fair share of issues with whats happening to this class just as much as the rest of you. So between you, me, and anyone who reads my shitposts. I'm doing what I can with what I have and making it work to best of my ability.

The grim reality we have to accept is that revenant will not be optimal to run in sPvP until 1 of 2 criteria are met:

1. Nerf Scourges condition output into the ground
2. Add more sustain to the Herald Specialization

Once either of those are met we will be able to be optimal in the CURRENT meta game. However we need to look at the long term and what we will be dealing with after this season. The responses on this thread are well within the hyperbolic. This is the first and only season, so far, where Revenant wasn't an optimal class to pick for sPvP. Yeah the class is in a rough spot. But so has every other class in this game.

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

Today I learned we're supposed to celebrate every nerf our mains get in GW2

C L O W N F I E S T A

[ArthurDent.9538]

@thebatman.6250 said:

Once either of those are met we will be able to be optimal in the CURRENT meta game. However we need to look at the long term and what we will be dealing with after this season. The responses on this thread are well within the hyperbolic. This is the first and only season, so far, where Revenant wasn't an optimal class to pick for sPvP. Yeah the class is in a rough spot. But so has every other class in this game.

I have to correct you on this as the precision strike and sotm nerfs for season 5 put revenant out of the meta and at the bottom of the totem pole. Nerfs to other classes in subsequent seasons brought it back up to being a strong but completely optional pick for the 4th or 5th spot on a team by season 8. Then obviously path of fire said kitten you, and erased erased rev completely from the meta.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@thebatman.6250 said:

@"Halikus.1406" said:

Said the guy who accepts everything anet does with a smile on the face. I respect you as a player Bryan but now you deserve an answer...We complaint because we're tired of receiving nerfs in every single patch. I don't know about the others but I'm sick of having to adjust my build and gameplay every time anet screws us over with some unnecessary and undeserved nerf when there are thousand other things that begs for their attention desperately. They could pretty much open a channel to chat with players and discuss things over instead of "balance" things based purely on numbers, which is clearly not working, or they could, and should tbh, focus on fixing the hundreds of problems and bugs the class still carries since launch.When they do something right I will praise them for sure, like the OH sword rework which was needed but carried out in a bad way, but when they don't then I will call for improvements of course. I love my class and I want it to be competitive with others but the way the class is now the only people playing are the truly skilled players, because the class is not attractive at all for new players in spvp/wvw. We need twice the effort compared to other classes to perform well and avoid dropping dead at any second by bursts with little to no tell. If they fix the terrible balance we have now while nerfing and or fixing everything not only revs then I will gladly accept it, but if they don't I just ask for them to turn their focus somewhere else and stop gutting revs in every single patch.

Slow your roll on that first bit m80. I have my fair share of issues with whats happening to this class just as much as the rest of you. So between you, me, and anyone who reads my shitposts. I'm doing what I can with what I have and making it work to best of my ability.

The grim reality we have to accept is that revenant will not be optimal to run in sPvP until 1 of 2 criteria are met:

1. Nerf Scourges condition output into the ground
2. Add more sustain to the Herald Specialization

Once either of those are met we will be able to be optimal in the

CURRENT

meta game. However we need to look at the long term and what we will be dealing with after this season. The responses on this thread are well within the hyperbolic. This is the first and only season, so far, where Revenant wasn't an optimal class to pick for sPvP. Yeah the class is in a rough spot. But so has every other class in this game.

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

Today I learned we're supposed to celebrate every nerf our mains get in GW2

C L O W N F I E S T A

Revenant has been in a less than optimal B tier spot for several seasons now.

[Obtena.7952]

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@thebatman.6250 said:

@"Halikus.1406" said:

Said the guy who accepts everything anet does with a smile on the face. I respect you as a player Bryan but now you deserve an answer...We complaint because we're tired of receiving nerfs in every single patch. I don't know about the others but I'm sick of having to adjust my build and gameplay every time anet screws us over with some unnecessary and undeserved nerf when there are thousand other things that begs for their attention desperately. They could pretty much open a channel to chat with players and discuss things over instead of "balance" things based purely on numbers, which is clearly not working, or they could, and should tbh, focus on fixing the hundreds of problems and bugs the class still carries since launch.When they do something right I will praise them for sure, like the OH sword rework which was needed but carried out in a bad way, but when they don't then I will call for improvements of course. I love my class and I want it to be competitive with others but the way the class is now the only people playing are the truly skilled players, because the class is not attractive at all for new players in spvp/wvw. We need twice the effort compared to other classes to perform well and avoid dropping dead at any second by bursts with little to no tell. If they fix the terrible balance we have now while nerfing and or fixing everything not only revs then I will gladly accept it, but if they don't I just ask for them to turn their focus somewhere else and stop gutting revs in every single patch.

Slow your roll on that first bit m80. I have my fair share of issues with whats happening to this class just as much as the rest of you. So between you, me, and anyone who reads my shitposts. I'm doing what I can with what I have and making it work to best of my ability.

The grim reality we have to accept is that revenant will not be optimal to run in sPvP until 1 of 2 criteria are met:

1. Nerf Scourges condition output into the ground
2. Add more sustain to the Herald Specialization

Once either of those are met we will be able to be optimal in the

CURRENT

meta game. However we need to look at the long term and what we will be dealing with after this season. The responses on this thread are well within the hyperbolic. This is the first and only season, so far, where Revenant wasn't an optimal class to pick for sPvP. Yeah the class is in a rough spot. But so has every other class in this game.

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

Today I learned we're supposed to celebrate every nerf our mains get in GW2

C L O W N F I E S T A

Revenant has been in a less than optimal B tier spot for several seasons now.

... and that's never been a compelling reason for Anet to do anything anyways ... so while you all think that's a terrible thing and a valid point, it really isn't. Anet has no reason to chase meta on one class, just to end up having to repeat the fool's errand to do so on another.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@thebatman.6250 said:

@"Halikus.1406" said:

Said the guy who accepts everything anet does with a smile on the face. I respect you as a player Bryan but now you deserve an answer...We complaint because we're tired of receiving nerfs in every single patch. I don't know about the others but I'm sick of having to adjust my build and gameplay every time anet screws us over with some unnecessary and undeserved nerf when there are thousand other things that begs for their attention desperately. They could pretty much open a channel to chat with players and discuss things over instead of "balance" things based purely on numbers, which is clearly not working, or they could, and should tbh, focus on fixing the hundreds of problems and bugs the class still carries since launch.When they do something right I will praise them for sure, like the OH sword rework which was needed but carried out in a bad way, but when they don't then I will call for improvements of course. I love my class and I want it to be competitive with others but the way the class is now the only people playing are the truly skilled players, because the class is not attractive at all for new players in spvp/wvw. We need twice the effort compared to other classes to perform well and avoid dropping dead at any second by bursts with little to no tell. If they fix the terrible balance we have now while nerfing and or fixing everything not only revs then I will gladly accept it, but if they don't I just ask for them to turn their focus somewhere else and stop gutting revs in every single patch.

Slow your roll on that first bit m80. I have my fair share of issues with whats happening to this class just as much as the rest of you. So between you, me, and anyone who reads my shitposts. I'm doing what I can with what I have and making it work to best of my ability.

The grim reality we have to accept is that revenant will not be optimal to run in sPvP until 1 of 2 criteria are met:

1. Nerf Scourges condition output into the ground
2. Add more sustain to the Herald Specialization

Once either of those are met we will be able to be optimal in the

CURRENT

meta game. However we need to look at the long term and what we will be dealing with after this season. The responses on this thread are well within the hyperbolic. This is the first and only season, so far, where Revenant wasn't an optimal class to pick for sPvP. Yeah the class is in a rough spot. But so has every other class in this game.

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

Today I learned we're supposed to celebrate every nerf our mains get in GW2

C L O W N F I E S T A

Revenant has been in a less than optimal B tier spot for several seasons now.

... and that's never been a compelling reason for Anet to do anything anyways ... so while you all think that's a terrible thing and a valid point, it really isn't. Anet has no reason to chase meta on one class, just to end up having to repeat the fool's errand to do so on another.

Um I never said any of that shit you said? I just pointed out another comment's error.

And by that logic why are they balancing at all? Isn't balancing just chasing metas on whatever classes are underperforming lol, if they didn't want to chase meta on any class why are they nerfing or buffing anything at all? Changes just because?

Edgy comment tho