Upcoming Balance Changes

[BenaSPACE.6028]

Continuing from my post here:

Patch notes:

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• Hurl: Increased the power coefficient per hit from 0.33 to 0.44 in PvE only.

Rock Barrier in particular has the issue of causing toughness imbalances in certain raid content, and I feel like it should be reworked to do something akin to providing pulsing barrier, or just doing a flat damage reduction.

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• Drake's Breath: Reduced the casting time from 2.2 seconds to 1.6 seconds. Increased the power coefficient per strike from 0.4 to 0.44 in PvP and WvW.
• Cone of Cold: Reduced the casting time from 2.2 seconds to 1.6 seconds. Increased the base healing from 944 to 1,416 in PvP and WvW. Increased the healing coefficient from 0.6 to 0.8 in PvP and WvW.

I think this is a good idea in general, though I'd be careful about how quickly these skills do their damage now. Keep in mind that the ideal trade off for the damage they do over time is the amount of time they take to do them-- In other words doing 2,000 damage over 2 seconds and doing 1,000 over 1 second are not equivalent. The latter is oftentimes (if not always) better, especially in competitive modes.

In a similar vein, consider adding a similar change to Meteor Shower (Staff Fire 5). The nigh-four second time it takes to cast this renders it far too difficult to use effectively, especially on classes like tempest where overloads effectively give a deadline for skill usage in an element.

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• Frozen Burst: This skill now creates an ice field before performing its blast finisher.
• Convergence: This skill is now a blast finisher. Increased the power coefficient from 1.0 to 1.2 in PvP and WvW.

I'm always ecstatic to see dagger buffs for ele. I just personally have a preference for how dagger plays over sword in general, though I feel like these only help it perform better as a healing weapon (with Karakosa).

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• Static Field: This skill now performs an initial strike that deals defiance-bar damage when deployed in PvE.
• Unsteady Ground: This skill now performs an initial strike that deals defiance-bar damage when deployed in PvE.

Awesome QoL additions, IMO.

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• Earth's Embrace: This trait has been reworked. Gain resistance after using a healing skill.

Not a terribly impressive change in my opinion. I feel like it would be better to offer this as a party-wide boon, at least in pve. The main issue with this is competes with fire for anti-condition (a theming that I love, by the way!), and with this change:

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• Diamond Skin: This trait has been reworked. Remove a condition from yourself when you successfully combo a field with a leap finisher. Remove a condition from yourself and nearby allies when you successfully combo a field with a blast finisher.

It feels rather redundant. Speaking of, this new form of Diamond Skin is pretty cool, I think. Good work with this one. Might need a more thematic name.

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• Soothing Ice: This trait now triggers after using a healing skill instead of when critically hit. Reduced the internal cooldown to 15 seconds in all game modes.

Good change overall, I think. I'd up the duration of the regen provided to 5 seconds or so, as the additional cost of a healing skill is quite a bit higher.

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• Flow like Water: Increased the bonus strike damage while above the health threshold from 5% to 10% in PvP and WvW. This trait now also grants 5% bonus strike damage while under the health threshold. Reduced the health threshold from 75% to 50%. Reduced the internal cooldown from 10 seconds to 4 seconds.

A cool change, but overall I don't think it will change its usage in any game mode realistically. Water needs just a bit more before people will consider using it for strike damage.

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• Soothing Power: This trait now also grants 300 vitality to the elementalist.

I like this idea, though I would just put it in for Soothing Mist instead. I don't think ad additional 300 vitality will encourage people to pick it any more or less than they do, especially in PvP/WvW, where I feel like aura-sharing is overall better.

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Tempest

• Overload Air: This skill now also grants fury to allies. Increased the power coefficient from 0.715 to 0.951 in PvE only.
• Heat Sync: This skill now also grants fury to the user before copying boons.
• "Feel the Burn!": Increased might from 5 stacks for 10 seconds to 8 stacks for 15 seconds in PvE only. This skill now also grants fury to allies in PvE only.
• Gathered Focus: The additional concentration from this trait no longer has a health-threshold requirement.
• Hardy Conduit: This trait now also grants protection to nearby allies.

I'll go over all this at once since it can be summarized as, "More fury and protection from tempest". A fantastic addition, in general. Frankly, I forgot Gathered Focus had a health requirement, but good riddance, I think to that anyway. The only thing I'll note is that I feel alacrity production from overloads still has some QoL due, especially in terms of radius and a little in terms of the alac you get from the end of an overload.

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• Plasma Beam: Reduced the cooldown from 18 seconds to 15 seconds in PvE only.
• Earthen Synergy: Reduced the cooldown from 20 seconds to 15 seconds in PvE only. Increased the power coefficients from 0.77/0.33 to 1.4/1.0 in PvE. Reduced the power coefficients from 0.77/0.33 to 0.01/0.01 in WvW and PvP.

While I'm not quite a weaver aficionado, I feel like cooldowns at a certain point are more of a non-factor as my experience has been that you cycle between three elements, not staying long enough to use anything over 4-8 seconds cooldown twice, or have an issue with cooldowns unless they were something akin to 25+ seconds long, especially in terms of dual attacks, which cycle out the fastest.

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• Invigorating Air: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 20 seconds in PvE only.
• Fortified Earth: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 20 seconds in PvE only.

I spent an embarrassing amount of time looking for these under Weaver.

Nonspecific notes:

I feel that Ele in general could benefit from more condi and power options with core specialization via Arcane and Water respectively would be good for class diversity and for the game overall (Not just ele in this, but all classes).

Hammer still feels like it's relatively weak, so consider giving it a bit more in terms of damage, especially strike, in PvE. Additionally, I feel like the dual-orbitals on hammer could be something flashier, possibly offering special grand finales specific to the two elements the weaver is attuned to. I feel like I'm asking a lot, but it otherwise feels pretty indifferent from any other specialization in that regard, and I found that a little disappointing, personally.

Also, don't forget that while offering sceptre as a good power weapon is great, I feel like it should also stay as a good condition option, and even as a decent healing option (some of the selfish water skills could spread to allies, I think).

Lastly, be wary of Warhorn. It's currently the de-facto only option in terms of offhand right now. I feel mostly that this is due to the amount of catching up dagger and focus has to do with it-- Dagger especially, since focus has a defensive niche attached to it.

[draxynnic.3719]

On the dagger blast finishers: More convenient access to finishers might make dagger more practical as an alternative to hammer for catalysts as well. Still no easy finisher access on fire, though, but if creating a field and finishing it in one skill is now kosher, perhaps Burning Speed could also do so?

[Jski.6180]

I have question on how some of these updates work. Dose the frost field have an real duration or is it an skill only blast? Faster breaths fire 2 and water 2 will it tick faster or just not do as many ticks? Is the air overload fury pve only or not the wording is confusing.

Is pistol viable in anet eyes when its only usable vs single target pve fights?!

I like to see the staff update line cc have the same effect as pve in wvw that they are adding.

[Stallic.2397]

The new diamond skin is pretty redundant. You could already cleanse practically the same way on Catalyst.

Weaver and Tempest don't make a ton of fields so triggering combos will not be consistent. The change is mostly for catalyst, dagger players or a niche core build. Granted, the trait was incredibly outdated and needed a change. So anything is better than nothing. 

But I would have preferred a cleanse when hit with barrier every few seconds with no health threshold. Then implemented more barrier output across all specializations. 

The other trait changes are pretty good though.

Edited May 25 by Stallic.2397

[draxynnic.3719]

3 hours ago, Stallic.2397 said:

The new diamond skin is pretty redundant. You could already cleanse practically the same way on Catalyst.

Weaver and Tempest don't make a ton of fields so triggering combos will not be consistent. The change is mostly for catalyst, dagger players or a niche core build. Granted, the trait was incredibly outdated and needed a change. So anything is better than nothing. 

But I would have preferred a cleanse when hit with barrier every few seconds with no health threshold. Then implemented more barrier output across all specializations. 

The other trait changes are pretty good though.

Fire and air overloads generate fields, and the only weaponset that doesn't produce at least one field in fire attunement is hammer (and most have one or two fields in other attunements). I think it is a nerf for duelling builds that used Diamond Skin to be basically immune to conditions, but it could be a buff to party support.

[Jski.6180]

3 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Fire and air overloads generate fields, and the only weaponset that doesn't produce at least one field in fire attunement is hammer (and most have one or two fields in other attunements). I think it is a nerf for duelling builds that used Diamond Skin to be basically immune to conditions, but it could be a buff to party support.

The leap only being one self condi clear is a bit odd as the blast is an support (and self) condi clear. Maybe the leap should be 2? I REALTY hope that the clear it self is not on an cd or it would be mostly an dead trait. If not then there maybe real room for an core earth water fire support build.

[Dadnir.5038]

I really don't get the devs... Ideally, we would want a support to be squishy as a trade off and yet, they seem to enjoy buffing support's survivability.

Sure, Elementalist can afford 300 extra point of survivability but those points shouldn't be part of the "support" traitline. I believe the earth magic traitline was a lot more fitting for such an effect than the water magic traitline.

[Bladestrom.6425]

8 hours ago, Stallic.2397 said:

The new diamond skin is pretty redundant. You could already cleanse practically the same way on Catalyst.

Weaver and Tempest don't make a ton of fields so triggering combos will not be consistent. The change is mostly for catalyst, dagger players or a niche core build. Granted, the trait was incredibly outdated and needed a change. So anything is better than nothing. 

But I would have preferred a cleanse when hit with barrier every few seconds with no health threshold. Then implemented more barrier output across all specializations. 

The other trait changes are pretty good though.

this is the problem with this 'designer', he is fixated on melee and cata.  Diamond skin is a great skill if you use it properly and he just wrecked it so it fits into the melee model, exact same as he done with signets.

My other problem is Earthen synergy which is meant to be a bonus for Weaver, lock in 3/4 second cast ...to stun for 1.5 seconds, very bad.

[Szatko.8132]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I really don't get the devs... Ideally, we would want a support to be squishy as a trade off and yet, they seem to enjoy buffing support's survivability.

Sure, Elementalist can afford 300 extra point of survivability but those points shouldn't be part of the "support" traitline. I believe the earth magic traitline was a lot more fitting for such an effect than the water magic traitline.

Squishy supports? Not in this game...

[Szatko.8132]

Honestly I thought that elementalists will receive more drastic changes, like actual reworks to their weapon skills and not just stat changes. I like the fact that they want to make scepter a power weapon now, since the new weapon (pistol) is directly competing with it. Like someone said before, I would also change scepter's Rock Barrier to grant well... barrier instead of toughness to not mess with tank mechanics in the game and maybe bring an old water trident that heals allies and grants regen.

Also I don't think why would someone take earth spec for condi cleanse, when fire has much more to offer and why would someone choose water spec for strike damage? If anything ele's specialisations should become more specialised instead of shuffling support, utility, strike damage and condi damage traits all over the place. 

[Bladestrom.6425]

39 minutes ago, Szatko.8132 said:

Honestly I thought that elementalists will receive more drastic changes, like actual reworks to their weapon skills and not just stat changes. I like the fact that they want to make scepter a power weapon now, since the new weapon (pistol) is directly competing with it. Like someone said before, I would also change scepter's Rock Barrier to grant well... barrier instead of toughness to not mess with tank mechanics in the game and maybe bring an old water trident that heals allies and grants regen.

Also I don't think why would someone take earth spec for condi cleanse, when fire has much more to offer and why would someone choose water spec for strike damage? If anything ele's specialisations should become more specialised instead of shuffling support, utility, strike damage and condi damage traits all over the place. 

heres the problem

Option 1 :  add pistol as power weapon, continue to refine sceptre as condy/hybrid

Option 2, make pistol a condy weapon competing with sceptre, then try and rewrite sceptre as a power weapon.

Going for Option 2 smacks of making-it-up-as-you-go design, it undermines gameplay choices by existing players and wastes previous resource and time spent refining sceptre.  As for Condy cleanse, diamond skin is awesome for certain non-meta melee duel builds, which CMC just broke.  He done the exact same for signet builds due to poor vision.

Edited May 26 by Bladestrom.6425

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

9 hours ago, Stallic.2397 said:

The new diamond skin is pretty redundant. You could already cleanse practically the same way on Catalyst.

Weaver and Tempest don't make a ton of fields so triggering combos will not be consistent. The change is mostly for catalyst, dagger players or a niche core build. Granted, the trait was incredibly outdated and needed a change. So anything is better than nothing. 

But I would have preferred a cleanse when hit with barrier every few seconds with no health threshold. Then implemented more barrier output across all specializations. 

The other trait changes are pretty good though.

Ehh I disagree. Tempest has access to plenty of fields and giving earth some condi cleanse and resistance is great. I do think this change was more focused towards viability in PvP/WvW. 

 

Ele has been the third best support for a while now in PvP, or the fourth if you count core guard and firebrand as two separate things. Before ele just had no way to deal with chill and chill spam reaper has been strong for ages.

 

The earth traitline changes will greatly increase support tempests effectiveness and viability in PvP. 

[Bladestrom.6425]

1 hour ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

Ehh I disagree. Tempest has access to plenty of fields and giving earth some condi cleanse and resistance is great. I do think this change was more focused towards viability in PvP/WvW. 

 

Ele has been the third best support for a while now in PvP, or the fourth if you count core guard and firebrand as two separate things. Before ele just had no way to deal with chill and chill spam reaper has been strong for ages.

 

The earth traitline changes will greatly increase support tempests effectiveness and viability in PvP. 

Quite the opposite if you understood what synergies to use with diamond skin.

[Arheundel.6451]

16 hours ago, Stallic.2397 said:

The new diamond skin is pretty redundant. You could already cleanse practically the same way on Catalyst.

Weaver and Tempest don't make a ton of fields so triggering combos will not be consistent. The change is mostly for catalyst, dagger players or a niche core build. Granted, the trait was incredibly outdated and needed a change. So anything is better than nothing. 

But I would have preferred a cleanse when hit with barrier every few seconds with no health threshold. Then implemented more barrier output across all specializations. 

The other trait changes are pretty good though.

Literally, it will work only with a dagger/dagger catalyst and that's it

[soulknight.9620]

Anet, please give weaver some self quickness so that you could actually play weaver in open world. With nerfs to jade bot offensive and defensive buffs you literary have to go cata or tempest to play OW. A full zerk/full vipers weaver shouldnt do less damage than cele cata. 

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

7 hours ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

Quite the opposite if you understood what synergies to use with diamond skin.

Current diamond skin bad

[Jski.6180]

10 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I really don't get the devs... Ideally, we would want a support to be squishy as a trade off and yet, they seem to enjoy buffing support's survivability.

Sure, Elementalist can afford 300 extra point of survivability but those points shouldn't be part of the "support" traitline. I believe the earth magic traitline was a lot more fitting for such an effect than the water magic traitline.

You would think that would be armor though if it was earth i am not sure if 300 point of armor is the same as 300 vit. Its fine to have an mix of things fire kind of an good example of this an support GM though might and def GM though blinds on burn and an dmg GM though +% dmg when target on in fire fields. The other trait lines have just not cought up to this as most of eles traits are very out dated. Water is missing an aggressive GM its getting an def GM. Earth needs an aggrieve GM it already had an support GM so the its a bit odd but i guess keeping signet passive effect can be seen as some what aggressive. Air is missing an true support GM it kind of has an def GM though lighting rod.

If any thing cleaning water trait needs the update its fallen way behind aura clears and likely will be far behind blast/leap clears after this update.

[draxynnic.3719]

18 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

The leap only being one self condi clear is a bit odd as the blast is an support (and self) condi clear. Maybe the leap should be 2? I REALTY hope that the clear it self is not on an cd or it would be mostly an dead trait. If not then there maybe real room for an core earth water fire support build.

I think the principle is that leaps are considered in general to be a more common finisher than blasts, so leaps having a weaker effect makes sense in that context. Now, I'm not sure that's actually true in ele's case - ele has relatively few leaps, some fairly low cooldown blasts, and some skills you might otherwise think would be leaps aren't - but that might be the thinking.

[Chyro.1462]

So will a fire + earth tempest be a king of condi cleansing?

Don't know how much or how frequent other supports cleanse conditions, but it does sound a lot to cleanse on all auras and all blast finishers with how many of those you can fit into a tempest rotation. Could work for both more offensive condi builds or defensive heal builds.

[Jski.6180]

3 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I think the principle is that leaps are considered in general to be a more common finisher than blasts, so leaps having a weaker effect makes sense in that context. Now, I'm not sure that's actually true in ele's case - ele has relatively few leaps, some fairly low cooldown blasts, and some skills you might otherwise think would be leaps aren't - but that might be the thinking.

Ele has a lot less leaps or they would get a lot of use out of the new leap relic (old weaver rune set #6 that was never used by weaver hehe). Its just an odd chose is all even other leap/blast trait give the same effect so it should just simply be aoe clear on leap/blast combos.