This games balance is cooked

[Burnfall.9573]

On 6/1/2024 at 8:55 PM, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Seriously cooked. Your gameplay options are run around in a group where everyone is stacked as tightly as they possibly can be with every boon in the game and more supports/healing than dps where nothing dies or get ganked and ground into a paste by the no-lifers playing the top 5 unkillable meta builds with raid boss mechanics

(Throne and Liberty-WvW siege is on its way)

Game balanced has been cooked far too long and whatever left are left over burning ashes that is being toyed around. Whether The Community want to hear the truth, accept the truth or not, there it is, after 13 years Truth that WvW has been ignored endlesely and repeatidly by vigorously ignoring The Community concerns to turn the game into a healthy competitive gaming experience for all players including new potential players. Cruicial concerns being intentionally ignored since the game release (13 years including beta) are.. Game Design Favoritism, endless years of posts, threads by all players including Thief Profession players to remove/rework Toxic Game Designs such as Stealth Mechanic, +1 Shot,  Perma-Everything, allowing Toxic Profession Design in continuing creating a Toxic Game Experience for continual years on end without having any care to address them,  continuasly leaving the game (WvW) in having  its ashes set on fire on the ground for years and years and lastly, purposely allowing Toxicity to be the Balancing of the game

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv

 

"The Truth Doesn't Change If You Ignore It".

"Denying The Truth Doesn't Change The Facts"

Edited June 5 by Burnfall.9573

[AlphaReborn.1567]

The game is in the worst state it’s ever been from a competitive point of view and the developers seem either unwilling or unable to listen to their community whatsoever.

If you want to roam solo or with a small group you need to play one of the busted cele builds or don’t bother.  If you want to play with more than a few people, you better conform to the boon ball meta or don’t bother.

Defending is nearly impossible now, so don’t bother.

You liked the social aspect of the game? Here’s the world restructuring, without alliances, so don’t bother having friends either. 

Look I love GW2, that’s why I’m still here. But everything above has been complained about long into the past and to this day, yet the devs don’t seem to care even a little bit. It’s getting to the point where an overwhelming amount of my friends are giving up due to frustration, and it’s just not fun to play anymore.

 

[Aeolus.3615]

@AlphaReborn.1567 don't worry more boons are coming to address the game issues.

Edited June 6 by Aeolus.3615

[scerevisiae.1972]

this is what you get when you only use wvw commanders in a private forum for feedback.

[Draygo.9473]

The biggest enabling change to combat mechanics was when anet changed stability from stacking duration to stacking charges, this fundamentally changed the balance of CC vs CC defense as a consequence and is probably the single change that made boon-ball as meta dominate as it is today (secondarily is the boon application to subgroups). 

Now there were a couple of things broken about duration stacked stab: Boon corruption resulted in a really long fear. It was hard to push through multiple lines of warding allowing small groups to turtle chokes like the hills lord room. As such it was easier to split attacking groups and pick off stragglers that got caught in CC nets. 

The current formulation of boon ball it can be nearly impossible to pick an enemy to attrition them if the boon ball is playing correctly (there is a big difference between a bad boon ball with poor boon distribution and a good one). 

My preference would probably be for anet to cut down on stability sources or move stability to a much more limited boon in wvw (limit max stacks to like 2-3), and then visit all the CC abilities and make every single one of them dodgable, in addition to generally nerfing single target ranged pulls (reason, pin sniping is actually unfun). Leaning the game more into the active direction (dodge) instead of the passive direction (boons). Also by limiting the stacks, you buff active boon application more than passive application, passive meaning you are maintaining a boon on a rotation, vs active is when  you use the ability right when you think its needed. 

[Chaba.5410]

51 minutes ago, scerevisiae.1972 said:

this is what you get when you only use wvw commanders in a private forum for feedback.

Did you know that anyone can make a private "forum" (discord) to discuss feedback and invite devs?  Doesn't mean any dev is actually going to "use" it.  The newest private one I think is a "developer discord" for people who write third-party apps using the API and such.

[RisingDawn.5796]

Balancing has been mostly a nightmare, since each and every expansion, they've released with new Elite specs and gear stats, also the new relics, from Soto.

Also, they've had problems, splitting the balance between game modes.

Edited June 9 by RisingDawn.5796

[Chrome.9841]

I'm missing the days those we had to double dodge things 😕 Now perma stab, perma protection, big heals. Most of the squad plays minstrel / cele. Its just sad 😞

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

On 6/4/2024 at 12:32 PM, Chaba.5410 said:

The obsessions with numbers isn't because it's believed that balance will be achieved by it, but because large differences in player numbers remove and/or trivialize player options.  The numbers themselves become the only option.

Hello.

I understand the idea...that if you have one skill over there that does 10,000 damage, this other one over here that does 200 damage, then players flock to the skill that does 10,000 damage, and that trivializes the other skills...so people's conclusion is that the skill that does 10,000 damage should be nerfed.

But this is where these issues start creep in, because that is just an arbitrary choice. You could have just buffed the other skill by 9800. You could have just buffed both skills to do 15,000...or nerfed them both to do 3000 damage, like so :

Skill A : 3000 damage

Skill B : 3000 damage

Skill C : 3000 damage

And there’s an infinite number of possible arbitrary operations you could have picked. But worse than that, and i hope the above makes it more visually obvious is...if you want to solve that actual problem you have, which is that players keep choosing the bigger damage skill over the smaller damage skill they must have the same amount of damage, and therefor these two skills which are only defined by giving damage are just instantiations of the same skill, and this is called homogenization. Otherwise you are still left with the same problem you originally had : Players choosing the skill with the biggest number.

The way most people try to solve this is to add more unique parameters to the skills, say 10,000 damage in 500 radius, 200 damage in 2000 radius etc...But the problem doesn't go away...because you can't form equivalence statements that show the two unique parameters are equivalent to each other. At this point, the question for this example skill is already undecidable, but once these unique parameters become abstract enough...like say...3s immobilization and 3s of stability. It becomes obvious that one can't form equivalence statements between them.

To summarize: The post I made in support of Saltwind, is about how balance, at a fundamental level, is not mathematically sound, as you can't form equivalence statements about things. It doesn't matter what numbers you give to skills...It's "undefinable" unless the game is completely trivialized (homogenous), by virtue of the game having unique elements. In other words : If you want a game with unique elements in it, you can not balance it in a formal...logical...way, by a set of numerical nerf or buff operations.

It's as i said earlier you know...this is a hard pill for most people to swallow.  I think it's because its such an in-ones-face confrontation to truths people don't want to accept : That some things are not possible...not logical and not definable. This problem is not even a statement about guild wars...this is a bulk statement about balancing in general that applies to any and all games...and extends to mathematics and systems of formal logic themselves...which is typically how we operate in the world, in everything we do as humans.

I can't emphasize more, that this is a catastrophic breakdown of some people's worldviews. It certainly was for me 5 years ago.

But what is certainly a misconception about this is that numbers are the only option. That's not true...its just not easy to see what the other options are, when we as humans are so geared and focused on numbers, and built our world on formal logic. There's no simple way to put it, but basically instantiation (exploring the space of all possible game interactions) and making that space larger to explore, is how one brings "balance" to the game. Remember...balance isn't real, it doesn't exist...it is just an illusion of our experience of the game as it goes through this instantiation of different behaviors. The idea (at least in a logical sense) would be that you would want the number of unique experiences to be a lot...not just one (unless you want to play a linear-like game, where you want the player to experience only one particular thing) and you want those experiences to be meaningful...which has to do with the depth of the game mechanics...in the words of Saltwind the amount of "cool" in the tools you have available to you. There's a number of ways we can formally define those things...but it boils down into this idea of an exploration space and just giving players the options to explore it...so that when builds show up, other builds are made that suppress those builds...and this problem-solution dynamic in a well designed game, where the game has enough depth...should just continue forever and ever in a meaningful way to us.

Hope this addressed your comment, Cheers.

 

On 6/4/2024 at 1:01 PM, Elricht Kaltwind.8796 said:

I really enjoyed reading this reply, thank you and well-reasoned.

Thank you sir. Same to you.

Edited June 12 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Creativity.3816]

healer wars 2

[Aeolus.3615]

33 minutes ago, Creativity.3816 said:

healer wars 2

but every one get heal nerfs so all that is left is being  forced to  full misntrells and perma boons

 

Edit: legend says some people still believe minstrel blobs dont exist or that even misntrells stats are a lie to blame bad gamers that can only 60 vs 5 and PVD.

Gw2 made by lamers for lamers!

Edited June 15 by Aeolus.3615

[Burnfall.9573]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgpwRG4soQw

"Learn to be done. Not mad, not bothered, just done."

 

Once again, 13 Years+ has proven over and over again that, Bad Design can not be "balance". 

The game has been effected with over 13 years+ of Bad Design, just like leaving effected tooth that has been infected and ignored for too long.

How do you resolve an infection that has been ignored for too long? 

You remove it!!

You remove the infected tooth

The only way toput an end to 13 years+ of Bad Design?

Remove them!!

Edited June 15 by Burnfall.9573

[XenesisII.1540]

21 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

but every one get heal nerfs so all that is left is being  forced to  full misntrells and perma boons

 

Edit: legend says some people still believe minstrel blobs dont exist or that even misntrells stats are a lie to blame bad gamers that can only 60 vs 5 and PVD.

Gw2 made by lamers for lamers!

I mean these days you don't need a minstrel blob to run over pugs, celestial would be better in this regard, and they run away, aka switch maps, if facing a bigger/better group anyways. 🤷‍♂️