joneirikb.7506 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 Basically, since the current balance is so kitten that not even a thousand yarn balls could fix it, if ANet for some reason made a GW2-vanilla mode/game where you could play GW2 wvw with the balance from 2014 (before stability and HOT nerfs/changes). Would you want to? This would obviously exclude every single bit of stuff we've gotten from expansions, like mount, gliding, all the new stat sets, runes, sigils, food, elite specs, and new weapon proficiencies etc. Would also ditch DesertBL (Though I personally would be ok with keeping that). And removing the guild system changes among other things. Mostly just for fun, I'm just curious to see how many would be willing to ditch all the stuff they've gotten over the years for having an actually better balanced combat again, and see what people value the most. 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 I would play it for a bit, then I'd get bored with how vanilla it is without some skills, utilities, or mechanics that have been added since then that are a lot of fun to use. One bonus for me would be a few cheaper Initiative skills. I used to like to Jump + Infiltrators arrow across a map but it's just not in my budget anymore. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbizz.9406 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 Im assuming the game would still be terribly unbalanced with just core builds for WvW. Some core classes have just been sacrificed to the elite specializations and left behind so much that people just don't consider them as options. From my point of view people don't play engineer. They play mechanist, holosmith, or scrapper. Seeing someone playing a core class usually means they're new, inexperienced, or just doesn't have access to the elite specs. And I think that's sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joneirikb.7506 Posted June 5 Author Share Posted June 5 4 minutes ago, Bigbizz.9406 said: Im assuming the game would still be terribly unbalanced with just core builds for WvW. Some core classes have just been sacrificed to the elite specializations and left behind so much that people just don't consider them as options. From my point of view people don't play engineer. They play mechanist, holosmith, or scrapper. Seeing someone playing a core class usually means they're new, inexperienced, or just doesn't have access to the elite specs. And I think that's sad Just to clarify, I'm talking about a complete roll-back to how the game was in end of 2014. So none of the current nerfs or changes would apply. Heck, thief would still have the Ricochet shot trait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 3 minutes ago, Bigbizz.9406 said: Im assuming the game would still be terribly unbalanced with just core builds for WvW. Some core classes have just been sacrificed to the elite specializations and left behind so much that people just don't consider them as options. From my point of view people don't play engineer. They play mechanist, holosmith, or scrapper. Seeing someone playing a core class usually means they're new, inexperienced, or just doesn't have access to the elite specs. And I think that's sad Eh some core specs perform well enough still these days, but that in part is because core trait lines have been improved over the years too. All the professions still have a functional core meta build they could use, the elites are still obviously better because of their power/sustain/mobility creep, but there's vets that can make core work well if they wanted to, I've seen some floating around still. There's benefits to either side of pre or post HoT eras, HoT was the intro to the condition rework spam and boon spam. So would I want to go back to classic wvw, maybe, would get away from all this boon balling kitten, but I'd miss aspects of my chrono mirage reaper scourge specs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caffynated.5713 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 Yes, I enjoyed the pace of vanilla combat much more, and found it overall far more readable to enable counterplay. Now it feels like everyone just farts out damage, boons and healing with a slight wave of their hand. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 I don't think rolling back is ever a good option since there have been a lot of positive changes over time. If you are looking at it even from just a balance aspect its also still hard to say since we had more servers, more players, more activity. There were calls to nerf every class at that time as well that would cycle about as we see now. There were large scale versus small scale back and fourths, people calling people to use meta and nerf things that worked against 'meta' builds that were called OP right or wrong. There was more work to upgrade things and more griefing when people did all that just to see their side just ktrain not care if they lose a T3 that players had spent time building up. Rewards are much better now even if still low, but you don't have to now leave WvW to make coin to play WvW. No I think we still have a lot of potential in the game mode to refresh it, but I don't think going back to those times would work since we lost a lot of people due to lack of changes at the time as well. I think we need to move forward and see what can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscuro.9720 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 (edited) Vanilla and the current game are basically entirely different combat systems imo. The pacing, the resource management, the approach to matchups, the mobility, the way in which game systems are accessed and leveraged are all so far apart that even the aspects of a player’s play style that confer advantages have changed. Would I play it? Yes. Is it better? In some ways yes, in some ways no. I personally find core vs core matchups in the current game to be far more enjoyable than fighting with elite specializations. Everything slows down, everything becomes more deliberate, there’s less waiting for the gap in stability coverage or waiting for the gap in blocks or waiting for the gap in [insert high uptime mitigation mechanic here]. edit: I’d love an event where wvw locks everyone out of especs for a month just to see what it is like. It could be fun, it could be miserable. It’s hard to tell tbh. But I know 1v1 matchups on core classes are probably the most enjoyable in the game right now. Edited June 5 by oscuro.9720 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 2 hours ago, joneirikb.7506 said: Just to clarify, I'm talking about a complete roll-back to how the game was in end of 2014. So none of the current nerfs or changes would apply. Heck, thief would still have the Ricochet shot trait! Ricochet was kind of satisfying, but not as viscerally satisfying as some of the Staff skills or Death's Retreat, Shadow Shroud, Wells, etc. Some core limitations felt alright in Action Camera, but so much since then feels really fluid with Action cam, to the point where my main template is more of a vibe like I get racing Roller Beatles. I don't care all that much about keeping balance super tight or whatever the problematic meta is at the moment. I'm going to trouble shoot whatever is there the same regardless. I'm logging into WvW maps after for the ride if there's people on. I will say though, that core skills tend to be more reliable or crisp if you're doing combos with Jump and Dodge. The one post core skill that combos really well is Bound dodge if you want land it down range with Infiltraitors Arrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stash.8401 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 I'm positive if there was a private server that was vanilla for WvW and only allowed of the 3 team, all maps would be queued all the time. A lot of old players would come back to the game mode. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 I voted yes bc I'm a nostalgic sort, but I took the question to mean would I play it if it was available, not would I like to see the current system rolled back to where vanilla was the only option. If they both offered the opportunity to advance cheeves, rewards tracks, wv, etc. the same way then I would likely play vanilla exclusively, but I'd still like the current system available if only to keep the ppls who prefer the current system from polluting my paradise ; p 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 (edited) Quote WOULD YOU PLAY VANILLA GW2 BALANCE? 1. Would you play a GW2 Vanilla combat for WvW? These are two very different questions. Necro player perspective: In 2013 "vanilla balance" meant that core necro could twoshot thieves from range with trait- and sigil procs, had 2% life force degenereation and could corrupt all boons on the target (one target! cause balance you know, no aoe powercreep nonsense like scourge years later) each 30 seconds to secure a kill. Today vanilla basically means "terrible mechanics like core shroud, useless mechanics like "strip 1 boon", low pressure and slow pacing". If that's what you have in mind, then: No thanks!. Edited June 6 by KrHome.1920 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkpile.7439 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 (edited) Scepter/dagger core ele could do damage, meteornado made meteorshower do damage and not just tagging skill. Warrior hammer was viable and so on. Spectral walk could stop you in air and you never took fall damage. Good times. Funny how all fun stuff is ruined. Can't even use ride the lighting in air like before. 🥳 Edited June 6 by Junkpile.7439 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teknomancer.4895 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 16 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said: edit: I’d love an event where wvw locks everyone out of especs for a month just to see what it is like. It could be fun, it could be miserable. It’s hard to tell tbh. But I know 1v1 matchups on core classes are probably the most enjoyable in the game right now. It could be fun, but I'm not convinced that all classes would still be equally viable; Engi players for example might simply vanish for a while. Plus a whole month might be overkill, one week would be more than enough to spike everyone's sodium levels. And don't limit it to WvW either, make it game-wide. Why only tick off one segment of the playerbase when you can do it to everyone? 😆 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisingDawn.5796 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 (edited) Pre-hot before stability was changed, the wvw and gvg scene was quite active all round, especially as the GWEN meta didn't shift towards anything not enjoyable, like the turtle (boonball) and even the condi meta on some servers atm. After that post HoT, not so good, yet you had some more viable classes due to the HoT specs, rather than some core classes who might feel left out, in at least the large scale sense, but we're fine in small scale or in a focus party. Edited June 7 by RisingDawn.5796 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscuro.9720 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 17 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said: It could be fun, but I'm not convinced that all classes would still be equally viable; Engi players for example might simply vanish for a while. Plus a whole month might be overkill, one week would be more than enough to spike everyone's sodium levels. And don't limit it to WvW either, make it game-wide. Why only tick off one segment of the playerbase when you can do it to everyone? 😆 Oh I said a month, I meant a matchup, lol. I don’t think classes would be equally viable for just core, but fights would be more fun. I am not particularly concerned with balance, I’m more concerned about what is enjoyable to play, and I believe core v core is more enjoyable across almost every matchup then meta or really the vast majority of espec matchups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keramatzmode.1906 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Rabid bunker engis, we are so back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldtart.4785 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Voted yes. Everyone should get the chance to experience the GWEN meta. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joneirikb.7506 Posted June 8 Author Share Posted June 8 (edited) On 6/6/2024 at 3:29 AM, Stash.8401 said: I'm positive if there was a private server that was vanilla for WvW and only allowed of the 3 team, all maps would be queued all the time. A lot of old players would come back to the game mode. I was sitting thinking about the server aspect of this, but figured it wasn't really worth cluttering up the topic about. For one thing since I know they're never going to anything like this topic anyways, and I understand why they couldn't even if they wanted to. And that it would have required two clients to pull off at this point. But the tldr is that I see 2 ways to handle servers in a "Classic GW2-WvW edition": * Use WR * Use Linking, make new smaller servers, max size 500 Since this would split population, and we have no idea how many players there would be at any given time (one of the good reasons why ANet would never do this). But yeah, that was off-topic, sorry Original Poster.... oh that's me... dooh! Edited June 8 by joneirikb.7506 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Calaway.9718 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 Golden year of GW2, we'll always have our memories. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSeed.3528 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Back on the old forum I gave the idea for event/map for core/vanilla, which I thought would be fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercurialKuroSludge.8974 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Back in the old days most of you were complaining about the game mode too, and if you actually get to play it again, most of you would start remembering stuff you complained about. Like old exploits that never got removed, balance, etc. Its the playerbase you need to get back, but you will never have it again, so Vanillna WvW or currrent WvW, you will not find either fun. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosangelina.3694 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Since I came from that era back to the game about a year ago, after all I've seen since, I'd say yes, absolutely. It seems to me either the elites feel op, or not quite at the level of the others. I prefer Reaper in the current state of things because it doesn't feel op to me or all that boon-spammy. When I tried harbinger briefly a month back it felt way too easy to just push a few buttons and win. Idk. In the core days though it felt like all of the classes were very well balanced and everything had their counters. Mesmer was my favourite back then for wvw, and I played DD Ele and Power necro all of the time in pvp, it was just more fun then. I never felt that any class was "better" than the other, it was mostly up to preference and proficiency at the class of choice. As far as engis go, I still have mine decked with the old condition grenade build from way back (pistol/shield, armor had perplexity runes I think they were called), I remember the build was ridiculous back then in like 2014 pre-HoT. So they were still a viable choice then. I never really got into engi but I tried it a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 (edited) Early warning tl,dr version: The links are not meant to be all hit, was listing various subjects from the time frame and was trying to grab repeating topics we see today or theard with high hit while swinging thru early forums. Thinking about it more and checking old posts, no the time frame had its own issues, classes that were OP in various scales of play, population issues, coverage issues, queue issues, level issues, stacked servers, double team and or target the weakest, server placement issues, matchup issues, organized vs unorganized and others that aren't as much an issue now. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv?page=890 Adding various topics that have a number of hits, this is not intended as go to each link but you are welcome to view various topics but that was not the main intent for anyone to hit each one but more various topics around then: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Sick-of-long-queue-times-Easymode-PvP https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Stop-PvE-ing-IN-W3 https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Squad-Commander-qualifications https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvWvW-Question-about-how-Queue-Works \https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Why-not-just-one-week-matches https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Please-turn-off-server-transfers https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Que-Priority-For-Level https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Server-alliances-ruins-WvW https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Is-WvWvW-for-casuals https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Meteor-shower-is-overpowered https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Tough-matchup https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Henge-of-Denravi-Alliance-with-Stormbluff-Unacceptable https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Selfish-Self-Centered https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Merged-World-Mismatches https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/The-real-problem-here-is-invisible-enemies-Give-their-algorithms-time-to-match-servers-properly https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Desolation-WvW-and-Server-Organization https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Sanctum-of-Rall-vs-Yak-s-Bend-vs-Gate-of-Madness-10-12-12 https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/No-reward-for-playing-Support-Healer https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/The-unmitigated-foolishness-of-asking-for-WvW-to-be-balanced-on-what-time-of-day-you-play https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Forts-fall-too-fast-Lords-are-worthless https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/RIP-WvW https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/HoD-sweeping-in-WvW https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Why-all-the-complaints-against-Northern-Shiverpeaks https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Analysis-of-GW2-WvW-compared-to-DAoC-RvR-Long https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/so-the-answer-is-locking-all-debate-down-about-night-capping https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/about-warrior-s-Kill-shot-and-downed-state https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Intelligently-Designed-Realm-Ranking-System-for-WvW https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/dry-toast-pvp-harcore-pvpers-from-daoc-warhammer-bored-couple-of-ideas https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvWvW-has-been-a-complete-total-comprehensive-failure https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Combat-Rezzing-Needs-to-Change https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Who-is-the-best-commander-on-your-server https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/so-where-is-this-mythical-money-in-wvw https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Culling-Turtling-Portal-Bombing https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-T1-will-only-be-english-speaking-servers https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Stop-Selling-Commander-Title https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Why-Orb-Removal-Will-be-Very-Bad-for-WvW https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Thief-Ownage https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Please-Keep-timezones-separated https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/North-American-WvW-guilds-should-move-to-Europe https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Please-remove-arrow-carts-from-wvw https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Turtling-Intended-or-Not https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/The-Class-for-WvWvW https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Gear-Grind-coming-to-WvW https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Rewards https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Healing-over-5-gone https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/World-vs-World-Player-limits-are-needed https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Suggestions-for-new-WvW-maps https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Are-we-ever-going-to-remove-the-downed-state https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Keep-Ascended-Gear-Out-Of-WvW https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Why-is-there-an-AoE-limit-of-5-targets https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Mesmer-Portal-Fix https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Well-mesmer-is-useless-in-a-siege-now https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Same-opponents-for-the-third-time https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Downed-State-needs-changes https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-is-Losing-it-s-Fun https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Most-annoying-class-to-deal-with-in-WvW https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/The-33K-Kill-Shot-in-WvW https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Tired-of-Fighting-the-Same-Servers https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Downed-state-in-WvWvW-should-be-removed https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/I-m-tire-of-people-crying-about-thieves https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/EU-Players-come-to-NA-We-have-candy https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Can-t-anyone-respect-a-duel https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Do-you-want-a-skilled-game https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/ComingTo-WvW-on-12-14-renamed https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/In-my-opinion-paying-transfers-will-create-problems https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Rangers-wvw https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Max-Target-Aoe-Zergs-and-You https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Strongest-Class-in-World-vs-World And list could go on, but I think I feel down in my rabbit hole and will leave it there. So, go back...I added my vote to rant below.... 🙂 No I think we need to still look forward since we will have repeats in any case. Good hunting. Edited June 9 by TheGrimm.5624 edit: extra spaces 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrome.9841 Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 They don't even need to back to vanilla. Just give us same rewards at EoTM <.< 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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