Lockdown meta (aka CC spam) is not fun

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

As the title says.  The current CC spam meta is not fun at all for roaming, havoc, small zerg, full map que zerg.  Please for the love of all that's good and holy do something about the amount of CC spam!

[Zyreva.1078]

The meta is boon ball and boon balls are immune to cc, so i don't know what you are talking about.

Stab, stunbreaks and many other defenses have seen massive buffs over the years - CC not so much. Remember when cc did dmg and cc spam could actually kill you? Remember when most stunbreak skills had a cd of 45s and more? Remember when stab was very hard to come by for most classes? CC is weaker than ever.

Edited June 12 by Zyreva.1078

[Chaba.5410]

Have you tried not standing in the red circles and getting your boons stripped?

[Lalary.3561]

I seriously hope you are complaining about CC from boonball, not single target focused skills. I'm getting so sick of how these clueless fools always touch non-problematic skills like removing knockdown from smokescale takedown skills and about remove damage from earthen synergy.

Edited June 12 by Lalary.3561

[PetrLivingLife.8516]

10 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

The meta is boon ball and boon balls are immune to cc, so i don't know what you are talking about.

Stab, stunbreaks and many other defenses have seen massive buffs over the years - CC not so much. Remember when cc did dmg and cc spam could actually kill you? Remember when most stunbreak skills had a cd of 45s and more? Remember when stab was very hard to come by for most classes? CC is weaker than ever.

There are tiers and different servers, so s/he can have totally different experience than you because maybe their server has low population and is disorganized, therefore easy to lock down. Ie both views may be valid. 😛

[Zyreva.1078]

4 hours ago, PetrLivingLife.8516 said:

There are tiers and different servers, so s/he can have totally different experience than you because maybe their server has low population and is disorganized, therefore easy to lock down. Ie both views may be valid. 😛

Tiers and servers (linkings) change. Also i'm a roamer, so how populated and organised or unorganised the rest of my server is, has absolutely no impact on my experience.

The difference is that i know how to deal with cc in situations where cc can be dealt with - eg somewhat even fights or outnumbered vs noobs, and don't blame cc in situations where i should die - eg. getting ganked by a more or less organised gank squad or simply run over by a blob.

Edited June 13 by Zyreva.1078

[lindstroem.3601]

21 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

The meta is boon ball and boon balls are immune to cc, so i don't know what you are talking about.

Stab, stunbreaks and many other defenses have seen massive buffs over the years - CC not so much. Remember when cc did dmg and cc spam could actually kill you? Remember when most stunbreak skills had a cd of 45s and more? Remember when stab was very hard to come by for most classes? CC is weaker than ever.

The meta is boon ball meta cause you cant make 5 steps without being CCed or pulled around by some random ability. Fights in this game are literally impossible to play without perma stab. And to make sure that your stab isnt just stripped by a random strip ability flying around, you just stack everything you can get.

Edited June 13 by lindstroem.3601

[Zyreva.1078]

27 minutes ago, lindstroem.3601 said:

The meta is boon ball meta cause you cant make 5 steps without being CCed or pulled around by some random ability. Fights in this game are literally impossible to play without perma stab. And to make sure that your stab isnt just stripped by a random strip ability flying around, you just stack everything you can get.

Boon ball would be meta even with hard cc completely removed from the game. Boon strip has been nerfed heavily. And i can play just fine without perma stab.

[TheGrimm.5624]

42 minutes ago, lindstroem.3601 said:

The meta is boon ball meta cause you cant make 5 steps without being CCed or pulled around by some random ability. Fights in this game are literally impossible to play without perma stab. And to make sure that your stab isnt just stripped by a random strip ability flying around, you just stack everything you can get.

CC is the counter to boon ball. You will find CC due to boon ball. I hate to say it but we may need more CC and more damage to counter the boon ball meta in place. 

[Kate.3679]

1 hour ago, lindstroem.3601 said:

The meta is boon ball meta cause you cant make 5 steps without being CCed or pulled around by some random ability. Fights in this game are literally impossible to play without perma stab. And to make sure that your stab isnt just stripped by a random strip ability flying around, you just stack everything you can get.

the cloud servers seem to be doing just fine without perma stab 

[lindstroem.3601]

Cloud servers where 2/3 of the server is stacked with garbage builds like warbender and core thief/deadeyen who literally dont care because of their broken mobility and bloated kit. Literally awesome example for my point.

Edited June 13 by lindstroem.3601

[kash.9213]

4 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

CC is the counter to boon ball. You will find CC due to boon ball. I hate to say it but we may need more CC and more damage to counter the boon ball meta in place. 

I think a lot of us have mentioned before, boons should have a more deliberate use and duration to be more clutch than sustained. The strength of a currently topped out composition would still be up front in a fight, but there would be more or longer windows for a spectrum of players to work with to dismantle a blob. 

I think then we could think about simmering CC down to being more decisive and considerably stronger and moving more towards deliberate forms of defense like active blocking or parry, where right now CC and CC chains feel like the most reliable and sustainable non passive defense. 

[ChrisWhitey.9076]

CC is king in a lot of PvP MMOs and the ones that it is not there is some sort of diminishing returns for over use on a target. What is being requested here is likely going to take a very big rework to the point I don't see a quick fix. Yeah it is not fun to feel like someone unplugged your keyboard but think of stab as your health bar you lose it you lose the fight.

[Edu.6984]

Stand your ground is one of the most popular sources of aoe stab. It has a good radius (600), it is insta cast and one of the few skills that give so many stacks of stab for allies.

SYG cooldown in wvw/pve : 24s

SYG cooldown in spvp: 48s

 

While I think the low CD should be kept, because there are more CC in wvw, I think it needs some nerfs. I suggest reducing de amount of stability stacks for allies from 5 to 1-2.

[XenesisII.1540]

11 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

CC is the counter to boon ball. You will find CC due to boon ball. I hate to say it but we may need more CC and more damage to counter the boon ball meta in place. 

I disagree, adding more cc's would be one of the worse ways to go about it, there's already too much especially in a game that doesn't even have diminishing returns on it.

We already had a system in place to counter boon spam, but it's being nerfed every patch. 🤷‍♂️

[ArchonWing.9480]

I get the feeling most people are getting immobilized so it seems like wasting all the stunbreaks/stab doesn't seem to help.

Also it's pretty obvious who's getting carried every fight, please deposit salt here.

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

I disagree, adding more cc's would be one of the worse ways to go about it, there's already too much especially in a game that doesn't even have diminishing returns on it.

We already had a system in place to counter boon spam, but it's being nerfed every patch. 🤷‍♂️

🙂 If we can't get a balance in boon versus anti-boon. Give me more CC and damage and, well, we will live in interesting times. 

But agree I have guildmates that favor the Warhammer system of CC immunities after being hit to prevent lockdowns. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I get the feeling most people are getting immobilized so it seems like wasting all the stunbreaks/stab doesn't seem to help.

Also it's pretty obvious who's getting carried every fight, please deposit salt here.

Best reason for all WvW players to sPvP is to get that amulet for times of need. 🙂 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vial_of_Salt

 

[Zyreva.1078]

10 hours ago, Edu.6984 said:

While I think the low CD should be kept, because there are more CC in wvw, I think it needs some nerfs. I suggest reducing de amount of stability stacks for allies from 5 to 1-2.

I actually think the opposite. Reducing the amount of stab stacks means the skill becomes worthless vs cc spam (and therefore vs larger numbers) while as broken as ever in less cc heavy situations. Generally i think using a stab skill should be impactful and grant reliabe cc immunity unless stripped by boon removal - but impactful skills should also have a long enough downtime, so wasteful use can be punished and players have to think when to use them instead of pressing buttons on cd, because they come back so fast and there's so much other sources of (aoe) stab too.

(Like 95% of players i encounter while roaming that have a skill like SyG, dolyak stance, armor of earth and so on, use it in the first 10s of a fight and with no actual need to do so - players are absolutely terrible at managing cds ...)

 

Edited June 14 by Zyreva.1078

[Edu.6984]

12 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

I actually think the opposite. Reducing the amount of stab stacks means the skill becomes worthless vs cc spam (and therefore vs larger numbers) while as broken as ever in less cc heavy situations. Generally i think using a stab skill should be impactful and grant reliabe cc immunity unless stripped by boon removal - but impactful skills should also have a long enough downtime, so wasteful use can be punished and players have to think when to use them instead of pressing buttons on cd, because they come back so fast and there's so much other sources of (aoe) stab too.

(Like 95% of players i encounter while roaming that have a skill like SyG, dolyak stance, armor of earth and so on, use it in the first 10s of a fight and with no actual need to do so - players are absolutely terrible at managing cds ...)

 

I think one of the biggest problems with support is how well it scales with large numbers. It is fine to have a guardian having lots of stab, it becomes a problem when 1 player can give that much stab for 5 people. Keeping the 5 stacks for self while reducing the effect for allies would keep the skill good for roaming and nerf it for zerging.

2 stacks from a single skill cast by an ally is quite a lot stab for a skill that is insta cast and has 600 radius. 

 

SyG, dolyak stance, armor of earth are super strong for self, but give nothing or very little for allies, not making them a problem in zergs.

 

12 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Like 95% of players i encounter while roaming that have a skill like SyG, dolyak stance, armor of earth and so on, use it in the first 10s of a fight and with no actual need to do so - players are absolutely terrible at managing cds ...)

 

That is the biggest difference between roaming and zerging. In roaming those bad players get punished for wasting their stab skills. On a zerg you are incentivized to use a lot of stuff out of cd because you can mantain 100% uptime of pretty much all boons... 

 

Stacks are there for a reason. There should not be one skill that can give nearly infinite aoe " reliabe cc immunity" without a tradeoff. Reducing aoe stab stacks make people less willing to facetank CC. 

 

 

 

 

[Burnfall.9573]

On 6/12/2024 at 2:48 PM, Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

As the title says.  The current CC spam meta is not fun at all for roaming, havoc, small zerg, full map que zerg.  Please for the love of all that's good and holy do something about the amount of CC spam!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W-fCvJYq2U

(PvP version) Lockdown-StunLock-CC spam is not fun and pushing players away from playing explained

Wasn't Guild Wars 2 was supposed to be a successor of skill-base Guild Wars (1)?

What happened during the transitioning and process from a Skill base game to becoming a  F.P.S lock-down non-stop pulls aoe vomit everywhere 1-hit shoot wonder spamming to win play auto-attack hide and seek game?

How far will this direction of the game go?

Edited June 15 by Burnfall.9573

[Spiral.3724]

I was just complaining about this tonight. 
Ran out into a fight with my zerg ... immediately stunned or dazed or something. All of my skills went on cooldown and there was nothing I could do but stand there and die.
And I was playing warrior with access to two stunbreaks, neither of which were available to be used.
I'm not quite sure what is going on. The ArcDPS logs are difficult to read for this kind of thing. 
I might record my gameplay to slow it down and try to see what effects are on me. 
(As long as my boons & condis don't scroll off under my mini-map 😣)