From Belonging to Frustration: A GW2 Roamer's Journey

[EstaticFear.7692]

First of all, hello everyone. Let me start by introducing myself. Some of you who know me in WvW may recognize me as "Noga," "zZz Guy," or "zZz Necro." My journey with "GW2" began right from its release date. Thank you for taking the time to read this, and I will continue with my writing.

Our existence on this planet depends on how we adapt to our environment and, most importantly, on the stability of the planet's living conditions throughout our evolutionary process. (I'm sure you're thinking, 'What is he rambling about?')

If our planet were to warn us that in ten years we would need to breathe nitrogen instead of oxygen, this would be a drastic and disastrous change, potentially causing the deaths of billions of people. (I apologize for subjecting you to these ramblings.)

In a similar way, this is exactly the situation many "roamers" are experiencing in GW2 today. Since GW2's release, we've developed a familiar style, shaping our play and socializing within our friend circles. In this style, simply put, people feel a sense of belonging to their server, developing habits of defending, attacking, and protecting fellow server members in WvW elements. And this style is not solely based on winning. It includes people who adapt to the imbalance between servers and fight for their server regardless.

As it stands now, your changes are turning us into nothing more than lab rats. We were already in this situation (server power imbalance). These changes you are making do not address the existing server imbalances and fail to offer any real benefits. These changes are only pleasing to those who play with a high-population community and log in from one raid to another. The financially motivated changes you are making to balance your server costs are turning us into lab rats with a 'let's try this' and 'didn't work, try that' approach. And this, I'm sorry to say, is bullying. (You may delete my message, but I couldn't find any other word to describe it.)

Anyway, I don't want to drag this out. I just wanted to share my thoughts. Thank you for your patience in reading.

[Codename T.2847]

Just go play inside a zerg, whether you like it or not. : P

[Jobber.6348]

The real complaint here seems to be the destruction of Server culture, bonds and unity and Server tribalism. This has nothing to do with roaming at all. 

Has roamers stopped adapting? Heck no. Roamers have been adapting, and always have been adapting. But at some point, roamers roam in such a large group, it's basically smallscale/havoc sized "roaming" and I think that's the angle that Anet has wanted to push the players all along. By repeatedly nerfing solo capabilities, you push players to play together in larger groups. 

Now that the current roaming culture is basically group based ganking, Roaming is dead. Roaming has been dead. Anet did not kill it, players simply moved in that direction as the balance dictated. 

I ask you OP: why have you not then taken the initiative to gather and rally your friendlies to yourself, making your own havoc guild and then continuing with each new shuffle to participate with friendly faces and even gather up new ones? This is you lacking the initiative or being reluctant to keep your treasured bonds in tact. This is on you. 


 

[TheGrimm.5624]

20 hours ago, EstaticFear.7692 said:

First of all, hello everyone. Let me start by introducing myself. Some of you who know me in WvW may recognize me as "Noga," "zZz Guy," or "zZz Necro." My journey with "GW2" began right from its release date. Thank you for taking the time to read this, and I will continue with my writing.

Our existence on this planet depends on how we adapt to our environment and, most importantly, on the stability of the planet's living conditions throughout our evolutionary process. (I'm sure you're thinking, 'What is he rambling about?')

If our planet were to warn us that in ten years we would need to breathe nitrogen instead of oxygen, this would be a drastic and disastrous change, potentially causing the deaths of billions of people. (I apologize for subjecting you to these ramblings.)

In a similar way, this is exactly the situation many "roamers" are experiencing in GW2 today. Since GW2's release, we've developed a familiar style, shaping our play and socializing within our friend circles. In this style, simply put, people feel a sense of belonging to their server, developing habits of defending, attacking, and protecting fellow server members in WvW elements. And this style is not solely based on winning. It includes people who adapt to the imbalance between servers and fight for their server regardless.

As it stands now, your changes are turning us into nothing more than lab rats. We were already in this situation (server power imbalance). These changes you are making do not address the existing server imbalances and fail to offer any real benefits. These changes are only pleasing to those who play with a high-population community and log in from one raid to another. The financially motivated changes you are making to balance your server costs are turning us into lab rats with a 'let's try this' and 'didn't work, try that' approach. And this, I'm sorry to say, is bullying. (You may delete my message, but I couldn't find any other word to describe it.)

Anyway, I don't want to drag this out. I just wanted to share my thoughts. Thank you for your patience in reading.

Server pride myself so I get where you are coming from. Others will not depending on a score of reasons on why they were less server orientated. Different players will see it differently.  I play various scales of play, including roaming. There is still a lot of action out there for roamers. There are new peeps that will need a hand in a fight. It sucks not being able to back up familiar faces but there are options. Right now I am on vacation personally in WvW so seeing the sights. And seeing even more faces I didn't see during linking so that's interesting on it's own. But if you want to get back to that server feeling versus float on the wind, then I would say find a community guild and link up with like minded players. They won't be rolling back the WR so its up to each of the server pride side players to float or find new homes. Till you find one, good hunting! And might catch you on the crossroads for a dance off. 

- Grimm

[EstaticFear.7692]

4 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

The real complaint here seems to be the destruction of Server culture, bonds and unity and Server tribalism. This has nothing to do with roaming at all. 

Has roamers stopped adapting? Heck no. Roamers have been adapting, and always have been adapting. But at some point, roamers roam in such a large group, it's basically smallscale/havoc sized "roaming" and I think that's the angle that Anet has wanted to push the players all along. By repeatedly nerfing solo capabilities, you push players to play together in larger groups. 

Now that the current roaming culture is basically group based ganking, Roaming is dead. Roaming has been dead. Anet did not kill it, players simply moved in that direction as the balance dictated. 

I ask you OP: why have you not then taken the initiative to gather and rally your friendlies to yourself, making your own havoc guild and then continuing with each new shuffle to participate with friendly faces and even gather up new ones? This is you lacking the initiative or being reluctant to keep your treasured bonds in tact. This is on you. 


 

First of all, thank you for your engagement, but let's clear up a few points.

You claim that the destruction of server culture, bonds, and unity has nothing to do with roaming. However, you're missing the deep connection between these elements. Roaming is not just about wandering around; it's about the spontaneous, organic interactions that occur when players are part of a cohesive server community. These interactions strengthen bonds and create a sense of belonging. When the fundamental structure of server communities is disrupted, it naturally affects roaming as well.

You argue that roamers have always adapted, and you're right. But there's a stark difference between adapting to thrive and being forced to change due to repeated nerfs and arbitrary alterations. Forcing players into larger groups by diminishing solo capabilities strips away the freedom and individuality that many roamers cherish. It transforms a diverse and vibrant playstyle into a monotonous, one-size-fits-all approach.

The current state of group-based ganking is not a natural evolution; it is a forced adaptation due to the imposed changes by Anet. Roaming, as it was known, is indeed dead, not because players wanted it this way, but because the game's design changes left them no choice. Balance changes should enhance diversity in playstyles, not pigeonhole everyone into the same mold.

You suggest that I should take the initiative to rally friends and create a havoc guild. While forming groups and communities is important, it's naive to think that underlying issues will be resolved by simply adapting to an increasingly constrained environment. The problem is not a lack of initiative; it’s the systematic erosion of the server culture that once made this game so engaging. Constant, unnecessary tinkering with core mechanics disrupts established communities and forces players to repeatedly start from scratch.

Pointing fingers and claiming it's up to the players to maintain their bonds ignores the reality that the foundation of these bonds has been undermined. Your argument conveniently overlooks the detrimental impact of Anet’s decisions, placing the blame on the players instead.

So, instead of dismissing the concerns of those who have invested years into building and nurturing these communities, perhaps it’s time to recognize the value of what has been lost and advocate for changes that restore and preserve the rich tapestry of server culture and individual playstyles.

59 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Server pride myself so I get where you are coming from. Others will not depending on a score of reasons on why they were less server orientated. Different players will see it differently.  I play various scales of play, including roaming. There is still a lot of action out there for roamers. There are new peeps that will need a hand in a fight. It sucks not being able to back up familiar faces but there are options. Right now I am on vacation personally in WvW so seeing the sights. And seeing even more faces I didn't see during linking so that's interesting on it's own. But if you want to get back to that server feeling versus float on the wind, then I would say find a community guild and link up with like minded players. They won't be rolling back the WR so its up to each of the server pride side players to float or find new homes. Till you find one, good hunting! And might catch you on the crossroads for a dance off. 

Thanks for your perspective. I understand where you're coming from, and it's clear that different players have different experiences and priorities in WvW. Server pride is something that resonates deeply with many of us who have invested years into building and maintaining our communities.

While it's true that there's still action out there for roamers, the essence of what made roaming special has been eroded. The thrill of backing up familiar faces, the spontaneous teamwork, and the organic community bonds are what made roaming more than just a playstyle—it was a way of life in the game. These elements have been undermined by the changes, making it challenging to maintain that same level of connection and excitement.

Your suggestion to find a community guild and link up with like-minded players is valid, but it misses the larger issue. The forced fragmentation of server communities and the dilution of server identity are not things that can be easily patched up by joining a new guild. The unique server cultures that developed over the years were organic, built on shared experiences and mutual support. They can't simply be replicated or replaced by a new grouping.

Vacationing in WvW and exploring new faces can be interesting, but for those of us who cherish server pride, it's not just about meeting new people—it's about preserving the legacy and spirit of our servers. The "float on the wind" approach might work for some, but it feels like a loss for those who valued the deeper connections and history within their original communities.

The WR rollback might not be happening, but that doesn't mean we should accept the dissolution of what made our servers unique. It's up to players who care about server pride to voice their concerns and advocate for changes that respect and preserve our server identities. Until then, we continue to adapt and make the best of the situation, but let's not lose sight of what we're fighting for.

Good hunting to you too, and maybe we'll cross paths for a dance-off. But remember, it's not just about the dance; it's about the community that makes it meaningful.

[Cuks.8241]

1 hour ago, EstaticFear.7692 said:

So, instead of dismissing the concerns of those who have invested years into building and nurturing these communities, perhaps it’s time to recognize the value of what has been lost and advocate for changes that restore and preserve the rich tapestry of server culture and individual playstyles.

Those that were actualy invested in building and nurturing server communities are now most likely still doing so in form of an alliance guild. Join them and you will have up to 500 guildies to play with. That is not a small number also because most of them are probably quite active in wvw.

For me its actually a fun prospect to meet new players and guilds on our side  each cycle beyond the 350ish and growing from the alliance that will more or less remain there.

The only complaint I do understand is from players that were active in multiple guilds and now have to make a choice with which to play with.

But I just dont buy into the I've been active in the server community but puf now everyone is gone. We knew what will happen for over a year. Any at least somewhat active community member is still part of it only in different form. And it will never be to late to join. 

Edited June 27 by Cuks.8241

[Voegelin.5642]

I've had some good roamer fights in the new system.  More than in the old, frankly, since I returned to the game a few months ago. I had more fun in zergs 7 years ago but that may have just been the guild/server.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

5 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

The only complaint I do understand is from players that were active in multiple guilds and now have to make a choice with which to play with.

But I just dont buy into the I've been active in the server community but puf now everyone is gone. We knew what will happen for over a year. Any at least somewhat active community member is still part of it only in different form. And it will never be to late to join. 

How does knowing it's coming for a year change things? The people I used to play with are now scattered between three different guilds (that I am a member of), a community guild (which is missing most of the old server members because most have selected other guilds) and whichever teams the solos have ended up on. There is nothing I can do about that but try to pick the least bad option.

That said, I think there is still potential if team balancing can produce good matchups. Not very impressed so far but it is something they could improve.

Edited June 28 by Mistwraithe.3106

[Cuks.8241]

3 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

How does knowing it's coming for a year change things? The people I used to play with are now scattered between three different guilds (that I am a member of), a community guild (which is missing most of the old server members because most have selected other guilds) and whichever teams the solos have ended up on. There is nothing I can do about that but try to pick the least bad option.

That said, I think there is still potential if team balancing can produce good matchups. Not very impressed so far but it is something they could improve.

Like I said, I understand players like you that were active in several guilds and now had to make a choice.

But many posters here do not mention that at all. Its more like "I have been randomly distributed because I didnt bother to join any community". And knowing well in advance helps in this case.

[Chaba.5410]

11 hours ago, EstaticFear.7692 said:

The current state of group-based ganking is not a natural evolution; it is a forced adaptation due to the imposed changes by Anet.

I don't buy that because my personal experience from years ago, well before server links, is that that aspect to roaming has remained rather constant. Group-based gankers have always been around. I participated in it myself. Not something I spent a lot of time doing, but it was done back then too.

Edited June 28 by Chaba.5410

[Santo.2419]

It's affected me as a roamer in that I don't feel any bond or rivalry to stay logged in as much since the change. Overall it may be better for balance, but this is just a behavioral change I've noticed for myself as primarily 90% a roamer.

 

[Dawdler.8521]

On 6/26/2024 at 11:57 PM, EstaticFear.7692 said:

These changes are only pleasing to those who play with a high-population community and log in from one raid to another.

Coincidentally, a majority that dislike the changes seem to be those who used to play on high population worlds. Do not take that as me making any wild claim or anything, it's in the poll on the forums where those people voted like that.

I would say makes you think, but no not really. I mean we know what's going on. It's just harder to get carried by that high population community.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Coincidentally, a majority that dislike the changes seem to be those who used to play on high population worlds. Do not take that as me making any wild claim or anything, it's in the poll on the forums where those people voted like that.

I would say makes you think, but no not really. I mean we know what's going on. It's just harder to get carried by that high population community.

You are definitely partly correct. On my old server there were good numbers of players at the time zone I play. We didn’t always win but we were usually able to be competitive. Now I log in and we are lucky if we can get any response at all on team chat to try to defend a T2 HBL keep from a small group of roamers. It’s jarring coming from a community that talked and worked together. 

So, yeah, some of the complaints are coming from people who were in a community which was enjoyable to play with. Whereas some of the happy people are coming from servers they regard as terrible so WR is a breath of fresh air.

Both viewpoints are valid.

[neven.7528]

Its unfortunate to say, but some server communities needed to be put down.  The culture some claim was still there was simply just nostalgia with no substance.  Seen many groups move to servers that other guilds moved on from, hoping to recruit, hoping to rebuild a stable environment because their homes were destroyed by some of the nomadic large guilds who came and went, but all they can find is randoms who would rather afk than actively play.  There were just too many of these dead links, or in some cases dead hosts.  I've played on 6 different NA servers and for the ones that still had a semblance of community, it consisted of both the new and old guilds coordinating together for resets and not much else.  The roamers, and random pugs rarely participated in the actual community aside from team chat clutter. 
I've managed to find two different communities to play with using 2 accounts.  Both of which chose to go solo and let the algorithm do its job vs overstack.  The first is who i've mained with for like 10 years,  and the second is group i've played with for the 5-6 years with my second account whenever they werent on the same server.   The server the first guild was on had its community implode 3 times, so there wasnt much of a home aside from the guild.

[Mabi black.1824]

14 hours ago, EstaticFear.7692 said:

You claim that the destruction of server culture, bonds, and unity has nothing to do with roaming. However, you're missing the deep connection between these elements. Roaming is not just about wandering around; it's about the spontaneous, organic interactions that occur when players are part of a cohesive server community. These interactions strengthen bonds and create a sense of belonging. When the fundamental structure of server communities is disrupted, it naturally affects roaming as well.

This naturally affects roaming and all other ways to participate in the game. I've written many times that factions, belonging, and feeling part of a team has made this mode unique for so many players. I have written many times that I consider all this as something ''valuable'' especially from the point of view of participation/motivation.

Move all this to what will be the only reference after June 14th, the guild, I might even consider it, I could actually get carried away and involved when the design of WVW will put the guild at the center and not the server (so please complete the work undertaken), and when they will give way to compare equally (automatic multiplier) all the guilds with each other.

[Gorani.7205]

I would like to replace the term "roaming" in the OP's initial observation with "player agency", because I think that's what is on constant decline and what OP is kind of missing.

The ways the individual player can impact anything in WvW have been reduced and diminished the past years.  The classic "roamer type" needs a network of fellow players to get information, for ad hoc targets to attack or defend, switch tactics etc. That middle ground, where "game intelligence" and "experience" is valuable, is not what is encouraged by ANet's patches, updates and balance decisions. The large number blob and the individual duelling OP profession are where ANet has shifted the focus to. Unless you are on that bandwagon, your "game experience" drops off quickly. To continue to be happy with the "middle ground" is now only possible when you have joined a big "alliance guild" from your former "named server" (e.g. AG in my case). If you missed that chance, you will have lost all your social contacts in WvW (which are still there in PvE, due to mega servers and being able to change maps).

[Dawdler.8521]

4 minutes ago, Gorani.7205 said:

I would like to replace the term "roaming" in the OP's initial observation with "player agency", because I think that's what is on constant decline and what OP is kind of missing.

I see it as initiative. If you see 3 dots on the map, the instinct should be to intercept them before they even get to the objective they are aiming for, not run inside the objective and hope they come.

But no, most have the initiative of a bent cheese grater.

[Chaba.5410]

5 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Coincidentally, a majority that dislike the changes seem to be those who used to play on high population worlds. Do not take that as me making any wild claim or anything, it's in the poll on the forums where those people voted like that.

I would say makes you think, but no not really. I mean we know what's going on. It's just harder to get carried by that high population community.

You don't even need that poll to make that claim. The guy wrote himself that the changes are pleasing to those on high population teams. So the logic follows...

[Cael.3960]

An unpopular opinion, but it seems very obvious to me that if these roamers/defenders formed an alliance among themselves they'd have no problems finding content on a regular basis. Generally these are the most active players in the game mode, frequently playing every day for several hours at a time. More to the point their interest in this particular style of play encourages off-hours coverage by most individual players so the odds that they'll be outnumbered in any borderland is significantly less than alliances which favor zergs in prime-time coverage alone. 

In other words, the only thing holding yourself back from having a t1 dominant community with 100% coverage at all times is an irrational resistance toward any kind of large-scale organization no matter how shallow the obligations might be. The very fact that you don't have to rep an umbrella guild or even be friends with any of the 499 other members of your allied roaming community--just click the guild join and set it as your WvW guild and then ignore the tab from that moment forward--makes me think that the real issue here isn't the 'loss of server identity' but a recognition that camping a tiered objective is harder and/or more tedious when some other group isn't doing all the work for you. 

[Gorem.8104]

I quit this game awhile ago when they nerfed roamers the first time by basically removing rewards from repairing walls and sieging and various other anti-roamer/recon player plays only to come back and see its only gotten worse? I am actually amazed that they have made zerging even more the only way to play this mode. I used to defend and scout places for my server all the time, holding back the tide and interrupting captures long enough for people to arrive and clear, and then that entire way of playing was removed when preventing the tide stopped giving rewards entirely. (I really do want to come back to GW2 one day..) 

Now I hear they making even repairing destroyed walls only reappear much later on repair, so  you can't even yolo it and cut people off anymore. Just like changing the outnumbered buff to be much worse then it was because we were not supposed to be outnumbered anymore due to "alliances fixing this" when that never happened. 

Everything I read about wvw looks like they have only made it worse over the past 3-4 years since deciding to change it over to alliances that never came. 

From the sounds of it, the best way to play wvw now is to just have everyone ignore everyone else, no one defend, and everyone just boon blob from objective to objective from map to map and just make sure to never do any actual pvp as much as possible. 

[Farohna.6247]

As a roamer, I've been having a lot of fun with not only behind the lines while everyone else is in a zerg, but also running along with other roamers.

I've been meeting different players, more small roaming groups, and more open tags and it's been quite welcome.  While this has more to do with the previous server I was on, it's nice to see less stagnation.  

My suggestion would be to adapt, flex a little.  Run along with a zerg occasionally, but you can still run along happily being a nuisance 😄

[Ronin.4501]

On 6/27/2024 at 4:07 PM, EstaticFear.7692 said:

You claim that the destruction of server culture, bonds, and unity has nothing to do with roaming. However, you're missing the deep connection between these elements. Roaming is not just about wandering around; it's about the spontaneous, organic interactions that occur when players are part of a cohesive server community. These interactions strengthen bonds and create a sense of belonging. When the fundamental structure of server communities is disrupted, it naturally affects roaming as well.

Almost every server formed a community guild in preparation for the WR betas. Why didn't you join that community guild if wanted to remain a part of that community? You could have joined that alliance guild, followed them to whatever server/shard they went to, and then continued to roam while still interacting with all the people from your old community. Instead you chose to do nothing just as so many others here did, and you reap what you sow.

Furthermore, not every server had that cohesive, strong community that yours did, which is why Anet moved on from servers to WR. The players complaining the most seem to be from the servers that were the most stacked. But that accounted for maybe 25% of the servers, whilst the rest were basically hot garbage at this point. Anet had to do something that appealed to ALL the players, not just the ones on the stacked servers.

[Morvran.8265]

13 minutes ago, Ronin.4501 said:

Almost every server formed a community guild in preparation for the WR betas. Why didn't you join that community guild if wanted to remain a part of that community? You could have joined that alliance guild, followed them to whatever server/shard they went to, and then continued to roam while still interacting with all the people from your old community. Instead you chose to do nothing just as so many others here did, and you reap what you sow.

Furthermore, not every server had that cohesive, strong community that yours did, which is why Anet moved on from servers to WR. The players complaining the most seem to be from the servers that were the most stacked. But that accounted for maybe 25% of the servers, whilst the rest were basically hot garbage at this point. Anet had to do something that appealed to ALL the players, not just the ones on the stacked servers.

People like you act like it's possible and realistic to cram every single person on a server into an alliance.

In practice you won't even be able to keep 10% together, and this number will only get lower as time goes on. This update killed the server communities.

You say Anet did this to appeal to "all the players" but what they really did was make WvW worse for those who enjoyed it while not necessarily improving it for those who didn't.

[Ronin.4501]

1 minute ago, Morvran.8265 said:

People like you act like it's possible and realistic to cram every single person on a server into an alliance.

In practice you won't even be able to keep 10% together, and this number will only get lower as time goes on. This update killed the server communities.

You say Anet did this to appeal to "all the players" but what they really did was make WvW worse for those who enjoyed it while not necessarily improving it for those who didn't.

But what you're not acknowledging is that most servers nowadays were crap. I've been on 3 different servers; one for 10 years, then another for 2 years, and then finally one for the past 6 months until WR came along. I watched as the first two servers dried up and died because guilds constantly came and went, always hoping for a better community and better content somewhere else.  The old system was fine for the 2-3 servers that were rocking and rolling over everyone they came up against, but that wasn't the case for most of the servers. Players have been BEGGING Anet for a change for years, and now that we finally get one, all anyone wants to do is complain.

[Chaba.5410]

The other thing that isn't being acknowledged is players in practice don't really know everyone on their server. Even in these 500 man alliance guilds, you know everyone? Name 500 players from your servers from memory.

Edited June 29 by Chaba.5410