Janthir Wilds Spear Beta Event Feedback: Revenant

[Angesombre.4630]

In my opinion, the devs don't know how to balance it, they've lost their way on this class due to a lack of skill on the revenant or a desire to really make it viable. If you look at firebrand, it's the equivalent of vindicator, with buffs, heal and dps. Except that vindicator doesn't have such buffs. Apres peut être je me trompe l'aillant pas beaucoup jouer.
Since the November 2023 update, vindicator has been used less and less in instanced PvE content (Raid, fractal or strike).

Sorry, I digressed. But power or alté builds are better without the spear than with it.

Edited Saturday at 05:46 AM by Angesombre.4630

[Buran.3796]

10 hours ago, GrayListen.3587 said:

- and I've enjoyed several times dashing around placing them + pulling into them thereafter.  I like having more mid range non-projectile attacks, the extra pull is fun to chain with something like Call to Anguish,

  ...Instead of just using axe #5 or short bow #5 to cast a cc which doesn't have to pulse 3 times to deliver theeffect, you mean?

 

[Fueki.4753]

To me, this weapon feels too slow and clunky to enjoy using.

Abyssal Raze feels bad to use. Making it enemy-targetted might help out a bit with that, but it'd still be really slow to use.

Likewise, Abyssal Blot being enemy-targetted would make it feel better to me, albeit too still slow.

Abyssal Blitz should have more range. With 600 or 750 range, it could also drop one or two more mines.

Both Abyssal Strike and Abyssal Force are too slow as well.

I don't like the Crushing Abyss Gimmick as it is right now. Instead of Abyssal Raze applying the stacks and other abilities reducing the cooldown of Abyssal Raze, I'd prefer if the other abilities applied the stacks. Combined with making the abilities faster, I think this would feel more fluid and fun to play with.

[quake.9023]

me and a friend got so bored trying this one. 

no1 is too slow and too low dmg for all that time. the 600 range on most of them is just......idk what to do. the aoe circle seems too small. no mobility.....no abilty to impact the situation. 

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

8 hours ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

In my opinion, the devs don't know how to balance it, they've lost their way on this class due to a lack of skill on the revenant or a desire to really make it viable. If you look at firebrand, it's the equivalent of vindicator, with buffs, heal and dps. Except that vindicator doesn't have such buffs. Apres peut être je me trompe l'aillant pas beaucoup jouer.
Since the November 2023 update, vindicator has been used less and less in instanced PvE content (Raid, fractal or strike).

Sorry, I digressed. But power or alté builds are better without the spear than with it.

While your view is valid the reason they haven't changed how Vindicator works is basically obvious across the board; they have this idea of two support specs and one all out DPS spec. Vindicator goes in the face of that since currently renegade is considered a "support" spec because of alacrity in it and the devs aren't willing to give vindicator a support because it would break that mold they forced themselves into.

The simplest solution, of course, would be to move alac to vindicator and make renegade a pure DPS spec now, especially now after they made being a heal support renegade practically impossible (when it wasn't good to begin with). I doubt many would not be in line with that view of things but so far ANet seems to be against any concept of vindicator being a heal support, which would actually give revs a decent heal support spec on a similar level of other heal specs, since currently herald chugs as a heal support.

And revenant isn't a highly played class, you don't see a lot of vindicators because other classes have been getting new tools that essentially gives them a much easier time. ANet hasn't even done anything with vindcator for most of the expansion outside nerfing greatsword and taking away their only support ability.

Edited Saturday at 02:15 PM by Ravenwulfe.5360

[Aalter.2950]

This weapon is really cool! I love the design and the feel of it.

Skills 1-3 are solid and really cool. They work well with the existing Condition synergies available to Revenant, though the Chill does sort of force the wielder to take the Abyssal Chill trait. The damage and utility is nice and they feed into the Crushing Abyss mechanic.

Abyssal Blot is strong for PvE, but to be usable in PvP it needs some help. I'd recommend moving the Chill to the first tick instead of the same tick with the Pull, as that will help land the pull or at least have value when the enemy avoids the final tick. This would also allow it to be used to apply Torment if Abyssal Chill is taken so it can deal a non-negligible amount of damage for condition-based builds in PvP.

Abyssal Raze is a bit disappointing, as the damage is exceptionally low for how slow the cast time/windup time is on the skill. For PvP, it's almost impossible to land this on anyone and even at maximum Crushing Abyss charges, it doesn't do that much more than Abyssal Force. If the cast time or windup are going to stay the same, the damage should be increased significantly. If the damage stays at it is, the cast time should be more like 3/4s and it should detonate instantly.

I like that the weapon has a hybrid range/melee playstyle with less dmg but more defensive utility compared to Shortbow, so it feels like a distinct weapon with pros and cons compared to the other options. Well done again ANet!

[Merion.2350]

Skill 1 : a bit slow - could use a bit more condi when in meele to encourage a trade between range safety and close combat

Skill 2: slow effect, high cast time - could use both a speedup for effect and cast time..., maybe give it an interaction with the 4 skill that it create mines as well for a cool combo

Skill 3: so far the best skill on spear - cd is a bit high..

Skill 4: powerful, but everything just walks out of it until it cc's - maybe put the pull more front heavy to have a small version of mallyx's call to anguish (combos super fun with skill 3 - so more options for more mines to pull them in would be appreciated)
Skill 5: cast time way too high.. first stack has no condi at all - the ramp up is way to difficult to maintain esp since you dont hit anything (as the cast time is to high) maybe let it ramp condi and at full stack leave mines where it explodes (and make it faster ofc)

[lex de gouw.6214]

First of all I have to say I really like what you guys did with almost every spear set on the classes. 

I do however noticed I wasn't as satisfied as I was hoping with revenant spear. Here is my feedback on it:

Overall:

• I like the idea of alternating skill to build up a powerfull 5 skill
• The damage takes a long time to build up and when you weapon swap you have to do it again.

5 skill:

• It takes too long to build up to 5 stacks.
• It also feels a bit undertuned at the moment but this could be adjusted with numbers I think, using it 5 times where at the start it doesnt give torment at all and at the end it only giving 5 stacks of torment doesn feel worth it for a skill which is such a centerpiece (something like shortbow 3 does about the same damage as 5 stack spear 5, while not having to build up and being a much faster skill). 

Suggestion: Perhaps a change could be to lower the max stacks to 3, increase torment on each stack to 2 or 3 and lower the casting time.

2 skill:

• pretty cool skill

Suggestion: Maybe a bit more torment and less cooldown for more 2 and 5 weaving.

3 skill: 

• Unfortunate that is has a fixed amount of movement
• The amount of orbs generated seems to be inconsistent.
• Only seems worth using for evasion since it doesnt really deal damage (no condi damage unless traited). 

Suggestion: More consistent amount of orbs, based on distance traveled. Torment stack on detonated orbs. Higher cdr for skill 5. Allowing you to choose how far you want to travel so you dont launch of a cliff.

4 skill:

• Cool skill, nice animation.
• Maybe pulse chill for some nice combo with the chill to torment trait.
• Low cdr for skill 5

Suggestion: Pulsing chill and pusling cdr

Auto attack:

• I like that it has a ranged and melee variant.
• Unfortunate that there is no melee skill chain.

Suggestion: Perhaps a melee 3 attack chain would be nice where you get increasingly more skill 5 cdr with each strike. 

 

Thanks for the spear implementations and keep up the good work, hopefully my feedback is usefull!

I am looking forward to the final implementations!

 

[Zom.2476]

I like the concept behind the spear on Revenant, however there are a few improvements that could make the spear more user-friendly. The attack speed of the spear feels too slow and only feels right when under the effect of quickness. Making the auto attack 1/2 attack speed rather than 3/4, along with reducing the cast times of Abyssal Force, Abyssal Blot and Abyssal Raze, would likely make the weapon feel better to use. The damage numbers are on the low side in my tests and could use some adjustments. The range is also too short and needs to be at least 900 for it to feel comfortable to use. Having additional conditions aside from torment would also be beneficial due to condition cleanse. Adding some stacks of burning to Abyssal Blot or Abyssal Raze would provide some coverage and pair well with the smoky red/black effects. Possibly adding some poison, bleeding, blind or weakness to the skills would help with the coverage issue as well. At the moment, the shortbow has a longer range, greater coverage, and more damage than the spear, so the spear needs something to make it worthwhile to use. I feel that Abyssal Raze should have its AoE radius extended to the size of Abyssal Blot so it's easier to hit enemies at a distance. Crushing Abyss should also refresh when another stack is gained as it can be tricky to maintain stacks at times. I'd prefer if Abyssal Blitz simply dashed forward in the direction you're facing so it would be easier to use in action. I did like the concept of using your abilities to recharge the big ability, but it feels like the animation of Abyssal Raze is underwhelming compared to Abyssal Blot. Overall, I feel like the concept and mechanics are fun, but some changes are necessary for it to feel properly impactful.

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Aalter.2950 said:

This weapon is really cool! I love the design and the feel of it.

Skills 1-3 are solid and really cool. They work well with the existing Condition synergies available to Revenant, though the Chill does sort of force the wielder to take the Abyssal Chill trait. The damage and utility is nice and they feed into the Crushing Abyss mechanic.

Abyssal Blot is strong for PvE, but to be usable in PvP it needs some help. I'd recommend moving the Chill to the first tick instead of the same tick with the Pull, as that will help land the pull or at least have value when the enemy avoids the final tick. This would also allow it to be used to apply Torment if Abyssal Chill is taken so it can deal a non-negligible amount of damage for condition-based builds in PvP.

Abyssal Raze is a bit disappointing, as the damage is exceptionally low for how slow the cast time/windup time is on the skill. For PvP, it's almost impossible to land this on anyone and even at maximum Crushing Abyss charges, it doesn't do that much more than Abyssal Force. If the cast time or windup are going to stay the same, the damage should be increased significantly. If the damage stays at it is, the cast time should be more like 3/4s and it should detonate instantly.

I like that the weapon has a hybrid range/melee playstyle with less dmg but more defensive utility compared to Shortbow, so it feels like a distinct weapon with pros and cons compared to the other options. Well done again ANet!

How much did anet pay you?

[Silesium.5623]

3 hours ago, Aalter.2950 said:

This weapon is really cool! I love the design and the feel of it.

Skills 1-3 are solid and really cool. They work well with the existing Condition synergies available to Revenant, though the Chill does sort of force the wielder to take the Abyssal Chill trait. The damage and utility is nice and they feed into the Crushing Abyss mechanic.

Abyssal Blot is strong for PvE, but to be usable in PvP it needs some help. I'd recommend moving the Chill to the first tick instead of the same tick with the Pull, as that will help land the pull or at least have value when the enemy avoids the final tick. This would also allow it to be used to apply Torment if Abyssal Chill is taken so it can deal a non-negligible amount of damage for condition-based builds in PvP.

Abyssal Raze is a bit disappointing, as the damage is exceptionally low for how slow the cast time/windup time is on the skill. For PvP, it's almost impossible to land this on anyone and even at maximum Crushing Abyss charges, it doesn't do that much more than Abyssal Force. If the cast time or windup are going to stay the same, the damage should be increased significantly. If the damage stays at it is, the cast time should be more like 3/4s and it should detonate instantly.

I like that the weapon has a hybrid range/melee playstyle with less dmg but more defensive utility compared to Shortbow, so it feels like a distinct weapon with pros and cons compared to the other options. Well done again ANet!

Don't know if u troll or you just doing basic thing in this game like killing trash mobs / map hearts :3 

[Silesium.5623]

As we get close to next expension seams like some classeas idea was rashed and some were more planed look like rev get short stick again like with sceptor

[Huo.4865]

I believe I'm ready to give my opinion on this weapon in it's current state. They seem to be going for a "slow but hard hitting" weapon idea for this, which doesn't have to be a bad thing, but the weapon mechanic heavily goes against this idea, and the animations aren't interesting enough to support it being this slow either. 

The auto attack is a little weird. It doesn't have a whole auto-attack chain for the melee version like Ranger spear does, the ranged throw is exactly the same as the melee hit except it's a projectile. If the foe doesn't have projectile denial, it would be better for this skill to just have the throw option as it's slow enough that if you start swinging at a foe in melee range and they move out of melee range, you'll whiff your attack.

The 2 skill and 4 skill, Abyssal Force and Abyssal Blot respectively, are mostly fine, just a bit slow.

The 3 skill, Abyssal Blitz, I really like in competitive modes. It seems pretty useless in PvE, but when fighting another player, having a short evade where I can dash through enemies and leave behind mines. This is the only skill that was fast enough that I could actually hit with more than it was dodged or sidestepped. Why does it spawn a seemingly random amount of mines though? Make it dash a little bit further and consistently spawn 5 mines. 

The 5 skill, Abyssal Raze, is what the kit is built around, and it's so slow. Even when you have your target chilled, they can just easily walk out of the AoE before it hits. In PvE you can stack up the buff somewhat easily but it doesn't feel rewarding enough when you do, and even then it feels really slow even with quickness. In competitive modes, landing this skill on a player that isn't immobilized or hard cc'ed is very tricky to do even once, let alone 5 times. 

For the weapon overall, in PvE the energy costs are too high and the damage is too low. It's power scaling is too low to be good with Vindicator, it's energy cost too high to be usable on Herald, and while it did okay on condi Renegade and condi alac Renegade when using the charged mists trait, it still did quite a bit worse than the existing condi weapons. Even camping shortbow does more damage than a rotation that properly weapon swaps in and out of spear. This is just numbers tuning though and is the easiest to fix before release. However, even if the raw damage numbers are increased, it ramps up damage way too slowly that versus bosses with phases like Vale Guardian, by the time you've got 5 stacks of Crushing Abyss the boss goes invulnerable and the torment you've racked up goes to waste. I've heard a lot of other feedback saying that the skills felt normal speed with quickness, and while I do agree that the weapon is too slow without quickness, with quickness it feels a bit faster than I would expect normal speed to be, but definitely slower than what the quickness should feel like. 

In PvP, on top of the skills being hard to land, the meta is so bursty that you really only can get 2 or maybe 3 casts of Abyssal Raze off before you need to swap into a more defensive weapon set as you're getting pressured hard. The fairly short range on the skills mean that you can't even cast from a safe distance. The weapon is also light on condition variety so your torment is often getting cleansed before it can really do anything. I can't think of a more do-nothing weapon on any class in PvP.

In large-scale WvW, the Revenant spear is pretty bad too. The range is too short to poke an enemy blob with, and it's not immediately impactful enough when engaging with the enemy for it to be useful at all. Abyssal Blot is kinda nice for area denial, but it's not strong enough to justify running this weapon.

WvW roaming and 1v1s is where I found the most success with this weapon. With Celestial Herald, I was tanky enough to survive while I charged Abyssal Raze by hitting pets, clones, or guards that just happened to be there, and then was able to follow up a cc with a charged up Abyssal Raze. I surprisingly was able to win most duels, but shortbow would have easily done the same job but better and easier, and I felt useless in any fight larger than a 1v1. The weapon cleared camps very well, though.

In conclusion the weapon is way to slow for it's skill's design, and other than it's little dash, there's no reason to use this over shortbow in any scenario. Revenant already has a pretty solid weapon selection that I can understand designing a new weapon for the class that has it's own identity can be difficult, but this is not it. It seems a lot of people wanted spear to be a power weapon they could use on Vindicator, and I guess I'm not opposed to that. There's so much more that needs to be worked on for this weapon, I wouldn't be opposed to it getting a complete redesign.

Edited Saturday at 07:18 PM by Huo.4865

[bruakumfd.4817]

I initially found it tricky to learn which skills to press. Reading the descriptions helped, though, The bigger issue is the damage didn't seem to improve even when I switched from Celestial to Marauder's. 

[Buran.3796]

Tried spears in Warrior, Guardian, Ranger, Thief, Engineer, Mesmer. Tomorrow will try Necro and Ele. Of the "tested", my spear tier list:

Mesmer > Ranger >>>  Guardian/Thief> Engineer> Warrior> Revenant

   Mesmer has both the coolest looking animations/fx and the weapon that seems more usable at PvE/PvP/WvW. Ranger one is also fantastic albeit they should tune the color of the fx to a more yellowish green to distinct themselves from Necros. Most of the rest seems to have good/decent animations and fx but felt weak compared to what those professions already have. Warrior and Revenant felt the least usable; don't see a single game mode to use them.

  Also I would ask again: did anyone test how much torment were able to stack in a burst?

  

[Buran.3796]

1 hour ago, Huo.4865 said:

The weapon cleared camps very well, though.

In conclusion the weapon is way to slow for it's skill's design, and other than it's little dash, there's no reason to use this over shortbow in any scenario. Revenant already has a pretty solid weapon selection that I can understand designing a new weapon for the class that has it's own identity can be difficult, but this is not it.

   Standing still pulsing Embrace the Darkness actually clears camps very well; anything with condi does it, also (Scorchrazor + Spiritcrush as another example). The weapon can be defined as a "second condition mele set, which happens to be worse than short bow at any range".  

[Nokaon.4603]

As a vindi main with over 5k hours on it, i want to love spear but i really can't

the only skill thats remotely good on it at its current state is spear 3 and i actually love that, i also think its completely fine with its current range, at least in my mind i think of it as a close ranged sevenshot (though i wouldn't mind the range being increased as some suggested, but i for one am completely fine with it as is)

abyssal needing 5 stacks is absolutely insane outside of a zerg scenario and borderline impossible to pull off in a 1v1 unless the opponent has a pet, even then its ''impossible'' because nobody is gonna let you stack 5 stacks with a slow casting speed like that, you're lucky to get 2 stacks during a fight vs cele and thats being generous

i dont see myself using spear 2 its slow and with the 600 range i'd even say its useless, a temp fix would be to allow us to use the skill with our backs turned, but having to use it within 600 range is just asking to be killed

I've placed spear 4 in the middle of people and they either got enough time to simply walk out of it, or they just randomly dodge out of it, it does give dark aura though which is amazing for condi, but yeah if you're power this will also be a useless skill

 

TLDR: Spear 3 is the only skill remotely useful and the rest needs a rework with faster casting speed, Shortbow is vastly superior in every way so is Hammer

Edited Saturday at 11:23 PM by Nokaon.4603

[Archwizard.1603]

I did notice a bug that the red effect when maxed Abyssal Raze stayed on my character when weapon switched after and mounted then continued to do so out of combat.

[Buran.3796]

   More test done: got up to 44 stacks of torment in PvE mixing Mallyx, mace, axe and the spear; I think I got 49-52 replacing it with the short bow.  Takes me 23" more to kill the Mordrem Vinetooth champion compared to the same build with sb. Tried it also in WvW but the ttk vs npcs was lagging compared to the alternatives.

   Did half dozen of matches in PvP; most of them with spear + mace & axe, some with spear + short bow. Short bow worked better since provides pressure at range, but known what worked even better: not spear at all.

   I think the spear is pointless. Has lower dps, lower condi coverage and lower stacks than our present condi weapons; the cc is worse and harder to land than Scorchrazor or Temporal Rift, the gap closer is worse than Deathstrike or Phantom Onslaught (and that is a difficult feat). Doesn't have any defense or any condition cleanses. I guess spear #3 & #4 can be used but, again, the alternatives are better. I think that spear #5 has a bad mechanical design (since skill X demanding skill Y and Z to be landed to do something instantly loses value in competitive environments since people won't stay in place eating your slow, boring attacks..

   I don't understand how Anet could think this weapon would have any use. Is pointless-

[Shagie.7612]

1 hour ago, Nokaon.4603 said:

a temp fix would be to allow us to use the skill with our backs turned

It has no facing requirements already.
In fact, you don't even need to face them to begin the attack on 1, unlike shortbow where it requires initial facing. You can throw all 5 skills while running away the entire time.

It's like the only positive thing about the weapon lol

[SWLDguitar.5746]

4 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

Tried spears in Warrior, Guardian, Ranger, Thief, Engineer, Mesmer. Tomorrow will try Necro and Ele. Of the "tested", my spear tier list:

Mesmer > Ranger >>>  Guardian/Thief> Engineer> Warrior> Revenant

   Mesmer has both the coolest looking animations/fx and the weapon that seems more usable at PvE/PvP/WvW. Ranger one is also fantastic albeit they should tune the color of the fx to a more yellowish green to distinct themselves from Necros. Most of the rest seems to have good/decent animations and fx but felt weak compared to what those professions already have. Warrior and Revenant felt the least usable; don't see a single game mode to use them.

  Also I would ask again: did anyone test how much torment were able to stack in a burst?

  

Necro > Ranger > Ele > Mesmer > Thief > Engineer > Guardian > Warrior > Revenant.  

 

Necro spear feels sooooo good on Reaper, and the boon striping it has on it will make it a staple in all WvW content. 

Ranger felt great because spear is good with Soulbeast and Untamed.  The combos all felt good.

Ele is the winner of the animations, and if the top two weren't so good at their job this would be the best designed weapon.

Mesmer was good, but felt weird having to press 2 first to get 2 lancers. However, better than everything below it.

Thieves weapon design is AWESOME, i like the idea of flipping between two skills.  The skills just were boring to be higher on the list (i'm not a fan of thief in general).

Engineers spear looks like it should wreck everything in range, but it simply doesn't. May just be a tuning thing.

Guardians hybrid spear is what Revenant scepter should be.  Just goes to show Anet's azure prized child always gets the good stuff.  Only low on the list because of the fact it's not fun in anything solo and is 100% a group content weapon.

Warrior, seemed like a generic kit, nothing flashy, everything works, just boring to play when there's better weapons out there.

Revenant, is just awful.  Damage is pathetic, nothing makes sense to press, 5 skill doesn't do any damage as full power, full condi or cele.  Most of its damage comes from stances not the actual weapon - Demon stance elite, Alliance stance abilities, Herald Quickness, etc.  If you have quickness the weapon feels as it should, but doesn't fix it's actual issues. 

The only skill that is good, is the one i hated pre-beta the most, the 3 skill with the mines.  I think the ONLY change it needs, instead of chill, it should be immobilize so it could be used offensively or defensively.

Skill 2 functions, but should definitely be faster. 

Skill 4 is garbage, damage is so low, the aoe is so small that the pull is barely noticeable - considering Demon stance has a pull similar to it (and is better), i think it needs to be chucked.  Use the same animation however.  To me it looks A LOT like a revenant version of Ranger's Spike Trap and i think it should be similar - bleeds, a launch (or other cc) - difference being this can be set from range, lower CD, not a trap, etc. 

Skill 5 is horrible design.  Even if it did overpowered damage, it still would be bad design.  Too small of a radius, too little damage, too hard to get to 5 stacks, too little in condis, too hard to keep the buff up.  Trash it.  Compare it to greatsword 5, you press 1 button and the BIG damage happens.  Compare to Spear of Archemorus, press the button 1 time, get 5 torment.  Compare to Embrace the Darkness, press 1 time and get tons of Torment.  This skill you need to press it, numerous times and even if you get max stacks you won't see a big crit, you won't see high stacks of condis - you get energy starved and pitiful amounts of condis.  I honestly don't know what should take its place, i think anyone would be happy with a 15-20s CD that does what this is trying to do in 1 button press. 

[Nokaon.4603]

8 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

It has no facing requirements already.
In fact, you don't even need to face them to begin the attack on 1, unlike shortbow where it requires initial facing. You can throw all 5 skills while running away the entire time.

It's like the only positive thing about the weapon lol

i gotta test that, it didn't feel like it had that when i tested it.

edit, kitten it actually did work, ok i got 10% more hope for it out of 110%

Edited Sunday at 12:49 AM by Nokaon.4603

[Shadow Legend.1657]

3 easy changes that will vastly improve the spear:

1. faster cast times/animations
2. increase range to at least 900
3. decrease energy cost for skill 5

Faster cast times seems like the most unanimous sentiment Ive seen everyone mention about the spear, that ones pretty self explanitory. The range issue is very important to me, this weapon's directly competing with shortbow as a ranged 2h condi weapon, and it already feels like it does less damage, with less condition variety and less hard CC, it simply cannot also be shorter range or i'm just gonna use shortbow instead. And finally, skill 5 is designed to be constantly spammed, it needs a very low energy cost in order to fit in with herald and renegade builds that often use upkeep skills that constantly drain energy. I want to use spear with herald for its quickness because the cast times are so slow but them im hit with not having enough energy which doesnt feel great. Also the tooltip for skill 3 confused me, dunno why its split into 2 tooltips if its not a flip skill, not sure why it says explosion at the bottom of it if that doesnt interact with any revenant traits?

The main thing I like about the spear tho is it feels pretty fun to use, the concept of using skill 5 to build up the damage modifier and other spear abilities to lower the CD on skill 5 is cool and I was able to get into a nice flow with it which is very important. Also just want to mention I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE THE BETA SKILL ICONS HAVING SOME AMMOUNT OF IDENTITY THIS TIME, ITS A HUGE IMPROVEMENT TY! 
 

 

[Katary.7096]

I will try to keep this short. I don't like the spear as a revenant weapon. On a condition based build, the moment I switch from spear to shortbow or mace&axe I have more fun playing my character. The same is true for power builds and weapons like sword&sword, greatsword or hammer. A weapon that actively reduces my level of fun because I am using it does not sell me on the expansion. Perhaps it was the intention to make a weapon that introduces an entirely different feeling of playing revenant and I happen to fall outside of the target audience. If that is the case, you may stop reading here as the rest of the post will contain several pain points which should be fixed to make the spear a more enjoyable weapon in my opinion.

The range on basically all of the skills needs to be increased. During the preview livestream it was said that giving revenant spear a maximum range of 900 instead of 600 is already being considered. If 900 range is ultimately determined to be too much, then at least give it 750.
Furthermore the casttime for most of the skills should be reduced. As it stands the spear abilities feel sluggish to use. Balancing the damage output of the weapon should still be possible by adjusting power coefficients, condition stacks and condition duration.
The fact that this weapon applies no boons at all is somewhat typical for revenant weapons but that still holds it back.

On a positive note, I think the spear skills are pleasing to behold, at least in a solo play situation. In groups or the open world it will likely turn into a mess of visual effects, but that is hardly something new for Guild Wars 2.
I am happy to report that all of the spear skills correctly trigger the effect of Relic of the Thief. As this is not the case for sword #3, greatsword #3 and greatsword #4 I thought it was worth mentioning.

Spear Skill #1: This ability currently has only 1 tool tip, even though it has a ranged attack version as well as a 2 part chain for the melee range version. The traveling speed of the projectile should be increased. The ranged version of skill #1 should have at least a chance to be a projectile finisher. The casttime needs to be reduced slightly. On a condition build the auto attack produced virtually identical DPS between its melee and ranged version. On a power build the ranged version outperformed the melee one. If there is a difference in damage output than the melee version should be stronger than the ranged one. Also, the 2nd strike of the melee chain deals lower power damage than the first one. Normally the opposite is the case.

Spear Skill #2: The casttime needs to be reduced slightly. This skill deals less damage than skill #1 on a power build, why? Typically slot #2 skills are basic, low cooldown, high damage buttons. The animation shows the projectile hitting the target from above, coming in at a slight angle, however not from the direction from which the spear was thrown. I think this could be improved.

Spear Skill #3: Why does this ability not generate a static amount of mines? As opposed to the other skills on spear, this 1 feels fast enough. As a movement tool I would like to see more range on this skill, but when it comes to using it as a dodge I like that it doesn't travel that far, I remain undecided. For power builds this skill is a damage gain over skill #1, on condition builds it is a loss, therefore it can be saved to be used for its utility. I prefer the design for condition damage builds.

Spear Skill #4: The casttime needs to be reduced slightly. For power builds this skill is a damage gain over skill #1, on condition builds it is a loss, therefore it can be saved to be used for its utility. I prefer the design for condition damage builds. Please move the chill application from the final strike to the first.

Spear Skill #5: The central ability of the weapon, this 1 needs a lot of work. The casttime needs to be sped up significantly. Please remove the 1 second cooldown on this skill, it makes firing off all 3 ammo charges awkward. Since this skill is gated by the ammo system, the energy cost of this skill should be reduced, preferably to 1. The first time that this skill is used it applies no damaging condition, since the "Crushing Abyss" stacks are at 0. That is not exactly satisfying.
On the topic of "Crushing Abyss" stacks, at 5 stacks swapping weapons triggers spear skill #5 for free, correctly applying 5 stacks of torment, but the power damage component is using the base value, even though 5 stacks of "Crushing Abyss" should increase the power damage by 100%. In addition, the automatic version of skill #5 is cast centered on the revenant, which is mostly useless when using the spear for ranged combat.
The intensity of the visual effect on the character as "Crushing Abyss" stacks build up is a bit too strong for my taste.

[arazoth.7290]

4 hours ago, SWLDguitar.5746 said:

The 3 skill with the mines.  I think the ONLY change it needs, instead of chill, it should be immobilize so it could be used offensively or defensively.

Or they could make it a 600 range charge 3/4 duration evade, always 5 mines. And last but not least a 2nd ability after the charge (doesn't requires enemy hit).

The mines can be send to the targetted enemy in 900 range, they explode after they are sent bc they moved. (they need to move fast enough though to catch people up)

Because of that, it can reliable be used offensive or defensive