Janthir Wilds Spear Beta Event Feedback: Guardian

[Nivi.3401]

Two things about the skill effects:

• Spear 4 uses yellow circles with the exact same shape and animation as enemy attack telegraphs. Players I've talked to find similar skills (scourge's Sandstorm Shroud, specter's Mind Shock, and ele's Updraft) already in the game to be very confusing, and say they've often reflexively dodged out of their own skills. I avoid playing these at all for this reason (it's even harder for me to tell them apart since I'm colorblind). Please change guardian spear 5 (as well as the other mentioned skills, and revenant spear 5) to use a more visually distinct ground effect instead.
• Spear 5's ground effect, while not opaque like ele and mesmer's spear skills, does not currently have an Effect LOD (though that might just still be work in progress), and isn't hidden by Hide Ally Visual Effects (but admittedly I don't know if it's useful for it to be visible to others). In its current state, it adds to the visual clutter for other players, and it might be confusing when multiple players are using guardian's spear, since only your own (visually identical) symbol makes your skills Illuminated.

[SentriX.3209]

I wonder how many people use the Rifle on mesmer, you're catering to a low % of the playerbase. Honestly you should play with traits so that people get to pick if they want a support or dps weapon. As it stands now there's no reason to pick it for either. Also give me a trait to burn enemies that are blinded...thematically you should shine so bright as to blind and burn your enemies.

Imo water spear is way better.

 

Edited July 1 by SentriX.3209

[Xaylin.1860]

I tested all Spears in a rather casual PvE setting. So this is more of a first impression than a thorough assessment.

I did enjoy the weapon overall. I think it has the potential to be a good pick in certain scenarios for power or power-support hybrid builds. However, while the skills felt good, this was probably the weapon where I felt forced to weapon swap the most compared to all other classes. That's just not a great feeling for a weapon that is supposed to bounce of its skills and doesn't carry over too much when swapping out of it. The CDs aren't even to high when compared to other weapons. But being stuck in a non-chain AA is dissatisfying.

It might be beneficial to have some form of CD reduction on the AA at least for specific skills when hitting an enemy or healing allies.

[Zinnia.1842]

I encountered an issue with the Guardian spear during my beta test. As someone with smaller hands who primarily uses skills 1 through 3 for main attacks and 4/5 for support/defense, I found it inconvenient that skill #2 is a dash or movement skill. It would greatly improve gameplay flow if this skill were relocated to slot 3 or 4. Currently, I have to perform finger acrobatics to manage it, which disrupts the flow of gameplay.

 

Edited July 1 by Zinnia.1842

[Josif.2015]

Daybreaking Dash: no changes needed.
Helio Rush: the tooltip says that allies get more boons if a target is illuminated, but the only boon allies get is resolution. Maybe add regeneration and vigor or some other supportive boon.
Gleaming Disc: remove the short delay for the shock wave of light.
Solar Storm: make the next attack illuminated regardless if you use this skill within range of the shards.
Symbol of Luminance: no changes needed.

[Markus.6415]

On 7/1/2024 at 6:09 PM, Nivi.3401 said:

Spear 4 uses yellow circles with the exact same shape and animation as enemy attack telegraphs.

While the enemy attack telegraphs are orange, I see that i'ts quite easy to confuse those during combat. Is anything holding them back for using blue circles? Blue clearly tells you it's not gonna hurt you and it's also not green like the boss mechanics.

Edited July 3 by Markus.6415

[Wimpernschlag.1549]

I tested Spear mainly from the perspective of Supportguardian, especially HFB in PVE and PVP (a bit). First of all: I think this weapon can have a really nice spot in the Guardian toolkit and i think most skills have a nice idea, i like the overall style you are going for. Especially tying back to a magical version of the paragon and the yellow of Tom of courage on firebrand is really well done, it fits nicely in the sun theme of the lore background, I really love it! I still think there are some problems:

I often heard the following criticisms that I don’t need to expand any further:

-          - The Auto-attacks and helio rush should heal you. It feels super awkward in PVE, I don’t know if the concerns are for PVP and WVW but I think healing exclusively other players feels unfun to play

-         -  Helio Rush feels too slow and scales with quickness, that makes it a really weird skill right now, I think the speed with quickness would be a solid baseline speed that can’t be influenced by quickness.

-         -  Symbol of Luminance should offer everyone resistance in PVE, not just if they got no Resistance. It feels really punishing to miss out on that uptime because someone got 1 sec of resistance.

Helio Rush: While I think the skill is a cool idea, I think it has additional problems. The skill wants you to rush through your allies to an enemy to hit him, keep your illumination going and heal your allies. The flipover skill to cancel the animation feels quite weird in my opinion. Your character just stops and stands there, if you rush through an enemy you have turn and that feels sluggish. For me personally it would feel really fitting to have the flipover be an attack, that maybe gives some benefit if you hit an enemy. That way it plays into the bruiser/offensive-support type weapon and offers you a better play pattern, instead of just rushing and starting to auto attack. Right now it feels more like a movement skill and not really something that is meant to charge in the battle. This is further excerberated as helio rush is by far the most used skill on the weapon, with the long cooldowns on all other skills and the 2 charges.

Gleaming Disc: I love it, fits perfect, no problems there

Solar Storm: From a supporter perspective the 2 cleanses seem not that impactful, i have not really figured out if more shards can theoretically cleanse more, but it feels underpowered right now. I would like the illuminated version to cleanse more, especially considering it forces players to also position right to even get the cleanses, something that is sometimes challenging in the heat of battle.

Symbol of Luminance: This skill is really packed but from a support standpoint I am wondering how to really get usage out of it. The knockback is nice in pvp, also the weakness, but in PVE the symbol feels quite lackluster. I have no Problem getting illumination from the other skills, so just using it to start the chain going feels like a waste. Usually you spam symbols to proc your Writ of persistence, but the big downtime due to the long cooldown prohibits that usage. Maybe it is really essential for PVP and PVE, but it feels a bit underwhelming in PVE right now.

I think that ties into a bit of the Illumination-mechanic. For me it feels rewarding to use the illuminated Gleaming Disc, Helio Rush might be the case but especially Solar Storm doesn’t benefit that much. In addition to being not that difficult to start while stacking and running through enemies, I sometimes feel like the illumination mechanic could create bigger benefits, right now it feels not that impactful imo.

Play pattern: As alluded to earlier, I think in addition to Helio Rush just chargin through and DPS-Wise tying so much damage to one skill makes the weapon feel really bursty, but also not that much bruiser-support-like? I think changing the flipover from Helio Rush to an attack would help in that regard but i would maybe also like a “real” aa-chain with an additional benefit for the 3^rd hit. Right now the playstyle feels a bit like running around with your helio rush (a slower, bit worse Flowing Resolve) and then using gleaming disc every 12 second and sometimes solar storm. I saw other players use it as a really sweet burst weapon, but I don’t know if that is the intended playstyle? I got a different impression in the livestream and it isn’t really interesting from a Firebrand/Support guard viewpoint.

In general I think there is a lot of room for Spear as a support weapon for Willbender but also for Firebrand, just offering some might and fury (maybe a flipover-helio rush could offer 3 more might :P) is really relevant for the FB toolkit. I really like that! I would really like for Spear to be that bruiser option that you can switch staff for, considering it isn’t that helpful in PVE in my opinion and offering might uptime and swiftness.

[Saiyan.1704]

I want to keep the 20k downcleave on Spear#2 lol.

[MagicBot.1570]

Helio Rush is trash

[Arken.3725]

Spvp perspective:

Auto-attack:  Not bad but maybe the healing could affect the player?

Helio Rush:  Looks clumsy to use as well as too short of a distance.  Also, maybe have the heal affect the player?  If anything, you can remove the 2nd charge and change it to 1200 distance.

Gleaming Disk:  Pretty cool

Solar Storm:  Really neat looking

Symbol of Luminance:  This is how ALL symbols should be, front-loaded boon application.

 

[Kris Knives.8513]

I know this is is super late but, it is very weird spear is power weapon when power guardian already has Sword, Longsword and Hammer.  I feel like it would have more of a place in the meta as a condi or hybrid weapon.  Too late now for that sort of feedback but I just thought it in the shower and had to say it.

[Bish.8627]

Quote

Guardian spear shone brightly in WvW, especially in large-scale fights. Spear’s biggest pain point was how its second skill functioned. Pressing the key again to stop early felt awkward and had a few bugs. Helio Rush is seeing an update similar to the elementalist’s Ripple: it is now a ground target, and you will stop when reaching the target location. Its tool kit is getting some updates, like improvements to its self-healing and healing on Solar Storm, and Symbol of Luminance will now always apply resistance to allies once.

Where do they get their info? Because I didnt see many people if any at all say it was good for large scale WvW. It was good in the hands of Willbender roaming becaused you could JI and instant CC someone then burst, but you also get 2 more mobility skills, the self support was bad and the damage too. Glad some of the things are being fixed, but they miss a glaring hole here, again, it was NOT good in mass scale WvW, because the skill 1 only has 3 targets.... It needs 5 or it wont be used for support or in many kits just like axe.

I am still more in favour of a total rework into a quickness weapon, give firebrands a power alternative, give Dragonhunter a quickness spec maybe, that is something new, something Guardian doesnt have. Guardian already has power and support weapons, both of which are more pure for purpose and make more sense in 90% of kits over what we saw, and even a retuned version of what we saw. And its highly unlikely to be a healer firebrands choice as again 3 targets...

And if not quickess, make it condition damage, its illuminattion based but no burns?! This would slot into Firebrands easy if it had burns, PvE for quickness condition and WvW for celestiall burn brand. Even some roaming builds. Thats 3 entire spec METAs rather than it probably not getting into many kits at all as it stands.

tl;dr: IT MUST BE 5 TARGETS

[Supernova Starr.2069]

Outside sPvP WB and WvW roaming WB, this weapon is doa

Meanwhile some classes are getting a weapon that works with most specs and multiple game modes

[Supernova Starr.2069]

1 hour ago, Bish.8627 said:

give firebrands a power alternative

Hammer is here since launch

Edited August 7 by Supernova Starr.2069

[Arken.3725]

Spvp:

I'm just going to leave this here:  Pretty much all new Guardian Weaponry has not been utilized since their inception.  Pistols are meh, OH-Sword is meh and so is Axe MH.  The only "new" weapon that's consistently utilized in spvp is Longbow and is ONLY used on DH.  Guardians have a history of terrible weapons, especially the newly released ones.  

This weapon WILL be bad based upon past practices.  These are facts and cannot be disputed if you look at anyone who plays spvp at a decent level.  Spear will just be another mediocre weapon that will have its initial shine and then fade into obscurity like the rest, mark my words.

Edited August 8 by Arken.3725

[draxynnic.3719]

11 hours ago, Arken.3725 said:

Spvp:

I'm just going to leave this here:  Pretty much all new Guardian Weaponry has not been utilized since their inception.  Pistols are meh, OH-Sword is meh and so is Axe MH.  The only "new" weapon that's consistently utilized in spvp is Longbow and is ONLY used on DH.  Guardians have a history of terrible weapons, especially the newly released ones.  

This weapon WILL be bad based upon past practices.  These are facts and cannot be disputed if you look at anyone who plays spvp at a decent level.  Spear will just be another mediocre weapon that will have its initial shine and then fade into obscurity like the rest, mark my words.

Sword/sword is being used by at least some willbenders now. Firebrands did use axe back in the days before firebrand was basically removed from spvp. Pistols... yeah. 

[Arken.3725]

5 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Sword/sword is being used by at least some willbenders now. Firebrands did use axe back in the days before firebrand was basically removed from spvp. Pistols... yeah. 

I'm talking currently. I'm seeing will benders use focus more than sword now and that weapon isn't even good. 

I'll gladly wager 100 gold that after everyone has had their initial "coping" that spear will not be utilized. 

[Bish.8627]

1 hour ago, Arken.3725 said:

I'm talking currently. I'm seeing will benders use focus more than sword now and that weapon isn't even good. 

I'll gladly wager 100 gold that after everyone has had their initial "coping" that spear will not be utilized. 

Hard agree, same happened to the Rev scepter. Power/support combos are very hard to pull off, it mostly just ends up bland not doing enough dps or support to be worth slotting over another weapon.

[draxynnic.3719]

18 hours ago, Arken.3725 said:

I'm talking currently. I'm seeing will benders use focus more than sword now and that weapon isn't even good. 

I'll gladly wager 100 gold that after everyone has had their initial "coping" that spear will not be utilized. 

We'll see. I've heard people saying it was pretty good in WvW. Would make sense for it to be more effective in that environment than spvp, although it might see some use in teamfights, possibly as an alternative for sword/shield. I don't imagine it'll be an ideal weapon for 1v1s, since it's not designed for that.

[Supernova Starr.2069]

19 hours ago, Arken.3725 said:

I'm talking currently. I'm seeing will benders use focus more than sword now and that weapon isn't even good.

Tbh, guardian never had a reliable OH weapon for power purposes, I personally go with OH sword for extra mobility rather than focus/shield

46 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

We'll see. I've heard people saying it was pretty good in WvW. Would make sense for it to be more effective in that environment than spvp, although it might see some use in teamfights, possibly as an alternative for sword/shield. I don't imagine it'll be an ideal weapon for 1v1s, since it's not designed for that.

It's decent for opening combos with a pretty good burst, and cleaving downeds as well with Helio Rush

My issue is mainly the fact that power pve builds still sitting is GS+S/F, same goes for HFB which is camping staff 90% of the time, ocasionally swapping to A/S or M/S for niche purposes

[Panda.1967]

They basically ignored all the feedback on Guardian Spear and fixed an issue that was at the very bottom of the list of problems…

Design: deals less damage than other professions spears, but provides greater support

Feedback: it does no damage and provides no support

Changes: we fixed the mobility issue you mentioned

[Assic.2746]

On 8/10/2024 at 4:37 PM, Panda.1967 said:

They basically ignored all the feedback on Guardian Spear and fixed an issue that was at the very bottom of the list of problems…

Design: deals less damage than other professions spears, but provides greater support

Feedback: it does no damage and provides no support

Changes: we fixed the mobility issue you mentioned

It's good that at least Helio Rush movement issue got fixed and it will now also heal the caster.

I am not sure why ANet has buffed Solar Storm. It was good enough already. Nothing to complain about here. Now it's even better.

But there are still unaddressed issues they haven't mentioned:

1. Skill #1 animation bug when running. 

2. Skill #2 animation was slow, had a weird ramp up and was affected by quickness. Movement skills do not speed up with quickness.

3.  Skill #3 applied blind on a delay. Which was just bad. You didn't get to fully control which attack you mitigated with that blind.

4. A lot of players were asking for a chain auto-attack. That was unlikely to get adapted a few weeks before the expansion release. 

Edited August 11 by Assic.2746
typo

[Assic.2746]

OK. They have not fixed the auto attack animation. And the cone still appears behind the character when charging, dashing and changing movement direction.

Visible in Bloom's VOD  6:16 - 6:21. 

Edited August 16 by Assic.2746

[Txema.7859]

Helio Rush is just bad, it feels wrong, awkward, slow, clunky

 

Make it a short teleport with a jump or a fast moving dash

[Thayon.2107]

Helio Rush feels really bad. The main problem that I'm having with it is that I'll dash so far into the enemy's hitbox that it disables my auto-attack from functioning and my character just stands there doing nothing.