Janthir Wilds Spear Beta Event Feedback: Elementalist

[Sylvyn.4750]

On Vallun's Twitch stream, the clunkiness of the etching mechanic earned the nickname Etch-a-Sketch.  The etching needs to last longer, and I think similar to a Herald's dragon facets, the etching should move as you move, otherwise it becomes a useless mechanic in highly mobile WvW and PvP fights...and the directional attacks of completed etchings are too hard to land in such environments as well.  Definitely a PvE weapon at this point.

[Zera.9435]

Pros: 1200 range is perfect, rotations feel simple, and I feel rewarded for cycling through attunements. Meteor is just so satisfying. Was playing it on tempest so I can take advantage of shouts and it feels like a nice set up.

Cons: The timing for etching feels a bit tight, especially without alacrity. I can pull it off, but I feel even just 1 additional second would be a godsend. Etching also makes me concerned about seeing enemy floor effects. I'm usually pretty good at not standing in the fire, but I think etching will make it a little harder for me to do it well.  Water 3 (Ripple) is risky because it moves you outside of the etch.

Suggestions: Increase etch duration by at least 1 second, but 2 would be better. If the point is to stay inside the etch, then Ripple should not move you out of it with it's current duration. A longer etch duration would mitigate the self-sabotage of using Ripple at an inopportune time.

[Loke.1429]

disappointing damage overall. needs aoe on auto. needs faster damage from volano. It doesnt fit so well with talents, and doesnt synergize with itself (blast far, field up close). It also suffers greatly from the weak baseline defence of ele, so it isnt just glassy, its practically a free kill. And if there is any 3 target cap bs when this goes live.....................

Edited Friday at 08:07 PM by Loke.1429

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

I think these skills are assigned to the wrong element?
Skills

My bad, Weaver forgot you can dual element.

Edited Friday at 09:22 PM by Seth Moonshadow.2710
Corrected

[Ragnarox.9601]

After playing wvw whole day you can improve some of the skills:

All weapon #3 skills should activate instant like hammer 3.

All weapon #5 skills should last 2 seconds more.

Lightning #2 should be more wider and dmg ticking faster, it often does not do any dmg cause 1 dodge and ppl are out of it, or give it a cripple or taunt so enemies stay in it more ( would like to be similar to Frost storm conjured bow but like lightning spears dropping from the air. )

Water 2# should also heal same amount like dmg. Water #5 should heal slightly more.

Fire is ok just increase dmg by little.

Earth #2 should do more dmg.

Earth #3 instead of barrier you should change it to magnetic aura or some kind of reflect.

Thats it, use this suggestion and I will like it. 

 

 

Edited Friday at 10:12 PM by Ragnarox.9601

[Anthony.8056]

I really like the animations on the spear and hope they look at previous weapons before adding a new weapon. I do agree that the etching skill should be changed because of how dark the field is at the base. I suggest keeping the symbol but removing the solid dark color underneath or make it transparent. The other thing I would change from skill 5 is that we have one aoe on fire attunement, but the rest are all projectile spells which doesn't mesh with one another. I would keep Volcano, Derecho, and Haboob but replace the water one with an aoe Blizzard skill. Keep and move the wave animation from skill 5 to skill 2 on spear replacing the ice beam to heal and chill. Also, the etching should last longer.

[DanIsMyNewName.9826]

Thoughts after testing in WvW.

This weapon's fundamentals are flawed in regards to world versus world in the NA meta. The idea of standing still and spamming skills quickly to get an extra big burst is cool, but impractical, especially with the flashiness of the Etching AoE's. The ideal place for a normal DPS build in WvW is on tag in melee moving in and out of damage rings while getting buffs from allies. This means that it is incredibly unlikely that you will be able to pull off an empowered skill 5 in a blob.

This brings up the question, "What if you don't stand in the blob?". The answer is a bit complicated, freecasting on zergs with staff was my favorite playstyle when Meteor Shower was good. The spear has the same range as a staff, but its so much more limiting and ineffective when you are off a blob you are vulnerable and have no healing/buffs from allies so you have to not be noticed by anyone so that you can get off your damaging skills. All of the Etching skills have massive flashy AoEs that scream "Come kill me, I'm going to cast a big damaging ability soon."  AND you are incentivized to stay in the ring  to get off your empowered volcano and not use ele's many movement abilities to run away. the best part about Staff is that after you cast your AoE DoT skills you can Lightning Flash away and get cooldowns back or hide from the enemy.  This playstyle doesn't function with the spear since you have one damage over time skill which means that you have to play it like a hammer where you want to constantly be pressing other skills as filler to keep up damage. There is a few problems I've seen with this, one is CC and the other is skill 3. Since skill 3 does 0 damage due to it being a utility skill in all cases, there is a significant drop in damage from weaver playstyles (I'll go over specializations more later). The other problem is CC with the update to CC skills not doing damage, the #4 skills on Air and water do no damage to zergs. While  i cant deny the utility of a float, you are unable to combo it well with the rest of the spear kit. you don't have any accessible hard hitting moves in air or water, you have to swap attunements and then you lose access to your etching. overall the non projectile skills are low damage and have little use in zergs.

Solo roaming is not this weapons strong suit, the damage is low enough that you need to build full glass, and the lack of conds make it poor for skirmishing. 

Elite specializations and Traits

Tempest

condition damage is nonexistent on this, so fire/earth builds are bad, the fire/air  variants are best in melee so its hard to justify a spear when you can have more potent options with scepter. this weapon does very little to no healing and ally support, so it cannot be used for that either.

Catalyst

This weapon has only one multi hit skill in volcano, so energy generation is very low. No aura skills also make this a poor choice

Weaver

The dual skills do no damage, but recharge your primary attunement meaning that you never want to press 5 when you have 2 attunements on thereby lowering the versatility of the weapon. Dual attacks not being damaging also turns off Superior Elements trait  as well which is a very important weaver trait for strike weapons. Elements of rage being easy to get 100% uptime is negated by the timing restrictions on the etching and makes it very hard to keep the buff while you use 3 skills and then channel the empowered etching skills.

Potential solutions/reworks

skill 1 has no Aoe potential making it bad for clearing camps and killing enemies in anything but 1v1s if they did 3 target aoe damage in even a 120ish radius or sending separate spears at each target it would help. 

skill 2 has the most going for it, but water could use some help. Area buffs like regen and vigor are common on water skills, but nothing  is here, another option would be to make it pulse chill after the initial damage and make it a frost field to blast

Skill 3 needs some kind of damage  instead of just modifiers, having a mandatory utility/survival skill is fine but the fact that they don't have any offensive utility that isn't reliant on your next hit makes it hard to gain momentum in fights. if the fire one gave out a stack of burning in a radius and the air  one struck the last person you hit with a lightning bolt and the water one affected allies and the  earth one crippled in an area i think it would be better.

Skill 4 is tricky because this just seems like the coefficients are off. and the effects are on the wrong attunements. the from water should be in the earth attunement, the float should be in water, the  cripple and weak should be in air and the raw damage is fine on fire. it would also be nice if the water one had an ally support option with it

Skill 5 is the most unique by far but it has some flaws that need to be addressed. the radius/limited mobility, allies, skill the empowerment/ being able to use it. When you cast 5 you are incentivized to use your instant cast skills to get access to it faster, imagining you use 1 auto that means that you have to use a mandatory instant cast utility skill to use spear along side your 3 skill. then you need to cast 5 again to get the effect of the skill. so in reality skill 5 is actually skills 1,3,7 and 5. having a tekken combo that you have to press to get a volcano to pop out of the ground is cool, but is impractical in fights/under pressure, If the #of skills required to empower the skill was lower or produced a  distinct tiered effect rather than just being a single better version would be more satisfying to use. tiers of the effect could be based on the number of times skills were used in it, and could vary in Aoe size, damage, number of impacts, additional conditions/effects and many more improving on the previous version each time, the  line attack on the skills is cool and can be powerful but it is hard to line up in the time limit. once you have empowered your etching, you have at most 1 or 1.5 seconds to determine the best way to aim the skill before the etching fades. this could be mitigated by having it autocast after the timer expires or giving it a different circular effect centered on the etching if the timer expires. this would help mitigate the risk of swapping attunements and give it a more dynamic feel. The Etching itself is self only in its effects, this is just unnecessary, aoe stab is something many other allies can do and this weapon is locked to being a damage only weapon just by the fact that allies cant get affected by the etchings. The restriction of movement is too intense with the size of the aoe, you barely have room to dodge roll in it. The size of  the aoe in its current implimentation is just to keep you stationary while you attempt to fire a big laser and is actively detrimental to survival. 

Concluding thoughts: the Spear skills feel samey from attunement to attunement, the effects are all less potent than they should be and the restraint of skill 5 and lack of ally support make it impossible to function in a WvW context. There are 10 skills that do meaningful instant damage out of 20  (26 if you count dual attacks) this kills the potential of this weapon in its current state.

TLDR; This weapon doesn't work for WvW right now.

[Nero.7369]

No feedback cause i have no clue on ele.
THO

BUG: Water Leap skill with Superspeed will make the leap go much further and much faster

[Rittsu.5698]

How i would rework the Spear.

The whole mechanic is mantein the etching fantasy meanwhile make it fun. 

How to mantein the fantasy: put the etching as the 1 skill, the area gives some damage, with the chain being a delayed expansion of the circle aesthetic. Yes its counterintuitive and frustraiting the idea of do not have a atk, but we're gonna use a very low damage and cd version of 2-5 (all of that are combo finishers) giving us something like the thief mechanic. The circle is being completed and the skills are gonna being upgraded to a bigger damage and cd chain mechanic. Adding the 3 skill buffs to the etching chain process. 

Now that the Etching itself is the whole part of all the kit, we're not losing the whole idea giving Weaver a decent skill. Just change 3 and 5 skill, utilizing the generic Water-Air-Earth Etching Active as a new 5 skill (dont forget to make a fire one), reusing things like Water 3 mixed to the generic Wave for a cool dash, and things like It. 

With new skills based on Volcano originality for the other 3 elements on the 3 skill, we can mix the elements and still gave the ultra power mixed skill fantasy. 

 

I know the text looks crazy, and how are the chances, but i tried to reuse the maximum of atual stuff into respect to the devs, but in a way that would resolve tudo frustration with the weapon. It being said, and knowing that nothing Will chance, please just have some balls and make Water a damage element in spear, add a chill component to the atk and make the element hit hard.

[Matt H.6142]

Biggest issue - Volcano. You build up the etching, finally place it, and nothing happens for a couple seconds.  Big volcano pops out of the ground and no effect on the world.  Please put an initial strike when it is created.  I had plenty of Silverwaste mobs just walk away before the damage.

Secondly the other etchings don’t follow terrain, so don’t think about standing on higher ground.

I’m ok with the etching duration.  Don’t dare dodge or be Cc’d during it like, or you’ll miss it.  Fully commit or don’t bother.  I’m sure it’ll be made easier though.

Doesn’t really fit weaver well. The dual attacks allowing for full attunement immediately prove that point.  Has some overlap with Catalyst play but it appreciates fury on attunement swap.  
Actually has me playing an arcane core ele, so yay for more builds.

also, you don’t have to be in the etching to charge it up, or at least you can lightning flash out of it and it’ll still charge on skill use.  (Meaning the etching is just for show, and likely to get dropped in future patches.)  *Tested this later, and only lightning flashing out allows it to charge outside the circle.

Edited Monday at 07:02 PM by Matt H.6142
Add etching area note

[Batalix.2873]

5 hours ago, Sylvyn.4750 said:

On Vallun's Twitch stream, the clunkiness of the etching mechanic earned the nickname Etch-a-Sketch.  The etching needs to last longer, and I think similar to a Herald's dragon facets, the etching should move as you move, otherwise it becomes a useless mechanic in highly mobile WvW and PvP fights...and the directional attacks of completed etchings are too hard to land in such environments as well.  Definitely a PvE weapon at this point.

I actually kind of like this, or would if the combo field had a bit more of an effect on release of the skill. It would differentiate etchings better from symbols. Bring back gyros! We want the gyros! 

[Goat.7189]

First impressions from a pve perspective. The etchings feel weird to be stationary. I keep expecting the etchings follow me like a tempest overload. Also losing the etching by leaving the element on weaver is definitely a bug. 

Weapon skills feel a bit spammy but as a condi ele main that's just par for the course. What's not par are these condis which are distinctly lacking compared to well... every other ele weapon. I dont know whether the vision of a power ele weapon has forgotten or is forgetting that every ele weapon is meant to be hybrid. Some reasonable burning on Volcano or bleeding with Haboob could fit better.

For weaver specifically, I like the dual skills in how they come with Unravel built in and are instant cast to help facilitate the etchings. But, I wish they could have a lowered cd to 8s. This would make the (currently nonexistent) condi rotation a bit smoother by letting us double attune fire everytime we go fire/earth. The dual skills cd gets desynced if using a 2 element rotation. Going earth/fire->fire/earth->fire/fire->earth/fire twice will only let you double attune to fire once.

Cast times could be lowered across the board to differentiate it from staff and scepter in pve. Will be interesting to see how spear changes!

 

[Tambaloneus.6290]

I liked how fast most of it was, bc I primarily play sword/dagger or daggers and I've had the staff on to do stuff at range if I'm tired of being lost in the zerg but this feels like a fun alternative. Idk how the 5 skill works though, I never had enough time to get it to work, maybe each spell you do to charge it could add a little to the time-out counter? Then if it is fully charged it gets another second or so added bc I have slow hand-eye-coordination and find ground targeting stuff a bit more challenging. Otherwise I was enjoying. The effect of the etching looks super cool but I would ditch the "dark" multiply part of it, or make it 'blend' with the land more, it's magic after all. I liked the designs but I never get to appreciate them for long enough bc I'm madly trying to do other stuff. I also had a probably quite dumb idea but I'm made for that - what if after we get a few more extra weapons or whatever else we could get a trait line for those that could do extra stuff, since all the existing ones either use the vanilla weapons or are more specific to the elite weapons. Could we get some traits specifically for all the new ones one day?

[CETheLucid.3964]

Just reporting that dual attune skills on Weaver aren't working to charge the etch skills since the secret hotfix build to stop beta ele's from destroying WvW. Before that point Weaver was the definitive spec to play with spear. Friend thought the same thing it was working the other day and today it doesn't. This is similar to the hit and miss nature of dual attune skills on pistol where it doesn't always give a bullet.

Not much else to report. The etch circles need to last a wee bit longer than they do now. Timings too tight and the targeting feels hit or miss on most of the etch moves. But maybe that's me being a baby duck. Ele spear is pretty great otherwise.

Edited Saturday at 01:41 AM by CETheLucid.3964

[Kyon.9735]

WvW feedback (large scale fights):

1. The "cannon" part is missing in the "Glass Cannon". The damage is hard carried by Fire attunement and Volcano, and that is if the enemy group soaks in it. Definitely need number tweaks across the board.
2. Etching duration is pretty tight for WvW. If you get CC'ed once you'll most likely not have enough time to do a fully charged etching. The skills have delays so if you take your time predicting where the enemy will move, you're losing out precious seconds on your etching duration.
3. I find myself holding back a lot on actually using my weapon skills since they're critical to do a fully charged etching. I understand that utility skills work but most instant/quick animation utility skills are defensive one that you don't want to waste offensively. There's Arcane Blast but one can argue that there's a lot more utility skills that has more worth than it.
4. AA feels like it should do splash damage for some attunements (if not all). 3 targets looks like a good start.

IMO the skills flow amazingly and have smooth and fluid animations across all attunements. I hated how staff was slow and this is what staff animation speed should have been after 10 years. There's barely any defensive skills but that's ok as it's marketed as a glass cannon weapon. Hopefully the missing cannon part and etching duration issues gets looked into.

Edited Saturday at 03:59 AM by Kyon.9735

[DarkLancer.1902]

Okay, time to come clean. This is fun. It's functional. It's also staff 2.0. The spear doesn't really add a new dynamic to Elementalist gameplay, especially since the gimmick, 'etching', has all the same errors as the Catalyst spec: It doesn't play to its own strengths, the effect doesn't last long enough to be meaningful, and the enhanced version of the flip skill is not really an advantage over its lesser version. To top this off, the etching animation is so busy on the screen that seeing where the zone is for ground-targeted skills is nigh impossible. I enjoyed playing it, but I still get more mileage out of the staff and sword.

[Squigglez.1236]

Glad ele is potentially getting a ranged damage option again since staff was nerfed to the dirt. The skills for this are flashy, but a bit excessively so. Maybe make the etching more translucent because they just eat up so much screen space. I think the movement skill on water feels out of place since it causes you to run out of your symbols. The symbols are pretty short lived and make play feel even more rushed with the number of buttons eles are expected to press.

Edited Saturday at 07:05 AM by Squigglez.1236

[Fueki.4753]

I didn't like Elementalist's spear at all.

The etchings are ugly and big, yet the resulting spells are tiny in comparison. While it's a slight upside that it goes away rather quickly, one needs to be quick to get the most of it.

There also are too many ground-targetted abilities on this weapon, which in my opinion don't blend well with the etchings' quick nature.

Edited Saturday at 08:18 AM by Fueki.4753

[Noodle Ant.1605]

might just be me, but i dont like the current skill layout on the spear. i am aware that it makes it easier to design and understand, but it feels very on the nose - particularly with the same damage spread and cds across skills. at the moment, its barely different from one skill bar copy pasted 3 more times with slight alterations

skills #3 and #5 i can accept being mostly the same across all the attunements. i do think weaver dual skills should have proper skills attached however, because without them its like playing tempest where pressing the overload button instead simply gives a buff and does nothing else. skill #5 has issues but im sure people have already suggested plenty of possible changes to those

skill #4 is perhaps the biggest culprit of the copy-paste skill design. while water & air #4 is understandable with the 20s cd being cc skills, fire & earth #4 makes hardly any sense with high cd as mostly pure damage skills. these 2 skills could have 15s or even 12s (or lower) cd. water #4 should just be a 240 radius pull and does not need a center bonus, and id also question if air #4 should be the same as well (it is a 20s cd after all)

skills #1 (autoattack) and #2 serve as the main filler skills and are also very copy-paste. the autottack is pretty obvious in this case, but then most of the #2 skills are essentially just "an auto but better". i would propose the following to attempt to help differentiate them:

• fire #1: deal increased damage to burning targets. add long duration burning to fire #4 (and some to #5?)
• fire #2: change to use ammo, 1-2s count recharge and function similarly to dragons roar (consume all ammo available). its meant to be a barrage/volley after all
• water #1: deal (massively) increased damage to chilled targets. add chill to water #5. remove the heal, its a waste of time to camp water and spam autoattacks for it (rename to "shattering spear" or "shatterspear" or something)
• air #2: add generic damage so that the skill still does something even if the target has 60s of fulgor
• earth #2: this skill is quite literally a better autoattack. maybe make the skill more like a spammable pile driver/true shot (big windup for bigger payoff)
• adding pierce/bounce/aoe to autoattacks (and earth #2) should be considered as well

[Markus.6415]

Overall i really feel that the spear could became an amazingly fun weapon. I love the skill designs, the thought that went into everything, the etchings tied to the elder dragons, the breathtaking visuals. One of my concerns is that Anet could scrap away too much of the visuals, since nearly everyone else says the visual clutter is awful -> I love that visual clutter. It looks and feels powerful instead of the mediocre/boring skill effects of pistol and the most of the hammer skills. This is what a real Elementalist should do to the battlefield.

As many have stated, the damage needs some serious buffs. When Mesmer spear 2 deals more damage then the fully charged Etching skills... that is bad and doesn't match the powerful looks at all. It's just again extreme work for a damage tick that other classes have on a 6s cd ability??? They have to be devestating and all the other skills need mroe damage too

A nice thing I just found out, combo-finishers count for the Etchings! That means (only with quickness i guess) you can put the Etching: Vulcano -> Fire Overload -> and have the Vulcano ready after. Heres the problem that was also stated enough times already, the Etchings need to last longer. Either the whole Etching, or add 3s when it's fully charged up would feel 10x better.

Many people were claiming you can't get Persisting Flames buff - That's wrong -> Vulcano counts for the Firefield stacks (upkeeping 10 stacks is not possible though)

Etching cd reset on Weaver is a big problem, wich I'm sure will be fixed

Then I did some testing on the Fulgor ability. This powerbased condi is not it... It cannot crit and no buffs enhance it's damage? Only might stacks or more Power attribute (like you get in Fire attunement) increase the damage. Tempestuous Aria and Transcendent Tempest traits do nothing to it. That's a very bad design for a power weapon in my opinion. All those Buffs need to affect it and it needs critdamage to be useful.

The feels and looks and FUN is right there for me, unless i dare to look at arcdps 🙃. But that means with some thoughtful and fair tweeking, this could be an amazing weapon for PvE (I don't play other modes much)

[Kilty.4906]

My feedback is mainly on the aesthetics. In my opinion, those are some of the best animations/VFX in the game. However, I have one criticism. I feel that 3 out of 4 etching skills are very similar in concept, all being a simple frontal wave. Perhaps diversifying these skills by having 2 frontal waves and 2 point-blank AOE could make them more distinct.

[Aalter.2950]

I love the overall design. Y'all absolutely nailed the feel - the Spear really feels like a powerful ranged wizard charging up their abilities to unleash huge finales. ❤️

While I'm disappointed that it doesn't seem viable as a Condition-based weapon or a Healing weapon, I understand that Staff (while needing buffs but fitting both) and Hammer (while also being a Power weapon in addition to Condi) fill that niche.

There are many others with valuable feedback regarding the balance of these skills for PvE/WvW, so I'd like to focus on viability in PvP.

With the design based around restricting the player to one area while they charge their 5th skill, the weapon is at an inherent disatvantage in PvP. However, this tradeoff can be worthwhile if it provides a significant area control advantage or other payoff.

As the weapon stands currently, I think the damage on several (or all) of the 5th skill reactivations should be increased in PvP. Also, it may be worth extending the duration of the initial cast ground skill to allow for more time to charge it. Not only does the player need to pay the opportunity cost of staying in one area (making them vulnerable to enemy targeted abilities, unable to maneuver/use terrain for cover, etc.) but they must use skills while inside it. This can mean spending an addition opportunity cost of using skills at a suboptimal time to finish the charge and reactivate 5. Therefore, the payoff should be such that it's actually worth doing this in a PvP match - especially considering that skill may not land (blocks, evades, etc.) In fact, it may be fair to make the fully-charged 5 reactivation Unblockable so it feels powerful.

Another concern I have is the way the weapon works for Weavers.

Weavers gain access to some powerful Dual attack skills, but because of the way the 5th skills works they can functionally lose access to the entire mechanic. Weavers rely on swapping attunements more frequently than other specializations, so using the 5th skill correctly (especially in PvP) becomes very awkward. My recommendation to resolve this issue is simple: when the Weaver elite specialization is equipped, the 5th skill should charge independently of which attunement(s) the Weaver is using.

Currently, an Elementalist can cast Etching: Derecho (in Air Attunement), cast 3 skills to charge it up to Derecho (but not cast it), swap to Fire attunement, and Etching: Volcano will be in the 5th slot.

For a Weaver, the same is true but if fully attuned to Air at the start, swapping to Fire attunement (primary) keeps Derecho in the 5th slot but immediately puts it on cooldown (instead of counting as a skill cast to charge it or at least keeping Derecho available to cast).

Instead of keeping Derecho available just when swapping from double Air to Fire/Air attunement, I suggest attunement swaps count as a skill for charging Etchings and swapping from secondary attunement Air to Fire when Lesser Derecho or Derecho is available should make Lesser Volcano or Volcano (respectively) available in that slot, instead of resetting to Etching: Volcano.

That would make Spear a strong option for Power Weavers in PvP and hopefully upseat the Scepter as the only competitively viable ranged Power Weaver weapon.

Otherwise, I just want to reiterate that I really like the design of this weapon. Great work again guys ! 🙂

[Josspai.4356]

I already said this on another topic, but:

Visuals are amazing, but my main concern with spear is that, by themselves, etchings don't really do much. We have to stay inside this restricted area that, besides being a cool combo field (that we can't even really effectively combo cause this is meant to be a long ranged weapon), doesn't do anything on its own.

I mean, other weapon skills with area effects do damage, pulse boons, heal etc., the same goes for overloads and jade spheres, but etchings are... kinda there for a few seconds?

I get that the main skill is Volcano, Derecho..., and that this is not a support-oriented weapon, but still, I think they should at least pulse some kind of condition (burning for fire, chill for water, etc), so that foes are somehow punished for getting inside, otherwise we are pretty much asking to be targeted while we try to charge our 5th skill inside it. 😅

[ShatteredStars.6548]

It's a beta, if some of you really think these weapons will be released in august like they are now with no tuneups or adjustments, you havent paid attention to the weapons we got in soto.

[Markus.6415]

13 minutes ago, vrauns.3215 said:

It's a beta, if some of you really think these weapons will be released in august like they are now with no tuneups or adjustments, you havent paid attention to the weapons we got in soto.

Criticism in a Feedback thread is quite important to make it the weapon we want at launch. But I guess you're talking to the big doomers that cancel their puchase plans for the expansion already, just because of some weapon numbers not high enough.