DeWolfe.2174 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 6 hours ago, Dibit.6259 said: Oh yes let's blame the "elite" gamers Umm... yes. The Dev's have certainly been listening and catering to a small specific group of streamers/raiders/elitist. 1 1 11 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 21 minutes ago, DeWolfe.2174 said: Umm... yes. The Dev's have certainly been listening and catering to a small specific group of streamers/raiders/elitist. oh have they, how exactly? 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 (edited) On 7/15/2024 at 6:59 AM, Francois.4582 said: New players are leaving the game, old ones too... is gw2 becoming a game we avoid? Indeed we see newcomers to the game staying for a few weeks or months and then leaving the game, but why? Often they are confronted with the growing toxicity in gw2 which involves systematically asking for "kp.me" requiring registration on a website which is not an integral part of the game, and this for content that is a little more difficult to do in a group like fractals, raids, strikes etc. We have almost no metrics on this and the limited amount we have (mostly just Steam player count) disagree with your claim. Steam player count has been stable and in fact slightly growing. Which indicates that at least in that subsection of players, the amount of players entering the game outperforms the ones leaving. Furthermore, given that there is some degree of motivation to transfer from a Steam GW2 account to a regular GW2 account, especially very new players might see an even higher drop in Steam. There is no growing toxicity, segregation and grouping based on skill is as old as this game. It started with (by Today standards) irrational demand of specific AP amounts, pinging of gear, demand of certain classes into more sensible proof of ability demands. You lacking the fundamental experience in this area does not make your claim true. Also kp.me and proof of ability demands usually only show up in content which for the majority of players is challenging, otherwise groups would not bother with this extra hassle. Quote Furthermore we also find the departure of former players who are confronted, for example, with bugs on the successes of the game which date back several years already, gw2 is a collector's game so imagine the frustration of people who have been trying to finish their successes for several years and who are deprived of it. In addition, the fun in the game seems to have disappeared to guarantee the comfort of play for the elite minority, I am thinking in particular of the removal of stealth and super speed on the lurker's traps which was first reduced to avoid outsiders in pvp then which finally disappeared from all game modes therefore even from pve. Another example in wvw: the golems which are quite amusing and always cause a sensation among players are not available at "higher" level for purchase with wvw tokens. Has the fun left the game in the minds of the developers? This seems very WvW oriented and while I might agree that not everything done balance wise or for that mode has hit the spot in recent years, the mode is going through significant changes. You are just generalizing here and expanding your likely limited experience to this one mode to the entire game. 8 hours ago, DeWolfe.2174 said: Umm... yes. The Dev's have certainly been listening and catering to a small specific group of streamers/raiders/elitist. This is what it looks like when the developers develop more than 1 type of content and some players disagree. What they are in fact doing is trying to accommodate a few niche communities via streamlining content and using already designed content for these niche communities. Let that sink in: even the "challenging" content is basically copy paste from the open world content. The content distribution is still heavily, and I mean HEAVILY, focused on general PvE and open world content and story with likely 90% of the developer resources being focus on that content. There is no indication that this will change with Janthir Wilds with housing now being added as well. Edited July 18 by Cyninja.2954 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 The op stirred the pot successfully here didn’t they… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeWolfe.2174 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 1 hour ago, Cyninja.2954 said: This is what it looks like when the developers develop more than 1 type of content and some players disagree. Sure, they are reusing some assets from PvE for instanced content too but, WvW hasn't gotten a new map in a decade. It doesn't even get simple reward tracks for every annual PvE festival. Compare that to how many Raids/Strikes/CM's/FOTM have been created since then. Even the WvW changes they rammed down our throats cater to the streamers/raiders/elitist. Not even talking about build and balance issues. The dev's rarely ever communicate with their regular paying customers and ask us what we want. And, it shows... 1 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costepj.5120 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 The last time a new map was added to WvW it generated such a negative response it's unsurprising they haven't rushed to repeat that episode. (For the record, I prefer the desert borderland, but I'm likely still in the minority) 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 40 minutes ago, DeWolfe.2174 said: Sure, they are reusing some assets from PvE for instanced content too but, WvW hasn't gotten a new map in a decade. It doesn't even get simple reward tracks for every annual PvE festival. Compare that to how many Raids/Strikes/CM's/FOTM have been created since then. Even the WvW changes they rammed down our throats cater to the streamers/raiders/elitist. Not even talking about build and balance issues. The dev's rarely ever communicate with their regular paying customers and ask us what we want. And, it shows... Yes, the abundance of instanced content really is putting a dent on other modes... /s What you are complaining about is the PvE focus of the game, and not the instanced side of it. Which has NOTHING to do with you choice of "let's blame this subsection of players". As to balance, the majority of balance in WvW is focused on normalisation and reduction of high impact skills while providing a constant baseline of boons and a common gear set. That's the exact opposite of what most highly specialized players want. It's the definition of catering to the lowest skill player. The amount of instanced content delivered is barely above the development WvW has seen. Years and more in-between releases at best. Go check the wiki to refresh your memory of release cadence if need be. Glad we could clear that up. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladestrom.6425 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 (edited) On 7/15/2024 at 5:59 AM, Francois.4582 said: New players are leaving the game, old ones too... is gw2 becoming a game we avoid? Indeed we see newcomers to the game staying for a few weeks or months and then leaving the game, but why? Often they are confronted with the growing toxicity in gw2 which involves systematically asking for "kp.me" requiring registration on a website which is not an integral part of the game, and this for content that is a little more difficult to do in a group like fractals, raids, strikes etc. Furthermore we also find the departure of former players who are confronted, for example, with bugs on the successes of the game which date back several years already, gw2 is a collector's game so imagine the frustration of people who have been trying to finish their successes for several years and who are deprived of it. In addition, the fun in the game seems to have disappeared to guarantee the comfort of play for the elite minority, I am thinking in particular of the removal of stealth and super speed on the lurker's traps which was first reduced to avoid outsiders in pvp then which finally disappeared from all game modes therefore even from pve. Another example in wvw: the golems which are quite amusing and always cause a sensation among players are not available at "higher" level for purchase with wvw tokens. Has the fun left the game in the minds of the developers? What are you talking about? new players don't do content that needs kp (raids/some strikes/ some max agony fractals) , elite minority isn't a thing apart from raids and co which historically has these issues in all MMO, but represents a tiny slither of the GW population, and GW2 remains and always will be a collectors game. As for the WVW golem jibber jabber, that's just bizarre, if you want to pilot a Golem then great you got a nice goal to aim for, focus your attention on getting those skills, its trivially to do. Edited July 18 by Bladestrom.6425 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noidea Incognito.9607 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 What could really help to put minds to rest is Anet posting an official stat sheet once a year (how many players revived, how many players died, top 10 most popular maps, most used mount, top 10 most purchased gem store items, most used miniature, highest dps recorded in pvp / wvw/ pve , total players with most age / ap / wardrobe collectibles, how many Jumping puzzles complete, top 10 Raid bosses causing wipes, most popular Dungeon/fractal etc etc. This could tell everyone how popular gw2 is plus its funny to know cause.... stats. o7 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibit.6259 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 (edited) On 7/17/2024 at 11:56 PM, DeWolfe.2174 said: Umm... yes. The Dev's have certainly been listening and catering to a small specific group of streamers/raiders/elitist. Ok let's compare what we got in the last expansion. Note: the listed examples are what are considered the main targeted audience but are not necessarily restricted to that audience only. As previously stated "elites" got - 1 or 2 strikes and their corresponding cms - 2 strikes and their corresponding cms (and legendary cm for febe) Where as open pve got - 4 new maps, one being a new hub city - open world legendary armour - easier way to obtain skyscale - regular story updates - new weapon specializations - new set of masteries - a new instanced 50 man group content and edit: maybe it's corresponding cm - several new meta events I could add more but most of those are cosmetic then content. Also not to mention that pvp and wvw yet again got nothing. Anet tailor to the majority of their playerbase which is casual pve players, but it doesn't mean they don't also tailor some content for people looking for more challenging content. Casual pve players will also natural progress to doing more challenging end game content, you'd think they'd continue to play the game if all we had was the 7 raid wings and old fractals all these years? Edited July 20 by Dibit.6259 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passerbye.6291 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 (edited) 17 hours ago, DeWolfe.2174 said: Umm... yes. The Dev's have certainly been listening and catering to a small specific group of streamers/raiders/elitist. Nice meme bro. I love how you can always tell someone is salty for being bad when they make a post like this. We have more and more builds doing 30k+ dps with little to no effort, endgame group content which was previously considered to be only for people who wished to challenge themselves has never been more accessible, sometimes at the cost of some people's enjoyment of challenging content, every single class in the game can provide alacrity/quickness, and most of those also have decent healing options as well so that anyone can play endgame content without having to have multiple characters. Oh man, as a toxic elitist I feel so catered to, oh wait, those are all changes made for the general playerbase. We're reaching entitlement levels that shouldn't even be possible at this point. If 98% of a release is meant for the ultra casual players, these people will still pick up their pitchforks with a capital B and demand that the remaining 2% be made accessible to them as well. Edited July 18 by Passerbye.6291 4 3 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biermeister.4678 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 8 hours ago, costepj.5120 said: The last time a new map was added to WvW it generated such a negative response it's unsurprising they haven't rushed to repeat that episode. (For the record, I prefer the desert borderland, but I'm likely still in the minority) Because of that pve content in the center of the map was the main reason and the Elitest did not like how far it is between structures 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeWolfe.2174 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 9 hours ago, Dibit.6259 said: -words- Yes, all that and WvW got? oh that's right, nothing. The last real update to WvW was 7 years ago with the 2017 Competitive Feature Pack. Anyone trying to defend the dev's and say they aren't catering is laughable. 1 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozumi.5816 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 On 7/15/2024 at 12:59 AM, Francois.4582 said: Has the fun left the game in the minds of the developers? Yes, after SotO its obvious this game has no future. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 1 hour ago, DeWolfe.2174 said: Yes, all that and WvW got? oh that's right, nothing. The last real update to WvW was 7 years ago with the 2017 Competitive Feature Pack. Anyone trying to defend the dev's and say they aren't catering is laughable. No one here is defending the developers and least of all the changes made to different modes which show clear signs of cuts, streamlining, loss of quality, etc. What is being challenged is your place of blame on specific groups of players as a cause for many of these issues. As to resources devoted to WvW: I am pretty sure the recent restructuring which is still ongoing and was the focus of the last 3-4 years of WvW beats out any development resources spent on the 7 strikes and 2 fractals PvE instanced content got (all of which were reused assets from story or previous content). 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeWolfe.2174 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 45 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said: As to resources devoted to WvW: I am pretty sure the recent restructuring which is still ongoing and was the focus of the last 3-4 years of WvW beats out any development resources spent on the 7 strikes and 2 fractals PvE instanced content got (all of which were reused assets from story or previous content). WHAT??? All they did was create a new label for the WvW teams and tossed people into them based of Guild association. It's a nothing on "development resources". 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illuminati.8453 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 The future of GW2 is GW3. They know it, and we know it. Have fun and don't stress about GW2, enjoy it for what it has to offer right now. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 (edited) 4 hours ago, DeWolfe.2174 said: WHAT??? All they did was create a new label for the WvW teams and tossed people into them based of Guild association. It's a nothing on "development resources". That's completely ommitting the behind the scenes work on one of the integral systems of the game. In case you fail to recall the statement made by the developers in regards to how absolutely important it is to not botch this up since server choice was/is an integral part of an accounts design, which had to be untangled properly. Sometimes the visibly easiest things can be insanely complex and complicated in the background. I get you have no experince with programming but you should have payed at least some attention to the communication if you were actually interested. Edited July 19 by Cyninja.2954 4 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibit.6259 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 7 hours ago, DeWolfe.2174 said: Yes, all that and WvW got? oh that's right, nothing. The last real update to WvW was 7 years ago with the 2017 Competitive Feature Pack. Anyone trying to defend the dev's and say they aren't catering is laughable. If you actually took the time to read my post you would have seen I actually mentioned that wvw and pvp got nothing. My point was that anet tailor to casual pve players the most not "elites" that you and op have blamed. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francois.4582 Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 (edited) On 7/15/2024 at 5:28 PM, Randulf.7614 said: . Turn on your computer, launch gw2, choose your favorite character, log in, consult the lfg of the latest expansion: everything is empty most of the time. Understood? Edited July 19 by Francois.4582 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francois.4582 Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 (edited) On 7/15/2024 at 6:14 PM, Fueki.4753 said: . So gw2 will become a casual game... 😢 Edited July 19 by Francois.4582 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 2 minutes ago, Francois.4582 said: Turn on your computer, launch gw2, choose your favorite character, log in, consult the lfg of the latest expansion: everything is empty most of the time. Understood? I never have an issues finding groups in map or lfg most of the time in SoTo. In fact I've been in SKywatch all week doing achievements, champions and so forth without issue. I call out for players and they descend en masse. And I reciprocate when others call out too. I think you need to take your own advice there 😉 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francois.4582 Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 (edited) On 7/15/2024 at 6:20 PM, kiroho.4738 said: . The criticism is not constructive unlike mine. Edited July 19 by Francois.4582 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francois.4582 Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 (edited) On 7/18/2024 at 8:58 AM, Cyninja.2954 said: . In fact, I only have limited experience with the game: 11000 hours. And you? Edited July 19 by Francois.4582 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiroho.4738 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 3 minutes ago, Francois.4582 said: La critique n’est pas constructive contrairement à la mienne. Why did you translate my whole comment in french? And why do you answer in french in the english forum? If you want to tell me something, use the language of the forum please. Ich schreibe ja auch nicht plötzlich auf deutsch... 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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