Remove that axe-throwing, bleed-stacking, teleporting bleeder with no CC bars whatsoever from Convergences.

[Tarreth.8914]

Definition of unfun.

Made it once in like over 2 dozen attempts forced upon me by the game. Zojja has no chance of survival with this guy.

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

For anyone not aware, this is referring to Umbriel, Halberd of House Aurkus. Arguably the most difficult Convergence boss, public runs can fail fairly often if players ignore the mechanics, or die to the conditions causing them to lose their healing stacks.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Well, good players simply don't bother with convergences. 

The only real reason to do them is legendary armor and good players either have all 3 already or can get it easier and faster via Raids. 

Also, convergences have always been such clown fiestas. No thanks. 

Seeing one squad after another where 45/50 people do abysmal dps while believing them being bad is not the problem. 

We have builds that need like 2-3 buttons that do over 25k dps. And this doesn't even factor in stuff like potion/sigil of demon slaying and all the other extra dps buffs. 

Powercreep is INSANE right now but no, 5k dps andys complain that a boss puts a condition on them. 

Edited July 16 by DanAlcedo.3281

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Tarreth.8914 said:

Made it once in like over 2 dozen attempts forced upon me by the game. Zojja has no chance of survival with this guy.

Not really, try moving out of orange/red circles and heal zojja.

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

he’s not that difficult. Sure, the first encounter might be shocking, but then you just defeat him like any of the others. They all are quite annoying, especially Hell Sista, but failure is mostly due to an incredibly bad instance, usually filled with players who are AFK or not performing well.

[thestillwinter.9486]

This only happens to me when 90% of your maps raid chills around playing dead instead of porting back and walking. People are disgustingly lazy in every aspect of life.

[Cyninja.2954]

If memory servers me right, I ended my 100th convergence (at 102 now, haven't touched this content in months) with around 9 fails, around 15 private convergences, 85 public, all 5 CMs done gold.

After completing the version 2 obsidian armor I had 0 reason to continue doing convergences (that and I had around 25k T1 essence left over anyway).

That said, here is what I learned in those months running the content:

1. enter convergences early, later ones more often than not where the critical ones

2. bring a proper build ideally a boon support build yourself with as much cc as possible depending on the boss, otherwise bring condi cleanse

3. the majority of players in this content are typical open world players (in short: absolutely incompetent on horrible builds with the attention span and reflexes of dead cats). I'm pretty sure this has not improved by now with many veteran players eventually phasing out of the content or simply going for private squads

Umbriel Halberd of House Aurkus is a perfectly doable fight IF at least a few players bring support skills and the majority of players pay attention and MOVE out of big obvious numbered circle, so in essence not doable by many public groups.

Looking forward to open world raids. I'm sure those will fare far better when experienced veteran players run this content as raids which will deprive the open world version of even more carrying players.😏

TL;DR:

If you want to reduce stress with convergences, join private squads and stop running the lowest effort public versions.

Edited July 16 by Cyninja.2954

[Supernova Starr.2069]

1 hour ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

If you want to reduce stress with convergences, join private squads and stop running the lowest effort public versions.

Private squads are failing as well, reason why I and a bunch of the playbase don't touch this piece of content anymore, too much Karens and NPCs leeching

I'm so glad I could run CMs and get the achiev on day one of cm's

If anet does not adress issues that make this content unplayable, JW convergence will be doa. And I'm not saying convergences need nerfs.

[Solvar.7953]

The problem with all public content (raids, world bosses, convergences, map metas) is that players have very little control who they are playing with.

While mechanics may not be hard, or getting a high DPS build quite doable for any player, I can not force (nor even verify) if other players in the public map/instance I'm in meet those qualifications.

Determining exactly how difficult any of this content should be is hard.  But if too hard, it likely leads to a vicious circle - the good players will just form private squads or skip the content (why waste their time if they can do something as a squad that they know they can succeed on vs who knows what will happen in the public map), leaving the gap for those still trying to do it even greater.

I've personally stopped doing some of that content - I'd like to think that I'm at least on OK player (pay attention to build and tactics), but not worth my time to spend 30 minutes on something to end up failing.  I do think Anet needs to rethink what open world content is supposed to be, as I otherwise think a lot of this new content will become dead very quickly.

And for me, that also means I'm less sure about buying future expansions.  Why buy them when the content has a 1 month shelf life before it is dead?

 

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

Who would have thought prolonging the most crucial phase to feed the rat is such a good design? /s

Must be the same person who thought blowing up all the players carrying orbs to feed the rat at 1% is funny. Yes the AI is funny, I've seen Umbriel stacking all of his frilly circles near/on top of Zojja and blowing the rat up along with all the players at 1% more often than the number of people wearing bikini armor. 

[Tarreth.8914]

On 7/16/2024 at 10:51 AM, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Well, good players simply don't bother with convergences. 

You must be very fun at parties.

If all you want to say is basically "I don't play it lol" then your input is VERY helpful. See yourself out.

 

Guys, it's not the issue of "5k Andys" unless I only meet them in public ones. Sure, private convergences may look different, but private is private.

[Cyninja.2954]

3 hours ago, Tarreth.8914 said:

Guys, it's not the issue of "5k Andys" unless I only meet them in public ones. Sure, private convergences may look different, but private is private.

but that is the issue, literally.

Minimum effort players. As success rates drop, more invested players will move to private squads, which makes success rates drop even more, which.... you get the point.

What's the difference in private squads? First off it's already more effort to join, minimal but more investment. Second is the ability to actually kick low performing players. Doesn't happen often because usually the performance will be okay-ish or passable as long as there are enough decent-good players to cover the slack. Third is more organization from the get go. Commanders might setup subgroups, split players to different islands, ask for specific boon supports, etc.

Simply put, the 3 main reasons why public convergences fail are:

1- insufficient boon supports to cover enough players. Lacking boons is a HUGE loss to squad dps.

2. bad game play, slow reactions, poor personal builds, low amount of utility (lumping all of this together because it all means the same thing: unprepared players)

3. afk players

So considering points 1 and 2, this leads to a lot of "5k Andys" in publics, unless they are afk which puts them at 0k dps.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

it probably doesn't help that the game basically doesn't make any effort to inform players on what a good build is. it starts with small things, like tooltips not properly reflecting trait changes, and then moves on to big, lacking quality of life features--such as how other games have a build flow chart so you can see exactly how everything is being affected by your choices, rather than spending hours researching on the wiki and forums to see if something actually works as suggested.

 

even the meta builds didn't just magically appear in a vacuum, as experienced players ran questionable builds for a significant portion of the game's lifetime until raids came around and we realised that alot of decisions being made just weren't very good ones (yes, our dungeon days included).

 

i think alot of this also comes down to playing the user interface, too, since that's how all builds are made and tested, (and its just not very good either).

 

honestly, unless players are specifically going out of their way to find build sites, discords, youtube videos and so on, they're probably going to be doing about 5k dps no matter what, and its always going to be that way unless the game starts trying to teach them to do better, because the majority of players don't access outside resources. i feel like the big irony here is that arenanet seems to balance the game around the benchmarks of meta builds, yet not one of these builds is included by default in-game; or even anything close to one of these builds in terms of baseline (auto-attacking or spamming all skills off-cooldown) performance.

 

oh yeah, and maybe they shouldn't have repeatedly nerfed open-world so many times. i'm pretty sure i have more difficulty in the bath tub these days.

Edited July 22 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Teknomancer.4895]

OK I'll bite...what does "andy" mean in this context? Clearly it's nothing complimentary, but beyond that?

[Dark Red Killian.3946]

Odd, did this boss twice in a row today in public. One group it was so so, but we managed to get the kill. Second group obliterated it. With 50 people it really is a mix and a gamble who you are getting, who performs poorly, who afks, etc. my advise, play a build you do really well, bring good damage, survivability, but most of all, learn the mechanics. Every down makes you lose orbs, which is essential for clearing. I bring my quick dps scrapper almost everytime. Has high survivability, superspeed, gives quickness, stability, protection to players, and I can range rez people. On top of that, doing decent damage to help kill the boss. Not all builds probably work the best. This is end game content, it is not for beginners for sure.

[andreiblue.8231]

On 7/16/2024 at 11:04 AM, Tarreth.8914 said:

Definition of unfun.

Made it once in like over 2 dozen attempts forced upon me by the game. Zojja has no chance of survival with this guy.

What I dont understand is why they made the cc phase at the ending instead of beggining. You only cc so that he can finally move to another place on the map. It could at least be at the beginning to give Umbriel an exposed debuff (which should last long considering you have to cc multiple targets)

[Kozumi.5816]

On 7/16/2024 at 4:04 AM, Tarreth.8914 said:

Definition of unfun.

Made it once in like over 2 dozen attempts forced upon me by the game. Zojja has no chance of survival with this guy.

He is the best boss, the wyvern is literally zombie mode.

Stack on him to avoid axes, dodge the big numbered aoes, turn away from gazes.

He is a fantastic boss, we need more like him. He encourages playing healers and supports, and makes it so you need to pay attention.

Why do people like brain off loot pinatas? I play a video game to be mentally challenged, not to turn my brain off.

[andreiblue.8231]

50 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

He is the best boss, the wyvern is literally zombie mode.

Stack on him to avoid axes, dodge the big numbered aoes, turn away from gazes.

He is a fantastic boss, we need more like him. He encourages playing healers and supports, and makes it so you need to pay attention.

Why do people like brain off loot pinatas? I play a video game to be mentally challenged, not to turn my brain off.

This is why CMs are a thing, normal mode should be easier. Also you dont take in account that this is a form of OW content where you always get to choose who is in the map with you

[Kozumi.5816]

16 minutes ago, andreiblue.8231 said:

This is why CMs are a thing, normal mode should be easier. Also you dont take in account that this is a form of OW content where you always get to choose who is in the map with you

This boss is not a CM, he is normal mode.

This boss has a very low fail rate, but it's high enough that the boss isn't literal zombie mode status.

People really need to stop trying to turn every video game into a mindless auto-battler.

Edited July 24 by Kozumi.5816

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

13 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

This boss is not a CM, he is normal mode.

This boss has a very low fail rate, but it's high enough that the boss isn't literal zombie mode status.

People really need to stop trying to turn every video game into a mindless auto-battler.

Again, if you love action so much, why not do CM? This is the problem I have with "omg u sux more fail rate pls" people, there's literally content designed specifically for you people yet you choose to not do it, and instead you vent it out on open world players. I don't see any of you managed to beat legendary Cerus yet anyway. 

For Umbriel itself, the only problem with it is the CC phase before the 25% heal phase. That's where it fails the most, especially the transition between the 3rd and 4th phase when balls are the most scarce, yet Zojja has to wait an eternity before Umbriel drops balls again. This also happens at the end of the final phase, where supposed successes turned into failures because Zojja couldn't wait for the Clone/CC phase to finish.

Removing the clones and CC would bring Umbriel back in line with how other bosses work, or if they still love that mechanic so much then make it happen at the start of a new phase instead of the end.

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

Again, if you love action so much, why not do CM? This is the problem I have with "omg u sux more fail rate pls" people, there's literally content designed specifically for you people yet you choose to not do it, and instead you vent it out on open world players. I don't see any of you managed to beat legendary Cerus yet anyway. 

For Umbriel itself, the only problem with it is the CC phase before the 25% heal phase. That's where it fails the most, especially the transition between the 3rd and 4th phase when balls are the most scarce, yet Zojja has to wait an eternity before Umbriel drops balls again. This also happens at the end of the final phase, where supposed successes turned into failures because Zojja couldn't wait for the Clone/CC phase to finish.

Removing the clones and CC would bring Umbriel back in line with how other bosses work, or if they still love that mechanic so much then make it happen at the start of a new phase instead of the end.

Pugs are succeeding in completing this content, the fact that it has a possibility to fail when people don't do the mechanics is hardly a bad thing for anyone other than the "I deserve the rewards because I did hit the boss!" crowd.

Yeah, removing mechanics would sure improve the success rate, I doubt it's a mystery in need of uncovering for anyone. But removing mechanics is stupid and defies the point of playing the game. Speaking of "this is the problem with x people" take you brought up: there are games made around looking at increasing numbers with no possibility to fail, how about you try one of those instead. Or, you know, basically go follow the world boss trains if mechanics being able to fail when they're not being done is such an issue. But maybe you're not doing that because you're after the essences? Well, in that case rifts are still a thing and will remain being a thing. So what exactly is the issue you're trying to "solve" here?

Edited July 25 by Sobx.1758

[Kozumi.5816]

7 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

Again, if you love action so much, why not do CM? This is the problem I have with "omg u sux more fail rate pls" people, there's literally content designed specifically for you people yet you choose to not do it, and instead you vent it out on open world players. I don't see any of you managed to beat legendary Cerus yet anyway. 

For Umbriel itself, the only problem with it is the CC phase before the 25% heal phase. That's where it fails the most, especially the transition between the 3rd and 4th phase when balls are the most scarce, yet Zojja has to wait an eternity before Umbriel drops balls again. This also happens at the end of the final phase, where supposed successes turned into failures because Zojja couldn't wait for the Clone/CC phase to finish.

Removing the clones and CC would bring Umbriel back in line with how other bosses work, or if they still love that mechanic so much then make it happen at the start of a new phase instead of the end.

I shouldn't have to do CMs to get interactive game play out of my video game.

Stop advocating for mindless zombie mode auto-battlers.

I have yet to fail this boss.

Edited July 25 by Kozumi.5816

[andreiblue.8231]

20 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

I shouldn't have to do CMs to get interactive game play out of my video game.

Stop advocating for mindless zombie mode auto-battlers.

I have yet to fail this boss.

Did you do it with randos or premade squad from lfg? There's a difference.

[Sobx.1758]

35 minutes ago, andreiblue.8231 said:

Did you do it with randos or premade squad from lfg? There's a difference.

I think you mean "private squad" -as in opened by a commander- which in reality also consists of "randos from lfg", it just usually involves better squad structure. One way or another: both pugs and "private" pug squads complete those.

Edited July 26 by Sobx.1758

[Firebeard.1746]

On 7/16/2024 at 1:51 AM, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Well, good players simply don't bother with convergences. 

The only real reason to do them is legendary armor and good players either have all 3 already or can get it easier and faster via Raids. 

Also, convergences have always been such clown fiestas. No thanks. 

Seeing one squad after another where 45/50 people do abysmal dps while believing them being bad is not the problem. 

We have builds that need like 2-3 buttons that do over 25k dps. And this doesn't even factor in stuff like potion/sigil of demon slaying and all the other extra dps buffs. 

Powercreep is INSANE right now but no, 5k dps andys complain that a boss puts a condition on them. 

Well good players will have fewer reasons to do them in Janthir with them upping the difficulty lol. They're counting on us using the power creep and doubling down on it. Sure make a game with 40 different stat combinations but only make the glass cannon builds viable (with some sprinkled support here and there). What could go wrong? Heaven help you if you love soldier's gear. 

Edited July 27 by Firebeard.1746