can we get more Mobile Sieges in WvW from the Expansion please

[Knighthonor.4061]

would like to see more expansion themed content in WvW. EoD was a missed opportunity here with all the cool tech and new golems. Hopefully we can take some inspiration from this expansion and add some of the themes as new content and features for WvW. New Mobile Sieges would be a big start here. 

[Ashen.2907]

Hmm, Howitzers towed behind Warclaws?

[Mystflower.7319]

Siege turtles? 

[Quench.7091]

It might be difficult to come up with different mobile siege weapons, in terms of siege which are designed to attack walls and gates. Right now we have dune rollers and golems that cover that aspect. However, I do think that we could possibly use mobile siege for attacking other siege. Right now things like ballista are really limited, as they aren't allowed to move to where they are best suited to at a given moment, causing things like flagpoles to be their nemesis.

Another thing to note is that mobile doesn't necessarily mean that it needs to be able to run and gun. It can also be a redeployable stationary weapon. Weapons that can be picked back up and then placed back down without having to rebuild them. We don't have any of those at the moment!

[loonatic.1689]

8 hours ago, Mystflower.7319 said:

Siege turtles? 

????

CMON ANET DO IT. WHAT ARE THEY EVEN FOR. 

[joneirikb.7506]

I would rather that they focus on making our existing siege work and have proper roles and get used. Otherwise all they're really doing is throwing more broken toys on top of a pile of broken toys, I guess the saying is lipstick on a pig? It would probably include things like removing various abilities from siege, like all the defensive ones, to focus those on the shield generator. And a bunch of other changes to make each siege do their one role well without infringing on others.

If they do that however, find a role for each siege, make it do that role well enough that all siege has a use in normal play. Then I wouldn't mind them coming up with a new mobile siege (or something else really) that somehow fit into this and filled a role the existing siege didn't already fill, without invalidating existing siege. That will get more and more difficult the more siege you add to the pile however (standard design space bloat). But just adding more for the sake of adding more, tends to just produce slop.

[XenesisII.1540]

With the current direction of wvw it'll probably be better to just remove gates from objectives. 🤷‍♂️

[Sheff.4851]

10 minutes ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

I would rather that they focus on making our existing siege work and have proper roles and get used. Otherwise all they're really doing is throwing more broken toys on top of a pile of broken toys, I guess the saying is lipstick on a pig? It would probably include things like removing various abilities from siege, like all the defensive ones, to focus those on the shield generator. And a bunch of other changes to make each siege do their one role well without infringing on others.

If they do that however, find a role for each siege, make it do that role well enough that all siege has a use in normal play. Then I wouldn't mind them coming up with a new mobile siege (or something else really) that somehow fit into this and filled a role the existing siege didn't already fill, without invalidating existing siege. That will get more and more difficult the more siege you add to the pile however (standard design space bloat). But just adding more for the sake of adding more, tends to just produce slop.

What are the issues with existing siege? They all feel reasonably specialized.

Rams are for when you want to get into a gate.
Catapults are for when you want to get into a wall.
Golems are for when you just want to get in as fast as possible.
Trebuchets are for when you need to destroy attacking siege from inside of an objective, or, when you need to attack an objective without getting attacked yourself.
Ballistas as for specialized, targeted siege destruction.
Arrow carts are for damage and pressure in close quarters fights.
Shield generators are for people who can read.

 

[Leaa.2943]

I think we all remember the absolute disaster with portable cannons right? We dont need more siege, we need them to work on what we already have and fix that.

[XenesisII.1540]

24 minutes ago, Leaa.2943 said:

I think we all remember the absolute disaster with portable cannons right? We dont need more siege, we need them to work on what we already have and fix that.

I'd take those portable cannons right now for their boon strips. But knowing anet they would finally nerf the strips off cannons a week later. 🤷‍♂️

Edited July 26 by XenesisII.1540

[Junkpile.7439]

Can we get new engineer spec called artilery. It could work like artillerys in world of tanks. Engineer could be in spawn and land some 20k aoe hits other side of map.

[XenesisII.1540]

1 minute ago, Junkpile.7439 said:

Can we get new engineer spec called artilery. It could work like artillerys in world of tanks. Engineer could be in spawn and land some 20k aoe hits other side of map.

Always thought it might be cool to build the eotm supercannon in the keeps. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Supercannon

[coro.3176]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_tower

[Sheff.4851]

6 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Always thought it might be cool to build the eotm supercannon in the keeps. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Supercannon

Wouldn't this just make it easier to knock down defending gates and walls, making defense even harder than it is already? Some giant cannon, sitting protected in a keep, constantly papering other objectives on the map?

[kash.9213]

It's been rare enough for a while to get a good rolling fight going that's actually fun and not a quick blow out. Whenever there's a nice silently agreed upon back and forward fight somewhere, the moment someone drops siege down is when that whole vibe turns sour. Siege equipment and sieging itself needs to be designed to be the semi persistent battle again and not just a resource and time sink to ping a part of the map to draw aggro or to knock out dailies and weeklies. 

I would love to have connectivity to the rest of the game and the expansions, but that should be in the form of our daily puttering around and wandering (which would be a source of fights and activity) but I'm a broken record on that point and WvW is still just a basic island away from the rest of the game. 

[XenesisII.1540]

17 minutes ago, Sheff.4851 said:

Wouldn't this just make it easier to knock down defending gates and walls, making defense even harder than it is already? Some giant cannon, sitting protected in a keep, constantly papering other objectives on the map?

I call that motivation to cap that keep and destroy it, think that would work better than 80 points. 🤭

Kinda like going after that annoying treb sitting in swt hitting bay. 🤷‍♂️

Edited July 26 by XenesisII.1540

[Sheff.4851]

2 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

I call that motivation to cap that keep and destroy it, think that would work better than 80 points. 🤭

Mmm. Given how many people are already frustrated with the state of defense in the game, I think it would just drive them to quit. I don't think the groups focused on defending T3 keeps, and the groups focused on attacking T3 keeps, are the same groups of players very often.

You'd have 5-10 defenders in a keep begging some boonball to come over and cap the objective with the cannons, while enemy boonballs walk in and out of your keep forever because supply wouldn't generate fast enough to keep up with the super cannon punching holes in the wall over and over.

To say nothing of the BM that you could use the cannon for, by shelling random solo players and duelers just minding their own business.

[XenesisII.1540]

4 minutes ago, Sheff.4851 said:

while enemy boonballs walk in and out of your keep forever because supply wouldn't generate fast enough

Yeah that already happens. 🤷‍♂️

The value of the cannon would be no different than a waypoint. Attackers are happy with their current break in speeds, the current noodle strength of siege, and defenders are not, so we'll leave it at that. But let's not take this seriously, I said it might be cool, we could go over how strong it should or shouldn't be, what affects it might have on the map, but it's not something anet would pursue so a null topic to begin with.

[Sheff.4851]

3 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Yeah that already happens. 🤷‍♂️

The value of the cannon would be no different than a waypoint. Attackers are happy with their current break in speeds, the current noodle strength of siege, and defenders are not, so we'll leave it at that. But let's not take this seriously, I said it might be cool, we could go over how strong it should or shouldn't be, what affects it might have on the map, but it's not something anet would pursue so a null topic to begin with.

Ah, I thought you were serious about adding the cannon. My bad. Sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet, and I only really like to post constructively, so I didn't pick up on it.

[Mindwhip.8057]

3 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said:

What are the issues with existing siege? They all feel reasonably specialized.

Rams are for when you want to get into a gate.
Catapults are for when you want to get into a wall.
Golems are for when you just want to get in as fast as possible.
Trebuchets are for when you need to destroy attacking siege from inside of an objective, or, when you need to attack an objective without getting attacked yourself.
Ballistas as for specialized, targeted siege destruction.
Arrow carts are for damage and pressure in close quarters fights.
Shield generators are for people who can read.

 

AC's don't do any damage anymore. The zerg's just laugh at you and pull you off the wall from miles away.

Balli's can't be aimed downward, and are blocked by your own wall crenelations, so are limited on what they can shoot.

Shield Gen's and Catapult Shields don't stop AC nor Barrage damage from getting through.

Part of the problem is that attacking siege can be placed in super efficient spots like up close at the ne corner of Quinton Lake tower and very few pieces of siege inside the walls can help you defend it.

The siege disabler was supposed to be unblockable and is still blocked by shields and profession bubbles, so you can't even spend supply to help reduce incoming damage.

There are many problems with siege equipment.

[XenesisII.1540]

20 minutes ago, Mindwhip.8057 said:

Shield Gen's and Catapult Shields don't stop AC nor Barrage damage from getting through.

Just to note shield gen's can block ac fire with shield gen mastery 5.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_Experience#Shield_Generator_Mastery

P.S I do think ballista's should have a better siege shot 3 that's unblockable. 🤷‍♂️

Edited July 26 by XenesisII.1540

[joneirikb.7506]

4 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said:

What are the issues with existing siege? They all feel reasonably specialized.

Rams are for when you want to get into a gate.
Catapults are for when you want to get into a wall.
Golems are for when you just want to get in as fast as possible.
Trebuchets are for when you need to destroy attacking siege from inside of an objective, or, when you need to attack an objective without getting attacked yourself.
Ballistas as for specialized, targeted siege destruction.
Arrow carts are for damage and pressure in close quarters fights.
Shield generators are for people who can read.

 

There are some siege I haven't seen used in a while, and with the recent changes there might be some changes from what I've been used to.

* But I honestly haven't seen much anything than Catapults the last few years.
* I see some big zergs still use rams on gates, but even smaller zergs or anything small scale, just throw up a bunch of catas against a wall somewhere, preferably where they can go through 2 walls on a keep.
* AC's doesn't even tickle
* Haven't seen many use Ballista in ages and when they do it hasn't done much and hard to hit anything with practically has to be flash built.
* Up until before the supply change I only saw Trebs with afkers with coins holding down the fire button, might see it more now up close to walls.
* I don't remember the last time I saw a shield generator, so I guess that says something about the literacy levels of the people I've played with and against...
* I had almost forgotten about Golems, see one now and then, but mostly it's just one of my guildies that keeps shouting that he wants a good old fashioned golem rush again.

Generally what I see is catas against walls, usually very close. Other attackers suppressing people on walls, and no siege able to hit the catas. And very little other siege used. I won't claim to be a master siege user myself, but I haven't really seen much others use most of them either. It's to the point that my guild consider most non-cata siege to only be useful for throwing on other people.

[Sobx.1758]

No, but you can use mobile golems.

[Mindwhip.8057]

4 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Just to note shield gen's can block ac fire with shield gen mastery 5.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_Experience#Shield_Generator_Mastery

I stand corrected on Shield Gen's specifically, but Catapult Shields still don't work. Also, that page shows this caveat too...

Shield generators can't put domes on other shield generators, and domes can't destroy unblockable projectiles.

[Sheff.4851]

45 minutes ago, Mindwhip.8057 said:

AC's don't do any damage anymore. The zerg's just laugh at you and pull you off the wall from miles away.

Balli's can't be aimed downward, and are blocked by your own wall crenelations, so are limited on what they can shoot.

Shield Gen's and Catapult Shields don't stop AC nor Barrage damage from getting through.

Part of the problem is that attacking siege can be placed in super efficient spots like up close at the ne corner of Quinton Lake tower and very few pieces of siege inside the walls can help you defend it.

The siege disabler was supposed to be unblockable and is still blocked by shields and profession bubbles, so you can't even spend supply to help reduce incoming damage.

There are many problems with siege equipment.

These are limitations, not problems. No single siege engine should be able to do everything. For spots that a ballista can't hit with direct line of sight, you can use a trebuchet for arcing fire. For zergs, you can use banners, or additional players, instead of just building another AC.