Willbender Need NERF in Pvp

[Vancho.8750]

3 minutes ago, Kuya.6495 said:

Why would you nerf gankers with staff spellbreakers and druids running around?

Those kitteners need nerf too if you nerf the gankers so we can get more bruisers in the game, problem here is I don't know how what to touch without ejecting the whole profession of the game. Some bug fixes on FC on Spellbreaker will probably give more time for the vulnerability phase., probably needs little bit more squize on healing on staff so it tunnels more in Heal power . Druid was supposed to be going in the support role but every time lands on sidenoder tank, I don't play Druid much these days you should probably ask @Trevor Boyer.6524 what is too OP on druid, since I can only tell from the receiver end that I don't like getting dazed for days till the pet kills me cause it does harder hits then me (but thats general we forgot the coefficients when we nerfed everything).

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Mostly cause you have to pre plan on Willbender with your team and sometimes they have to bail you out when the plan goes wrong and Rev and Thief can wing it so its one less person to worry about, while in the queues where there is no Voice chat the AoE damage that it deals, shreds.
I think it needs some cooldown increases here and there and something about the defenses so the gank builds are squisher , but that kind goes for all gank builds not just Willbender , like I need some time frame of vulnerability where you can punch a ganker for failing instead of watching them reset and make a do over. 

That is the issue right there, put way better than I could. Vindi is meta, and could use some dmg reductions, but on a mechanical level it is FAR better to fight than WB, since you can CC/trade blows with vindi if you time it right, at any time while it tries to lay down its dps, and that really matters. With WB you just know kitten well you are not part of the fight until renew>f3 is used, which is absolute bs, the WB earns the front foot in almost every fight, regardless of how bad he plays, just becuase he picked WB? Na. That is why there are 20 WB for every 1 vindi/herlad.. and yet we all know there is nothing wrong with vindi damage, so what gives?

 

SPB in its own role is like WB, and I agree what you said in a later post, there is not enough windows to attack the SPB, and mostly that is FC. However, I also find SPBs dmg/mobility to be too good, considering its suppose to be a duelist. It has mobility than can rival roam specs, which is hilarious creep. That mobility is also pretty oppresive to most "duel" specs that are condi, which typically come with lower mobility. SPB is suffering none of the traditional downsides of being tanky, which is just stupid, and game breaking to spec rep of other duelist builds.

 

The thing is, even if they fix SPB there are a number of specs that are just as toxic that could fill its role. Bunker virts are still rediculously hard to kill, and will just waste your time, and mace rangers are a difficult/impposible 1v1 if played well, vs many specs. Also, DH has some pretty horrible tank specs, useless in damage, but they just won't die.. for doing nothing much to achieve it.

 

All these specs need to be dealt with one way or the other, so that other specs in the given roles might actually see some light of day and compete somewhere near "viable" levels. I am so fking tired and bored now of 80% games being reaper/wb-dh/spb.. and then thief +1s. Its lame, not fun, predictable, stale.

 

Or maybe people need to stop giving a fk about rank in a game where you achieve plat by farming low golds? And actually play some specs that are fun/not toxic af.. its a choice.

Edited August 4 by Flowki.7194

[Saiyan.1704]

On 8/1/2024 at 11:40 AM, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

Nerf resistance and stability across the board. Those two boons promote braindead gameplay

Why nerf stability when a Thief + Necro can already delete multiple stacks of Stability on Guard anyways?

I run F3 stab AND Stand Your Ground... Every few games, i'll come across a thief/necro plat duo who don't care how many stacks of Stab I have. They wave their hand and POOF it's gone.

[Vancho.8750]

10 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

That is the issue right there, put way better than I could. Vindi is meta, and could use some dmg reductions, but on a mechanical level it is FAR better to fight than WB, since you can CC/trade blows with vindi if you time it right, at any time while it tries to lay down its dps, and that really matters. With WB you just know kitten well you are not part of the fight until renew>f3 is used, which is absolute bs, the WB earns the front foot in almost every fight, regardless of how bad he plays, just becuase he picked WB? Na. That is why there are 20 WB for every 1 vindi/herlad.. and yet we all know there is nothing wrong with vindi damage, so what gives?

 

SPB in its own role is like WB, and I agree what you said in a later post, there is not enough windows to attack the SPB, and mostly that is FC. However, I also find SPBs dmg/mobility to be too good, considering its suppose to be a duelist. It has mobility than can rival roam specs, which is hilarious creep. That mobility is also pretty oppresive to most "duel" specs that are condi, which typically come with lower mobility. SPB is suffering none of the traditional downsides of being tanky, which is just stupid, and game breaking to spec rep of other duelist builds.

 

The thing is, even if they fix SPB there are a number of specs that are just as toxic that could fill its role. Bunker virts are still rediculously hard to kill, and will just waste your time, and mace rangers are a difficult kill if played well. Also, DH has some pretty horrible tank specs, useless in damage, but they just won't die.. for doing nothing much to achieve it.

 

All these specs need to be dealt with one way or the other, so that other specs in the given roles might actually see some light of day and compete somewhere near "viable" levels. I am so fking tired and bored now of 80% games being reaper/wb-dh/spb.. and then thief +1s. Its lame, not fun, predictable, stale.

 

Or maybe people need to stop giving a fk about rank in a game where you achieve plat by farming low golds? And actually play some specs that are fun/not toxic af.. its a choice.

The current meta is made Rigid since as you said these professions are stop gaps to really unfun power creep. Mobility was given cause they gave everything else was given too much and kitten devolves in gank squads and the sidenoder is made useless or a three tank that sits on the node and does nothing but that since your slow kitten will get decaped if you move, which is kittening boring for everyone involved. And since everyone is tanky and mobile everyone on the sidenode has to have a way to survive surprises all the time and you get more tanks. Warrior, Thief and Necro are cooked cause they don't have any fall back build spec or whatever and can only do their designated role and if they are worse than something else that usually can do multiple things they get benched for a year till the third balance pass. Other professions can do multiple kitten because of their kit, like Vindicator currently and devour roles and you get that kitten like Catalyst 5 man teams of the same profession that roll everything. So we have Everything professions cause someone at Anet plays that and specialized professions that do one thing and the  moment they are not the top dog, kitten gets stupid. 
Anet just needs more small balance patches in between the big ones , but they don't have that time cause I bet they are working on the new skills while balancing and they are like 3 people doing that and won't get more help cause the gem store is more important and has 50 people working on it or something, Its quite Impressive that 3 people are managing to give the minimal variety we have now, but they should at least get more people on board to make at least every specialization a place in all modes instead of one per profession.

Its really huge problem since the game needs variety to keep things fresh (even though I play builds from 10 years ago and don't change, but it would be nice to not delete my kitten, like I really liked Axe Choppy Berserker in PVE for years, but then they kittened it and removed the cool factors and ease of use and like all the monkey brains I rolled Bladesworn to one shot kitten, even though its so clunky.).

Another issue is that when nerfs happen the old top builds get deleted and now you can't play it, and have to deal with something stupid till the next balance patch, I really, Really hated the Egg timer meta, cause you wait for 30 seconds for people go through their defenses to do any damage, which I currently don't have with Reapers and Warriors, and I get little bit jumpy when someone says nerf this or that, cause its always worse somehow when the nerfs come. 

[Flowki.7194]

27 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

The current meta is made Rigid since as you said these professions are stop gaps to really unfun power creep. Mobility was given cause they gave everything else was given too much and kitten devolves in gank squads and the sidenoder is made useless or a three tank that sits on the node and does nothing but that since your slow kitten will get decaped if you move, which is kittening boring for everyone involved. And since everyone is tanky and mobile everyone on the sidenode has to have a way to survive surprises all the time and you get more tanks. Warrior, Thief and Necro are cooked cause they don't have any fall back build spec or whatever and can only do their designated role and if they are worse than something else that usually can do multiple things they get benched for a year till the third balance pass. Other professions can do multiple kitten because of their kit, like Vindicator currently and devour roles and you get that kitten like Catalyst 5 man teams of the same profession that roll everything. So we have Everything professions cause someone at Anet plays that and specialized professions that do one thing and the  moment they are not the top dog, kitten gets stupid. 
Anet just needs more small balance patches in between the big ones , but they don't have that time cause I bet they are working on the new skills while balancing and they are like 3 people doing that and won't get more help cause the gem store is more important and has 50 people working on it or something, Its quite Impressive that 3 people are managing to give the minimal variety we have now, but they should at least get more people on board to make at least every specialization a place in all modes instead of one per profession.

Its really huge problem since the game needs variety to keep things fresh (even though I play builds from 10 years ago and don't change, but it would be nice to not delete my kitten, like I really liked Axe Choppy Berserker in PVE for years, but then they kittened it and removed the cool factors and ease of use and like all the monkey brains I rolled Bladesworn to one shot kitten, even though its so clunky.).

Another issue is that when nerfs happen the old top builds get deleted and now you can't play it, and have to deal with something stupid till the next balance patch, I really, Really hated the Egg timer meta, cause you wait for 30 seconds for people go through their defenses to do any damage, which I currently don't have with Reapers and Warriors, and I get little bit jumpy when someone says nerf this or that, cause its always worse somehow when the nerfs come. 

 

By looking at what Anet were nerfing/buffing since cata meta, it was very obvious sPVP was moving toward representation domination of warrior/necro/gaurd, I even said that back then, and now here it is. It is a delusional playerbase to think lower risk/effort specs doing as well as higher risk/effort specs will do anything other than reduce spec diversity, which it has. So basically, if you don't like to play warrior/necro/gaurd A: Don't bother with sPVP, or B: play a spec that is more risky/difficult and thus less rewarding for more risk/difficulty? Sounds cool. I litterally don't play power LB-GS untamed (which I'd like to) becuase I know how fking kitten and frustrating it is going to be going up against the "chosen ones" AKA, the FOTM warrior/necro/gaurds that don't get punished for 5 straight mistakes in a row, or aweful jump timings, why bother?

 

The direction of the game was crystal clear when they gave rangers those maces, yet another reason not to bother with something like traditional power untamed. I still don't know how those maces got shipped in that state, and how it took ranger mains so fking long to figure out how rediculously casual/bloated they were.

Edited August 4 by Flowki.7194

[Vancho.8750]

15 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

 

By looking at what Anet were nerfing/buffing since cata meta, it was very obvious sPVP was moving toward representation domination of warrior/necro/gaurd, I even said that back then, and now here it is. It is a delusional playerbase to think lower risk/effort specs doing as well as higher risk/effort specs will do anything other than reduce spec diversity, which it has. So basically, if you don't like to play warrior/necro/gaurd A: Don't bother with sPVP, or B: play a spec that is more risky/difficult and thus less rewarding for more risk/difficulty? Sounds cool. I litterally don't play power LB-GS untamed (which I'd like to) becuase I know how fking kitten and frustrating it is going to be going up against the "chosen ones" AKA, the FOTM warrior/necro/gaurds that don't get punished for 5 straight mistakes in a row, or aweful jump timings, why bother?

 

The direction of the game was crystal clear when they gave rangers those maces, yet another reason not to bother with something like traditional power untamed. I still don't know how those maces got shipped in that state, and how it took ranger mains so fking long to figure out how rediculously casual/bloated they were.

See I don't like the Idea that some profession are easier then others, yes the ones you suggest are easier to start with but the mechanical skill caps out at some point and something that looks complicated like Catalyst ends up easier to play then Warrior since it has answer for situations and the easier mechanical spec will need outside gameplay wisdom to even land hits vs someone with similar mechanical on the 'harder' profession, cause everyone knows your tricks at that point. All the builds you mention are not self reliant and require Meta knowledge learned by doing, the thief needs the Warrior and Necro to start the fight both need the thief to finish the fight and all of them can't really move away from their designated position, while something with more mechanics can fill more roles at one time. So in the end you don't get easy/hard professions you get specialized and multipurpose professions. In the end of the day necro only has 5 less buttons to press then elementalist, but doesn't have big answer when it gets dogpiled on while the ele does. 
My big complaint about necro is that it has been the only teamfighter that is fair for everyone involved since you everyone can interact with its mechanic, while the rest of the attempts at teamfight specs end up in egg timers, the component of surviving and managing your way of survival does not get interaction from the opponent, you get a block or invuln or dodge and we play the dance till there is no more skills to click, while on necro you can stop their power move by cc and all the time gathering the LF is wasted so you get some push and pull in the fight.
 

[Flowki.7194]

25 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

See I don't like the Idea that some profession are easier then others, yes the ones you suggest are easier to start with but the mechanical skill caps out at some point and something that looks complicated like Catalyst ends up easier to play then Warrior since it has answer for situations and the easier mechanical spec will need outside gameplay wisdom to even land hits vs someone with similar mechanical on the 'harder' profession, cause everyone knows your tricks at that point. All the builds you mention are not self reliant and require Meta knowledge learned by doing, the thief needs the Warrior and Necro to start the fight both need the thief to finish the fight and all of them can't really move away from their designated position, while something with more mechanics can fill more roles at one time. So in the end you don't get easy/hard professions you get specialized and multipurpose professions. In the end of the day necro only has 5 less buttons to press then elementalist, but doesn't have big answer when it gets dogpiled on while the ele does. 
My big complaint about necro is that it has been the only teamfighter that is fair for everyone involved since you everyone can interact with its mechanic, while the rest of the attempts at teamfight specs end up in egg timers, the component of surviving and managing your way of survival does not get interaction from the opponent, you get a block or invuln or dodge and we play the dance till there is no more skills to click, while on necro you can stop their power move by cc and all the time gathering the LF is wasted so you get some push and pull in the fight.
 

 

Im not going to get into that debate, the spec representations say it all. Cata, herald, holo, vindi, untamed (even current mace), all specs of that nature were vastly underrepresented back then, and now.. yet warrior in some itteration, gaurd in some itteration, and necro in some itteration, have increasingly made up more and more of the avg game representation as more and more of the higher skill floor/effort specs got nerfed down, to the pooint of now, specific fotm specs, reaper-WB-DH-SPB.. >70% representation. All of these specs are on the lower end of effort or risk within their given role, but thats just a coincidence I guess.

 

 

I was playing an off meta vindi build tonight, with mal over shiro (don't ask). Anguish is another kite option along with GS/advance, and even with that, I was only just able to shake off a try hard SPB who developed a "thing" for me. Picure that, a roamer being rather succesfully chased all over the map by a fking duelist.

Edited August 4 by Flowki.7194

[Vancho.8750]

7 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

 

Im not going to get into that debate, the spec representations say it all. Cata, herald, holo, vindi, untamed (even current mace), all specs of that nature were vastly underrepresented back then, and now.. yet warrior in some itteration, gaurd in some itteration, and necro in some itteration, have increasingly made up more and more of the avg game representation as more and more of the higher skill floor/effort specs got nerfed down, to the pooint of now, specific fotm specs, reaper-WB-DH-SPB.. >70% representation. All of these specs are on the lower end of effort or risk within their given role, but thats just a coincidence I guess.

 

Well warrior was offline for like 2 years and from 2020  and kinda not very good even before that, Berserker was fully offline from 2017 so representation is an iffy subject considering that all of the specs are perfectly functional. My theory is that EOD specs when not Overperforming are not exactly fun to play since they are kinda clunky. As for Herald, well Vidicator does the same thing PVP with better defenses so people pick it over herald, cause it carries Shiro better.
Also the older population tells the newer population to start with war, necro, guard and people just stick with it, cause they have spent allot of time developing skills with them and quite frankly are more fun to play then most of the other professions for people  that prefer to engage directly in the fight. Considering the previous Meta people were playing only gank specs I think that people just got bored of it and returned to the Teamfight/sidenoder/ ganker balanced teams instead of the zerg teleport comp.

[Flowki.7194]

32 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Well warrior was offline for like 2 years and from 2020  and kinda not very good even before that, Berserker was fully offline from 2017 so representation is an iffy subject considering that all of the specs are perfectly functional. My theory is that EOD specs when not Overperforming are not exactly fun to play since they are kinda clunky. As for Herald, well Vidicator does the same thing PVP with better defenses so people pick it over herald, cause it carries Shiro better.
Also the older population tells the newer population to start with war, necro, guard and people just stick with it, cause they have spent allot of time developing skills with them and quite frankly are more fun to play then most of the other professions for people  that prefer to engage directly in the fight. Considering the previous Meta people were playing only gank specs I think that people just got bored of it and returned to the Teamfight/sidenoder/ ganker balanced teams instead of the zerg teleport comp.

Thats not true over the last two or three year that I played. Warrior always had a spec that was way over performing for its effort, and always well represented even if it wasnt meta; blade, Czerk, spb. I played them all in that time, and deleted warrior after I realised Anet just buff numbers on it, so it will be a spec that can hold out 1v2 for not much effort, like blade/spb, or it will be a spec that does eye watering damage for a few buttons, like cZerk and even meme rifle zerk. Yes, rifle zerk is paper thin, but that doesn't mean 100-0 unblockables are suddenly good mechancis.

 

Why do you think people often reccomend necro/gaurd/warrior?

Edited August 4 by Flowki.7194

[Last Crab.6054]

Is willbender pressing on the vinicators?

If so, leave alone.

[Flowki.7194]

1 minute ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

Is willbender pressing on the vinicators?

If so, leave alone.

If you think WB meta will be better than vindi meta you are absolutely delusional. There are currently 20>1 WBs for vindis.. and WB isnt even meta. Its pretty fking clear WB is putting down damage more reliably for the average player than vindi.. or they would be playing vindi. Or are you really going to say this isn't a fotm playerbase? Go on, I dare you.

[Last Crab.6054]

Just now, Flowki.7194 said:

If you think WB meta will be better than vindi meta you are absolutely delusional. There are currently 20>1 WBs for vindis.. and WB isnt even meta. Its pretty fking clear WB is putting down damage more reliably for the average player than vindi.. or they would be playing vindi. Or are you really going to say this isn't a fotm playerbase? Go on, I dare you.

So, they are pressing vindis.

Noice

[Flowki.7194]

24 minutes ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

So, they are pressing vindis.

Noice

The only thing WBs are  pressing is another attack to get blocks button.

 

-edit, another game full of reaper, gaurd, warrior. 15 Qs as vindi, and seen 1 other vindi... if anything I would say its vindis pressing  the over rep of WBs.. how ironic 😜 

Edited August 4 by Flowki.7194

[Kuya.6495]

3 thieves in today's WAT finals and 1 dh. 

Nerf wb

[Sereath.1428]

😂

Why do you people think that DH or WB got or get nerfed faster than Vindicator or whatever rev spec? Especially comparing DH with Longbow vs Vindicator with Hammer.
Skill floor is very important in design. AKA difficulty. Yes, it is a very real thing.

Most of the population had problems with both DH and WB, especially DH at the time. And still do.
You can't have something so easy to pick up and with a high potential, otherwise people farm each other hard at all skill levels. Which equals players leaving potentially forever. (And the general consensus is that the game is way too fast.)
And they should have the numbers for the play rates. If only we could see them, as some of you are dense af.

Buff WB? sure, equally buff Power Herald too.

You do you sPvP player base, keep cannibalising each other with imaginary roles problems.
"Oh man, the balance is almost great! Just nerf this thing I dont like kitten that player that humillated me that time when using x spec."
"Wtf, this balance is so bad! Literally worse than 5 catas per team."
"Im so tired of this class and its infinite energy, 15 jumps and 15 dodges."
"No MAT rEprEsentAtion though??? AKA buff my kitten and nerf all the clown specs that the french used last mat. This balance is kittening awful."

Spoiler

Edit:
Still, simply nerf Death Drop and Hammer #4.

Edited August 4 by Sereath.1428

[Vancho.8750]

37 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Thats not true over the last two or three year that I played. Warrior always had a spec that was way over performing for its effort, and always well represented even if it wasnt meta; blade, Czerk, spb. I played them all in that time, and deleted warrior after I realised Anet just buff numbers on it, so it will be a spec that can hold out 1v2 for not much effort, like blade/spb, or it will be a spec that does eye watering damage for a few buttons, like cZerk and even meme rifle zerk. Yes, rifle zerk is paper thin, but that doesn't mean 100-0 unblockables are suddenly good mechancis.

 

Why do you think people often reccomend necro/gaurd/warrior?

Yes and before you started playing Warrior was kitten cause it had one job and couldn't do it well. Rifle is a meme, you are better of playing something that does the same without going full glass like DH or DE, maybe LB ranger. 
As for why they are picked, generally necro and guard cover allot of builds in PVE/PVP and WvW and the rest of the professions are kinda niche on how they work, necro translates well from other games cause it doesn't have blocks and defensives just HP management and the whole dark wizard/warlock edge thing going on, and guardian is the paladin that can heal, 'tank' and do damage, as for warrior well its the default pick for people that don't ask what to play every game has warrior archetype so yes people are boring and pick Human Male Warrior and after they have leveled up they notice that its quite niche in its roles in PVP/WVW and PVE but they are already invested, ele and thief are kind the same with some weird superiority complex about the Wizard/Rogue archetype  being superior to the rest cause "magic" and "stealth" from other games but people might drop them when they don't get the same experience they expect from the wizard/rogue. Ranger is most likely picked up like warrior for the Pew Pew and pets, but it is also has some stigma from other games cause usually its considered the class for the more inept people, the Bear/Bow memes didn't help the GW2 ranger much. As for Rev, Mesmer and Engi they are just weird quite off road for most people and kinda have weirder leveling experience and kinda need to hit 80 to unlock the full profession.
Yes we all crave the familiar things we are all boring. 

[Arken.3725]

This post is hilarious.  Based on the mAT, any team with a Guardian got decimated.  In fact, there was a 4v5 where the team with 5 had 2 guardians(DH and FB) and they LOST.  Guardian is trash now in all facets.  It might be decent in Gold but make no mistake, the mAT(which is where the best players play) showed us how bad Guardian currently is.  It has no optimal Support build and no optimal DPS build.  

This cannot be contested based on facts represented by the mAT.  Keep crying dude and count how many other classes were not only represented but successful.  

[Flowki.7194]

40 minutes ago, Arken.3725 said:

This post is hilarious.  Based on the mAT, any team with a Guardian got decimated.  In fact, there was a 4v5 where the team with 5 had 2 guardians(DH and FB) and they LOST.  Guardian is trash now in all facets.  It might be decent in Gold but make no mistake, the mAT(which is where the best players play) showed us how bad Guardian currently is.  It has no optimal Support build and no optimal DPS build.  

This cannot be contested based on facts represented by the mAT.  Keep crying dude and count how many other classes were not only represented but successful.  

The actual <realistic> sPVP meta is very clearly reaper-wb/dh-SPB-DDthief.. and golds are like 3/4 of the playerbase, so ignore those players at the perel of the games survival. High level mat representation reflects sPVP in no way what so ever, completely different settings. Skill floor matters more in sPVP, skill ceiling matters more in MATs, in terms of balance/true meta. WB-thief are harder than reaper sure, but they are crutched on lower risk mechanics than other roamers, which effectively lowers the skill floor. If any WB/thief wants to contest that, go and play herald for a month.

Edited August 4 by Flowki.7194

[Kuya.6495]

And there are builds that are represented in both ranked and MATs such as spellbreaker, DD/Specter/Deadeye and harb/reaper. 

So why complain about a build that only matters in ranked when you have builds that are better in every scenario?

Edited August 5 by Kuya.6495

[bq pd.2148]

On 8/3/2024 at 4:23 PM, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Shout heal condi core warrior with warhorn, thats the healing you get, not many others that can out heal that. You rarely see this though since everyone goes SPB.

And yes, warrior healing is pretty insane, but you can also see that his boons actually wear off and he has to reapply them constantly via warhorn.

For the Willbender the boon uptime for all major buffs was so high that by the time they were refreshed, you had 20 seconds of boon uptime left.

Protection, resistance, swiftness, 10 stacks of might and regeneration never wore off throughout the entire fight. On top of this they generated fury, stability vigor, alac, aegis and quickness throughout the entire fight.

the boons on them or not is all just nice fluff, at the end you both facetanked each other and nothing happened.
thats the difficulty for creating 'this is OP please nerf' videos, if the fight is not onesided, one would question why there needs to be a nerf and if it is onesided outside of direct build counters, its pretty much always due to mistakes by the losing player.
 

On 8/3/2024 at 4:23 PM, WingSwipe.3084 said:

If any other profession could do that, they would have been nerfed for the next 10 "balance" patches in a row. Im also 100% sure this and the blob fights is why boon rip/corrupt got nerfed so hard, cant have anything that could fight their precious Willbenders.

in WvW specifically they are not the only ones with so many boons up all the time. and the reason boon rips are nerfed is most likely due to their disruptive nature.

On 8/3/2024 at 4:23 PM, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Also quite curious how both of you rolled in during the same time frame with the same arguments.

talent

[Saiyan.1704]

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

The actual <realistic> sPVP meta is very clearly reaper-wb/dh-SPB-DDthief.. and golds are like 3/4 of the playerbase, so ignore those players at the perel of the games survival.

Have you looked up the players making these QQ posts? Gold 2, Gold 3, and certainly anything above Plat 1, are not making forum posts about "OP Willbenders" in pvp.

Why are we entertaining this and every other thread that was made by a low-skilled player, who can't even win unranked games?

[Shagie.7612]

willbender gatekeeps everything non-meta just as hard as DE does, it just also gets clobbered by the actual meta builds like DE so nobody cares lol

[Arken.3725]

1 hour ago, Shagie.7612 said:

willbender gatekeeps everything non-meta just as hard as DE does, it just also gets clobbered by the actual meta builds like DE so nobody cares lol

Problem is, DE was actually successful in meta-play.  Once again, show me a successful team with any Guardians attached.  

Dude, I wasn't kidding earlier when I said a team with 5 players(2 Guardians) lost to a team with 4 players......This is just sad my man.

[Shagie.7612]

43 minutes ago, Arken.3725 said:

Problem is, DE was actually successful in meta-play.  Once again, show me a successful team with any Guardians attached.  

That's not what I'm saying though. Yes, Willbender hasn't been in coordinated play for a while now. 

I'm saying, try playing something like PZerk into Willbender. It does slightly less damage than you (if you build for damage, considerably more if you sacrifice that for the ability to survive) but has you beat in practically every other aspect of buildcraft with no real trade offs, comparatively.
The same thing is true for a LOT of other non-meta builds. You are irrelevant in multiple roles because of the biggest gatekeepers.

It's also not something that's fixable because it's an issue of elite features being powercreeped, but it's something that nobody particularly cares about exactly because it's not in ATs.

also, because it's funny:
a 4 guard team showed up in EU and won at least one match with it, so by the power of math that cancels out the 4v5 loss
or something like that

Edited August 5 by Shagie.7612

[Myror.7521]

Huh? Willbender is not even close a problem. It is only a problem when you do not know how to play against it .... which is a (gues what) player skill issue and not a "this is OP" issue. 

Also to answer @Flowki.7194 u know why necr/warr/guard are played by worse Players (well most of the time). Simply cause they are easy to learn how to get played. This does not mean that they are easy to master tho (since they are pretty telegraphed and skill Limited *cough* warr is melee only *cough* they are fairly easy to counter play at least when you know how)