Spear News! Range?

[Lionwait.4815]

Revenant

Revenant spear aimed to be a heavy weapon that built up strength, culminating in powerful damage. However, in the beta we saw that this weight was unwieldy and its punches lacked impact. Casting times are being decreased across many skills, and we are increasing the condition variety of the skills to help its damage stick.

Crushing Abyss’s maximum stacks has been reduced from 5 to 3, making the weapon reach its maximum potential a lot faster. Abyssal Blot will now pull immediately, helping the weapon set itself up better. The result of these changes is a more fluid weapon with more tools to secure its damage.

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Why doesn't it say anything about range increases? One of the main dev's said on the life stream that there will be a range increase. So, what is the dealyo?

[Shagie.7612]

They said it was a possibility, something they were already considering in case 600 is too short.

They never said it was 100% happening.

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

They'll probably increase it to 900u range in a patch following the expac release .... but also nerf short bow to being a melee weapon so something dumb.

Like our poor mace that was proving to be too good of a support weapon with karakosa, so it got destroyed in the SAME patch they added a icd to karakosa so the whole thing was unnecessary. Just so we'd use their piece of kitten on a stick. Dwayna forbid we have unique options when it comes to playstyle.

 

[Jobber.6348]

5 hours ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

They'll probably increase it to 900u range in a patch following the expac release .... but also nerf short bow to being a melee weapon so something dumb.

Like our poor mace that was proving to be too good of a support weapon with karakosa, so it got destroyed in the SAME patch they added a icd to karakosa so the whole thing was unnecessary. Just so we'd use their piece of kitten on a stick. Dwayna forbid we have unique options when it comes to playstyle.

Worse case scenario, they just hard nerf Shortbow for NO REASON. 

Best case scenario, they "rework" some clunky part of Shortbow that hopefully actually helps it out (like maybe having the Shortbow 1 have quicker projetile speed, Shortbow 2 not being random shots that potentially miss their target altogether but a quick 3 shot straight at a target etc) 

Really crossing my fingers that nothing changes at all but we'll see. 

[Buran.3796]

They are probably evaluating the option of shaving short bow's range to 450 to make spear look legit...

[Lionwait.4815]

It's just so disappointing to me out of all the things they change range would have been first on my list. I rather have the slow cast speeds and low dmg and get more range. As for comparing with the short bow. Who cares.... Don't make that a limiting aspect to what they can do with the weapon.

Because I am getting confused emotes, I best explain myself. From a PvE & PvP the range doesn't matter as much as WvW. From a WvW perspective 600 range is a death wish when facing a zerg. 

Yes, it doesn't matter if I'm in a boon ball meta zerg vs zerg fight but to me that is boring as can be. Does that make thing less confusing?

 

Edited August 12 by Lionwait.4815
Getting to many confused emotes

[zallesz.1650]

On 8/11/2024 at 5:22 PM, Jobber.6348 said:

Shortbow 2 not being random shots that potentially miss their target altogether

They tried to fix that since PoF, never managed to. If mesmer had a weapon skill that missed 50% of the time it would be fixed within a week. 

[Angesombre.4630]

8 hours ago, zallesz.1650 said:

They tried to fix that since PoF, never managed to. If mesmer had a weapon skill that missed 50% of the time it would be fixed within a week. 

Not just Mesmer, Guard or Ranger.

[Jeyzer.1605]

On 8/17/2024 at 7:05 AM, zallesz.1650 said:

If mesmer had a weapon skill that missed 50% of the time it would be fixed within a week. 

Funny you say that because Mesmer's GS#2 Bouncing Blade randomly loses up to 2/3 of its damage by bouncing between allies instead of enemy->ally->enemy.  It's been the case since forever and that has never been fixed. 

[Malus.2184]

On 8/11/2024 at 10:30 AM, Lionwait.4815 said:

Revenant

Revenant spear aimed to be a heavy weapon that built up strength, culminating in powerful damage. However, in the beta we saw that this weight was unwieldy and its punches lacked impact. Casting times are being decreased across many skills, and we are increasing the condition variety of the skills to help its damage stick.

Crushing Abyss’s maximum stacks has been reduced from 5 to 3, making the weapon reach its maximum potential a lot faster. Abyssal Blot will now pull immediately, helping the weapon set itself up better. The result of these changes is a more fluid weapon with more tools to secure its damage.

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Why doesn't it say anything about range increases? One of the main dev's said on the life stream that there will be a range increase. So, what is the dealyo?

The range is still 600 and none of the changes actually make the spear fun to use, neither are they that functional since Skill 3 requires you to yeet yourself out of the group to work, which when the mechanics of the game heavily require Boons is quite bad in group content. If your target is stationary it does nothing so, in competitive it's utterly useless if the opponent also has something ranged.

The 1 still has the same issue as it did in Beta in that it's the same skill repeated over and over again with other animations. Etc, etc.

The mechanical changes are nowhere near enough to salvage this crapcatular piece of equipment. It's still a joke in whatever mode you play in even if the numbers are better..

The Rev spear needs a complete mechanical rework and that needs to start with ANet deciding whether the spear should be a competitor to Mace/Axe or Shortbow. Because right now it tries to be a middle-ground between them both and fails horribly at any of them. If you need a melee then Mace/Axe is the objectively superior weapon and if you need a ranged weapon then the Shortbow is the objectively superior choice, and since you can swap weapons you can get them both. Rev also has nothing to pair the spear with so, it needs to be able to replace either to have a function.

The Spear is an inferior Mace/Axe as well as an inferior Shortbow. I can just take them both since whichever set I switch will end up being replaced with an inferior version of itself.

Edited August 20 by Malus.2184

[Vennyhedgie.5369]

God I just... I can't with this weapon. It's so horrid. I was trying it against one of those gryphon champions and between how much they move and how much enemies like to spam blinds and weakness in this expansion so far this stick is just useless

[Elric.4713]

It seems like they just refuse to give Revenant another real ranged weapon, first they made scepter melee and now they kept spear at pitiful 600 range.

[Malus.2184]

7 hours ago, Elric.4713 said:

It seems like they just refuse to give Revenant another real ranged weapon, first they made scepter melee and now they kept spear at pitiful 600 range.

Rev has two, one for Power (Hammer) and one for Condi (Shortbow). It has no need for anymore. What it does need is an alternative to melee Condi damage as there's currently only one setup for that in the Mace/Axe. If you look at Power the Rev has the options of Sword/Sword and Greatsword. To create parity Condi needs another melee option. 

Edited August 21 by Malus.2184

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

2 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

To create parity Condi needs another melee option.

Then be an inch away from the mob if you want and pretend its a melee weapon. Why do you want another restraint on the weapon? It's not like Anet has ever balanced the game so that melee weapons do more damage than ranged weapons. There's literally no downside to the weapon being ranged. 

Also why can't there be 2 ranged options to switch between in a fight that doesn't favor being in direct melee. I'd love a second ranged power weapon too since hammer is more utility than it is dps. 

[Shagie.7612]

4 minutes ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

Then be an inch away from the mob if you want and pretend its a melee weapon. Why do you want another restraint on the weapon? It's not like Anet has ever balanced the game so that melee weapons do more damage than ranged weapons. There's literally no downside to the weapon being ranged. 

I think, for the people who were wanting another condi melee, it's more that it would also be an alternative to mace/shield in PvP/WvW too, and have some significant manner of defensives.

Because your current options, for condi builds, are to go staff and delete ALL momentum you have whenever you need to survive, or mace/shield, which is not that great feeling without the Herald trait that makes shield skills cleanse.

That's what I wanted out of it, anyways. 😕

 

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

1 hour ago, Shagie.7612 said:

I think, for the people who were wanting another condi melee, it's more that it would also be an alternative to mace/shield in PvP/WvW too, and have some significant manner of defensives.

I mean yeah I get that. I wish the 3 skill was a better defensive skill. A short evade, slow moving mobility skill that spawns delayed soft cc is pretty trash. Would have much preferred a block, blink, or just further distance in the same time on skill 3 for simplicity.
 

However if I got to design my own defensive option for skill 3, I’d lean into the kiting ability that spear has. I’d steal the scourge’s portal utility and animation. However it’s only for you. Use the swirly red/black “ink” textures they made and use it for the swirling portal, add some text about diving into the inky abyss to fit the theme. Make it 600 range ground target. Add the tiniest of evades during staring animation of sinking into the ground. Creates pulse of damage that slows/weakens/chills when you emerge. Have the capability to use the portal back a single time (would trigger the emerge damage again). Bam done. Can make full use of the Omni-directional skills that spear has while closing or creating gaps while having options for big plays or mind games… is it too much power creep for a single weapon skill? Probably, but it hasn’t stopped them before.

Edited August 21 by UncreativeGreen.2019

[draxynnic.3719]

5 hours ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

Then be an inch away from the mob if you want and pretend its a melee weapon. Why do you want another restraint on the weapon? It's not like Anet has ever balanced the game so that melee weapons do more damage than ranged weapons. There's literally no downside to the weapon being ranged. 

Also why can't there be 2 ranged options to switch between in a fight that doesn't favor being in direct melee. I'd love a second ranged power weapon too since hammer is more utility than it is dps. 

They do, but sometimes what you get when you take a melee weapon is more survivability or mobility rather than more damage, and for some professions, all of the melee weapons are more oriented towards increasing survivability rather than damage. The weapons that facilitate sitting at long range dealing full damage usually do all but nothing but damage, while melee weapons that might otherwise be suited to the build are either nonexistent or loaded with defence and mobility instead of damage.

Edited August 21 by draxynnic.3719

[Twilightmage.8309]

I wanted another ranged weapon and go this garbage

[Jobber.6348]

On 8/21/2024 at 7:40 AM, Elric.4713 said:

It seems like they just refuse to give Revenant another real ranged weapon, first they made scepter melee and now they kept spear at pitiful 600 range.

More reasons that support my observation that Spear was tailored to be an extension of Mallyx. 

Mallyx's most effective range of influence is up to 600 range and it has very oppressive CC via CTA in combination with Spear 4. In fact, Spear 4 or CTA helps Mallyx keep enemies within the range of the mines and further oppresses the target so that Spear 5 can have all the time in the world to land and overwhelm the target. My favourite thing against Thieves and Willbenders was to Spear 3 dodge then immediately CTA on the mines and then lay Spear 4 and start Spear 5 mashing. 

So far I've played many games of sPvP and also went roaming in WvW, and Spear just feels the best to use on Mallyx which is an aggressive Legend to begin with and has the tools to back up that aggressiveness. Playing Spear with the Cele Renegade build feels pretty bad and I found myself stuck on Shortbow alot more and playing it with Vindicator Cele build felt poor without Mallyx's aggressive 600 range leap and 400 range pull. 

I will still experiment further though. I used it in sPvP alongside Greatsword as a Power Core and was quite thankful that the 600 range allowed me to stay out of Necro circles and whittle them down. Definitely a welcome addition to the kit as the cover conditions like Chill and Weakness mess with melee builds quite abit. 

Edited August 22 by Jobber.6348

[Oldyoung.6109]

Haven't had any trouble in PvE after some practice but the 600 range is totally insufficient for PvP(mainly WvW) keep getting poked from way out of range with a pitiful lack of gap closers unless i swap to shiro at which point why am i using a condi weapon?

but the worst part of spear is how short the crushing darkness buff is any blind or weird dodge in PvE can lose you your stacks or the current bug where some enemies will run away invulnerable for no apparent reason it sucks but is overall playable; but of course in PvP this is compounded into near unuseability it should be 12 seconds at a minimum.

also on the tooltip it says you gain a stack of crushing darkness per enemy hit up to the cap but the cap is always 1 so why is any of that taking up UI space? not really a gameplay issue but wtf?

[Frozey.8513]

I really like the 600 range on spear and I'm having ton of fun with it. I fundamentally try to use it as melee weapon that just happens to have a lot of extra reach, so perhaps it might not be as fun for the people who try to view it primarily as ranged weapon, where always staying on the edge of max range might be problematic on 600 cap. That being said from melee to close-range perspective spear feels just amazing. 😄

[arazoth.7290]

4 hours ago, Frozey.8513 said:

I really like the 600 range on spear and I'm having ton of fun with it. I fundamentally try to use it as melee weapon that just happens to have a lot of extra reach, so perhaps it might not be as fun for the people who try to view it primarily as ranged weapon, where always staying on the edge of max range might be problematic on 600 cap. That being said from melee to close-range perspective spear feels just amazing. 😄

The only skill that's really hits enemies at 600 is spear skill 2.

auto is 900, skill 4 end of the aoe circle is around is 900-930'ish, skill 5 end of the aoe circle is around 700-750'ish.