Dragon's End Meta failing

[Dean Calaway.9718]

3 minutes ago, Katary.7096 said:

I can simply semi afk a meta event until the boss gets very close to dying, then I jump in on a highly bursty DPS build and perform my opener on the boss, claming one of the top spots among the DPS builds and I will get full loot with minimal participation. Additionally I will be pushing another player, who presumably did more for the event's success than me, out of the group of players who get loot.

Tracks the total damage during the event Einstein.

4 minutes ago, Katary.7096 said:

In a meta event group in which the top DPS player has 40K DPS at the end of the event, with everyone else falling somewhere in the 10K-20K range, a player with 10.200 DPS is going to get no loot while someone who finished with 11.900 DPS can get the same amount of loot that the 40K DPS player receives.

Moot point.

5 minutes ago, Katary.7096 said:

Halfway through a meta event boss fight a DPS player takes note of the fact that he/ she is currently among the bottom 10% in DPS. Knowing that the probability of moving up into the top 90% group is small, they decide to leave and do something else with their time

And nothing of value would be lost.

[Rallicus.8367]

Dragon's End has already been nerfed heavy, and it was fine for a while when there was incentive to do the meta (when Antique Summoning Stones were worth more than 1g). The fact of the matter is that it really offers nothing for time invested, so the groups you're left with are newer players and inexperienced commanders. I beat it at launch pre-nerf through some amazing RNG, did it for my gen 3 leggy skin and didn't touch it again until a few days ago. Failed two days in a row.

What I noticed was that our Commander was serviceable, the DPS was good, the timed sub-boss kills were perfect, but both days we failed the cc check almost every time. This, despite the fact that someone had placed a United Legions Waystation right next to Soo-Won. I'm not sure what to make of it; people were maybe hyper focused on DPS and forgot to cc? It was 100% the reason we failed both times, and despite multiple call outs we continued to fail the check.

They need to have a reason for players to come back to Soo-Won. Eparch, an equally challenging open world fight, offers a lot more in terms of rewards, including a chance at rare infusions if you have the mastery. Give Soo-Won something like that and I think you'd see a lot less fails due to good players coming back at a chance to get that rare drop.

[Cyninja.2954]

3 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Tracks the total damage during the event Einstein.

At which point your are now discouraging ANY player to join late, because after all: the chance of them not getting a reward increases. This would negatively impact a LOT of event chains which rely on players to join later.

Not to mention I know of quite a few veteran players which enjoy "joining in at the last moment" to still get a reward. This change ACTIVELY makes the game worse for EVERYONE.

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Moot point.

Explaining and giving reason as to why rewards are handed out or not IS essential for players to understand and accept the result. You might consider it moot, but that only shows your limited understanding on good game design.

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And nothing of value would be lost.

Really, what about if they decide to afk instead of moving away?

What type of limited niche elitist bs opinion are you peddling here? I mean I am all for rewarding players which put in the work, but this is just pure bs and a really bad take. To not realize this yourself is hilariously misguided.

All of the desired effect could be achieved with giving players a simple notification, similar top pvp, where their performance in the meta is displayed for them to see.

Be a grown man/women and just take the L for this terrible idea.

Edited August 18 by Cyninja.2954

[Katary.7096]

4 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Tracks the total damage during the event Einstein.

"The" event? As in the last event in the chain of events that makes up the map meta? Or do you mean the whole thing from the start of the first pre-event until the very end? For multi-stage metas is performance tracked on a per event basis or collectively across the whole thing?

4 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Moot point.

That might be the case for you. I prefer a system in which increased performance grants access to greater rewards.

4 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

And nothing of value would be lost.

Quite right.
So what happens to the cascading effects of the lowest performance players leaving and creating new lowest performance players which in turn are incentivized to leave and then make more players drop into the lowest performance group?

[Dean Calaway.9718]

4 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

This change ACTIVELY makes the game worse for EVERYONE.

No, speak for yourself, it only deals away with........

4 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

I know of quite a few veteran players which enjoy "joining in at the last moment" to still get a reward.

THAT. It deals away with that. No more leeching of the work of others coming in when the curtains are closing just so you can land your 3 hits for a gold medal and full rewards. This is why the leyline anomaly is great, either you're there and on it or you missed it and get nothing.

4 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

but that only shows your limited understanding on good game design.

Perhaps you're unaware of games that only hand out loot on last hit yet still boast a larger players base than GW2.

4 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Really, what about if they decide to afk instead of moving away?

They don't get any loot, the people that did the work are no worse for wear.

4 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

What type of limited niche elitist bs opinion are you peddling here?

The ones you just saw.

4 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

I mean I am all for rewarding players which put in the work, but this is just pure bs and a really bad take.

So you say.

4 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

All of the desired effect could be achieved with giving players a simple notification, similar top pvp, where their performance in the meta is displayed for them to see.

And after all that complaining, you agree 💛

4 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

take the L for this terrible idea

No.

2 hours ago, Katary.7096 said:

For multi-stage metas is performance tracked on a per event basis or collectively across the whole thing?

Per stage.

2 hours ago, Katary.7096 said:

So what happens to the cascading effects of the lowest performance players leaving and creating new lowest performance players which in turn are incentivized to leave and then make more players drop into the lowest performance group?

Let me rephrase this for you:

In our wild and wooly universe there are games that only grant loot in the last hit, that means, it doesn't matter who hit it first, or who did the most damage, only the last hit gets rewarded, and wouldn't you know, the craziest thing those games actually attract a larger player base than our beloved game here, so denying loot is hardly the straw that'd break the camel's back.

Compared to that, all top 90% of players getting loot is mighty generous.

Realistically low performing players wouldn't consistently get in the bottom 10% they'd rotate between getting some and getting none and the ones that would be consistently at the bottom there's their wake-up call since that game never tells anyone how poorly they're doing. This would be a great opportunity to introduce a built in DPS meter too that would track boon application and healing.

[Tsakhi.8124]

On 8/14/2024 at 11:10 PM, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

It helps to git gud.  I don't mean that as an insult.  The average player does 1/10 the damage of what a profession can realistically benchmark.  In a zerg of 50 players, 10 of them are carrying half the damage.  If you want success, it helps to be one of those 

Deleted. 

 

Edited August 24 by Tsakhi.8124
Not sure how to delete the whole thing.

[Cyninja.2954]

21 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

In our wild and wooly universe there are games that only grant loot in the last hit, that means, it doesn't matter who hit it first, or who did the most damage, only the last hit gets rewarded, and wouldn't you know, the craziest thing those games actually attract a larger player base than our beloved game here, so denying loot is hardly the straw that'd break the camel's back.

Compared to that, all top 90% of players getting loot is mighty generous.

Oh please, pretending as though the inclusivity of this game is to blame for its short comings. Yes, there are other games which are more successful and they are so despite their loot systems, not because of them.

You would have been one of the players of old going:"Ya'll listen up, WoW does it wrong. The game has streamlined and removed to many elements which make the struggle in MMORGPs great. WoW needs to change." Right before the game changed the MMO landscape for decades.

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Realistically low performing players wouldn't consistently get in the bottom 10% they'd rotate between getting some and getting none and the ones that would be consistently at the bottom there's their wake-up call since that game never tells anyone how poorly they're doing. This would be a great opportunity to introduce a built in DPS meter too that would track boon application and healing.

You are still peddling this narrative that this would only affect "low performing players" when there have been examples given how this could affect ANY player.

You are the typical individual who is so narrow minded that he can't or doesn't want to see how this would alter the game experience in a negative way because he assumes that this would not affect him. Better go down with the ship and be "right" on the internet than spend 5 minutes reconsidering how an idea is BAD.

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And after all that complaining, you agree 💛

I agreed that one way to encourage improvement was to give players more feedback. Me agreeing on giving players a better ability to judge their performance is not the same as agreeing to your bs idea. This is not some binary "you are with me or against me" argument. Your idea is objectively bad with a ton of effects which would ripple through the entire games design. You being to blind to see that is on you.

Still knowing that this argument is pointless, and you are just trolling, have your 15 seconds. No one cares.

Edited August 18 by Cyninja.2954

[Dean Calaway.9718]

4 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Oh please, pretending as though the inclusivity of this game is to blame for its short comings.

The amount of tilted people get with the mere suggestion of people having to do a bit of work for their rewards is hilarious, "how dare anyone take away MY loot that I earned for just being there with a pulse" right? 😁

6 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

No one cares.

Well, you do, and oof I'd be careful with that, I got a 3 day suspension for saying that to someone once, but you probably don't have to worry, we are equal but some are more equal than others.

[Sobx.1758]

22 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

The amount of tilted people get with the mere suggestion of people having to do a bit of work for their rewards is hilarious, "how dare anyone take away MY loot that I earned for just being there with a pulse" right? 😁

Nobody is getting "tilted" here, people simply explain to you why it's a bad idea that doesn't really target what you claim it does. 🤷‍♂️ 

[Linken.6345]

23 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

The amount of tilted people get with the mere suggestion of people having to do a bit of work for their rewards is hilarious, "how dare anyone take away MY loot that I earned for just being there with a pulse" right? 😁

Well, you do, and oof I'd be careful with that, I got a 3 day suspension for saying that to someone once, but you probably don't have to worry, we are equal but some are more equal than others.

It do not matter how much work they do tho, there will always be the bottom 10% that dont get loot so it is a bad system.

A you have to do this nr of damage, heal or boons would be better but tricky as hell to implement+balance and that is probabely why it havent been.

Atleast then they got a fixed value to strive towards instead if a % based no loot senario that is never ending.

Edited August 18 by Linken.6345

[voltaicbore.8012]

50 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

In our wild and wooly universe there are games that only grant loot in the last hit, that means, it doesn't matter who hit it first, or who did the most damage, only the last hit gets rewarded, and wouldn't you know, the craziest thing those games actually attract a larger player base than our beloved game here, so denying loot is hardly the straw that'd break the camel's back.

Eh this is poor logic. Those games could be doing quite well in spite of the negative drag that is loot-on-last-hit. If GW2 is already doing worse than such games, denying loot might actually make things even worse. The point is, you just made a random association.

I don't even care about your larger point; I accept "git gud" in so many other areas of the game, I wouldn't really mind adding that to the OW meta event system. I just hate seeing weak logic passed off as any form of intelligence. Your argumentation sucks, git gud.

[illuminati.8453]

On 8/14/2024 at 7:10 PM, lummuss.6850 said:

I bought End of the Dragons months ago and only today did I feel motivated and want to go after the Siege Turtle to help the new guys. Then you spend 2 hours on the map waiting for the Meta Event, you do your best to heal and buff people, the commander organizes and explains all the mechanics of the Meta Event, and in the end the event fails because it is absurdly difficult and has too many alt accounts and offline players. This is just a report of my frustration.

Sadly, this falls under the 'abandoned' meta policy.  In fact, a lot of EOD falls under this clause.  You can absolutely tell where Anet decided to just give up on normal development and go onto something else. 

[Worrbinpike.2957]

I'm doing the DE Meta since over a months on a daily basis (EU). It failed one time. I never got disappointed going via LFG. If you see the commander asking for Alac/quickness go to subgroup 2/3, it is mostly guaranteed that it works, when he is doing the 10 supbgroups at start.

Approx a Week ago i've done the meta a couple of times a day (for the Dragon Flight soo Won skin), and it just works. I cant tell that about the Eparch Meta, which frequently fails because of dead people.

In my opinion Soo-Won  is by far one of the best Metas Anet has developed ever. It has good mechanics (meanwhile the tail is ignored), it has an awesome Soundtrack, the speach while the fight goes is also awesome. I'm doing it daily because i think its fun. Of couse no one plays it because of the rewards.

I'm already saddend that obviously Janthir Wilds seems not to have a real Meta on the Maps if it is true what I've seen on youtube on a preview.

 

 

Edited August 19 by Worrbinpike.2957

[Astralporing.1957]

13 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Realistically low performing players wouldn't consistently get in the bottom 10% they'd rotate between getting some and getting none and the ones that would be consistently at the bottom there's their wake-up call since that game never tells anyone how poorly they're doing. This would be a great opportunity to introduce a built in DPS meter too that would track boon application and healing.

No. Realistically (based on how it always works where there's a difficulty threshold to pass), there would be no "wake up call". The message people would get if they consistently (or even inconsistently, but ofteh enough) didn't obtain rewards would be "bad event, better avoid it". Do that to all events, and most players would end up avoiding all events - and thus the game itself. And that would kill the rewards even for the top players, because eventually there just would not be enough people to do the events with.

Trust me, noone will want to do the DE meta (from back to finish,m including the preevents) with just 9 dps and 9 healers.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

22 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The message people would get if they consistently (or even inconsistently, but ofteh enough) didn't obtain rewards would be "bad event, better avoid it".

And nothing of value would be lost.

23 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Do that to all events, and most players would end up avoiding all events - and thus the game itself.

Raiding community says hi, healthy as never before after all the low performing players have been filtered out, they can loom around pulling their hair at the abandoned participation-trophy LFG.

[Dark Red Killian.3946]

Two of the most important things everyone can do in prep for this meta is this: do 10 events before final boss and max out your offensive/defensive buffs from the jade nodes. These will help boost your attack, and if everyone dies this, makes it go a lot smoother.

Also, Learn the bosses attacks and get out of the way of red aoes. Bring crowd control (cc) attacks. Usually there are waystations set up that you can interact with to get a cc attack on your special action key. Always interact with this waystation and get the first skill whenever needed. Icebrood saga mastery is required, I believe for this. Otherwise, bring your heaviest cc skills for your profession.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

And nothing of value would be lost.

Raiding community says hi, healthy as never before after all the low performing players have been filtered out, they can loom around pulling their hair at the abandoned participation-trophy LFG.

Yes it is so healthy that we did not get a new raid wing for 5 years.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

18 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Yes it is so healthy that we did not get a new raid wing for 5 years.

Can't rush perfection.

[Katary.7096]

18 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Let me rephrase this for you:

In our wild and wooly universe there are games that only grant loot in the last hit, that means, it doesn't matter who hit it first, or who did the most damage, only the last hit gets rewarded, and wouldn't you know, the craziest thing those games actually attract a larger player base than our beloved game here, so denying loot is hardly the straw that'd break the camel's back.

I think I can only conclude that we have starkly different views on what motivates the playerbase of this game to engage with its meta event content. And I have little faith that GW2 is going to siphon away the larger audience of a more successful game at this point in time, with or without changes to the way loot is awarded.

18 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Realistically low performing players wouldn't consistently get in the bottom 10% they'd rotate between getting some and getting none and the ones that would be consistently at the bottom there's their wake-up call since that game never tells anyone how poorly they're doing. This would be a great opportunity to introduce a built in DPS meter too that would track boon application and healing.

The game certainly goes out of its way to avoid providing useful feedback to its players. And if your proposed system were to be implemented, the devs would need to take a definitive stance on tools such as DPS meters, either everyone gets them, or no one does.

[Gehenna.3625]

On 8/19/2024 at 11:27 AM, Worrbinpike.2957 said:

I'm already saddend that obviously Janthir Wilds seems not to have a real Meta on the Maps if it is true what I've seen on youtube on a preview.

This is just my opinion, so don't take this for a fact, but I'm thinking that the approach for JaWi might be that each map will get a convergence situated in the same map (or section thereof). So in effect they'd be separating the meta from the explorable map with different instances. But again, that's just what I'm thinking.

Edited August 20 by Gehenna.3625