Heart progress is ridiculously slow

[Tula.6021]

On 9/5/2024 at 8:40 AM, Zok.4956 said:

I do the hearts regularly and it seems to me as if the events in the east of Sintri are now spawning much more often (when it's not meta time) than they did a few days ago. When the thread started, the hearts in Sintri took a lot longer. 

I had the feeling today as well. The plant/meant collect event north of said heart respawned quite quickly today. Did that one twice, the other of the same kind within camp range too and the one within the camp and heart done.

But west is still a problem for me. Couldn't finish it today either, like too many days before.

https://i.ibb.co/6XS3WYx/gw479.jpg

[Mungrul.9358]

One thing I don't see mentioned in this thread and is new to GW2 in general and really disrespectful of the player's time; there are numerous activities related to hearts that have a limit to how many times you can perform them.

The game literally says:
"You have reached your daily training limits with this activity. To continue training, try a different activity."

Now if it were limited to the training rings by the arena, I would understand. But I've just got that message while burning infested plants, itself an activity that seems remarkably stingey on spawns, especially when compared to its direct ancestor in Kourna.

Edited September 6 by Mungrul.9358

[Pifil.5193]

Some of the hearts are pretty tedious, the western and south eastern ones in Janthir especially. There are not enough events in those areas and little or no decent non-event options (the wiki says that killing enemies gives half a percent progress, for example, it sure feels like it).

I'm not sure what they think they gain by making them so slow.

[Will.9785]

The second map is terrible for heart progression.  Adventures don't give tokens of reknown like they should.  Most events don't award them.  The hearts in the south-east and south-west are painfully slow.  The events that count towards the heart are few and far between and give way less participation than the events in the first map.  It literally takes me twice as long to do ONE of the southern hearts in the second map than it does to do all 3 in the first map.  And lord help you if the meta is about to start... that's basically 10 minutes where you can't do much of anything.

Edited September 7 by Will.9785

[Will.9785]

On 9/5/2024 at 12:52 AM, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

I'm kinda shocked they haven't tweaked Syntri.

They were quick to nerf the adventures giving reknown tokens though, weren't they?

[Maria Murtor.7253]

Another problem is that the existing events are not rewarding enough. I did one of the gathering events in Janthir Syntri after just entering the map. I think 15 % heart progression is what I ended with. Fifteen percent. And to be honest: The fact that there are multiple of these events (same with the Elemental events north) paints a bad picture on this map. I can see why people think that Lowland Shore got all the developer's love and Janthir Syntri got the short end of the stick. Yesterday I spotted a "waiting for the good event in Festering Basin" in the LFG for the first time, which says a lot. Same goes with people continuous complaining in map and guild chat about both the southern hearts. Or the hordes of players camping around for mindless gathering events, because that's all there is to the heart. (Which reminds me of an very old radio play cassette about a girl who tried to  organize a scavenger hunt with only one single hint for each station while there were way too many players participating. Didn't turn out so good, when hundreds of people fighting over a piece of paper. Now, we gonna see how 20 Charr pouncing on a poor Moa bird with outstretched claws. And only for a silly reason.)

I did 37 times map completion on both Janthir maps (because that's what I always do). And, yeah. I stick with my opinion: In terms of progression both hearts are the worst hearts in the entire game. They even beat Saidra's Haven and Harvest Cascades (both located in Doric's Lake which have terrible progression as well). And like someone in this topic already pointed out: Killing events during the meta (5 minutes before plus the 15 minutes event time = 20 minutes) is a horrible concept. And just imagine the pain and the entertainment value when watching a streamer struggling for 15 minutes to fill a single heart. If I wasn't involved that much into Guild Wars 2 and would witness something like that, I would have the same feelings like back in the days with Amazon's MMO New World: Boring and grindy stuff, not respecting the player's time.

I love the lore I can find on the map and the achievements tied to them. But I'm not looking forward to ever exploring this map again. Not with hearts like these. I'm highlighting my suggestions I made here, which seem to be well received: 

 

Edited September 7 by Maria Murtor.7253

[Luthan.5236]

I think they are going to to the "or what" option. Since the hearts basically need only to be done for the achievements (permanent one and the repeatable one like ... 9 times the heart for 3 repetitons for more AP) and don't have other things making you do them regularly. (The chest for 3 repetitions is not interesting. At least not yet. And the buff you need to only get once every 24 hours ... from one heart - that is enough. Other important vendor options are unlocked permanently and people probably won't do it just for the bit currency you can buy.)

Should take a look at those chests for 3 repetitions. Doing all 6 for 3 days again yould give you like 6 chests per 3 days, 2 chests per day. Like ... 14 per week. They should explore the option (since this already opens a tab with the vendor using the chests as currency) to add more "interesting" items to buy for more than 1 chest per item.

(Like ... I could see the option to add that rare drop spear skin for lik 250 chests or so. Lol.)

Then ... it might even be okay for the hearts to be heart to do. Without a real reason ... it even seems like ... necessary to be hard so people take longer to max the achievements. (To not finish the "content" too fast. :D)

[Maria Murtor.7253]

I just did two of the gathering events in gold. And this is what I got. You probably need five of these events to fill that heart. It's insane.

https://imgur.com/a/fQNV4ui

[Randulf.7614]

2 hours ago, Maria Murtor.7253 said:

Another problem is that the existing events are not rewarding enough. I did one of the gathering events in Janthir Syntri after just entering the map. I think 15 % heart progression is what I ended with. Fifteen percent. And to be honest: The fact that there are multiple of these events (same with the Elemental events north) paints a bad picture on this map. I can see why people think that Lowland Shore got all the developer's love and Janthir Syntri got the short end of the stick. Yesterday I spotted a "waiting for the good event in Festering Basin" in the LFG for the first time, which says a lot. Same goes with people continuous complaining in map and guild chat about both the southern hearts. Or the hordes of players camping around for mindless gathering events, because that's all there is to the heart. (Which reminds me of an very old radio play cassette about a girl who tried to  organize a scavenger hunt with only one single hint for each station while there were way too many players participating. Didn't turn out so good, when hundreds of people fighting over a piece of paper. Now, we gonna see how 20 Charr pouncing on a poor Moa bird with outstretched claws. And only for a silly reason.)

I did 37 times map completion on both Janthir maps (because that's what I always do). And, yeah. I stick with my opinion: In terms of progression both hearts are the worst hearts in the entire game. They even beat Saidra's Haven and Harvest Cascades (both located in Doric's Lake which have terrible progression as well). And like someone in this topic already pointed out: Killing events during the meta (5 minutes before plus the 15 minutes event time = 20 minutes) is a horrible concept. And just imagine the pain and the entertainment value when watching a streamer struggling for 15 minutes to fill a single heart. If I wasn't involved that much into Guild Wars 2 and would witness something like that, I would have the same feelings like back in the days with Amazon's MMO New World: Boring and grindy stuff, not respecting the player's time.

I love the lore I can find on the map and the achievements tied to them. But I'm not looking forward to ever exploring this map again. Not with hearts like these. I'm highlighting my suggestions I made here, which seem to be well received: 

 

15 mins to fill a heart isn’t really anything bad though and I think there is more a problem with player culture in gaming when a 15 minute session is considered insane grinding. The game should absolutely not be catering to streamers trying to entertain an audience. Not ever. 

Hearts are meant to slow the pace down and if anything, some of the hearts fill far too quickly. I agree there is in an imbalance in that tasks fill too slowly versus the rapid fills of events and events are too unvaried. Those are contributing factors to this malaise. Lowland Shores hearts fill the exact same rate, but people seem rather happy with those in the main. But it’s a better map and so it’s forgiven. And I think that is one of the underlying issues with Syntri

But completing the maps 37 times is another big contributing factor here. The expansion has been out about 3 weeks and that many completions is going to burn out. I haven’t even done full once in each map and I suspect most haven’t done it more than once or twice. It’s going to feel grindy when trying to force through in this way, whereas to me, it fills too quickly.

The devs have tried to strike a balance in slowing the pace (which I don’t think has worked in Syntri given how quickly events spawn and the map experience feels over all too soon) and whilst I think there are definitely some tweaks to be made, I don’t think there’s a some “insane” issue here with hearts to be solved. I think rapid burnout and a weak map compared to Lowland Shores is the underlying issue

[Maria Murtor.7253]

Both southern hearts are weak in comparison to everything we've seen in Lowland Shore. The latter provides you with so many nice options. While Janthir Syntri feels the complete opposite. No events? Go deactivate some mines. That sounds like fun, right? Thing is: It's not considered insane grinding. It simply is. It's doing the same thing over and over and over again: Three gathering events in south-east Janthir Syntri. There's no variation besides what type of beast you slay to harvest meat. When you are lucky the garden event will pop up at some point. And the investigating camp thingy is nice. But … There's nothing to it. These are no interesting events. I know, north is kinda dull with these Elemental events (they are great to fill the heart to be honest). But there are still a bunch of other nice events. And it's way more open, which provides even the chance of finding treasures and more materials to collect. You even have the Leviathan, even though the guy is out of range of the heart. But it's still nice. Because it feels rewarding to be around the northern area. South is just boring in every way possible. And like I said: I'm doing map completion with every character, each expansion. I never seen people complain so much about hearts in a map. The only complain I hear about a heart task here in there is the Ash Legion stuff  in Blazeridge Steppes (repetitive for sure but unique in every way and form).

In the end I agree with the sentiment that Janthir Syntri needs more polish. 

Edited September 7 by Maria Murtor.7253

[Randulf.7614]

1 hour ago, Maria Murtor.7253 said:

Both southern hearts are week in comparison to everything we've seen in Lowland Shore. The latter provides you with so many nice options. While Janthir Syntri feels the complete opposite. No events? Go deactivate some mines. That sounds like fun, right? Thing is: It's not considered insane grinding. It simply is. It's doing the same thing over and over and over again: Three gathering events in south-east Janthir Syntri. There's no variation besides what type of beast you slay to harvest meat. When you are lucky the garden event will pop up at some point. And the investigating camp thingy is nice. But … There's nothing to it. These are no interesting events. I know, north is kinda dull with these Elemental events (they are great to fill the heart to be honest). But there are still a bunch of other nice events. And it's way more open, which provides even the chance of finding treasures and more materials to collect. You even have the Leviathan, even though the guy is out of range of the heart. But it's still nice. Because it feels rewarding to be around the northern area. South is just boring in every way possible. And like I said: I'm doing map completion with every character, each expansion. I never seen people complain so much about hearts in a map. The only complain I hear about a heart task here in there is the Ash Legion stuff  in Blazeridge Steppes (repetitive for sure but unique in every way and form).

In the end I agree with the sentiment that Janthir Syntri needs more polish. 

It just seems like a very different experience to mine, especially given these fill so much quicker than say EoD hearts in Kaineng or LS4 in Istan. Within minutes of stepping into Syntri, I’d done the south eastern heart and the western one I’d done before I’d even reached it. 

I just don’t see the grind unless people are actively ignoring events. Because yes the activities don’t contribute much whilst the events do so very quickly.
Insane grinding to me implies an hour or more to get a heart done. Not 15 minutes or so. So I don’t think it’s a case of “it is”, but just a perception based on the weaker variety. 

[quake.9023]

still no changes to janthir syntri? its soo badly design heart....especially the southwest heart.....its unfinished

[Kulvar.1239]

41 minutes ago, quake.9023 said:

still no changes to janthir syntri? its soo badly design heart....especially the southwest heart.....its unfinished

Nope, still none. The events still are repetitive and barely contributing, other events still don't drop any token.

[Ashantara.8731]

Resumé after finishing the 14 days of doing Heart:

Being rewarded for Repeatable Hearts makes them only slightly less painful to do. It's still an aggravating task that is killing your brain cells. 🥴

It would have been better if only had to finish them once with a daily purchase limit.

Edited September 7 by Ashantara.8731

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

8 hours ago, Luthan.5236 said:

I think they are going to to the "or what" option. Since the hearts basically need only to be done for the achievements (permanent one and the repeatable one like ... 9 times the heart for 3 repetitons for more AP) and don't have other things making you do them regularly. (The chest for 3 repetitions is not interesting. At least not yet. And the buff you need to only get once every 24 hours ... from one heart - that is enough. Other important vendor options are unlocked permanently and people probably won't do it just for the bit currency you can buy.)

Should take a look at those chests for 3 repetitions. Doing all 6 for 3 days again yould give you like 6 chests per 3 days, 2 chests per day. Like ... 14 per week. They should explore the option (since this already opens a tab with the vendor using the chests as currency) to add more "interesting" items to buy for more than 1 chest per item.

(Like ... I could see the option to add that rare drop spear skin for lik 250 chests or so. Lol.)

Then ... it might even be okay for the hearts to be heart to do. Without a real reason ... it even seems like ... necessary to be hard so people take longer to max the achievements. (To not finish the "content" too fast. :D)

"Take longer to max the achievements"? Only if it takes you more than 24 hours to do these hearts. It takes 23 days to max the achievements. The only way to make it last longer is by skipping days and that's something people choose, not something the game decides. I'm sorry, but this line of reasoning falls apart really quickly (unless it was meant as sarcasm).

I do agree that the chests need more interesting items. So far I see no reason to do these hearts again after the first 23 days, unless I'm taking an alt through the maps.

[Randulf.7614]

46 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Resumé after finishing the 14 days of doing Heart:

Being rewarded for Repeatable Hearts makes them only slightly less painful to do. It's still an aggravating task that is killing your brain cells. 🥴

It would have been better if only had to finish them once with a daily purchase limit.

You know the next expansion is a year away and you don’t have to fully complete every heart within the first couple of weeks? They’re designed as goals to work on over time and for alts presumably to feel worthwhile. Since progress is saved, you can return to finish one later.

They're only painful if you force yourself to do them when you don’t want to, but feel you have to do it all now

[Ashantara.8731]

35 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

You know the next expansion is a year away and you don’t have to fully complete every heart within the first couple of weeks? They’re designed as goals to work on over time and for alts presumably to feel worthwhile. Since progress is saved, you can return to finish one later.

They're only painful if you force yourself to do them when you don’t want to, but feel you have to do it all now

Sometimes, you just want to get over with something you find unpleasant to do, so you are forcing yourself to finish up ASAP.

I don't think I would find more joy in the brainless and unfun tasks on Janthir Syntri if I did them only once a week or once a month. I would only forget about them altogether, since events there are no fun nor otherwise worth coming back for.

I am just glad I am done. About ten more achievements and I am gone for good until the next update.

Edited September 7 by Ashantara.8731

[Randulf.7614]

16 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Sometimes, you just want to get over with something unpleasant, so you are forcing yourself to finish up ASAP. 

But, why? - this a game and thus a hobby. If something in a hobby is not fun and as repugnant to doing as apparently is to you, maybe don't do it and avoid feeling embittered towards it. Negatitivity within a game - like any hobby - snowballs and affects feelings towards the rest of the game/hobby.

If I don't like doing something in my recreational time, I might have a little moan, but ultimately I just don't do it. And repeatable Hearts are about as optional as it comes - especially as they auto complete when doing other things

Whilst I think Syntri is a downgrade on the brilliance of everything on Lowland Shores, I'm still having a ton of fun doing stuff. But like any part of GW2 (or any game) I stop doing things I don't enjoy within it. I don't get the idea of forcing yourself to do it. If there's no joy in hearts, don't do them. It should be as simple as that

[Maria Murtor.7253]

I think the topic's discussion is not about how people should or should not play the game, but the pace of the heart tasks.

[Sobx.1758]

It can still take long time to wait for the events at south-east janthir heart if you're unlucky, so that's where I usually use ~2-3 tokens, but the rest of the hearts are fast and easy.

Edited September 7 by Sobx.1758

[Gaiawolf.8261]

2 hours ago, Maria Murtor.7253 said:

I think the topic's discussion is not about how people should or should not play the game, but the pace of the heart tasks.

It seems like the pace of the heart tasks are affecting how people play the game. I don't necessarily have an issue with the overall pace, but the types and pace of some events in Janthir Syntri are affecting what I do with my time in game. I'm simply less motivated to play areas that are not as fun as others. Improvement for the pace and quality of the events in these zones would improve my enjoyment of the zone, and thus the expac as a whole. It's still fun for a little while but could be better.

I have almost zero complaints about Lowland Shore.

[Pifil.5193]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It can still take long time to wait for the events at south-east janthir heart if you're unlucky, so that's where I usually use ~2-3 tokens, but the rest of the hearts are fast and easy.

These tokens only work for characters that have already completed the heart, right?

I don't get an option to even view the inventory on alts I'm running through map completion.

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Pifil.5193 said:

These tokens only work for characters that have already completed the heart, right?

I think so.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

1 hour ago, Pifil.5193 said:

These tokens only work for characters that have already completed the heart, right?

I don't get an option to even view the inventory on alts I'm running through map completion.

Yes, after completion only. Each toon has to earn the kodans' trust. They don't honor shared accounts.

[Hesione.9412]

18 hours ago, Will.9785 said:

They were quick to nerf the adventures giving reknown tokens though, weren't they?

Yes, do I need to do four adventures now, to get one token?