Achievment unlocked: BUTCHERING Spear

[whooot.5784]

Done. Now it's one of the trashiest weapon in the entiere universe. Gj.

[roamzero.9486]

It's a shame I had fun with the spear in the Beta despite it hitting like a wet noodle. What interest I had in the xpac has now evaporated lol. 

[Kervv.6039]

Did they stealth nerf Shattering Assaults stealth? Last night i could stealth on the fly....and today I need a target.

With all the insane builds out there it was nice for 2 days to feel like I could keep up with them.

I guess it's back to dagger/pistol for another 10 years.

Edited August 24 by Kervv.6039
flipped dagger and pistol ><

[Kervv.6039]

54 minutes ago, Kervv.6039 said:

Did they stealth nerf Shattering Assaults stealth? Last night i could stealth on the fly....and today I need a target.

With all the insane builds out there it was nice for 2 days to feel like I could keep up with them.

I guess it's back to dagger/pistol for another 10 years.

Found it in the game notes. Nothing to see here but a nerf. That is all.

[Doggie.3184]

42 minutes ago, Kervv.6039 said:

Did they stealth nerf Shattering Assaults stealth? Last night i could stealth on the fly....and today I need a target.

With all the insane builds out there it was nice for 2 days to feel like I could keep up with them.

I guess it's back to dagger/pistol for another 10 years.

Yeah I put dagger/pistol on my back bar so I can actually move while I'm still trying out Spear. It's just too slow now after multiple nerfs... 🥺

[thaniretouni.4762]

6 hours ago, roamzero.9486 said:

It's a shame I had fun with the spear in the Beta despite it hitting like a wet noodle. What interest I had in the xpac has now evaporated lol. 

There is still warrior for me with spear.

[whooot.5784]

Honestly at this point this is a complete scam... Litteraly spent 25buck for the expac cause I thought hey, the spear look fun. TWO DAYS, JUST TWO DAYS the weapon is now unplayable, unfun, and completly garbage, in EVERY POSSIBLE MOD: wvw, pve, pvp....

This is a SHAMLESS scam, I feel robbed by Anet .... Completly robbed, and scamed

[xAyWaRE.6720]

i was ready to post that Anet did an incredible job about the spear thief. I was really enjoying roaming in WvW lke a ninja. Now i login, combo the 3 key , and no stealth happen except with a target. WHY ! Dagger pistol have the easiest stealth access, the nerf wasn't needed ! I literally  bought this expansion for that and now i can't enjoy my 25 bucks. Maybe put it again and get rid of the boon removal or something else...

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

I really had fun with spear because it was so fluid, not spam one or two buttons only while also being forgiving as you dont needed to hit every attack (especially in this expac where enemies keep moving like crazy) and keep going without being punished hard, yes you loose dps but you dont get kittened up.

Thats gone now. I want my money back. 

I don't care about kitten benchmarks etc., but i do care about having fun!

so nerf the dmg on 3c or do something else, revert this change asap

Edited August 24 by Felices Bladewing.3914

[ArcanistSeven.8720]

thief finally gets a weapon that isnt clunky as all hell since staff and they nerf it to hit like a noodle and now we need land a hit for the stealth. ive already moved back to my old weapons.

[Sandzibar.5134]

Glad I waited and never spent money on this expansion.

Im sorry for you loss guys 😞

[Antycypator.9874]

Well, at least I can put Darkspear skin on my staff and pretend to have a spear that actually does damage.

[Lyralia.2945]

I don't think Anet knows why they are making any of the changes Anet is making. I'm not even sure most of the balance team knows what the other members of the balance team are doing.

[xAyWaRE.6720]

I've been playing this game for 12 years, and i 've never posted a comment here. 

I was really about to thank anet for the job they've done with spear thief, i'm so sad my first comment above is about complain.

[Asur.9178]

As I said numerous times in the past: in order to design, balance, and fix issues for a given class, the team/individual responsible for it must actively make an effort to play the class, understand the said class at an intricate level, and have a passion for the class.

The team (balance team) in GW2 does not have this when it comes to Thief. They never have since 2012. It's why issues plaguing the class since over a decade ago still plagues the class now. Their best idea of balancing is increasing initiative cost any time something is deemed as overperforming and then never re-visiting it ever again.

The team makes promises that are never kept and are forgotten almost as quickly as they make their promises and claims/plans. For example, this was almost over 3 years ago at this point.

They have preached since day one that Thief has too much mobility compared to other classes, and so they have kept hacking away at it for over a decade...except they also introduced vastly superior mobility for other classes in that same period - so, now Thief is significantly worse and has lost the only real edge it had over other classes: mobility. Additionally, they have been pushing this class more and more into stealth, while also using that as an excuse to hold back giving it more damage or survivability outside of stealth - and the biggest meme; adding mechanics to the game that completely shut down stealth while doing this (eg: target painters and revealed on skills/traits). No other class has traitlines/skills and defenses/builds that are completely shut down (even momentarily) by a single thing.

If you don't believe it, look at the recent sword initiative increase nerf to reduce S/X's ability to be mobile. Clearly they felt S/X Thieves were a problem - enough to nerf it out of the blue; and if their excuse was Rifle DE using S/X on swap, then they are targeting the wrong problem with that.

I don't normally use this term, nor do I think it's not fixable, but when it comes to Thief balancing and addressing Thief related issues, the team is incompetent. It takes significant active effort to not be that - and the team has shown time and time again that they are not willing to do that.

Edited August 25 by Asur.9178

[nosleepdemon.1368]

5 hours ago, Sandzibar.5134 said:

Glad I waited and never spent money on this expansion.

Im sorry for you loss guys 😞

After Sceptre turned out sooooo bad on Rev (my main) I switched to Thief just as a way to try something a bit different. My Thief had previously existed more or less purely as a character in SAB, who has all the SAB weapons and unlocks. I had a bit of fun doing WvW as a roamer and was slowly picking up some of the more dastardly tricks - like shadowstep / return to avoid interrupt when finishing an opponent. When Spears were announced I was cautious, given the track record with the previous expansion’s weapons which I felt, as a whole, were overly complex for no good reason. Now I see Thief had a promising weapon that got destroyed, and I am wondering what will happen to Rev in the next patch as Spear seems over tuned for them. I am holding back on my purchase until things settle down. I’m also REALLY not a fan of this trickle-fed content.

[senftube.6081]

I feel scammed fr. HOW LONG DO WE HAVE TO WAIT THAT THIEF CLASS GET A PROPER WEAPON WHICH WORKS!?  All i see are nerfs over nerfs. WHY WAS SPEAR STEALTH OP? MAKES NO SENSE.  Now i have to hit a target. Too bad that every class nowdays are so mobile like a thief or even more mobile or insta kill me on range and kite the kitten out of me. Some also have stealth so there is no target HAHAHAHA. Anet really should stop to balance the game on stationary golems and should play the game in real situations. Spear for thief is now even a trashcan in PVE and hit lesser than a discount china wet noodle. I guess i have to go back to S/D , D/P for another 10 years.

Edited August 26 by senftube.6081

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

No point in testing the beta weapon releases when they'll nerf it into uselessness weeks after release.  No point in ordering expansions for new weapons. 

 

 

There a reason my account has permanent 3 points marked on forums account.... truth hurts. Anet will not read unless it states truth that hurts their image xD

 

Hell, it took 6 months for Malicious cunning salvo from getting noticed that it was  missing a blast finisher. I wonder how long it'll take for then to fix Shadow Savior from working with harrowing Storm when hard to catch works with it no issue

Edited August 27 by Lithril Ashwalker.6230

[GoldenPants.1870]

Oh no, I can no longer abuse spear 3 to stealth infinitely with like 0 initiative cost. 

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

On 8/27/2024 at 4:10 AM, GoldenPants.1870 said:

Oh no, I can no longer abuse spear 3 to stealth infinitely with like 0 initiative cost. 

its not infinite and even with quickness you have to stealth attack, hit nothing, to maintain initiative.
go try to troll another post/go to reddit

prenerf**

Edited August 28 by Lithril Ashwalker.6230

[Geoff Fey.1035]

1 hour ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

its not infinite and even with quickness you have to stealth attack, hit nothing, to maintain initiative.
go try to troll another post/go to reddit

I do agree with you it feels less fluid, however it makes sense you need to hit to stealth--that matches Cloak & Dagger. Didn't take that long for me to learn to compensate for it, it just means I can't be as willy-nilly to get into stealth.

Biggest issue is quickness making your autoattack too fast and taking you out of stealth before getting the stealth attack off. It took ANet a while to tweak Scepter to fix that, so we know they can, it's just a matter of waiting until they do.

[Kervv.6039]

21 hours ago, GoldenPants.1870 said:

Oh no, I can no longer abuse spear 3 to stealth infinitely with like 0 initiative cost. 

I have just under 12k health. I need stealth to survive. It is my main class mechanic.

If I happen to steal into the wrong fight I'm dead instantly to all of the random AOE. If i get hit with one of the multitudes of snares or stuns in the game there is a good chance I'm dead.   Spellbreakers are all but unkillable if played with even the slightest bit of competency. Mirage pops out of stealth (go figure) and can insta-gib most anyone. Rangers are near on par with warriors for being unkillable and have arguably the widest range of solid weapon sets available to them.  Instacast double health bars on necro. Engineers chase after me with what seems to be an impossibly huge aoe buzzsaw that tears me apart and keeps me revealed.  And eles, who probably have the most work to do out of any of us, but just rotate through f1-f4 and 1-4 and simultaneously melt everyone and keep their team alive.

I could go on and on but this is not a complaint post about other classes...so please don't come in here and say we abuse stealth. It's OUR mechanic. Without that or dodge we are as good as dead in any fight.

I mean how dare we enjoy our class fantasy like all the others. 

Maybe we should feel bad for Anet they are the ones that have to make us the 'masters of stealth' (their words) and at the same time not make it that good or there will be like 4 times the daily posts about how we abuse stealth and it should be nerfed.

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

18 hours ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

however it makes sense you need to hit to stealth--that matches Cloak & Dagger. 

that is untrue and in my opinion exatcly why the change is bad. CnD can be cast again after failing it as long as you have initiative and cast point/attack animation is pretty fast to ensure you can go into stealth if you are in melee range if no counterplay is emitted.

shattering assault flips back to unsuspected strike after executing it forcing you to go through another rotation before try to go into stealth again, that is way to unreliable in any scenario .

Edit: lets just assume if you not hit a target with it it would create a smoke field right underneath you and unsuspecting strike would be a leap finisher, than it would be fine, but i am pretty sure anet will never create another weapon for thief that can create smoke fields for obvious reasons 

Edited August 28 by Felices Bladewing.3914

[Geoff Fey.1035]

6 hours ago, Felices Bladewing.3914 said:

that is untrue and in my opinion exatcly why the change is bad. CnD can be cast again after failing it as long as you have initiative and cast point/attack animation is pretty fast to ensure you can go into stealth if you are in melee range if no counterplay is emitted.

It's 100% true, but your assessment on the speed and spammability of it is valid. In terms of 1:1 the Dagger's access to stealth is more reliable and faster than the Spear.

My counterpoint is that Spear--compared to dagger--has access to incredible utility with a lot more synergies across multiple traitlines (Immob/CC, Lifesteal, Block/Heal, Stealth). The Initiative regain on Stealth Attack alone makes it a much more sustainable weapon over longer engagements in PvE.

6 hours ago, Felices Bladewing.3914 said:

shattering assault flips back to unsuspected strike after executing it forcing you to go through another rotation before try to go into stealth again, that is way to unreliable in any scenario .

This is the counterplay.

If Spear had the same kind of access to stealth as Dagger there'd literally be no reason to take Dagger in Power and Condi builds. Dagger is currently hanging on due to reliability but it's not far off from slipping.

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

41 minutes ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

This is the counterplay.

If Spear had the same kind of access to stealth as Dagger there'd literally be no reason to take Dagger in Power and Condi builds. Dagger is currently hanging on due to reliability but it's not far off from slipping.

Counterplay should always be some active response, not integrated by design.

I can see it as a kind of balance to other weapons as you mentioned, but this makes spear in my opinion slightly worse than our current alternatives. Reverting the change but increasing initiative in comp modes that you need to land the stealth attack in order to continue successfully would have been a smarter balance