You need to increase map capacity if the meta event DPS checks will stay this tight.

[Zenith.7301]

You pretty much need to land on the map 20+ minutes fully organized before the meta event is even announced or you stand no chance at even making it through the queue for the meta maps.

 

Maps that don't fill up completely with at least 2 commanders with 50 person squads pretty much are a waste of time and guaranteed to fail.

 

This is not good design. Stop the tight DPS checks if you won't allow people the chance to get into organized maps. Increase the timers or increase the map capacity.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

10 minutes ago, Zenith.7301 said:

Increase the timers or increase the map capacity.

Or put players in a bootcamp and only let them into the new maps if they can meet a standard?

[Zenith.7301]

5 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Or put players in a bootcamp and only let them into the new maps if they can meet a standard?

Yeah, let's take the Wildstar approach of gatekeeping purportedly casual content and kill the MMO because it'd make you feel better to be punitive to strangers.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

12 minutes ago, Zenith.7301 said:

Yeah, let's take the Wildstar approach of gatekeeping purportedly casual content and kill the MMO because it'd make you feel better to be punitive to strangers.

Or "the strangers" finally get that wake-up call and get told their 5k DPS isn't good enough, back to the drawing board, back to training.

Because the only way those players "clear" any content is if someone else over performs to pick up their slack.

[Zenith.7301]

Just now, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

It is disrespectful to expect someone else to cover for someone unwilling to pull their weight, doubly so when they feel entitled to someone else's extra effort.

It's open world content. It's not meant to be competitive or a zero sum game. Go be a hall monitor elsewhere, I honestly don't care for the sanctimony. It's unbelievably dumb to expect PuGs to perform like organized guild groups.

[Maienstern.2154]

1 hour ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

It is disrespectful to expect someone else to cover for someone unwilling to pull their weight, doubly so when they feel entitled to someone else's extra effort.

And that is precisely, why I don't do raids and stuff. Can I please keep my open world? Maybe we need to gatekeep open world from the try hards, because your "extra effort" is just messing up the game balance. I don't want it, please keep it to yourself. /Sarcasm 

But let's calm down for a second, this tribalism isn't doing anyone any favors. Shouldn't we all want people to try and experience as many game modes as possible? If raiders are willing to carry an open world event, there is a much higher chance, that a portion of the open world players will grow out of their 2k DPS and learn to play at raid level. Don't you want more, players to engage with that game mode, so ArenaNet has a reason to put more effort and resources into it? Big open world meta events and world bosses like JS are exactly the boot camp you're calling for. Both new maps are just one gigantic training ground. Even that harvest dance event teaches you raid mechanics. If you don't allow us space to learn, we are not going to get better. 

Edited August 26 by Maienstern.2154
Addition of tone indicator

[Mad Maxxie.6075]

Yeah, the meta is a problem IMO, it kind of defeats the purpose of map events if the majority don't even attempt it. If you need anything organized group together and the DPS check is apparently so tight most players give up if a minute or 2 is off the overall timer, that just makes the map unfun IMO. Map events are not meant to be raids, it's supposed to get players to hop in and play together and this is doing the opposite IMO. The amount of times I've been on the map where everyone ignores the meta or actively declares to the map that it's not possible to do even though almost the entire timer is still up. It's a downer IMO and ultimately, this is a game, so the goal should be fun and players actually attempting to play the content.

[Smurfiness.3714]

Heck I don't know what you guys are talking about. I'm casual gamer who is happy to have a new expansion that I paid for to play in. Now I play hours instead of 30 minutes to get my 5 Daily events. 

I'm not here to make some piano player unhappy  that others are not doing 30 keys to get 50k dps. 

I'm here to make myself happy. 

[Logos.5603]

2 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Or "the strangers" finally get that wake-up call and get told their 5k DPS isn't good enough, back to the drawing board, back to training.

Because the only way those players "clear" any content is if someone else over performs to pick up their slack.

Or redesign the attribute/skill system with a better, more intuitive one. I'm almost certain that reason some players can't hit higher than 5k is because of the bloated, unintuitive attribute math one has to figure out in order to construct a high DPS build without having to go to third-party websites, or spend hours trying to memorize how the attribute system works. Plus, for the average player, build experimentation is prohibitively expensive or a chore.

Edited August 26 by Logos.5603

[MysticalGoddess.8637]

I have attempted the meta 3 times and it failed 3 times, if that is peoples experience do you really think they will want to try again? It gets discouraging and you just give up.

[Logos.5603]

2 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

It is disrespectful to expect someone else to cover for someone unwilling to pull their weight, doubly so when they feel entitled to someone else's extra effort.

You know what, you are correct. You better make sure that every time you play you are not just playing THE top meta build, but you better be playing it perfectly! Otherwise, you are detriment to the group and someone else is having to cover for you. I'm going to be keeping my eye out for you. You better be pulling your weight in every group content all the time...and by weight I mean you play perfectly...TOP DPS like a machine!

[Braynz.2906]

There's a meta?

[Gazrul.3086]

1 hour ago, Braynz.2906 said:

There's a meta?

Not really, it's a double world boss. 

[Hotride.2187]

7 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Or put players in a bootcamp and only let them into the new maps if they can meet a standard?

And lose half the playerbase (more, even?)... Masterplan.

[Widebody.5071]

7 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

It's open world content. It's not meant to be competitive or a zero sum game. Go be a hall monitor elsewhere, I honestly don't care for the sanctimony. It's unbelievably dumb to expect PuGs to perform like organized guild groups.

Your right and if they did it'll be a bunch of bellowing for nerfs. It's like dam if you do and dam if you don't.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Remember that the Eparch Meta boss needs something like 8.6k dps per person to be beaten in time. In a world where doing 25k dps is considered bad and easily reachable by low effort builds. 

The fact that both bosses are nothing more than mild dps checks and it still fails. 

We can yap about casuals this casuals that. 

Doing 25k dps should be considered casual. 

Not 5k dps. 

[Widebody.5071]

Who would have thought that somebody would be advocating for requirements to do meta events in open world. Even the boss in Jinthir Wilds is doable with enough people (8). It's not just dps that's needed there a need for a balance approach which most glass cannons don't have. If you are listening to the narration real good it can be done.

Edited August 26 by Widebody.5071

[Cyninja.2954]

Tell me you do not understand scaling without directly telling me you do not understand scaling in this game.🤦‍♂️

The world bosses are complete-able, are being completed and that without amazing uber compositions. It just needs a fraction more competent players versus incompetent players, and that does not change with amount of players.

What you are actually asking for is to make the world bosses easier and that is unrelated to player map capacity after a minimum amount is met (which usually does not exceed 10 players for any event, in most cases 5).

Edited August 26 by Cyninja.2954

[zeyeti.8347]

7 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

It's open world content. It's not meant to be competitive or a zero sum game. Go be a hall monitor elsewhere, I honestly don't care for the sanctimony. It's unbelievably dumb to expect PuGs to perform like organized guild groups.

The problem is that bosses have hp pools requiring a certain amount of players doing a correct dps , what triggers me more is afk ppl , dead who don't want to spend the 1.5 silver to rez , and the AA fanboy reaching 5k.

Another problem who isn't really a problem and who is gonna resolve over time is the amount of achiev on the meta map , a lot of ppl are doing  achievs and refuse to participate in the meta boss because of doing their own stuff , but with time this map is gonna only filled with treasure hunters and meta guys but atm most maps have not all players participating the meta.

But you can't blame someone who has failed the meta numerous time while putting a 30-40 k bench and seing that under him they are ppl doing 5k , or ppl unable to avoid the slightest aoe , i had that experience with a guy falling 5 times in a row then instantly dying because of the debuff from dying in chains to fast .. rezzed him 5 times and after that screw him i am here to play not to press F and expose myself to downstate , and he was angry nobody rezzed him after the 6th time... kind of player i want to punch in the face irl.

I mean there should be a standart , 10k dps is ez to achiev by just pressing buttons , 5k on a  soulbeast ... that's just someone lazy who don't wanna put the effort of learning but who would gladly benefit on having the loots because you have 3-4 players doing the job of 15.

My point is if you like to be a burden be my guest , but know one thing : without the players actually doing the damage of 6 unactive players (or lazy burden buns , call them how you like , politicall correctness is not in my vocabulary) , nobody would ever achiev the hard metas.

Let's all do 5k and see how it runs nah ? not a lot of hard metas are gonna succeed i think. And don't talk about mechanics , ohhh my god for having both bosses to die in a 30 sec window seems absolutely insanely complicated to some ppl just to read : stop hitting.

Nor using your warclaw chain to cc him while running around , like the brain cannot handle a simple mechanic like that , anet was even kind enough to have npc literallly screaming at you how to cc the boss and put you on your warclaw by default when it's needed , but no , some ppl have the same brain of a dead oyster.

I franckly don't wanna plays with such ppl ... but open worlds is like that , it isn't anet fault , it's just designed like that and could never be balanced.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

The area has lots and lots of players not participating but still exploring and completing achievements. I know, I'm one of them, and I come across plenty of other people not participating. It's not worth it anyway.

[Vinceman.4572]

Are we talking about the same meta - I mean double bosses? I'm asking because on the servers I played on the event only failed before the patch. Afterwards I have been in 2 maps where it was organized via map chat and lfg was not necessary. And all organized events I attended were totally fine like any other well doable meta event.
You don't need very much dps that's definitely not true. I would say op's map failed due to people that weren't willing or just didn't show up and that's because at the moment lots of players still looking for certain event and event chains to complete their achievement panel.
I have to add: This was on EU and over the last couple days I played sometimes in the afternoon, sometimes in the night.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I've completed it a few times now and it really just needs people knowing how to do the mechanics. I have seen it fail a few times though certainly. They should maybe increase the rewards for the effort involved though. 

[Maienstern.2154]

@DanAlcedo.3281 I have recently tried a 25k DPS low intensity build in the open world. Those are not low effort in open world content, since they heavy rely on a structured groups for survivability. Those builds are extremely glassy and have to be "carried" by a good defensive support, or they will not be able to do 25k and instead spent most of their time on the ground. If all open world players would play such builds, world bosses would not be easier in the slightest. And while these builds are low intensity to play, I wouldn't consider them low effort, since you still have to do a bunch of research out of the game to learn about them. That's essentially having to do homework. And why would someone, who has no clue how high their DPS is care about doing such homework to improve it? The game itself does not tell you, in case you have forgotten, that arc DPS is an addon, that many people don't even know about. I felt like I could handle myself quite well in the open world, sure I couldn't solo a lot of group events, but that's because they are group events, right? Colour me surprised, when I first went into the aerodrome out of shear curiosity and saw that I did less then 2k DPS. I have since improved quite a bit, but I still struggle to stay above 10k, it's a process. Casual players are blissfully unaware that they are being hard carried. That's why 25k DPS is not considered casual.

[Cyninja.2954]

6 minutes ago, Maienstern.2154 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 I have recently tried a 25k DPS low intensity build in the open world. Those are not low effort in open world content, since they heavy rely on a structured groups for survivability. Those builds are extremely glassy and have to be "carried" by a good defensive support, or they will not be able to do 25k and instead spent most of their time on the ground. If all open world players would play such builds, world bosses would not be easier in the slightest.

Depends on the low intensity build used. Not all are the same. In general the builds will perform vastly better than players self made builds.

You are correct that most builds would still rely on boon supports, which is another build which is being suggested (at least by me, see my most recent update on the convergence Umbriel thread).

Then there is celestial builds, which for all intents and purposes are tanky enough, self sutained enough and with sufficient damage to clear any open world content.

Quote

And while these builds are low intensity to play, I wouldn't consider them low effort, since you still have to do a bunch of research out of the game to learn about them. That's essentially having to do homework. And why would someone, who has no clue how high their DPS is care about doing such homework to improve it?

Yes, player inadequacies in understanding and knowledge ARE the main issues here. Which begs the question: why should content be designed for players which have 0 clue of how this game works?

I get that not every player will be interested in improving their build. Then those players should also not expect every bit of content  and loot to be made available to them. I would expect that players which continue to run into failure walls to EVENTUALLY read up or be self aware enough to check their builds.

Quote

The game itself does not tell you, in case you have forgotten, that arc DPS is an addon, that many people don't even know about. I felt like I could handle myself quite well in the open world, sure I couldn't solo a lot of group events, but that's because they are group events, right? Colour me surprised, when I first went into the aerodrome out of shear curiosity and saw that I did less then 2k DPS.

I have since improved quite a bit, but I still struggle to stay above 10k, it's a process. Casual players are blissfully unaware that they are being hard carried. That's why 25k DPS is not considered casual.

Oh absolutely, the game is terrible at telling players how bad they are. The most it does is provide players with failure without giving them an exact break down of WHY something failed.

Honest question now though: do you really think the majority of players would enjoy being shown that their are essentially useless ballast?

Ignorance is bliss. The only issue here is ignorant players demanding rewards and design around their ignorance.

Cudos on improving yourself though to a level where you are a benefit to most groups.

 

[Triptaminas.4789]

Quote

The game in general has also aggressively dumbed down its content in multiple aspects. Part of it is inherent-- because of the cooperative aspects, you are bound to get people to hitch a free ride. But the deadweight culture is particularly horrid in this game to the point people expect to be rewarded for having a pulse. If you have standards, you are toxic or a gatekeeper. Oh no, a pve boss requires some degree of coordination! *Angry frog noises*. And even on these forums you have people  that die to literally anything for 10 years.

I like this comment, I think it was on point.