Let's say, theoretically, I wanted to refund Janthir Wilds...

[Mistwraithe.3106]

Wow. Thread is still going!

It just defies common sense to expect any one build or weapon to remain a significant outlier in strength. It goes against the principle of any RPG (the designers will want to players to explore a wide range of builds rather than one being strictly dominant) but particularly in an MMORPG with Player vs Player content. It's almost delusional to expect a build or weapon will remain overpowered for any significant length of time.

Either the build/weapon will get nerfed or everything else will be brought up to match. Given how much power creep GW2 has already suffered I think the vast majority of the player base would prefer they nerfed strong outliers rather than buffing everything even further.

[Darklord Roy.2514]

59 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

OK so the place where the OP is at and what you argue is the grey area.  You could make an argument, which was my side point, my main point is why does the gatcha community not tolerate similar behavior from gatcha game makers? But mmo players do.  Gatcha gamers do not tolerate nerfs to any aspect of content they purchased.

That's probably more of a question for gacha gamers than for MMO players. I don't play gacha games so I have no reference for how often they balance those games, but my guess is that the target audience for those games does not *expect* nerfs to happen when putting time and money into that specific genre of game.

MMO's are more or less the opposite, every game in this genre that isn't in maintenance mode goes through varying degrees of routine balance updates. It's an integral part of how these games operate, and everyone who plays MMO's routinely should know that's exactly what we signed up for when we started playing these games. Newer players who have never touched an MMO simply have to take one look at the T&C documents to see that fact and make the determination if that's something they're comfortable with.

At the end of the day, if a person is uncomfortable with having any aspect of game balance change in any degree, then it is that person's sole responsibility to research how a particular game operates before they decide to put money into it. It's okay to prefer games that don't get updates, but deciding to play a game that very obviously *will* receive both constant and significant updates to gameplay only to complain about it later and demand a refund is pretentious. Anet is not to blame for people not reading the contract they agree to when signing up for the game or buying content.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

9 minutes ago, Darklord Roy.2514 said:

That's probably more of a question for gacha gamers than for MMO players. I don't play gacha games so I have no reference for how often they balance those games, but my guess is that the target audience for those games does not *expect* nerfs to happen when putting time and money into that specific genre of game.

MMO's are more or less the opposite, every game in this genre that isn't in maintenance mode goes through varying degrees of routine balance updates. It's an integral part of how these games operate, and everyone who plays MMO's routinely should know that's exactly what we signed up for when we started playing these games. Newer players who have never touched an MMO simply have to take one look at the T&C documents to see that fact and make the determination if that's something they're comfortable with.

At the end of the day, if a person is uncomfortable with having any aspect of game balance change in any degree, then it is that person's sole responsibility to research how a particular game operates before they decide to put money into it. It's okay to prefer games that don't get updates, but deciding to play a game that very obviously *will* receive both constant and significant updates to gameplay only to complain about it later and demand a refund is pretentious. Anet is not to blame for people not reading the contract they agree to when signing up for the game or buying content.

i agree with everything your saying but in reference to OP point of view, its hard to research how a particular game operates when they sell it as one thing and then change it a month later.  There is no prediction as to what they will do with what you're given.  So in certain circumstances it can be difficult to impossible to make an informed decision before you buy.  I for one saw a lot of people "some in my guild" that did not want to buy janthir, especially after they disliked SoTo, but after seeing the damage that spear does, they bought it.  Now where are they at?

Edited September 12 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Dorsai.1458]

I bought the new expac on the 9th after a long time away.  Spent most of this first day wondering why warclaw skills wouldn't work correctly unless I unbinded all my other mounts skills (lol - do they test this sh*t?).  Saw the "balance" patch notes on war spear and no update on the warclaw skill issues.   But housing works ....I guess.

Requested refund the next day.  Unlike other companies that give you a specific window or conditions for a refund, ArenaNet just tells us to send a ticket and they will get back to you.

20 min after I post this, I got my refund.  G'luck.

Edited September 12 by Dorsai.1458

[nosleepdemon.1368]

11 hours ago, Zily.3152 said:

We found the rev main😂

As a WvW Rev main myself after witnessing the horror of Sceptre, then switching to Thief and Axes having acceptable range for about three days, I decided to wait this expansion out to see what level of g-imped ANet decide is appropriate 😄

Edited September 12 by nosleepdemon.1368

[Darklord Roy.2514]

59 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

i agree with everything your saying but in reference to OP point of view, its hard to research how a particular game operates when they sell it as one thing and then change it a month later.  There is no prediction as to what they will do with what you're given.  So in certain circumstances it can be difficult to impossible to make an informed decision before you buy.  I for one saw a lot of people "some in my guild" that did not want to buy janthir, especially after they disliked SoTo, but after seeing the damage that spear does, they bought it.  Now where are they at?

They didn't change anything about how it was sold though, patch notes and balance are not marketing and the actual damage of spear skills was not an advertised selling point of the expansion. It doesn't make sense to treat patch notes as a form of marketing when they exclusively deal in parts of the game that change constantly, whereas things being advertised for a game expansion *cannot* change. It also doesn't make sense to see a patch preview for an expansion and expect nothing to get a balance pass.

Take your guildmates for example. I would assume they are players who have been around long enough to see multiple expansions, so my expectation is that they should know how balancing works after an expac launches. IMO, purchasing an expansion for the sole purpose of using a few overtuned weapons that were *obviously* going to be hit with a nerf bat was foolish. Coupled with the fact that they were bothered enough by Anet JUST tweaking spear numbers that they quit, which just makes it seem like the only way they can find enjoyment in this game is by taking advantage of the OP hyper-meta things that roll around sometimes. Again, not Anet or the game's fault, your old guildies have nobody to blame but themselves for having that sort of mindset.

[Ashen.2907]

4 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

Possibly and yet there is still ground there even with that contract sign, it does not make them immune from fraud, which false advertising is part of, so its not full proof but it is a good defense.

Of course it doesn't make them immune to accusations of fraud....but it does mean that, by definition, this is not fraud.

 

Of course not being fraud doesn't mean that a given player has to b e happy with changes. Any consumer should decide for themselves whether or not to see a refund when confronted with changes to a product that render it less valuable to them.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

We can hope it means closure of account OP, just for the amount of cope alone.

Kid you not, this topic ended up on my google feed---that's some massive salt for that to happen.  Bravo.

[VocalThought.9835]

I think everyone has the right to a refund if they follow the guidelines. I also think there is flexibility for a company to amend their rules based on the situation. 

If you, "hypothetically", wanted a refund and had a compelling argument, I think you could get it regardless of when you ask for it.

I think the difference between "gotcha games" and GW2 is the intentionality and integrity. Gotcha Games intentionally create games that are not a reflection of what they marketed, loosing their integrity, where GW2 intends to make a game that plays how they you would expect, makes changes in good faith to improve the game and disappoints you. That's a huge difference.

[lordfitna.6427]

Okay, out of pure curiosity and wanting to know, which feature was removed that might have to lead to a decision of hypothetical removing of a xpac, just curious since as far as I saw, most featured works so it was a okay expansion and people had fun, although it had it's share of bugs, and for spear, I mean personally I would just wait for anet to rework it since they usually reworks classes every 6 months, so don't think that should be a prob. Also if silly question please ignore 😄

[voltaicbore.8012]

16 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

And apparently that contract we sign when we sign up is ironclad and is unchallengable lol.

Well (US) courts are generally reticent to intervene between freely contracting parties that agree to do things that the law doesn't mind, or that don't result in much actual harm. Corporations of course famously love to exploit the latter by only nickel-and-diming people.... just a lot of people. This is why class-action lawsuits exist, although (again in the US) those have suffered some significant setbacks as a strategy thanks to the US Supreme Court. I, for one, never said contracts between players and game companies are unchallengeable and ironclad. It's just that legal remedies are FAR inferior to regular old market forces when it comes to correcting this stuff.

You actually say pretty much the same thing when you mention the difference between the gacha community and the MMO community. You say

16 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

I know the difference between gatcha and mmo communities, so I'll answer my own question for you all. The difference is that gatcha gamers don't tolerate it and they mass refund or report them. 

I don't know about the "report" bit (that might be more of an EU thing, where consumer protection groups actually seem active and empowered), but the refunds and other forms of voting-with-dollars are NOT legal actions. They're regular old market force things. So apparently what works in your idealized gacha world is also not legal action, but free market consumer response. Also stop misspelling "gacha."

(1) Illegal, (2) not right, and (3) "I don't like it" are three distinct ideas. Everyone is absolutely free to think (3) for any reason, and has the power to act on it in a free market by simply taking their money elsewhere at any time; governments (are supposed to) intervene here when consumer choice is unfairly limited by entities seen as too dominant to reasonably work around. (2) takes a big step into to gray area, and raises a lot of questions about the kinds of choices societies want to allow people to make, and merits discussion. To be fair to you, (2) pretty clearly seems to be the discussion you're trying to have, but you keep insisting on injecting (1) into it all. (1) is a matter of law, and plays by a very specific set of rules; it's annoying to see you blame all of us for being sheeple here when it's pretty clear you have no real grasp of how that all works.

Edited September 12 by voltaicbore.8012

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

10 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

Well (US) courts are generally reticent to intervene between freely contracting parties that agree to do things that the law doesn't mind, or that don't result in much actual harm. Corporations of course famously love to exploit the latter by only nickel-and-diming people.... just a lot of people. This is why class-action lawsuits exist, although (again in the US) those have suffered some significant setbacks as a strategy thanks to the US Supreme Court. I, for one, never said contracts between players and game companies are unchallengeable and ironclad. It's just that legal remedies are FAR inferior to regular old market forces when it comes to correcting this stuff.

You actually say pretty much the same thing when you mention the difference between the gacha community and the MMO community. You say

I don't know about the "report" bit (that might be more of an EU thing, where consumer protection groups actually seem active and empowered), but the refunds and other forms of voting-with-dollars are NOT legal actions. They're regular old market force things. So apparently what works in your idealized gacha world is also not legal action, but free market consumer response. Also stop misspelling "gacha."

(1) Illegal, (2) not right, and (3) "I don't like it" are three distinct ideas. Everyone is absolutely free to think (3) for any reason, and has the power to act on it in a free market by simply taking their money elsewhere at any time; governments (are supposed to) intervene here when consumer choice is unfairly limited by entities seen as too dominant to reasonably work around. (2) takes a big step into to gray area, and raises a lot of questions about the kinds of choices societies want to allow people to make, and merits discussion. To be fair to you, (2) pretty clearly seems to be the discussion you're trying to have, but you keep insisting on injecting (1) into it all. (1) is a matter of law, and plays by a very specific set of rules; it's annoying to see you blame all of us for being sheeple here when it's pretty clear you have no real grasp of how that all works.

no idea how it works, lol you cant explain why gacha communities dont accept this but mmo players do.  And yes legal action has occurred in other countries due to false advertising both in gacha games and online games.  It exists, and it usually results in the company caving and either issuing refunds or reversing their decision to "balance" aspects of the game which avoids legal liability for them.  So to act like it never happens is foolish.  Your summary of my points is inaccurate and short sided.  You added nothing to it and basically said nothing as well, just a bunch of random rambling bullet points, without actually addressing the issue.

your asking for definitive law that outlines what gw2 is doing and that its illegal lol ok.  Law doesn't always work that way, cases are complex with many variables that all need to be accounted for and it isnt always so cut and dry like you would like it to be.  Thats why they have judges and juries to decide and weigh the pro's and con's lawyers who have to prove their case.  ALl i said was this:

How many players bought the expansion IN PART due to spear being overpowered.  Now spear is nerfed after they bought it. I also made a point that similarly in gacha games this type of behavior is not accepted by the community, and results in boycotting or legal action, or legal investigation by government regulatory agencies depending on the country and the agency and the circumstances.  This usually results in companies reversing their decision or issuing refunds BEFORE legal action takes place, so there is no case to cite in many of these instances because companies capitulate.

You can go ahead and make of that statement what you will.  I never said this instance/example was illegal, i never said I agreed with it or disagreed with it.  Simply pointing out facts and asking why the community response is different on gacha games then it is on mmo's.  A question which has yet to be answered despite forum users pontificating and listing bullet points that go nowhere.

Edited September 13 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Darklord Roy.2514]

48 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

Simply pointing out facts and asking why the community response is different on gacha games then it is on mmo's.  A question which has yet to be answered despite forum users pontificating and listing bullet points that go nowhere.

I feel like I more or less answered this question in another comment, but to put it into simple terms: it's because gacha games and MMO's are two very different genres of games with audiences that have completely different expectations from one another.

The entire purpose of a gacha game is to be a MTX gambling den where you constantly spend money to keep getting random chances at the best stuff. Their philosophy is typically to always just release stronger and stronger stuff rather than nerf anything ever, so when things do get weaker all of a sudden the community gets outraged because it's so out of the norm for them.

MMO's are in a state of near constant change (especially when it comes to competitive game modes) and the expectation from the community is that buffs and nerfs will both happen. People may not always like the changes, but *everyone* knows they are going to happen and that every change cannot always make everyone happy.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

6 hours ago, Darklord Roy.2514 said:

I feel like I more or less answered this question in another comment, but to put it into simple terms: it's because gacha games and MMO's are two very different genres of games with audiences that have completely different expectations from one another.

The entire purpose of a gacha game is to be a MTX gambling den where you constantly spend money to keep getting random chances at the best stuff. Their philosophy is typically to always just release stronger and stronger stuff rather than nerf anything ever, so when things do get weaker all of a sudden the community gets outraged because it's so out of the norm for them.

MMO's are in a state of near constant change (especially when it comes to competitive game modes) and the expectation from the community is that buffs and nerfs will both happen. People may not always like the changes, but *everyone* knows they are going to happen and that every change cannot always make everyone happy.

the problem is the same regardless of the genre I already outlined that 1) they're both videogames, 2) they're both online 3) they both sell digital goods online, 4) they're regulated by the same government agencies, 5) they're bound to the same online regulatory laws. I think audiences have the same expectation given the context of their similarities which is why my comparison is apt.

I dont think gacha gamers being outraged has anything to do with expectations, they just arent willing to tolerate it and mmo players are.

gacha games also have extremely fluctuating metas that change far more rapidly then mmo's do so i disagree that mmos have more change then gacha games.

I think mmo players accept it because they are used to "balances" that look like nerfs for classes/items going all the way back to 1999.  and gacha players spend way more money on gacha games then mmo players percentage wise and the clientele is filled with well to do people who don't tolerate things they purchase being nerfed.  One of the other differences is that mmo players have way more time invested into the game compared to gacha gamers (and companies know this) as well as emotional attachment and social connections. Like the OP who gave up asking for even a refund, who wants to risk losing their 20k hour mmo account (one of the suggestions that was suggested here to the OP, which wasn't nice) vs a gacha game account where you maybe spend an hour a day for 1-5 years max. 

there's also a lot more features to play in an mmo so when a nerf happens its a small percentage of the game that is affected usually, whereas gacha games revolve around the new content/unit that is put out so the focus on the nerf is met far more sternly.

i guess i answered my own question, go me.

I also thought the community wasn't nice to the OP.  You would think we would all be on the same page with things a little more.  I'm not sure what I was expecting, but you would think the community would be a little more concerned with a player asking for a refund for any reason, instead of making fun of him and rooting for his account to close.

Edited September 13 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

5 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

 

I also thought the community wasn't nice to the OP.  You would think we would all be on the same page with things a little more.  I'm not sure what I was expecting, but you would think the community would be a little more concerned with a player asking for a refund for any reason, instead of making fun of him and rooting for his account to close.

Don't worry about it. I spend all my time in pvp and wvw, I got a thick skin c : 

 I will admit that the waves of resentment over not enjoying something have been eye-opening though. Strange, even. 

I did nothing but become dissatisfied with a product that changed after I bought it under the impression it was something else.  Whatever opinion you wish to draw from that is totally up to you! 💖

Edited September 13 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Darklord Roy.2514]

5 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

the problem is the same regardless of the genre I already outlined that 1) they're both videogames, 2) they're both online 3) they both sell digital goods online, 4) they're regulated by the same government agencies, 5) they're bound to the same online regulatory laws. I think audiences have the same expectation given the context of their similarities which is why my comparison is apt.

This is going back to the legal part of the discussion, which is not the question you were asking. You're asking why one group of gamers tolerates something that is a core part of the genre of game that they play while another group of gamers doesn't tolerate it because it *isn't* a core part of that game. It is inherently impossible for gacha gamers to have the same expectations as MMORPG players because those two genres are not even remotely similar to eachother in their function or gameplay.

5 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

I dont think gacha gamers being outraged has anything to do with expectations, they just arent willing to tolerate it and mmo players are

It has everything to do with expectations. Every genre of game has different player expectations for that genre at a base level. In an MMORPG, there is an expectation that some degree of crafting and gathering will be involved unless otherwise stated, and there is an expectation that you will start out by creating a singular character with one starting class. There is also an expectation that an MMORPG will go through regular balance and that skills & classes will change and evolve as the game does. These are all fundamental parts of this genre that are present almost universally across the board, if MMO players didn't want to "tolerate" them then they just wouldn't be MMO players.

Gacha gamers have a completely different set of expectations for what those games feature and how they play at a base level. You cannot compare the expectations for these two types of games because they are so fundamentally different from one another. Nobody goes into an MMO expecting it to behave like a gacha game, and vice versa.

5 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

gacha games also have extremely fluctuating metas that change far more rapidly then mmo's do so i disagree that mmos have more change then gacha games.

I never said MMO's change more than gacha games, I specifically outlined that they go through very different types of change. Gacha game metas change rapidly because they are constantly releasing waves of stronger and stronger items and characters so the power curve is almost always just spiking upward, which (again) is why it is likely so shocking to them when anything actually decreases in power rather than just getting outclassed by the new things. MMO changes are much more fluid, because actual balance rather than power spiking is much more common in this genre.

5 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

I think mmo players accept it because they are used to "balances" that look like nerfs for classes/items going all the way back to 1999.  and gacha players spend way more money on gacha games then mmo players percentage wise and the clientele is filled with well to do people who don't tolerate things they purchase being nerfed.  One of the other differences is that mmo players have way more time invested into the game compared to gacha gamers (and companies know this) as well as emotional attachment and social connections. Like the OP who gave up asking for even a refund, who wants to risk losing their 20k hour mmo account (one of the suggestions that was suggested here to the OP, which wasn't nice) vs a gacha game account where you maybe spend an hour a day for 1-5 years max. 

there's also a lot more features to play in an mmo so when a nerf happens its a small percentage of the game that is affected usually, whereas gacha games revolve around the new content/unit that is put out so the focus on the nerf is met far more sternly.

Unironically yes, this is basically the point I've been trying to make this whole time. The two genres and communities are vehemently different to one another and therefore the things they expect/tolerate are also going to be very different.

5 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

I also thought the community wasn't nice to the OP.  You would think we would all be on the same page with things a little more.  I'm not sure what I was expecting, but you would think the community would be a little more concerned with a player asking for a refund for any reason, instead of making fun of him and rooting for his account to close.

I mean I agree, but I could say the same thing about 90% of other posts in these forums. It's the internet after all, and these forums tend to bring out the worst apples of the community. It happens.

[Darklord Roy.2514]

21 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Don't worry about it. I spend all my time in pvp and wvw, I got a thick skin c : 

 I will admit that the waves of resentment over not enjoying something have been eye-opening though. Strange, even. 

I did nothing but become dissatisfied with a product that changed after I bought it under the impression it was something else.  Whatever opinion you wish to draw from that is totally up to you! 💖

I'm still curious, what exactly changed for you? I could never find a clear answer on whether this was because of a balance change or if some other aspect of the game was not what you were expecting.

[Geoff Fey.1035]

5 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

I also thought the community wasn't nice to the OP.  You would think we would all be on the same page with things a little more.  I'm not sure what I was expecting, but you would think the community would be a little more concerned with a player asking for a refund for any reason, instead of making fun of him and rooting for his account to close.

Combination of

• history of GW2 having balance patches that make/break entire builds
• Excessing to "theoretically" discuss refunds over the Spear nerfs.
• EULA condones ANet doing whatever to GW2 at any time
• forum history of peoples involved

Warrior Spear needed some nerfs. Skill 2, 4, and Burst were hilariously strong in WvW, and Spearbreaker Bunker was wildly strong in PvP. Everyone agrees that the nerfs went too far (skill 4 & 5 mostly). The Spear isn't 100% meta anymore, but it's still high up there.

It's a bit of an overreaction to something that'll likely get rebalanced in a few months anyways.

[Sobx.1758]

On 9/12/2024 at 12:39 AM, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

Where's your claims, you said no to everything I said with 0 sources lol

"You didn't provide any sources for you claims!"
-I didn't make random claims, I simply asked for details about yours. You're unable to provide anything for 2 pages now(...)
"Where's your claims?!"

...what? 🤦‍♂️ 

 

Here's how an honest discussion works: you make a claim so you're supposed to provide the basis for those claims so they can even be treated as remotely reasonable and then discussed. You didn't do that and instead try baiting other poeople to provide arguments for you in order for them to create your argument.
It's like me saying "I can fly!" and after you ask me to prove it, I'll keep refusing and instead repeatedly tell you that you're supposed to prove I can't without interacting with me and without me having to actually prove I can. This is what you're doing here, repeatedly, for multiple pages now. It's stupid and it's clear you're just making blind baseless guesses in your posts.

 

54 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 I will admit that the waves of resentment over not enjoying something have been eye-opening though. Strange, even.

But that's not what happened here at all. Nobody told you you can't "not enjoy" something. If anythin, it was the opposite, people said it's normal that not everyone will enjoy every change and directed you right to the support ticket for the refund you claimed you might be looking for. "waves of resentment over not enjoying something", good one 😅 

 

30 minutes ago, Darklord Roy.2514 said:

I'm still curious, what exactly changed for you? I could never find a clear answer on whether this was because of a balance change or if some other aspect of the game was not what you were expecting.

Warrior spear received the expected balance pass in pvp.

Edited September 13 by Sobx.1758

[Darklord Roy.2514]

18 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Warrior spear received the expected balance pass in pvp.

Respectfully, I'm asking the OP to elaborate for themselves, not for someone to speak for them.

[Sobx.1758]

48 minutes ago, Darklord Roy.2514 said:

Respectfully, I'm asking the OP to elaborate for themselves, not for someone to speak for them.

He literally says it's "due to balance changes" in OP, but sure.

Edited September 13 by Sobx.1758

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Darklord Roy.2514 said:

Respectfully, I'm asking the OP to elaborate for themselves, not for someone to speak for them.

 It does have quite a bit to do with spear for warrior, but the take is more nuanced than "its no longer overpowered". 

As far as that part of my grievance goes, the original beta of the weapon shipped with design issues that made it unpleasant to play.  Spear Swipe, Spearmarshal's Support and Disrupting Throw in particular had unwieldy quallities that made it difficult to strike players with them, which is a common trait with older warrior weapons and specs. 

Multiple players voiced this in the feedback thread, and those hangups were acknowledged in a blog post and fixed for full release.

The recent balance patch undid a lot of the functionality changes to the weapon because of how it functions with spellbreaker, which has had unresolved bugs for a while now. 

Of course the weapon should be balanced for competitive; I don't expect to be allowed to overperform, but in addition to adjusting the damage, they reworked the original problem skills again so many of them regained the same usability issues they got feedback on in beta (and in the case of wild throw, introduced additional skill behavior hurdles.)

Since I spend all my time in the competitive spheres, weapons are often make or break for me when it comes to xpacks.  I can understand making the damage new weapons can put out fair, but if your endeavor to do so goes so far in the opposite direction that the weapon loses its application, the value of purchasing access to it is lost as well.

 

 

Edited September 13 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Darklord Roy.2514]

27 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Of course the weapon should be balanced for competitive; I don't expect to be allowed to overperform, but in addition to adjusting the damage, they reworked the original problem skills again so many of them regained the same usability issues they got feedback on in beta (and in the case of wild throw, introduced additional skill behavior hurdles.)

Since I spend all my time in the competitive spheres, weapons are often make or break for me when it comes to xpacks.  I can understand making the damage new weapons can put out fair, but if your endeavor to do so goes so far in the opposite direction that the weapon loses its application, the value of purchasing access to it is lost as well.

I get where you're coming from, especially from the perspective of someone who only plays competitive modes and doesn't really spend time in PvE since that's where the majority of new content is, but unfortunately this is a thing that happens with every expac. Every expansion for this game has released new weapons (SOTO was late but it still counts), and every single time they have done tweaks shortly after launch. That's just the nature of the game, they'll fix things after the beta and break new things on launch and it'll be in a state of constant tweaks.

That being said, spears are likely to get significantly more balance passes as time goes by since they're the new thing, and it's likely that many of your current issues will get addressed.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

6 minutes ago, Darklord Roy.2514 said:

I get where you're coming from, especially from the perspective of someone who only plays competitive modes and doesn't really spend time in PvE since that's where the majority of new content is, but unfortunately this is a thing that happens with every expac. Every expansion for this game has released new weapons (SOTO was late but it still counts), and every single time they have done tweaks shortly after launch. That's just the nature of the game, they'll fix things after the beta and break new things on launch and it'll be in a state of constant tweaks.

That being said, spears are likely to get significantly more balance passes as time goes by since they're the new thing, and it's likely that many of your current issues will get addressed.

Understandable, and I'm looking forward to that! And when they do, I'll gladly rebuy the expack. 

The way it stands now though, it just doesn't do anything useful for me. Holding out optimism for when that changes.  🫡

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

"You didn't provide any sources for you claims!"
-I didn't make random claims, I simply asked for details about yours. You're unable to provide anything for 2 pages now(...)
"Where's your claims?!"

...what? 🤦‍♂️ 

 

Here's how an honest discussion works: you make a claim so you're supposed to provide the basis for those claims so they can even be treated as remotely reasonable and then discussed. You didn't do that and instead try baiting other poeople to provide arguments for you in order for them to create your argument.
It's like me saying "I can fly!" and after you ask me to prove it, I'll keep refusing and instead repeatedly tell you that you're supposed to prove I can't without interacting with me and without me having to actually prove I can. This is what you're doing here, repeatedly, for multiple pages now. It's stupid and it's clear you're just making blind baseless guesses in your posts.

 

But that's not what happened here at all. Nobody told you you can't "not enjoy" something. If anythin, it was the opposite, people said it's normal that not everyone will enjoy every change and directed you right to the support ticket for the refund you claimed you might be looking for. "waves of resentment over not enjoying something", good one 😅 

 

Warrior spear received the expected balance pass in pvp.

You are not honest about any of this so there's no point rehashing any of this with you, I answered my own question so I don't need to debate it with you as you clearly don't know the answer and keep asking for random sources for every single statement that is made while providing none of your own for any of your claims.