October 8 Balance Update Preview

[Moriko Gray.3491]

• Extirpate: This skill no longer inflicts Extirpation and instead inflicts weakness.
• Transfusion: This trait no longer teleports downed allies to the user. This trait no longer increases the cooldown of Garish Pillar in WvW.

Unique design > balance.  If everything looks or works the same, there is no flavour.  These two design choices should be preserved and even encouraged to build around.  

I don't main a necromancer, but I recognize something that's really interesting to have around.  If I want flavourless gruel, there are plenty of other MMOs.  Two things are important here:  unique abilities are more important than balance and balance is a mirage (as in myth, not the specialization).  Find another way to get "balance" that ultimately will get reworked a month from now anyway.

[Jski.6180]

Love the ele dagger buffs though its still on an ele so going into melee is death unless full bunker but still nice just the same.

Did anet forget ele can use staff too?  Staff needs real love at this point with spear kind of taking its power dmg roll and dagger taking away its support roll.

I do not think the cele nerf going to fix the roming issues it will only effect classes that have perma quickness / alacitry to only having mostly perma. The non cele gear needs to simply give more of there main effects they already have.

[Purrplecat.8310]

I have mained HealScourge since I started playing GW2. I was irate last time Anet nerfed Scourge, and I am angry again.  I swear to all the gods I will quit playing this game if these changes go through. I've spent a lot of time and money playing, but I will happily take myself off to another MMO if Scourge is nerfed into the dirt again. Think carefully, Anet.

 

[jozze.9532]

1 hour ago, reapex.8546 said:

Heal Scourge was being used before Alacrity was added to it.  People weren't taking Heal Scourge to Boneskinner for Alacrity.  It was taken for barrier and pulls. 

You are talking in the past. I did not say it wasn't used before alacrity.

People were taking heal scourge before alacrity was a thing because of the pull and huge carry potential, true. This is not the only reason anymore. Heal scourge is a viable boon healer/tank in instanced PvE. The only place where people still care about the pull is on boneskinner. But this interaction was already bad in the first place.

Negating every mechanic in this game is not healthy. People already play the fight by ignoring everything and outhealing all the damage, that thesy only get because they ignore the fight mechanic. people should be able to move every few seconds. Relying on the heal scourge to carry players out of easy avoidable aoe, is not good.

As someone who has pushed the recent iteration of the heal scourge build i don't think this is a bad change, nd i don't think it will change much, except that we now let people die, who are somehow not able to move a few steps to the left. Teching people new encounters will not be an issue here. letting them run into things that will kill them, instead of correcting every mistake they do, should increase their learn effect. In open world metas it should not be the responsibility of the heal scourge, to make players win by pulling them out of easy avoidable mechanics.

The change had to happen for years, because it is broken, and it invalidates mechanics way to hard.... same honestly goes for things like distort... but this is about scourge.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

13 hours ago, Joie.6084 said:

Necromancer

• Extirpate: This skill no longer inflicts Extirpation and instead inflicts weakness.
• Rending Claws: Increased the damage coefficient per hit from 0.6 to 0.7 in PvE only.
• Ghastly Claws: Increased the power coefficient per hit from 0.5 to 0.575 in PvE only.
• Unholy Feast: Increased the power coefficient from 2.0 to 2.5 in PvE only.
• Unholy Burst: Increased the power coefficient from 1.0 to 1.5 in PvE only.
• Consume Conditions: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
• Signet of the Locust: Reduced the cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP only.
• Plague Signet: Reduced the cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Dark Pursuit: This skill no longer increases the cooldown of Dark Path.
• Life Transfer: Reduced the cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds. Increased the bleeding duration from 2 seconds to 3 seconds.
• Tainted Shackles: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
• Overflowing Thirst: Increased the life force per strike from 1% to 1.5%.
• Unholy Martyr: Increased the life force per condition removed from 3% to 7% in PvP only.
• Transfusion: This trait no longer teleports downed allies to the user. This trait no longer increases the cooldown of Garish Pillar in WvW.

Reaper

• Soul Eater: The healing from this trait can now heal the player while they are using Reaper Shroud. Healing while in shroud has reduced effectiveness in PvE.
• Blighter's Boon: Increased the base healing from 103 to 133.

Harbinger

• Blight: Reduced the health percentage decrease from 1.5% to 1% in PvP only.

The two things that I don't like are the Extripate and Transfusion changes.  Removing one of the only methods left to combat the boon spam in PvP and WvW, and one that's brand new on top of that, seems excessive. Especially removing one that's so easily overloaded.  This change could be fine if you're removing it because it's overloaded instantly and doesn't do anything, but if it's going because you think it's too powerful, I beg you to reconsider.

Transfusion, on the other hand, has always been the primary reason you want to bring a Scourge as your healer over another profession.  You certainly don't bring it for superior boon coverage or utility outside of resurrection.  Removing the teleport on it to pull allies out of death zones is also removing what little utility Scourge really has (that and good condition cleansing).  If you must remove it in competitive modes because it is so strong, do so, but leave the teleport in PvE.

Edited Saturday at 09:24 AM by Drarnor Kunoram.5180

[FrancisN.9276]

5 hours ago, Jeyzer.1605 said:

Yeah, surprised at how they tried to paint this as a QoL buff when it's a huge CC nerf for Thieves in PvE.

I am aghast that they said the reason for this nerf was to give us access to an evade skill - while we have already have staff 5 as a more controlled evade and 3 endurance bars.

[Serapis.7240]

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Heal Scourge has been deleted from the game.

ok bye. I'll just play Genshin then.

[shinkamalei.2574]

17 hours ago, Joie.6084 said:

General

• Celestial equipment will no longer grant concentration or expertise while in a WvW map.
• Revealed: Increased the duration in WvW to match PvP.

YES, YES, YES, YES X10000000. Thank you. Cele is a difficult thing to balance but I definitely agree in competitive modes like wvw it doesn't need that. But even more so, THANK YOU FOR THE REVEAL BUFF.

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Elementalist

Tempest

• "Wash the Pain Away!": This skill now removes a condition from allies on every pulse.
• Rebound: This skill now grants stability instead of fury.

Catalyst

• Spectacular Sphere: Increased the quickness duration from 2 seconds to 2.5 seconds in PvE only. Increased the might stacks from 5 to 8 in PvE only.
• Sphere Specialist: Increased the boon duration increase from 100% to 150% in PvE only. This trait now also allows the catalyst to gain energy while a jade sphere is deployed.

WtPA was an interesting change I didn't see coming but I don't mind it. Same with Rebound. BUT CATA CHANGES ON SPHERE SPECIALIST are exactly what I wanted. I play Heal Cata here and there and this made it a bit more viable to play ❤️ Thanks.

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Engineer

Scrapper

• Kinetic Accelerators: This trait now applies might in addition to quickness in PvE only.

Interesting. I'm not sure I need that. Fury/Swift would be great but might is fine too.

 

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Renegade

• Breakrazor's Bastion: Increased the base barrier when enhanced from 1,480 to 1,960.
• Soulcleave's Summit: Increased the healing when using a Legendary Renegade skill from 929 to 1,199.

Happy with this but not sure how much is needed. HAR wasn't too bad to me.

 

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Thief

• Shadow Sap: This skill is now ground targeted and will fire a projectile at the target location. When the missile lands, it will strike enemies and grant barrier, might, and protection to allies. The strike no longer inflicts weakness on enemies.
• Shadow Refuge: ... Increased the healing from 1,775 to 2,851.

Very interested to try Shadow Sap out. It was long suggested that this change happen and I'm hoping it does help. ❤️ And hoping Shadow Refuge is all modes. If so, it'll be great. And incoming is... NECRO

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Necromancer

Its ability to easily revive allies who are downed while out of position is something that we've been keeping an eye on for a while, and we see it as being too powerful. We still like Transfusion's ability to help revive allies, but we're removing the teleportation component to make it less of a guarantee

• Extirpate: This skill no longer inflicts Extirpation and instead inflicts weakness.
• Transfusion: This trait no longer teleports downed allies to the user. This trait no longer increases the cooldown of Garish Pillar in WvW.

 

HERE IS THE ONLY CLASS I'M MAD ABOUT. I do not know what you are thinking getting rid of a very cool mechanic from the very newly added spear, but that's ridiculous. We finally have a decent answer to boon balls (look at how many necros there are in WvW) and you remove it? Like what. No. It was also a cool mechanic. Potentially could've been used on PvE bosses as well. Maybe that's what you're worried about. But it takes thinking to do it right and at the best moment. It was great.

AND THEN THE WORST HAS YET TO COME. No. Enough. You want people to try content. I've already seen how scared people are to engage in fights in competitive modes because "they might die". Now you want to remove an AMAZING  teaching skill to help people see and learn from mechanics in pve. No. At that point, get rid of rezzing in the game at all. Extreme? That's what you're doing here. Negating this idea of a necromancer who can revive the dead (you are further removing this based on other nerfs in the past few years to the identity of the actual class). Practically by sheer will alone. It takes skill to position them right without killing them again. I've seen many HORRIBLE necromancers who pull whenever without any thought and get people killed instead. You might think that's a proper reason to get rid of the pull but iof they stay in what downed them, they will die instead. The more people die, the more likely they are to give up and give that content again. Including the new health sponge bosses or heavy mechanic bosses you are creating in a multitude of PvE instances (which I do enjoy immensely if mechanics are hard) but a large majority of people do not grasp it, are more casual, or have a general hard time with it to the point of giving up.

I have been teaching raids for several years now. Emboldened was a great addition but brining a scourge along on bosses so they get a chance to see and understand has been even more immeasurable. In higher skilled groups, they won't down as much if at all (minus maybe CMs or LCMs). This allows more understanding. It also gets them to the group so others can rez. I've also had a wonderful time having something refreshing and different whenever I do wish to play my necromancer (I have every healer). Why are you trying to limit the classes that do any bit of help in PvE? Why are you trying to destroy what makes it so unique?

Add to all of that, there are necro enjoyers who don't want to swap classes to play a healer. This class has such limited boon giving as it is, you are going for it's main function and uniqueness as a healer.  Essentially you are saying you do not care about the necromancer class' identity nor scourge's identity as it is. Even if it's a "training wheel" healer or the like.

You've already neutered this ability with your nerfing its rez capability once. Don't do it again.

ETA: If capable to separate them, do so in WvW. If not, then nuke the range. Ensure the pull range is small in WvW.

Edited Saturday at 12:39 PM by shinkamalei.2574

[DarkReaper.6187]

Just saw that transfusion nerf. In my mind TOF  runs gonna get more spicier. 

[sweetmesquite.5024]

The transfusion changes are a terrible decision. Res potential from well of blood was already nuked in a previous patch, as was the multi-pulse transfusion pull. Support scourge already lags its counterparts when it comes to providing stability, aegis, and other boons and utility. The shade duration change when alacrity was added was awful, but it's tolerably unpleasant. Barrier generation has been reduced patch after patch over the years. There are only two entire weapon skills across all sets that provide boons to allies (torch 5 and staff 2: might and regen, respectively) and necro has no dedicated support weapon, so why not finish off the heal spec entirely and remove the last remaining reason anyone would choose healscourge over any other heal spec.

I don't play WvW; I don't care about WvW. If transfusion is such a detriment to WvW, then just change it there. Isn't that why there's a balance split between the different gamemodes, so that a change to one won't necessarily kneecap it in another?

Axe changes are a meme at this point. Removing the extirpation mechanic from extirpate feels hilarious and not in a productive way.

But, while we're on the topic of spear: did necro really need another two-handed power melee weapon? If you're going to make changes to its functionality --like removing a mechanic named for the skill-- perhaps consider reworking it to fill a gap in the class: like a support weapon that can provide buffs to allies. Or even some tasty green numbers.

[FalsePromises.6398]

6 hours ago, Joie.6084 said:

• Rending Claws: Increased the damage coefficient per hit from 0.6 to 0.7 in PvE only.
• Ghastly Claws: Increased the power coefficient per hit from 0.5 to 0.575 in PvE only.
• Unholy Feast: Increased the power coefficient from 2.0 to 2.5 in PvE only.
• Unholy Burst: Increased the power coefficient from 1.0 to 1.5 in PvE only.

Are the devs not aware of how massive of a total joke buffs like this are? "Buff axe coefficients by small percent" is literally a running joke in necromancer communities, viewed as a waffling technique for when they're lacking knowledge or direction on how to patch up necromancer's flaws. Not that power necromancer is really needing anything in PvE right now, but there's certainly better fixes and QoL improvements that could be implemented in regards to spear.

Make Perforate higher priority cast and harder to interrupt with other spear skills, increase range on Perforate and Addle so they're more flexible and fluid with the rest of the kit, move Perforate recharge to Isolate instead of Distress so the reset won't bug out when triggered during Perforate's long aftercast. Matter of fact, if we're nerfing the questionable boon block component of Extirpate, I don't see a reason it needs to stay 240 radius either. In practical application, you're not wanting to get close on power necromancer unless you're in shroud or on greatsword. Spear doesn't have the raw cleave nor defensive area blinds of greatsword, so it needs more range to be used safely and effectively, like every other necromancer power weapon.

6 hours ago, Joie.6084 said:

• Transfusion: This trait no longer teleports downed allies to the user.

Possibly the worst thing I can think of for support necromancer after so many of their mechanics were counterbalanced due to this capability. Transfusion itself was nerfed from 2% to 1% in scourge specialization because of compounding revive mechanics that won't be possible any more. Well of Blood was reduced from 7% to 2% downstate revive per pulse because of it. Last Rites has 300 radius to play into transfusion pulling downstates closer. Dare I say, a lot of healscourge's design feels like it's given scraps to work with because they've been punished for having this capability.

Keep in mind, Transfusion doesn't elevate high tier players beyond what should be possible, it just gives a fighting chance back to players who fumble, which is especially beneficial to improving players' experience in open world meta bosses. Remove it in WvW exclusively if you need to, but in PvE I think it's a good thing to have, because Transfusion alone isn't going to save a group that can't perform to begin with. 

[Nezuralli.2794]

7 hours ago, Joie.6084 said:

• Transfusion: This trait no longer teleports downed allies to the user. This trait no longer increases the cooldown of Garish Pillar in WvW.

I can't imagine anyone's happy about this. Being the biggest selling point and most fun part of heal necro. At least move the effect to somewhere less spam-able like on elite or heal skill cast instead of removing it completely.

[raido.4073]

I'm Neutral to this patch, there are good changes and bad changes.

To limit "transfusion" teleportation a simple long duration debuff  (3mn for example) would do the trick instead of killing it.

Having no explanation concerning Necro spear nerf (a main feature of the recent expansion) and what compensation it will receive in the future for losing extirpation is unprofessional at best, right now the only strong point of Necro Spear is life siphon which can also be done by MH/OH sword (which also has mobility/boon rip/Fear CC) so now with Extirpation deleted Necro spear will become what people would call a Noob trap.

The hidden killer buff and vulnerability stack increase buff are nice, a change that could help thief condition having more build choice would be to integrate "Deadly ambush" Grandmaster trait from Trickery into "Potent poison" Grandmaster trait from Deadly Arts and replace it with a talent that could maybe provide alacrity or quickness or stability even if i dream on that last one.

Would be nice if elem spear and pistols got projectile finisher (20%) added to the different auto attack skill, for spear i can understand why since it's more of a power weapon (even if it make earth attunement crap) but isn't pistols a condi weapon ?

 

 

[Teknomancer.4895]

5 hours ago, NovaanVerdiano.6174 said:

Good. The teleport should've never have existed in the first place.

It's too strong and unhealthy for the game.

I've always thought the Necro and Mesmer rezzes were swapped at birth. Transfusion's teleport is very Mesmer-ish, and the temporary life thing is very much in Necro's wheelhouse.

[yellow.5826]

Hi, I appreciate the buffs on tempest. Sounds great! However I’m massively disappointed in the lack of changes to willbender. If anyone here has played wvw, you would know that the one class that is overpowered to the extreme is Willbender. Insane burst damage with mobility to flee enemies and condi cleanse its way through full zergs. It’s latest damage variant allows for it to down atleast 6 enemies with burst damage. I’m completely okay with the damage output as long as there is something sacrificed with regard to condi cleanse and mobility, because otherwise this build is just ruining the experience. 

[Doggie.3184]

Change the Thief Axe sound effect. It sounds awful and makes my ears bleed. 😤Or add mod support to let me change it myself.

You should also do the same fix to "Weakening Charge/Whirl" to "Leaping Death Blossom" and bring back regular Death Blossom. I hope WASD movement still functions during the spin.

[jpsssss.7530]

My unpopular opinion with will have knives pointed at me like the cat: Celestial was fine, nuker roamers are just babies that cry that they can't one tap literally everything. 

Save for the ranger build I fell in love with that kept me playing, the builds I use celestial on would probably be about the same if not more infuriating to fight with trailblazers. I was hoping to actually enjoy the game after the expansion as a small scale WvW-er, but I think i'm done.

[willow.8209]

i posted on the wrong thread my feedback is here:

 

[Kherae.2109]

Kinda neutral about transfusion. I get why they're doing it. I can understand about the 'health of the game' and all that. It being ridiculed as training wheels.
But...where's the compensation? As has been mentioned necro healer's main draw is this one capability. Healscourge, via transfusion, can hard-carry pug runs, sure, but what about reducing the dependency on it in the first place?

For example: Did you know that a scourge with 100% boon duration, on their own, with full alacrity uptime and Sinister Shroud from the spite traitline, can manage prot uptime 0.5s to 1s  buffer room on anyone other than themselves?  And that's with perfect shade placement and ally positioning. And I would like to think that people know about how herding squirrels goes. That's another point in transfusion's bag; it pulls the squirrels to the healer.

Sure, we have...spectral ring, which I still cannot personally make work for the prot portion. Supposedly it works? But otherwise...we're dependent on others to make up gaps in prot.

we also have no team stunbreak, our stability is a joke (one skill, and we have to walk through allies to grant it), and we have no resolution. Yes, we do have condition cleansing aplenty. We also have condition conversion, but that can be unreliable when you need specific boons because it's content dependent. We also don't have ally-swiftness unless we take Relic of Febe, as warhorn's swiftness is self-only.

 

The tl;dr: If you're gonna take away transfusion ress-pulls, give scourge better boon coverage. Protection and swiftness. And do your prot uptime testing on it without Eternal Life (Spite's top right trait).

[willow.8209]

11 minutes ago, jpsssss.7530 said:

My unpopular opinion with will have knives pointed at me like the cat: Celestial was fine, nuker roamers are just babies that cry that they can't one tap literally everything.

I agree. People cry about celestial or about "bunker builds" because they want to be able to roll over everything fast, but that's not balance. Giving people a counter to burst builds--which celestial had done--is balance. 

[RidleyDay.3056]

CmC once again showing why he isn't qualified for the position. Can you goofs fire this clown already? Every change here feels wrong. Zero important points were hit, weak things were nerfed, strong things were buffed. Is it an echo chamber over there? NOBODY agrees with these changes. What the hell are you doing?

Please consider someone else for the role of balance lead. CmC has done nothing but damage to the game.

[Sindex.9520]

I do have a question if we are going to start nerfing revival mechanics; does that mean in the future we have more dead people who won't resurrect during a open world boss fights?  Or will you start punishing people more due to them failing mechanics?  I mean we still have skill visual effects that block the visual ques on the ground.  Which seem to be a low priority to fix.  Not mention those ever so pesky bugs in strike missions and raids where certain phases overlap for some apparent reason.  Like Kaineng Overlook where the phase get overlapped after a wipe.  Or when certain effects or numbers stay on the squad when it goes into the next phase.

I would be a little less irritated if things were fixed first.  In PvE for boss encounters we should have clear and understandable telegraph of encounter with no clutter or buggy nonsense.

[Kelvin.5390]

I think if you want to remove teleport downed players on transfusion you should at least give us something in return, like a boon application (I suggest aegis or maybe some stability could be nice)  or better healing or rez potential.  Like, could be nice if heal harbinger was usable you know? Scourge gets back the cooldown for garish pillar in WvW but that's not much of a reassurance for pve players who get a nerf across the board. Also what's up with the change to extirpate? it gives weakness now? it wasn't even that strong of an effect to begin with lmao. I mean sure weakness is usable, I just find it funny you gave up on the extirpation effect so fast. eh, I don't really like the spear on necromancer anyway. I wished it was condi. At least it works good on condi reaper, so there's that. 

[PulsarianDevil.8125]

still waiting for anet to address the elephant in the room: boon balls

[Araska.9370]

I gave a looooong break a while back because Necro was routinely left in an awful place, because they were considered too good in WvW, which I didn't play much. Then there was the announcement that WvW and PvP and PvE would all have things balanced in just those places, and it worked out well from what I could tell.

So why, for Necromancer here, are the spear and pillar changes being done globally? Is Extirpation *really* that big of an issue in PvE? I found it neat to use in the fractals where the enemies would gain boons, but is that case really enough to justify literally deleting a new mechanic from the game entirely? Or are we just not willing to spilt balancing anymore? Same for Transfusion. Getting rid of 2 unique necromancer mechanics entirely, one of which is brand new, at the same time, is absolutely insane. Especially when it could just be balanced in the places where its actually a problem.