October 8 Balance Update Preview

[Elementalist Owner.7802]

EDIT: disregard this post.

Edited Friday at 09:32 PM by Elementalist Owner.7802

[Vizardlorde.8243]

No more  heal Scourge carry in Bone Skinner. Anet is telling pugs to "git gud" with the transfusion change. Can we at  least  get  back the  increased  healing  to downed allies  since  they don't get teleported anymore? Last time the trait got nerfed it was due to teleport being too good, now that it doesn't have teleport it should be restored to the previous amount healed.

Edited Friday at 09:06 PM by Vizardlorde.8243

[SlothPowah.1072]

(PvE) Transfusion is heal and hybrid scourge's class identity. It is the one thing it can do that other builds cannot. Removing its ability to pull will make its synergy with Well of Blood and Lesser Well of Blood completely meaningless.

Is its range the issue? Would it be more acceptable to reduce the range of the pull?

[roederich.2716]

55 minutes ago, devilspawn.5741 said:

• Transfusion: This trait no longer teleports downed allies to the user. This trait no longer increases the cooldown of Garish Pillar in WvW.

This is the core identity of heal scourge. Being really good at resing by pulling people to you and improving how fast you can res is a big part of what makes heal scourge fun. It used to just be a meme build that wouldn't bring any boons and people still played it since it was fun. I would strongly reconsider this change. Nerf the strength of the barrior. make the pull have a longer cooldown, or make the downed pull a skill of its own, but don't remove the pull altogether.

it was fun cause it made people able to ignore all sorts of game mechanics. humans like to have the path of lowest effort. that leads to people dont improve on their gaming and just learn no brainer rotations, as soon there comes content that needs mechanics to play nobody is used to this and things like "t4 fracs -100" occur. "we skip 100"...

[Xainou.1502]

Can we please just get some new balance devs? I'm sick of their personal hate for anything scourge.

 

First shades become a choire, making the big shade trait entirely obsolete. Then transfusion gets nerfed, restored somewhat after backlash.
Now it's nerfed again, and the next unique thing that made healscourge viable is going. In PVE?!

Explain how we're supposed to even play this. I'm still trying to make up for my lack of stabilty over other classes here, I don't even have the slot to bring rez signet to make up for this kitten nerf.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

Willbender once again not hit with the nerfhammer.

Ele still dead in wvw squads.

stealth still rampant in wvw.

This 'balance' patch is a bad joke.

We need less boons, more boon removals

we need less stealth

we need less willbender 

and we got nothing of this.

Obviously, noone at ANET even plays wvw - outside of big boon balls. 

[Maria Murtor.7253]

I agree with the general opinion about Heal Scourge's Transfusion (porting players): Please do NOT make this change in PvE. You will make the same mistake you already did with Heal Specter (F1 ranged resurrection) which literally sent this healing class into oblivion (seriously, I don't see anyone play this option anymore, neither in Fractals, Strikes or in Raids. I play it for the nostalgia from time to time. But it's just so bad in comparison than before).

The barrier is the bread of this build, the port is the butter. By removing the butter you will leave the player with dry bread. This class will lose its identity and will be niche again. Don't. Do. This. It is THE healer class to help new people come into raids. Vale Guardian, Sloth, Matthias, Desmina – you name it. Heal Scourge is a life insurance, a recovery option we have.  Experienced players will suffer from this for sure. But the biggest harm will be done to new players. Again: I ask you to NOT demolish this healer in the name of literally no reason (PvE). 

Edited Saturday at 02:05 PM by Maria Murtor.7253

[jozze.9532]

1 hour ago, skirtsan.6372 said:

Transfusion: This trait no longer teleports downed allies to the user. 

The ability to teleport players who are in a potentially hazardous zone via Transfusion was really, REALLY useful in instanced PvE and boss encounters. If it passes through then allied healers wouldn't have much chance reviving fallen squadmates. Signed, healer.

You can still use signet of undeath to instant rez downed players even in dangerous aoe just not rescue half the squad anymore.

Transfusion teleport was always a broken trait. I really liked playing it but it would always be overpowering. The biggest use of a heal scourge (the massive amount of barrier application) is still there. It will see play without the teleport, eventhough it will be less fun.

[Melumi.6432]

Most of the Engi changes are so tame, minimal and pointless... Are you fixing Spear 2? Are you looking at Bomb Kit? Mortar Kit? Turrets Gameplay? Elixir Gun? Are you going to fix Scrapper instead of forcefully funnelling it into being a semi-support? Can we get self-quickness (in pvp) so we can finally take other relics other than Chronomancer?

You're giving Flamethrower a stun break, but it barely does any damage in the first place, let alone actual burning. And why reduce the CD of Elixir X when the RNG ruins the skill anyway?

Please go to the Engi sub-forum and read what people have been asking forever. 😔

PvP issues post too:

 

Edited Friday at 09:12 PM by Melumi.6432
Grammar

[daw.4923]

2 minutes ago, Maria Murtor.7253 said:

I agree with the general opinion about Heal Scourge's Transfusion (porting players): Please do NOT make this change in PvE. You will make the same mistake you already did with Heal Specter (F1 ranged resurrection) which literally sent this healing class into oblivion (seriously, I don't see anyone play this option anymore, neither in Fractals, Strikes or in Raids. I play it for the nostalgia from time to time. But it's just so bad in comparison than before).

The barrier is the bread of this build, the port is the butter. By removing the butter you will leave the player with dry bread. This class will lose its identity and will be niche again. Don't. Do. This. It is THE healer class to help new people come into raids. Vale Guardian, Sloth, Matthias, Desmina – you name it. Heal Scourge is a life insurance, a recovery option we have.  Experienced will suffer from this for sure. But the biggest harm will be done to new players. Again: I ask you to NOT demolish this healer in the name of literally no reason (PvE). 

I though that bread was  perma 10k barrier and butter was portal...now you got some salt for free 🤣

[Poki.8235]

1 hour ago, Joie.6084 said:

Thief

This update includes a couple of significant quality-of-life improvements for the thief's staff and scepter weapons. First, Weakening Charge will no longer have a movement component, meaning that players are free to move during its casting time. We've also changed Shadow Sap into a ground-targeted skill to give scepter-wielding thieves a way to support their team without needing to target allies. Our goal with these changes is to improve the fluidity of the weapons and make them more enjoyable to play. We've also updated Helmet Breaker to only be usable a single time before flipping back to Debilitating Arc, giving more access to the defensive evade. This is part of a set of changes targeted at improving staff's usability in competitive modes.

• Shadow Sap: This skill is now ground targeted and will fire a projectile at the target location. When the missile lands, it will strike enemies and grant barrier, might, and protection to allies. The strike no longer inflicts weakness on enemies.
• Orchestrated Assault: Reduced the damage increase from 33% to 7% in WvW and PvP.
• Harrowing Storm: Reduced the torment duration from 6 seconds to 4 seconds in WvW and PvP.
• Debilitating Arc: Reduced the initiative cost from 5 to 4 in PvP and WvW.
• Helmet Breaker: This skill can no longer be used multiple times in a row. Increased the power coefficient from 0.6 to 1.1 in PvP and WvW only. Reduced the initiative cost from 3 to 2 in PvP and WvW.
• Dust Strike: Increased the power coefficient per hit from 0.2 to 0.35 in PvP and WvW.
• Weakening Charge: This skill is now named Weakening Whirl. This skill no longer moves the player.
• Cluster Bomb: Increased the power coefficient from 1.45 to 2.25 in PvE only.
• Shadow Refuge: Reduced the cooldown from 48 seconds to 40 in PvP and WvW. Reduced the stealth duration per pulse from 3 to 2.5 seconds in PvP and WvW. Increased the healing from 1,775 to 2,851.
• Even the Odds: Increased the vulnerability stacks from 5 to 10.
• Sundering Shade: Increased the vulnerability stacks from 5 to 10.
• Hidden Killer: Increased the duration from 2 seconds to 4 seconds.

Specter

• Well of Sorrow: This skill now pulses conditions in a specific order. It will pulse torment, bleeding, torment, poison, and then torment.

I disagree with the Helmet Breaker change in PvE. I don't know about PvP or WvW, but in PvE a Daredevil already has plenty of dodges and I find the utility of occasionally being able to spam Helmet Breaker as a CC higher then having more evades. This is especially since Debilitationg Arc costs 4 initiative, so doing 2 Helmet Breakers went from costing 8 initiative to 12 and doing 3 Helmet Breakers changed from 10 to 18.

Weakening Charge change is good, though it's also a bit sad since there was potential in using a Relic of Stormsinger if it was buffed, but now that synergy is dead. It's not like it was worth it anyway, so I'll take the no animation locking.

I hope Well of Sorrow will now have good damage. The current design is pretty silly with you being punished for using it on an enemy that has all the listed condies by having it do the second lowest condi application it can. I'm really hoping for something that can rival Thousand Needles cause preparations are a bit annoying, but I'm probably getting my hopes up too high.

Now if I can add just a random thing unrelated to these changes, I'd like it if Steal and Deadeye's Mark in PvE could give the steal skill even if the F1 gets evaded or blocked or hits an invulnerable enemy. This would be a nice QoL.

 

[Campioneri.7601]

1 hour ago, Joie.6084 said:

Utility Goggles: This skill now applies protection in addition to its previous effects.

Please don't forget to add an upgraded version for when you're running the Gadgeteer trait, since this new normal version is the current traited skill.

[Degs.5148]

Without the teleport on Transfusion, there is *no* reason not to play a more complete healer in PvE.

You already killed necro's boon corrupt, something I'd argue was a core component of the class and class identity.  You killed the ability to pull condis from other players, which wasn't a gigantic portion of the class, but was unique and cool.  You unnecessarily messed with shade duration to make alacrity possible to generate when there was already a *perfect* GM trait that could have been used (that is still dead, btw, a year and a half later).
 
I'd like to maybe direct your attention, if I may, to the fact that necro doesn't have a support weapon. Now, without Transfusion, there's what?  Sand swell?  Cool story, man. 

 

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

1 hour ago, Joie.6084 said:

Transfusion: This trait no longer teleports downed allies to the user. This trait no longer increases the cooldown of Garish Pillar in WvW

No more teleport? Now my reaper can finally take this trait since I don't have to worry about porting allied downed INTO the enemy group when using it. This seems like a nerf to scourge but a buff to reapers (Edit; who are looking for sustain over condi cleanse)

Edited Friday at 09:30 PM by Forgotten Legend.9281

[Mike.7983]

10 minutes ago, Xainou.1502 said:

Can we please just get some new balance devs? I'm sick of their personal hate for anything scourge.

 

First shades become a choire, making the big shade trait entirely obsolete. Then transfusion gets nerfed, restored somewhat after backlash.
Now it's nerfed again, and the next unique thing that made healscourge viable is going. In PVE?!

Explain how we're supposed to even play this. I'm still trying to make up for my lack of stabilty over other classes here, I don't even have the slot to bring rez signet to make up for this kitten nerf.

Agree, sorry arena net but ever since Cal and Roy, mostly Cal.  Game has been a complete mess on balance, his favoring Ele/Guards is well noticed by the community and every update post is massively negative in disgust.  Calling for Cal to step away from class dev.

[HawaiianDreads.5473]

14 minutes ago, Elementalist Owner.7802 said:

Warrior spear not getting nerfed in WvW/PvP is insane. People are hitting 17k+ AoEs at 900 range with easy access to unblockable effects.

It's also completely broken in PvP with ~5 warriors in high level ranked games/tournaments being the norm now.

 

I understand you want spears to be good but we are reaching exploitative levels of P2W at this point.

It was already nerfed on Sept 10th just 3 days ago. You want to nerf it even more? At that point you might as well delete the weapon.

[torbal.3614]

Everyone please stop crying about Transfusion. Learn to use your Signet of Undeath for once. You can still have your "fun of saving a downed player in a hazard" without single-handedly carrying a pack of incompetents. People can still make mistakes AND can still have their second chance, but being able to provide them with a 100th chance was ridiculous. It's a very good change.

Edited Friday at 09:19 PM by torbal.3614

[Nandafowfa.4295]

Ranger's spear not getting touched?
That's sad. The biggest selling point of JW was the Spears and Warclaw rework but when it comes to ranger's spear the weapon is just bad. There are 0 reasons to use it over any other weapon and the damage is just too low. 

Also, what about two-hand training? It's doesnt seem to be working on on land spears. 

[Geoff Fey.1035]

2 minutes ago, HawaiianDreads.5473 said:

It was already nerfed on Sept 10th just 3 days ago. You want to nerf it even more? At that point you might as well delete the weapon.

I was just about to reply to them--you're 100% correct.

Unblockable effect was removed from Skill 5 and Skill 4 was altered to need the first hit for the rest to stick.

[JMDhouse.7162]

1 hour ago, torbal.3614 said:

Everyone please stop crying about Transfusion. Learn to use your Signet of Undeath for once. You can still have your "fun of saving a downed player in a hazard" without single-handedly carrying a pack of incompetents. People can make mistakes AND can still have their second chance, but being able to provide them with a 100th chance was ridiculous. It's a very change.

signet of undeath is a chunk of your health for 1 person every 75s without alac... it does not compare to 5 people every 15s, I can agree the pull might need a nerf and people should learn but lets not act like signet of undeath is the same thing 

[Weggle.3981]

1 minute ago, torbal.3614 said:

Everyone please stop crying about Transfusion. Learn to use your Signet of Undeath for once. You can still have your "fun of saving a downed player in a hazard" without single-handedly carrying a pack of incompetents. People can still make mistakes AND can still have their second chance, but being able to provide them with a 100th chance was ridiculous. It's a very good change.

Go ahead and come up with some reasons one might use necro over druid with this change.

[who want blood.8765]

14 minutes ago, Xainou.1502 said:

First shades become a chore, making the big shade trait entirely obsolete. Then transfusion gets nerfed, restored somewhat after backlash.
Now it's nerfed again, and the next unique thing that made healscourge viable is going. In PVE?!

You're also forgetting the Death of Epidemic. i'm still salty about that.

I agree though, Transfusion should remain as it is in PvE, Since EoD the only reason i touch the scourge spec in all 3 modes is for heal scourge, with this change Scourge will be played as much for me as Core Necro. 

[Echostorm.9143]

2 minutes ago, torbal.3614 said:

Everyone please stop crying about Transfusion. Learn to use your Signet of Undeath for once. You can still have your "fun of saving a downed player in a hazard" without single-handedly carrying a pack of incompetents. People can make mistakes AND can still have their second chance, but being able to provide them with a 100th chance was ridiculous. It's a very change.

It is fun for us, saving your group is fun.  Not everyone is a "git gud" hardcore gamer, we're here to have fun.  If you don't like it don't use in your groups but it clearly means a lot of the rest of us and it's screwed up to take that much glee in something that is making other people miserable. 

[andreiblue.8231]

I hate the changes for necro. You removed the only unique aspect from necro spears and also got rid of the only thing that made heal scourge worth using. Without that healscourge mainly gives barrier with only 2 healing skills and can't even properly give vigor, swiftness or stability. Making it from one of the most useful (in certain situations) to the worst healers.

[Gyo Del Nord.3082]

I guess heal scourge in PvE will be abandoned…shame…