So what are you doing to help when the enemy boon ball rocks on by in WvW?

[Sandzibar.5134]

Do you try and play some sort of staff bruiser build? attempting to AOE into the enemies CC minefield of AOE death? whilst also wondering where your stab is.

Are you playing some sort of scepter minstrel heal spectre?

Do you vainly try and tag stuff with shortbow poison fields in a 100% anti-projectile weapon meta?

Are you just continuing to use your roaming DD build to pick off their tail stragglers?

Something else?

Looking for inspiration.

 

 

 

[Asur.9178]

Play a different, better class for the gamemode.

Unless you're planning to be like 90% of the thieves playing Rifle DE with SA (or cele A/P DD with SA) and roam like a rat like ANet's balance team wants you to, don't waste your time and energy.

...and no, don't worry about cele being bad after Oct 8. The changes they proposed for cele is not enough to make cele irrelevant. Only people without a firm grasp of why cele is so strong (including the balance team 🤡) thinks the change will be enough.

Edited September 16 by Asur.9178

[kash.9213]

I have a few mostly generic (probably pretty close to raid builds) Specter templates that I adjust over time with one power Acro, one condi SA healing, and one condi D A. I usually have Scepter/Pistol on all of them on weapon swap because it's output and utility is kind of a workhorse and works with some traits and it gets used a lot in a moving fight especially with a team. I still take Sword/Dagger with that on the Acro Specter template because it's kind of made for WvW maps and managing an area but I'm trying to make Spear happen on the other two templates. 

I take all Wells and Roll for Initiative on all three templates right now. I normally have Traversing Dusk but also other Movement and Shadowstep traits for a feedback loop and Roll for Initiative was a hard choice to ditch Shadowstep for but it's very reflexive and can be aimed pretty instinctively and that's saved me from a lot of blob drives and focus pulls. 

All three are built for covering a team and being a general fixer-upper but the condi D A template leans a little into weaponizing my team and my Tether and trying to mess with the other sides composition with stuff like Relic of the Demon Queen. 

[Gazrul.3086]

I usually just target and nuke the overextended or straggling players. Or I focus their glass cannons to pressure them into defence. 

[bq pd.2148]

enemy ball would not be where i would go with my thief when i am in WvW, not my fight to participate in, map is huge and there is lots to do.
tho if they are bad and dont properly maintain projectile hate (are they then still a ball?) then power axe can punch nice holes into them.

[Palikka.8249]

I play as s/d DD or Core and i usually try bursting glasscannons. Most of the time i try burst down tail with hit and run tactic.

I really hope support Specter gets decent someday in WvW.

[MedievalThings.5417]

9 hours ago, Sandzibar.5134 said:

Do you try and play some sort of staff bruiser build? attempting to AOE into the enemies CC minefield of AOE death? whilst also wondering where your stab is.

Are you playing some sort of scepter minstrel heal spectre?

Do you vainly try and tag stuff with shortbow poison fields in a 100% anti-projectile weapon meta?

Are you just continuing to use your roaming DD build to pick off their tail stragglers?

Something else?

Looking for inspiration.

 

 

 

You're not there to fight the zerg, but you can be a great help by preventing the dead from rejoining the fight (or stragglers).  There are a lot of fights where there is no chance of stopping the enemy (SMC for example) but you can absolutely make them earn it.  And, if you have a small comp running around they should at least get a few kills which means a returning player for you to kill.  3 way fights in particular give you lots of things to kill as they return.  A lot of the time you lose the objective if you're outmanned anyway but even in those fights you can still get 10-30 kills with the other roamers picking apart the edges and stragglers.  Get a good enough bunch of solos preventing all returns and getting gates closed and you can win the battle due to attrition.  If you don't feel strong trying to pick off people solo with 3-5 others around you can skirt the edges of the enemy fight and pull out anyone who doesn't pay attention or without stability.  Shortbow with absorption sigil is a good way to make that happen.  Poison fields on downed players to stop signet resses is also super helpful.  Even in smaller group fights where the fight could go either way you can get a poison field down in the enemy group and just shadowstep in, dagger storm, shadowstep out.  It's amazing how well this actually works.

It also depends on who is on your team or what guilds are running around.  Because assuming the map isn't qued, it may be more beneficial to the team to just switch to a meta class/build and join the squad.  But not everyone likes to play that way.  Lately I've just stayed on daredevil and do the things I listed above.  If you want to get some good inspiration for how thief can be effective, I recommend https://www.twitch.tv/pnoyshinobi.  Absolutely insane thief stuff.  I'm on their link this match, so having watched them stream and play near them a lot outnumbered the past couple weeks has definitely improved my play.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

Kill the downs, use the fear monger build and try to promote the kitten thing to aid in the fight.

 

 

The more of these stops you have the more it'll hurt boonballs.

[ZvolTx.3165]

For large scale, I've been running either the rending shade power a/p and spear bound build, that I've been playing since axe came out, or a spear and sc/p rending shade power specter build. 

 

The a/p is fantastic against groups without solid projectile hate, and I have literally downed 5 people at once countless times now with the spike. Since spear came out, it made a perfect swap for it too, at least for melee, where spear 2-2-3-stealth attack repeat (w/ other combos as applicable) leads to heavy damage, immob, and 4-6 boonrip/steal per cycle, all pbAoE. 

 

Specter build with sc/p and spear let's you play more of a hybrid power/support boonrip build. Use sc/p 3 to quickness the commander or other choice targets. Or offensively, especially against projectile hate heavy enemies.  The beam will go through those blocks, it's great to slow enemy supports to mess with their casting and cripple the enemy group. Also you can use /p 5 smoke field to combo with shroud 2 & 5 blast fields to stealth your allies. 

Use spear if in melee if you're not sticking on support with sc/p. Same combo as above, 2-2-3-(stealth)1-repeat. Good damage, great boonrip. Use shroud 2+4 on melee spikes, spam 1 with tag as your shrouded ally for protection to 8 ppl.  I'm still experimenting around, but that's the core of what I've been messing with to decent success lately. Spear is actually pretty fun for large scale, you just need to be running with a bit of defensive stats to not get instantly evaporated. 

[Dean Calaway.9718]

On 9/16/2024 at 10:41 AM, Sandzibar.5134 said:

So what are you doing to help when the enemy boon ball rocks on by in WvW?

Have you tried hitting it with your own boon ball team... ?

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

I have a couple of builds for when I'm expressly playing inside a group (I still find sword dagger daredevil better for fighting around a group and picking off randos, I'm assuming you mean running with the tag itself). 

First build is my healing minstrel deadeye build, the links in my sig. The reason I play deadeye over daredevil is because of the stability issue you mentioned: if you can't rely on your team for boons and heals, you're straight up better off bringing deadeye than specter. Deadeye gives me extra target drops through stealth cantrips, a reliable gtfo set in rifle, and because deadeye isn't locked into taking trickery I can take acrobatics for the extra self sustain. That evade from instant reflexes on shadow meld has saved my butt more than once. I think I'm using relic of rivers at the moment but I change it a lot, using relic of the flock with SA 112 and skelk venom heal is a powerful group heal and barrier if you can afford not to run condi cleanse and withdraw. 

Edit: forgot to mention, you can use Sc/P 3 on allies without breaking stealth. That's the other reason I favour deadeye: if I'm getting focussed by a ranger or another thief I can stealth up and carry on healing. This is also the reason for taking shadow rejuvenation over the protection on stealth, it fuels more barrier spam as you avoid other stuff. Also it's great for setting up the sneak attack which can heal an ally for 8k easy, but revealing yourself at the wrong time can get you killed. 

The other build I use in groups is a double staff build, I got told it was the current GvG flavour of the month by the last guild I was running with. Marauder gear with scholar runes, quick pockets, bound, critical strikes, energy and hydromancy on both staves, you can probably work out the rest. I pretty much only run this when I'm either sure I can jump in, spike and gtfo or if I know I have a pocket healer. 

Edited September 27 by Jugglemonkey.8741

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

same with rending shade, spreading the build around via forums and demonstrations. commanded with it A/D DE Rending shade this morning for 2 hours.
full minstrel healspecter barrier support, with atrocity relic makes self sustain a breeze AND hits a bit harder for added bag farming.

[kash.9213]

7 hours ago, ZvolTx.3165 said:

For large scale, I've been running either the rending shade power a/p and spear bound build, that I've been playing since axe came out, or a spear and sc/p rending shade power specter build. 

 

The a/p is fantastic against groups without solid projectile hate, and I have literally downed 5 people at once countless times now with the spike. Since spear came out, it made a perfect swap for it too, at least for melee, where spear 2-2-3-stealth attack repeat (w/ other combos as applicable) leads to heavy damage, immob, and 4-6 boonrip/steal per cycle, all pbAoE. 

 

Specter build with sc/p and spear let's you play more of a hybrid power/support boonrip build. Use sc/p 3 to quickness the commander or other choice targets. Or offensively, especially against projectile hate heavy enemies.  The beam will go through those blocks, it's great to slow enemy supports to mess with their casting and cripple the enemy group. Also you can use /p 5 smoke field to combo with shroud 2 & 5 blast fields to stealth your allies. 

Use spear if in melee if you're not sticking on support with sc/p. Same combo as above, 2-2-3-(stealth)1-repeat. Good damage, great boonrip. Use shroud 2+4 on melee spikes, spam 1 with tag as your shrouded ally for protection to 8 ppl.  I'm still experimenting around, but that's the core of what I've been messing with to decent success lately. Spear is actually pretty fun for large scale, you just need to be running with a bit of defensive stats to not get instantly evaporated. 

Agree on Spear 2-2-3 in group fights. It keeps a good tempo for its impact. 

Stupid side note. Hitting Spear 3a when I think I'm still on my other kit gets me as shook as suddenly getting my earbuds ripped off my head and I've found a few nice cliffs that way. 3a is a lot of fun with other movement skills in Action Cam though. 

[Jobber.6348]

Play Seal Area and wires like a true degenerate with Specter for survivability 

[CafPow.1542]

Classic 360 and walk away.

i prefer me some deadeye, eventually DD and struggling already on thiefs „natural habitat“…

 

last time i roamed around a boonball with lots of projectile hate. If i landed 2 shots in 2 minutes it was a lot.

later i had the same scene on my staff weaver and the numbies where insane. Very satisfying. One has to be a special kind of being to succesfully play thief in a zerg. Respect. I can’t.

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

On 9/16/2024 at 2:41 AM, Sandzibar.5134 said:

Do you try and play some sort of staff bruiser build? attempting to AOE into the enemies CC minefield of AOE death? whilst also wondering where your stab is.

Are you playing some sort of scepter minstrel heal spectre?

Do you vainly try and tag stuff with shortbow poison fields in a 100% anti-projectile weapon meta?

Are you just continuing to use your roaming DD build to pick off their tail stragglers?

Something else?

Looking for inspiration.

 

 

 

For group WvW I run a version of this usually. It's the juicer build for specter. I have a few things changed, but it works quite well... especially if there are subs.

I'd suggest binding a set personal target button and select personal target for this build.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/149173-a-build-the-juicer-healbarrier-support-wvw-specter/

[kash.9213]

On 9/28/2024 at 4:50 AM, CafPow.1542 said:

Classic 360 and walk away.

i prefer me some deadeye, eventually DD and struggling already on thiefs „natural habitat“…

 

last time i roamed around a boonball with lots of projectile hate. If i landed 2 shots in 2 minutes it was a lot.

later i had the same scene on my staff weaver and the numbies where insane. Very satisfying. One has to be a special kind of being to succesfully play thief in a zerg. Respect. I can’t.

If you're not going in and out of Stealth constantly or looking all thief and stuff in the other sides peripheral than you might not catch too much aggro.

If you have something to refill your Health pool with at least regularly if not largely, you might pick up on how zergs breath and plot and most stuff you can kind of casually nudge out of the way of until a squad actually focus you or one of their drives is going right over your lane. When you're tuned into their side and your sides body language and flow, you'll probably know what circles and stuff you can hang out in and don't have to spend resource pools on and you can kind of stay just ahead of everything. 

If you can rip boons and hit enough Health pool to cause a panic maybe from Firebrand or someone who looks like a go-getter in their composition in those two shots you landed then that's going to be an impact, and it might be a snowballing impact. It's sometimes enough to interrupt them for a second and cause a small panic reaction.

I'm usually in response range of a commander but a lot of our skills move in a way that crosses and weaves in and out of your sides lane and some commanders I know are going to get me killed so I don't stay like right on top of them usually, plus I might have to be someone's 2v? split for a second. Between weapon kit skill animations, dodge, Wells, and whatever, positioning and keeping up with a brawl or moving fight can feel kind of like Dance Dance Revolution in the way a lot of thief animation range and arches use space. It can feel a little weird not being right in that squads core on the commander, until it feels weird being there and not out in tether or shadowstep range instead.

Edited Monday at 04:19 PM by kash.9213

[CafPow.1542]

15 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

If you're not going in and out of Stealth constantly or looking all thief and stuff in the other sides peripheral than you might not catch too much aggro.

If you have something to refill your Health pool with at least regularly if not largely, you might pick up on how zergs breath and plot and most stuff you can kind of casually nudge out of the way of until a squad actually focus you or one of their drives is going right over your lane. When you're tuned into their side and your sides body language and flow, you'll probably know what circles and stuff you can hang out in and don't have to spend resource pools on and you can kind of stay just ahead of everything. 

If you can rip boons and hit enough Health pool to cause a panic maybe from Firebrand or someone who looks like a go-getter in their composition in those two shots you landed then that's going to be an impact, and it might be a snowballing impact. It's sometimes enough to interrupt them for a second and cause a small panic reaction.

I'm usually in response range of a commander but a lot of our skills move in a way that crosses and weaves in and out of your sides lane and some commanders I know are going to get me killed so I don't stay like right on top of them usually, plus I might have to be someone's 2v? split for a second. Between weapon kit skill animations, dodge, Wells, and whatever, positioning and keeping up with a brawl or moving fight can feel kind of like Dance Dance Revolution in the way a lot of thief animation range and arches use space. It can feel a little weird not being right in that squads core on the commander, until it feels weird being there and not out in tether or shadowstep range instead.

Yeah i know (kinda) and i am used to separate players or lure them away with my tempest on daggers.

i just am bad at thief. Also because a lot of times i don’t even think about stealth. I guess i would need to try more and learn more. It was just frustrating with the amount of projectile-hate they had that it felt like i am just watching a movie xD

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

1 hour ago, CafPow.1542 said:

Yeah i know (kinda) and i am used to separate players or lure them away with my tempest on daggers.

i just am bad at thief. Also because a lot of times i don’t even think about stealth. I guess i would need to try more and learn more. It was just frustrating with the amount of projectile-hate they had that it felt like i am just watching a movie xD

then come to the discord!! - check the recruitment section and find my recent post on recruitment, i dont mind and love to help people learn the class! many top tier fight guilds have seen some of my builds like [Bags]/[Farm], [CC] (Crisis Control) and such! I even have a "lithril talks about thief" swear jar xD

[kash.9213]

2 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

Yeah i know (kinda) and i am used to separate players or lure them away with my tempest on daggers.

i just am bad at thief. Also because a lot of times i don’t even think about stealth. I guess i would need to try more and learn more. It was just frustrating with the amount of projectile-hate they had that it felt like i am just watching a movie xD

I've never been great at it, that's why I check out the body language and pan camera constantly to check the area and outer area and all that so I can to act ahead of the plotting. I have no problem bouncing if I know it's going to be a stupid fight and not in the fun way. I'm not trying to waypoint the whole time.

On a side note, even with Specter now, Rifle and DE Rifle was the most secure in big fights I've felt. Apart from M7, Death's Retreat range and arch usually cleared most stuff (DR can scale a lot of objects also like fences and large rocks and can climb topography. Just have to spend some time trying it places to get a feel for when you can.) and I'd usually have the budget to hit two of them in a row if I needed to and that usually got me in a range that makes them say forget it, plus it's a Leap and I try to have one if I can in squads for fields. It's also very fluid if you can arch it and land it by instinct without using About Face after getting used to it. Rifle was a better staff than Staff for me. 

I always forget about stealth in zerg fights until I'm really wanting a Tactical Strike or something. I tried to use it on my Heal template to give barrier but it wasn't great payoff in the moment for the budget. Rifle stealth should be harder for zergs to shut down or deny.

Edited Monday at 07:06 PM by kash.9213

[CafPow.1542]

7 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

then come to the discord!! - check the recruitment section and find my recent post on recruitment, i dont mind and love to help people learn the class! many top tier fight guilds have seen some of my builds like [Bags]/[Farm], [CC] (Crisis Control) and such! I even have a "lithril talks about thief" swear jar xD

I consider it. Tho i really love my ele but that doesn’t mean learning new stuff is bad. Thx.

6 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

On a side note, even with Specter now, Rifle and DE Rifle was the most secure in big fights I've felt

I felt quite safe too honestly and didn’t die. Basically everything thief wants in wvw has some stunbreak and the mobility can be super crazy so i got away well.

 

6 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

always forget about stealth in zerg fights until I'm really wanting a Tactical Strike or something. I tried to use it on my Heal template to give barrier but it wasn't great payoff in the moment for the budget. Rifle stealth should be harder for zergs to shut down or deny

Well that one time (i had my rifle and roamed around the zerg) there where prolly a dozen ventari bubbles and whatnot.

i mean popping the rifle samage isn’t hard mechanically. (Pop 2 until malice, stealth, press 1).

the timing, positioning and target selection is.

i play staff weaver too and „target selection“ for example is quite irrelevant since you carpet bomb anything anyways 😄

[kidbuu.4071]

On 9/16/2024 at 1:47 PM, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Kill the downs, use the fear monger build and try to promote the kitten thing to aid in the fight.

 

 

The more of these stops you have the more it'll hurt boonballs.

I think with the introduction of spear and ax, there's some viable Boon strip models that are out there now. There's been some builds with spear that I've been floating around. A popular YouTuber has introduced a build with celestial stats (still viable after October update) that's more of a roamer style. Just keep in mind if you're going to be running a spear strip build weapon skill 3 does have a cadence and you need to make sure that you slot in the appropriate gear that's tanky enough to survive certain engagements such as ritualist trailblazer and yes, even celestial. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

I get real toxic with it when I'm wvwing.  I pick one person in the boonball to harass and focus them specifically instead of trying to do anything to the larger movement 💀

On 9/30/2024 at 2:05 PM, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

then come to the discord!! - check the recruitment section and find my recent post on recruitment, i dont mind and love to help people learn the class! many top tier fight guilds have seen some of my builds like [Bags]/[Farm], [CC] (Crisis Control) and such! I even have a "lithril talks about thief" swear jar xD

Oh look a thief guild. I should poke my head in there