Forum Reactions [merged]

[Ashen.2907]

@STIHL.2489 said:However, a lack of headway on your part, might have something to do with you invalidating your whole point, by responding to posts that are in disagreement with you. now, if you came to a forum to just press buttons as opposed to seeking to engage in open dialogue, then you missed the whole idea what even coming to a forum is about, it's about discussing things, if you you did not come here for that, then maybe you should spend your time doing something else.. like playing the game.

And yet the entire premise of this thread was that, if the disagree button was to be removed so too should be the single button to agree. How is that open dialogue that we should be coming to these forums to find encouraged by someone who just presses a single button?

[Parlance.9584]

Removing the down vote option is an objectively good idea and im really glad they did it.

[Leo G.4501]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:\The only recourse is to remove all voting options and leave silence as a mode of disagreement.

Just in case you didn't know, or perhaps forgot, but you can still disagree with anyone you like as verbosely as you like, it's called a Forum Post. You just can't do it behind the facade of anonymity.

And as a fellow American, I can honestly say, No owning up your feelings and putting it out here bravely, preferring to hide behind an anonymous function to speak for you is about as UnAmerican as you can get.

Just saying on that last bit.

You did not read my post fully. Otherwise you wouldn't be putting forth the same tired countered argument and expect me to write a full comment to correctly represent my argument and counter yours.

Simply put, silent agrees are meaningless when you can only make a post that is promptly ignored because it is not agreement.

LOL, and yet.. here we are. having a Discussion.. because we disagree. Imagine that. right here, right now, you'e proving yourself wrong, because you responded to me because I disagreed with you, and was brave enough to say it to your face, and not feel the coddling need to hide behind a anonymous "I don't like that" button.

Look at us using the forum as intended.

And neither of us are getting anything out of it except wasting more time saying we disagree with each other and not making any headway into getting our point across to the other.

Hmm, i wonder if there was a quicker way to get the same idea across...maybe a switch or...button that would prevent me from needing to repeat myself or tear down the same argument over and over again...

Well the fastest way would be to just move along and not get involved.

However, a lack of headway on your part, might have something to do with you invalidating your whole point, by responding to posts that are in disagreement with you. now, if you came to a forum to just press buttons as opposed to seeking to engage in open dialogue, then you missed the whole idea what even coming to a forum is about, it's about discussing things, if you you did not come here for that, then maybe you should spend your time doing something else.. like playing the game.

Silence does not mean disagreement, however. That's what you're not understanding. Also responding to your post is not agreement which you are completely misinterpreting.

And it corroborates nothing considering i feel my time being wasted with this pointless back and forth. Not only that but your strawman (i only come to the forums to press a button? You're trying to say all people who disagree and used the feature do the same which completely invalidates your argument but here i am wasting my time with such a baseless argument but that's somehow a victory for forum discussion?) is only meant to divert the debate and no one has made a solid argument for keeping up votes which rests my case. Until you make such an argument, you've done nothing but derail the thread which is against forum rules.

[Haishao.6851]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Haishao.6851 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:How many more threads on the same topic do we need? :#

As I wrote before (twice):

The thumbs down feature would have been a good idea if it weren't for all the trolls who abused it. See, when there is an opinion posted, you have the right to disagree, of course. But often, it was used on posts that did not represent an opinion whatsoever, that were 100% neutral and contained mere information (no more, no less), only to troll the poster (and since it was made anonymous it was even easier to troll someone).

You still can disagree on something the old-fashioned way, by simply posting your counter-opinion, and I am certain many people who agree with you will respond with a thumbs up. :) It has the same effect, but is trollproofed. ;)

How do you even troll with thumbs down?You give someone a thumbs up and when you think they're happy about it you change it to a thumb down?I don't get it

It's pretty easy, find someone you don't like, and just "thumb down" all their posts, if you can get a friend or two, or maybe your whole guild involved. you can pretty much spam someone with Thumb's Down votes. Just a way to make people look or feel bad, petty childish antics is all. So removing the feature is more a mark on A-net realizing what fine upstanding community they have.. LOL.

But that's not trolling though. How many time has this happened?I don't think people in this game are so childish they would waste their time getting their guild to thumb down all comment of someone only to hurt their feeling.Also what stop people from gathering their guild to give thumbs up on topic that are generally disagreed by the community?Like lets say "HoT story is too hard" Only a few think so; until I pay 1 gold per thumbs up. There's 450 people in my guild. That's only 450gold to make anet think 450 people agree that HoT story is too hard.I don't think people would do that either, but I think there's a lot more chance of that happening than your scenario. Especially now without thumbs down.

Anet does have one of the finest upstanding community in MMOs.

@Parlance.9584 said:Removing the down vote option is an objectively good idea and im really glad they did it.

Opinions cannot be objective.

[Pixlboy.5296]

I think that it force people to verbalize their opinion, especially negative. Not just simple "no", "You're wrong" by giving thumbs down.If you don't like something, write it. Then people that also agree with you will give you thumb up to show the strength of your arguement.That's good.

That goes also for thumbs up, you don't have to write thousend posts repeating the same.

Just disagreeing goes nowhere and I've also seen thumbs down on post that weren't even negative.

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

@Leo G.4501 said:I'm in agreement.

As an American (and i do realize not everyone on these forums is American but the devs are stationed here) it feels like an infringement of my civil right, not because thumbs down was removed, but because the reason behind its removal is to police criticism that wasn't in any way inherently negative. And yes, i realize the forums do not follow anything regarding the US constitution but you'd expect someone who is from the country to have similar morals and values, i.e the devs and mods.

Considering the whole social and political climate, just removing thumbs down is an act of favouritism within the community who feel some discourse make a discussion better vs those who think simple dislikes is a negative environment. The only recourse is to remove all voting options and leave silence as a mode of disagreement. This would also mean removing the badge system as well. For someone who enjoys posting, reading and participation in the forums, this is a net loss but an apparently necessary one.

not sure if satire or serious

[Kravick.4906]

I am glad it is gone. The down vote button didn't really serve a purpose other than turning this board into a popularity contest. We're here to discuss topics, not have popularity contests. If all you ever hear is things you like and want to hear, you never get exposed to new ideas, and you'll never grow as a person. You don't have to like everything you see. If you don't like something, simply ignore it and don't respond. Its very simple.

[rapthorne.7345]

Reactions as a whole should be removed in my personal opinion. I get that positive reactions serve as positive reinforcement, but there will be a fair number of people who try to use them as a-pe­en inflators

[Haishao.6851]

@Pixlboy.5296 said:I think that it force people to verbalize their opinion, especially negative. Not just simple "no", "You're wrong" by giving thumbs down.If you don't like something, write it. Then people that also agree with you will give you thumb up to show the strength of your arguement.That's good.

That goes also for thumbs up, you don't have to write thousend posts repeating the same.

Just disagreeing goes nowhere and I've also seen thumbs down on post that weren't even negative.

You say we should write our disagreement, but suddenly when it comes to agreement, writing a thousand of posts repeating the same is bad.Can you please elaborate on this? Why is one good and the other bad?

Also you've seen posts that you think weren't negative getting thumbs down. They were obviously negative to people who gave it a thumb down.I see your post got a thumb up and it is not even positive.

[PseudoNewb.5468]

Thumbs down isn't speech. Speech is writing a counter argument and providing another view and interpretation of the matter at hand. Are up-votes speech? Not themselves, but you can see that they can amplify existing speech, they show concurrence among people. And, if with simply up votes, you can have two statements that compete with each other on the number of people who would concur with each, You could even have 3 separate statements or more. (While this competition doesn't change the validity of a logical argument, only logic and assumption validity does, this kind of competition is useful for subjective expression).

I disagree that up-votes and down-votes have the same meaning. Up-votes are backed up by the content of and are constrained to the original statements. So if there is up voting, then one can say multiple people carry this specific opinion/though, or something very similar. Down votes, or disagreement, however, indicates that the voter does not like the stated idea. This is vague because there can be many number of things counter to original statements. For augmentative stances, is there a logical fallacy? Is one of the number of assumptions wrong? For subjective comments, such as aesthetics, which one of the infinite multiples of other styles do you prefer? An up vote represents the presented idea, and down votes are representative of everything that is not the presented idea. This, 'everything else' is far too broad to have meaning.

[Pixlboy.5296]

@Haishao.6851 said:

@Pixlboy.5296 said:I think that it force people to verbalize their opinion, especially negative. Not just simple "no", "You're wrong" by giving thumbs down.If you don't like something, write it. Then people that also agree with you will give you thumb up to show the strength of your arguement.That's good.

That goes also for thumbs up, you don't have to write thousend posts repeating the same.

Just disagreeing goes nowhere and I've also seen thumbs down on post that weren't even negative.

You say we should write our disagreement, but suddenly when it comes to agreement, writing a thousand of posts repeating the same is bad.Can you please elaborate on this? Why is one good and the other bad?

Also you've seen posts that you think weren't negative getting thumbs down. They were obviously negative to people who gave it a thumb down.I see your post got a thumb up and it is not even positive.

Come on, it's simple, when you participate in a discussion or just passing by you probably read prievious post to some extend, when you agreeing with someone negative or positive (it doesn' matter), you give them thumbs up.Saying that's an opinion you could stand by.That's good I think. Sure you could also write this I guess np. But it would be better to add something new to the topic, negative or positive.I just personally like more concrete discussions when I'm not reading the same over and over again.On the other hand I've found similar opinions to mine that I just thumb up, feeling no point in repeating something that was already said but in my words.

Don't get me wrong for all I care the whole system could be removed ;)

[Ashen.2907]

@Kravick.4906 said:I am glad it is gone. The down vote button didn't really serve a purpose other than turning this board into a popularity contest. We're here to discuss topics, not have popularity contests.

A thumbs up button is as much a part of a popularity contest, if not more, than was a thumbs down.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Epphyx.5078 said:3) It promote the idea that only positive thoughts are allowed on the forum. But without criticism there's no progress only stagnation.

I don't think a "thumb down" is criticism. If you disagree with an opinion you can say why and engage in a productive discussion.On the other hand, if you agree with something you don't have to write an essay about it, in fact using a "thumbs up" instead of posting "yes I agree with you" helps the forums, less posts, less clutter, more meaningful posts.

[Ashen.2907]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Epphyx.5078 said:3) It promote the idea that only positive thoughts are allowed on the forum. But without criticism there's no progress only stagnation.

I don't think a "thumb down" is criticism. If you disagree with an opinion you can say why and engage in a productive discussion.On the other hand, if you agree with something you don't have to write an essay about it, in fact using a "thumbs up" instead of posting "yes I agree with you" helps the forums, less posts, less clutter, more meaningful posts.

I disagree.

[Abakk.9176]

@Epphyx.5078 said:As the title says, I do think that removing the thumb down was a bad idea.1) You did it on the day one Anet post was massively down voted. Most definitly a coincidence but it will stick in people's mind as "they did it so we can't express our disagreement so easily". So bad timing.2) You did not remove Helpfull nor thumb up. If I have to type a message to express how I disagree with a post, with don't I have to type a message to express how I agree ?3) It promote the idea that only positive thoughts are allowed on the forum. But without criticism there's no progress only stagnation.

You are free to add your negative response in a message.

and if you feel that positive is now outweighing negative then kudo's to that. There is enough negative in the world and it is outweighing positive by a huge margin.

[Ashen.2907]

@Abakk.9176 said:

@Epphyx.5078 said:As the title says, I do think that removing the thumb down was a bad idea.1) You did it on the day one Anet post was massively down voted. Most definitly a coincidence but it will stick in people's mind as "they did it so we can't express our disagreement so easily". So bad timing.2) You did not remove Helpfull nor thumb up. If I have to type a message to express how I disagree with a post, with don't I have to type a message to express how I agree ?3) It promote the idea that only positive thoughts are allowed on the forum. But without criticism there's no progress only stagnation.

You are free to add your negative response in a message.

and if you feel that positive is now outweighing negative then kudo's to that. There is enough negative in the world and it is outweighing positive by a huge margin.

So agreeing with someone who is suggesting something actually hurtful, damaging, or generally likely to be very negative is better than disagreeing with them?

[Haishao.6851]

@Abakk.9176 said:

There is enough negative in the world and it is outweighing positive by a huge margin.

Spoken like a true negative person.

[Timo.1065]

@Epphyx.5078 said:As the title says, I do think that removing the thumb down was a bad idea.1) You did it on the day one Anet post was massively down voted. Most definitly a coincidence but it will stick in people's mind as "they did it so we can't express our disagreement so easily". So bad timing.2) You did not remove Helpfull nor thumb up. If I have to type a message to express how I disagree with a post, with don't I have to type a message to express how I agree ?3) It promote the idea that only positive thoughts are allowed on the forum. But without criticism there's no progress only stagnation.

100% agree. Thumb down and thum up is the fastes way to share with others your opinion about topic. Bring us back thumb dowm.

[Maunzi.3764]

I don't think this change was needed, thumbs down don't matter to me, but boy are the people wailing about the change hilarious.

Guys, you're not horribly oppressed by ...a button being taken away. Your life must be utterly sheltered to even think so.

[Leo G.4501]

@Aenaos.8160 said:People were already using it without even getting in the trouble of posting in the threads they were down voting.Glad it was removed.

Why would someone get in trouble for such a benign action? Even if it had malicious intent, no one is harmed or discredited.

[mazut.4296]

Thumbs down was pretty useful. Apart of the few occasional trolls that are inevitable its a good option to have.

[Leo G.4501]

@Maunzi.3764 said:I don't think this change was needed, thumbs down don't matter to me, but boy are the people wailing about the change hilarious.

Guys, you're not horribly oppressed by ...a button being taken away. Your life must be utterly sheltered to even think so.

And no one was silenced or hurt when we could down vote but that didnt stop people from making a fuss saying it was abusive and negative and got the feature removed.

[maddoctor.2738]

I voted yes. thumb down was useless.On a side note: I remember from the old forums that petitions weren't allowed, did that change with the addition of polls on these forums?

[Waldo.8075]

"Oh no! A button that doesn't do much other than showing an icon of a hand pointing its thumb down has been removed while I can also just be civilized and write a productive counter argument that could lead to a discussion, hopefully without throwing insults and immaturity at each other, to express each other's opinion on the subject. I'd rather just click a button and not spend a few minutes writing a valid counter argument and be less productive about it so that I can sleep well at night knowing that I've contributed absolutely nothing but an additional count to the thumbs-down mass."

Also what's this about the change being against freedom of speech? I ain't hearing people talking or reading anything about their so-called speech when all we get to see is a number next to an icon going up.If someone disagrees, it'd be a lot better if a counter argument was given to back-up that disagreement.Don't have time to write the disagreement to one's post? Then your disagreement is probably void to begin with.

An agreement and a disagreement are two completely different things. Comparing them is like comparing a train with my granny's scootmobile.And she doesn't even have one. Think about that.If you agree with someone, there isn't much to add because you simply have the same opinion and if you had to express that, the forums would be full with the same post over and over. Probably more frequent than the posts about bugged events for legendaries.
If you disagree with someone, you can add something to that with your view and opinion (as long as you don't fling immaturities about) by expressing your argument with words and not with a hand gesture. Leave that to people who need to use hand gestures because they are unable to speak.

[rapthorne.7345]

Do we really need so many threads about this topic? bug­ger me