Forum Reactions [merged]

[Pixlboy.5296]

@rapthorne.7345 said:Do we really need so many threads about this topic? bug­ger me

Yeah, this really got out of hand.

[Carighan.6758]

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:because just enough people use that tactically rather than strictly as a "I disagree" marker

I would love to see data on this before making wild statements such as this. "Tactically"? For combat purposes or what?

[Leo G.4501]

@Waldo.8075 said:"Oh no! A button that doesn't do much other than showing an icon of a hand pointing its thumb down has been removed while I can also just be civilized and write a productive counter argument that could lead to a discussion, hopefully without throwing insults and immaturity at each other, to express each other's opinion on the subject. I'd rather just click a button and not spend a few minutes writing a valid counter argument and be less productive about it so that I can sleep well at night knowing that I've contributed absolutely nothing but an additional count to the thumbs-down mass."

Also what's this about the change being against freedom of speech? I ain't hearing people talking or reading anything about their so-called speech when all we get to see is a number next to an icon going up.If someone disagrees, it'd be a lot better if a counter argument was given to back-up that disagreement.Don't have time to write the disagreement to one's post? Then your disagreement is probably void to begin with.

An agreement and a disagreement are two completely different things. Comparing them is like comparing a train with my granny's scootmobile.And she doesn't even have one. Think about that.If you agree with someone, there isn't much to add because you simply have the same opinion and if you had to express that, the forums would be full with the same post over and over. Probably more frequent than the posts about bugged events for legendaries.

If you disagree with someone, you can add something to that with your view and opinion (as long as you don't fling immaturities about) by expressing your argument with words and not with a hand gesture. Leave that to people who need to use hand gestures because they are unable to speak.

See, this post would have gotten a thumbs down because its useless and demonstratea the poster didnt read the opposing argument AT ALL.

That post deserves a level heades and indepth reaponse while demonstrating a lack or respect and patients? Or we could just ignore rhe person and hope he goes away, making countless of useless posts in the meantime?

[Waldo.8075]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Waldo.8075 said:"Oh no! A button that doesn't do much other than showing an icon of a hand pointing its thumb down has been removed while I can also just be civilized and write a productive counter argument that could lead to a discussion, hopefully without throwing insults and immaturity at each other, to express each other's opinion on the subject. I'd rather just click a button and not spend a few minutes writing a valid counter argument and be less productive about it so that I can sleep well at night knowing that I've contributed absolutely nothing but an additional count to the thumbs-down mass."

Also what's this about the change being against freedom of speech? I ain't hearing people talking or reading anything about their so-called speech when all we get to see is a number next to an icon going up.If someone disagrees, it'd be a lot better if a counter argument was given to back-up that disagreement.Don't have time to write the disagreement to one's post? Then your disagreement is probably void to begin with.

An agreement and a disagreement are two completely different things. Comparing them is like comparing a train with my granny's scootmobile.And she doesn't even have one. Think about that.If you agree with someone, there isn't much to add because you simply have the same opinion and if you had to express that, the forums would be full with the same post over and over. Probably more frequent than the posts about bugged events for legendaries.

If you disagree with someone, you can add something to that with your view and opinion (as long as you don't fling immaturities about) by expressing your argument with words and not with a hand gesture. Leave that to people who need to use hand gestures because they are unable to speak.

See, this post would have gotten a thumbs down because its useless and demonstratea the poster didnt read the opposing argument AT ALL.

That post deserves a level heades and indepth reaponse while demonstrating a lack or respect and patients? Or we could just ignore rhe person and hope he goes away, making countless of useless posts in the meantime?

For your information, I did read all of the posts before I started writing this, otherwise I wouldn't have any idea of what to write. Heck, the things I mentioned are basically a summary of what has been said before, but I believe it is -YOU- who doesn't read the posts or acknowledge them because you did not notice the references.

And so what if my post gets thumbed down? A thumb-down doesn't do much other than being there. It's not constructive and doesn't add anything at all because there could be a million reasons as to why it got thumbed down, but none of it would be mentioned so therefore it means less that nothing.

I'd like to give you props for actually posting a counter argument, but sadly it didn't show much more than the fact you only view things from your own perspective because you base your post on your own imagination, claiming that I don't read posts and saying that it's useless.Maybe it's useless to you, but maybe it's useful for others? Ever thought about that? Or do you believe in your own lies?

[Leo G.4501]

@Waldo.8075 said:And so what if my post gets thumbed down? A thumb-down doesn't do much other than being there. It's not constructive and doesn't add anything at all because there could be a million reasons as to why it got thumbed down, but none of it would be mentioned so therefore it means less that nothing.

It would mean i would have had one reply less to write and one less for you to read. Because it's apparently better that you misrepresent the opposing argument and me to write that you are and then you to write that you're not and we go in an infinite circle than it is to just click a button and move on. You're not willing to listen to the opposition nor counter provided arguments nor present new ones so where should the discussion go? Obviously 20+ more pages and a boat load of wasted time...

[CETheLucid.3964]

@Leo G.4501 said:I'm in agreement.

As an American (and i do realize not everyone on these forums is American but the devs are stationed here) it feels like an infringement of my civil right

I wish there was a thumbs down button so I could thumbs down things like this. It really was a bad idea to take that away. If I can simply thumbs up something I agree with, I should just as easily be able to thumbs down something I disagree with.

[Kaiyanwan.8521]

People can't handle a bit of criticism anymore. Some people won't like your comment others will.

IMO, it was a nice way to see a general tendency on a new topic. It also was an indicator of the impact and how hot the topic was percepted in the community in general.

Now we gotta read through all the trolls and all the posts to get that impression again. Well, ANet's forums seem to be a never ending story of not delivering.

[Nayukhuut.4269]

I voted yes, but only because of the feature as it currently stands. I don't know whether it was the anonymity of this forum or something else, but there seemed to be a lot of people just going through and downvoting EVERYTHING. It defeats the purpose of such a system in which the intent is to hopefully grade the merit of the post content or whether or not you agree with said post. I would be in favour of bringing it back in the future, but I would prefer the anonymity be removed. That goes for the upvotes too.

[DakotaCoty.5721]

@"Leo G.4501" said:I'm in agreement.

As an American (and i do realize not everyone on these forums is American but the devs are stationed here) it feels like an infringement of my civil right, not because thumbs down was removed, but because the reason behind its removal is to police criticism that wasn't in any way inherently negative. And yes, i realize the forums do not follow anything regarding the US constitution but you'd expect someone who is from the country to have similar morals and values, i.e the devs and mods.

Considering the whole social and political climate, just removing thumbs down is an act of favouritism within the community who feel some discourse make a discussion better vs those who think simple dislikes is a negative environment. The only recourse is to remove all voting options and leave silence as a mode of disagreement. This would also mean removing the badge system as well. For someone who enjoys posting, reading and participation in the forums, this is a net loss but an apparently necessary one.

Stop this bullshit.

If we act smart for just a microsecond, it is easy to predict why downvote was removed - it was used mostly to disagree with people or push down bad ideas. I have done nothing but help people on this forum and some people literally voted my posts negatively because of that - I had something like 20 downvotes on me advising people that ArcDps was safe to use. Oh, I dislike this opinion or idea, instead of leaving feedback, I'll downvote

This has nothing to do with politics, being an American or civil rights - and the fact you went off on a tangent like that is actually laughable.

Here are some GW2 facts for you:

• NA is actually the least popular region in GW2. EU has a dominating population.
• EU is leagues ahead of NA in raid/pve/wvw/pvp meta.
• Most of the leading guilds and most YouTubers are from the EU/UK.

I find it very insulting that you'd lay down "We Americans are more important" speech, when actually, in this situation, you're the population minority.

[Waldo.8075]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Waldo.8075 said:And so what if my post gets thumbed down? A thumb-down doesn't do much other than being there. It's not constructive and doesn't add anything at all because there could be a million reasons as to why it got thumbed down, but none of it would be mentioned so therefore it means less that nothing.

It would mean i would have had one reply less to write and one less for you to read. Because it's apparently better that you misrepresent the opposing argument and me to write that you are and then you to write that you're not and we go in an infinite circle than it is to just click a button and move on. You're not willing to listen to the opposition nor counter provided arguments nor present new ones so where should the discussion go? Obviously 20+ more pages and a boat load of wasted time...

Now here's a thing.And right now I'm going to point at that "you're not willing to listen."

As long as you do not listen to people, people won't listen to you.Do you see where I'm getting at?

Now, look at how many people disagree with you, compared to the amount of people who disagree with me.

And it'd be nice to know if there are people out there who disagree with me other than this single individual. Someone who can give me a valid counter argument.

[maddoctor.2738]

@DakotaCoty.5721 said:If we act smart for just a microsecond, it is easy to predict why downvote was removed - it was used mostly to disagree with people or push down bad ideas. I have done nothing but help people on this forum and some people literally voted my posts negatively because of that - I had something like 20 downvotes on me advising people that ArcDps was safe to use.

I got thumbs down for posting... statistics. I think making thumb down anonymous is what led to this down issue, as posters started using the system as a way to down vote all posts of someone just because they disagreed with them in one thread. At least by seeing who used the thumb down there was a way to rule out trolls.

[Arheundel.6451]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Epphyx.5078 said:As the title says, I do think that removing the thumb down was a bad idea.1) You did it on the day one Anet post was massively down voted. Most definitly a coincidence but it will stick in people's mind as "they did it so we can't express our disagreement so easily". So bad timing.2) You did not remove Helpfull nor thumb up. If I have to type a message to express how I disagree with a post, with don't I have to type a message to express how I agree ?3) It promote the idea that only positive thoughts are allowed on the forum. But without criticism there's no progress only stagnation.

Without Open Dialogue as to WHY you disagree, simply disagreeing with someone is pointless, and even more pointless when hidden behind an anonymous function button, if you can't put your name to it, it can't matter that much you to.

Equally so, I should not need to explain why I agree, as we are in agreement.

Brilliant response!Disagreeing is fine..but disagreeing just for the sake of it is meaningless ...this is not facebook! You should give a reason why you disagree

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@calb.3128 said:

@"Leo G.4501" said:I'm in agreement.

As an American (and i do realize not everyone on these forums is American but the devs are stationed here) it feels like an infringement of my civil right, not because thumbs down was removed, but because the reason behind its removal is to police criticism that wasn't in any way inherently negative. And yes, i realize the forums do not follow anything regarding the US constitution but you'd expect someone who is from the country to have similar morals and values, i.e the devs and mods.

Considering the whole social and political climate, just removing thumbs down is an act of favouritism within the community who feel some discourse make a discussion better vs those who think simple dislikes is a negative environment. The only recourse is to remove all voting options and leave silence as a mode of disagreement. This would also mean removing the badge system as well. For someone who enjoys posting, reading and participation in the forums, this is a net loss but an apparently necessary one.

I

really

must be missing something here. What is wrong with replying to a post and articulating your disagreement in prose?

To spin this as a limitation on freedom of expression is a stretch.

I'd go one further and claim that removing "Thumbs down" actually encourages people to express themselves rather than being lazily dismissive.

[Leo G.4501]

@DakotaCoty.5721 said:`This has nothing to do with politics, being an American or civil rights - and the fact you went off on a tangent like that is actually laughable.

Apparently an appeal to emotions is only acceptable when you're talking about having your feelings hurt because someone downvotes you. That was literally half the arguments for removing downvotes and those that argued abusing the system never had a counter to the abuse of farming thumbs up and helpfuls for badges.

[DakotaCoty.5721]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@DakotaCoty.5721 said:`This has nothing to do with politics, being an American or civil rights - and the fact you went off on a tangent like that is actually laughable.

Apparently an appeal to emotions is only acceptable when you're talking about having your feelings hurt because someone downvotes you. That was literally half the arguments for removing downvotes and those that argued abusing the system never had a counter to the abuse of farming thumbs up and helpfuls for badges.

If helping people increases because of "farming badges and thumbs up/helpful" then surely the system is working as intended? Some form of inspiration to become one with the community is a good thing, surely and not a bad thing?

We have to remind ourselves that these are just numbers, but the intent behind them is permanent. If I tell someone how to fix a problem and I get a thumbs up, that TU means very little to me but my advice may have just helped them into the game rather than wait 4 days for a response. But it signifies that I am being helpful and active.

[Henry.5713]

People always assume a downvoting system would be used in a civilized manner only, as in nobody would ever use it to downvote a well-reasoned opinion they happen to disagree with. I find that a little strange. There is no surer way to get a simple "Yes or No" out of people than to implement such a system, as they are not required to take their time to write down a reply. Of course here are those few who are going to dislike anything you post because they dislike you. So what, that is how life is. Wish people stopped being so offended about everything nowadays. This is yet another form of censorship that has become so common in social media. Next step will to allow members to block others from even posting anything in their threads to keep out anyone who disagrees with them. And all of that just because they can not deal with a tiny symbol that shows the honest opinions of others.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@Haishao.6851 said:

@Pixlboy.5296 said:I think that it force people to verbalize their opinion, especially negative. Not just simple "no", "You're wrong" by giving thumbs down.If you don't like something, write it. Then people that also agree with you will give you thumb up to show the strength of your arguement.That's good.

That goes also for thumbs up, you don't have to write thousend posts repeating the same.

Just disagreeing goes nowhere and I've also seen thumbs down on post that weren't even negative.

You say we should write our disagreement, but suddenly when it comes to agreement, writing a thousand of posts repeating the same is bad.Can you please elaborate on this? Why is one good and the other bad?

Also you've seen posts that you think weren't negative getting thumbs down. They were obviously negative to people who gave it a thumb down.I see your post got a thumb up and it is not even positive.

In a discussion, agreement doesn't require substantiation. Disagreement does. If you're too lazy to write why you disagree, wait until someone else writes something that echoes the opinion you couldn't be bothered to express, and upvote that post.

[Zedek.8932]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Epphyx.5078 said:3) It promote the idea that only positive thoughts are allowed on the forum. But without criticism there's no progress only stagnation.

I don't think a "thumb down" is criticism. If you disagree with an opinion you can say why and engage in a productive discussion.On the other hand, if you agree with something you don't have to write an essay about it, in fact using a "thumbs up" instead of posting "yes I agree with you" helps the forums, less posts, less clutter, more meaningful posts.

That is true and makes sense.If you don't have anything to add in your own words, an upvote is all you need.

Simple example:OP: I like chocolate ice cream.8 thumbs up(end)

OP: I like chocolate ice cream.Answer 1: Yes, me too!Answer 2: Count me in.Answer 3: I do, too!Answer 4: Yes, it's great!etc. (end)

I think it's pretty simple an upvote is enough. Somebody said something, made a statement and you agree to something that has been spoken out already.

However, if you there is a silent thumbing down, we know that people do not like chocolate ice cream, but are they maybe just neutral about it? Or any reasons for not liking it? Allergy? Too fat? The colour? Aftertaste? Thumbing down now would basically mean empty opinions, becausee it has NOT been spoken out already why not to like it. A discussion can not work that way. Since nobody was talking, the OP can not just quote a downvoter and ask "Why do you think that way", because there is no one to answer to and bumping causes you to violate the rules.

However, if you form a post in a certain way, you can disapprove to something by upvoting:

Example:OP: Do you like the new PoF Material storage system?Thumbs up: 0

OP: I dislike the new PoF Material Storage system!Thumbs up: 48

@Timo.1065 said:100% agree. Thumb down and thum up is the fastes way to share with others your opinion about topic. Bring us back thumb dowm.

No, I think it's the opposite way. By anonymously downvoting, you do share NOT an opinion, just a trend maybe, but not an opinion.Going trough several dictionaries, there is no solid way to tell if it need to be written our spoken out, but as far as I read it, an opinion requires you to add personal bits to it. Upvoting someone else's post is not your opinion, it is his opinion.

From a dictionary: "a personal view, attitude, or appraisal."

@Kaiyanwan.8521 said:People can't handle a bit of criticism anymore. Some people won't like your comment others will.

IMO, it was a nice way to see a general tendency on a new topic. It also was an indicator of the impact and how hot the topic was percepted in the community in general.

Now we gotta read through all the trolls and all the posts to get that impression again. Well, ANet's forums seem to be a never ending story of not delivering.

I just scrolled through several threads. Unpopular opinions so far have 0 upvotes, popular ones 5+. And in fact, the 0 upvotes ones are troll posts or new posts.

[DakotaCoty.5721]

@Carighan.6758 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:because just enough people use that tactically rather than strictly as a "I disagree" marker

I would love to see data on this before making wild statements such as this. "Tactically"? For combat purposes or what?

• Oh I dislike this idea? Downvote, no comment
• Oh I dislike this person? Downvote, no comment
• Oh this person is trying too hard, downvote, no comment.
• Oh this person is popular, downvote, no comment
• Oh I dislike something this person said but the idea was good, Downvote, no comment

You see where I'm going with this?

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@Henry.5713 said:People always assume a downvoting system would be used in a civilized manner only, as in nobody would ever use it to downvote a well-reasoned opinion they happen to disagree with. I find that a little strange. There is no surer way to get a simple "Yes or No" out of people than to implement such a system, as they are not required to take their time to write down a reply. Of course here are those few who are going to dislike anything you post because they dislike you. So what, that is how life is. Wish people stopped being so offended about everything nowadays. This is yet another form of censorship that has become so common in social media. Next step will to allow members to block others from even posting anything in their threads to keep out anyone who disagrees with them. And all of that just because they can not deal with a tiny symbol that shows the honest opinions of others.

This isn't censorship. You can write a 10 page pamphlet about why you dislike someone's post or disagree with it. No one is stopping you. You're just being stopped from being lazy.

[Leo G.4501]

@Waldo.8075 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Waldo.8075 said:And so what if my post gets thumbed down? A thumb-down doesn't do much other than being there. It's not constructive and doesn't add anything at all because there could be a million reasons as to why it got thumbed down, but none of it would be mentioned so therefore it means less that nothing.

It would mean i would have had one reply less to write and one less for you to read. Because it's apparently better that you misrepresent the opposing argument and me to write that you are and then you to write that you're not and we go in an infinite circle than it is to just click a button and move on. You're not willing to listen to the opposition nor counter provided arguments nor present new ones so where should the discussion go? Obviously 20+ more pages and a boat load of wasted time...

Now here's a thing.And right now I'm going to point at that "you're not willing to listen."

As long as you do not listen to people, people won't listen to you.Do you see where I'm getting at?

Now, look at how many people disagree with you, compared to the amount of people who disagree with me.

And it'd be nice to know if there are people out there who disagree with me other than this single individual. Someone who can give me a valid counter argument.

You won't know how many people disagree with me because that option was removed. You may have some people who would thumb down my semi-ironic post that i admitted to being an emotionally charged appeal (you obviously missed that) but not my actual message unless people deliberately poll for it.

What's hilarious is you've taken the moral high horse stance of "who agrees with you vs who agrees with me" which doesn't even matter because you don't approve of the popularity contest of the downvote system anyway unless of cousw it feeds your argument i suppose.

And i do hope someone besides me gives you a counter argument. Apparently, you'd just ignore mine giving yourself the false assumption that only certain people don't agree with you.

[DakotaCoty.5721]

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Henry.5713 said:People always assume a downvoting system would be used in a civilized manner only, as in nobody would ever use it to downvote a well-reasoned opinion they happen to disagree with. I find that a little strange. There is no surer way to get a simple "Yes or No" out of people than to implement such a system, as they are not required to take their time to write down a reply. Of course here are those few who are going to dislike anything you post because they dislike you. So what, that is how life is. Wish people stopped being so offended about everything nowadays. This is yet another form of censorship that has become so common in social media. Next step will to allow members to block others from even posting anything in their threads to keep out anyone who disagrees with them. And all of that just because they can not deal with a tiny symbol that shows the honest opinions of others.

This isn't censorship. You can write a 10 page pamphlet about why you dislike someone's post or disagree with it. No one is stopping you. You're just being stopped from being lazy.

This.

[Sorann Peace.9056]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Zefiris.8297 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:I'm in agreement.

As an American (and i do realize not everyone on these forums is American but the devs are stationed here) it feels like an infringement of my civil right

As a non-american, I continue to be amused by the complete failure of many self-proclaimed Americans to understand what "civil rights" actually means.This is not a free speech issue. In fact, if you actually read your constitution that you whine about, you'd understand that private companies have every right to completely remove any kind of speech they dislike in any way they wish to.

You kids wouldn't have lasted long in forums or usenet, that's for sure.

It's funny that you completely misrepresent my argument while using insults to make your argument. I'd thumbs down the post to hammer in that message while explaining why to allow no solid ground to argue against.

If you read my post, i express that i understand that the constitution has no power within these context but use the background of those within power (mostly Americans) to consider where they stand morally and bring into question if they value the freedoms people died defending. If they do not value any of that, the argument fails. But the purpose is to appeal to the same emotional side those arguing to remove down votes did to scrap the entire system as its unecessay either way. If you fail to understand that, what else can i tell you but to respectfully explain in further detail why your post misrepresents me but you are not worthy of that much effort.

My god, did they not teach you your own laws at school? This is really, really silly. When I was in school, I apparently learned more about your legal system than you did! How can this even be?

Have you never taken philosophy, public speaking or debate?

I think he's got you beat, after all, your whole point was that a point that disagreed would get ignored, and you two just laid that whole thing to rest with responding to him because he disagreed with you. Can't wait to see what becomes of this discussion that was started because you disagreed, and did not hide behind an anonymous button to express that.

You keep saying hide. Do i have you tear down that argument too?

You must not value my time, but i have an ulterior motive to responding and its not related to proving anything you corroborate to down vote removal.

There is a legal side to civil rights and a philosophical side to civil rights. Yes, private companies have no legal obligation to allow customers to express certain opinions, but one could still argue they have a philosophical obligation. Your statement makes it seem that you think laws are what grant people civil rights. It could instead be argued that laws merely acknowledge the existence of those rights rather than granting them. From that perspective, removing the thumbs down button, while not completely silencing disagreement, does still result in those who agree with opinions having more power to express their agreement than those who disagree. Those who disagree are left with fewer tools for expression. That is inherently unequal and therefore unfair, constituting a partial, but not full violation of freedom of expression/speech.

The gist I'm getting here is that you, Zefiris, are viewing this from a purely legal angle, while Leo G is looking at it from a more philosophical angle. To an extent then, you are both correct, but talking about slightly different things. For the record, I agree more with Leo G's side of things, and I consider civil rights to be an inherent quality of being human. They are not something which is granted, but merely acknowledged.

@Zefiris.8297 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:But considering the government (in this case, the forum mods) do have the power to completely silence you full stop without a lefitimate reason (legitimacy cannot be argued or judged under a fair pretense in this example either), it is indeed a prevention of expression.

Forum mods are. Not. The. Government.Companies. Have. Every. Right. To. ~Silence~. You. (Which they aren't even doing, as your posts continue to be around)-

As a final point, the word government can technically be applied to any entity which governs. Yes, forum mods do not govern a nation (obviously), but they do still play a part in "governing" the forum. That is, enforcing the rules that the forum is meant to adhere to. In that sense, forum mods are a kind of government. I think that is what Leo G means when he uses that word. Your usage of it is more narrow than his.

[Leo G.4501]

@DakotaCoty.5721 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@DakotaCoty.5721 said:`This has nothing to do with politics, being an American or civil rights - and the fact you went off on a tangent like that is actually laughable.

Apparently an appeal to emotions is only acceptable when you're talking about having your feelings hurt because someone downvotes you. That was literally half the arguments for removing downvotes and those that argued abusing the system never had a counter to the abuse of farming thumbs up and helpfuls for badges.

If helping people increases because of "farming badges and thumbs up/helpful" then surely the system is working as intended? Some form of inspiration to become one with the community is a good thing, surely and not a bad thing?

We have to remind ourselves that these are just numbers, but the intent behind them is permanent. If I tell someone how to fix a problem and I get a thumbs up, that TU means very little to me but my advice may have just helped them into the game rather than wait 4 days for a response.

But it signifies that I am being helpful and active.

So it is perfectly logical that "bad people" exploited the thumbs down feature to discredit people, make them feel bad and silence them with shame but it is not logical "bad people" will exploit the system to thumbs up each other and give out helpfuls in threads meant to bolster their forum badge count? I've been on other forums where badges where given for post counts so people made threads hundreds of pages long for it and discredit posters with lesser counts because of it.

Even in game, players discredit by achievement points.

[CETheLucid.3964]

Everyone can say "me 2" without justifying itBut now no one can simply say "nah"

I'm not always going to write an elaborate response to why I don't agree with something anymore than I'm inclined to write an elaborate response to something I might agree with. It's just something I do as it comes to me. Lazy people were going to be lazy regardless of if there were a voting system. Now the system is just rigged one way. That's stupid.