Forum Reactions [merged]

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@CETheLucid.3964 said:Everyone can say "me 2" without justifying itBut now no one can simply say "nah"

I'm not always going to write an elaborate response to why I don't agree with something anymore than I'm inclined to write an elaborate response to something I might agree with. It's just something I do as it comes to me. Lazy people were going to be lazy regardless of if there were a voting system. Now the system is just rigged one way. That's stupid.

Wait for someone else to formulate an opinion similar to the one you don't consider important enough to spend any time expressing, and upvote that post.

[Leo G.4501]

@Zedek.8932 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Epphyx.5078 said:3) It promote the idea that only positive thoughts are allowed on the forum. But without criticism there's no progress only stagnation.

I don't think a "thumb down" is criticism. If you disagree with an opinion you can say why and engage in a productive discussion.On the other hand, if you agree with something you don't have to write an essay about it, in fact using a "thumbs up" instead of posting "yes I agree with you" helps the forums, less posts, less clutter, more meaningful posts.

That is true and makes sense.If you don't have anything to add in your own words, an upvote is all you need.

Simple example:OP: I like chocolate ice cream.8 thumbs up

(end)

OP: I like chocolate ice cream.Answer 1: Yes, me too!Answer 2: Count me in.Answer 3: I do, too!Answer 4: Yes, it's great!etc.

(end)

I think it's pretty simple an upvote is enough. Somebody said something, made a statement and you agree to something that

has been spoken out already.

However, if you there is a silent thumbing down, we know that people do not like chocolate ice cream, but are they maybe just neutral about it? Or any reasons for not liking it? Allergy? Too kitten? The colour? Aftertaste? Thumbing down now would basically mean empty opinions, becausee it

has

NOT

been spoken out already

why not to like it. A discussion can not work that way. Since nobody was talking, the OP can not just quote a downvoter and ask "Why do you think that way", because there is no one to answer to and bumping causes you to violate the rules.

However, if you form a post in a certain way, you can disapprove to something by upvoting:

Example:OP: Do you like the new PoF Material storage system?Thumbs up: 0

OP: I dislike the new PoF Material Storage system!Thumbs up: 48

@Timo.1065 said:100% agree. Thumb down and thum up is the fastes way to share with others your opinion about topic. Bring us back thumb dowm.

No, I think it's the opposite way. By anonymously downvoting, you do share NOT an opinion, just a trend maybe, but not an opinion.Going trough several dictionaries, there is no solid way to tell if it need to be written our spoken out, but as far as I read it, an opinion requires you to add personal bits to it. Upvoting someone else's post is not your opinion, it is his opinion.

From a dictionary: "a

personal

view, attitude, or appraisal."

@Kaiyanwan.8521 said:People can't handle a bit of criticism anymore. Some people won't like your comment others will.

IMO, it was a nice way to see a general tendency on a new topic. It also was an indicator of the impact and how hot the topic was percepted in the community in general.

Now we gotta read through all the trolls and all the posts to get that impression again. Well, ANet's forums seem to be a never ending story of not delivering.

I just scrolled through several threads. Unpopular opinions so far have 0 upvotes, popular ones 5+. And in fact, the 0 upvotes ones are troll posts or new posts.

Or you can just understand that your thoughts on the definition of opinion doesn't line up with the dictionary definition and make a poll about how people should be allowed to express them. Both online and in real life, i bet you'd have various insightful answers on that.

[Ayakaru.6583]

Right now, we cant mark comments as "bad idea", people will call out weird and bad ideas in topics and we can't downvote them. It was a good idea to change to votes to anonymous, but dont remove it,Y'know, lets throw a poll, i dare to make a wager that more than 66% will want the downvote option back

[Leo G.4501]

@DakotaCoty.5721 said:

@Carighan.6758 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:because just enough people use that tactically rather than strictly as a "I disagree" marker

I would love to see data on this before making wild statements such as this. "Tactically"? For combat purposes or what?

• Oh I dislike this idea? Downvote, no comment
• Oh I dislike this person? Downvote, no comment
• Oh this person is trying too hard, downvote, no comment.
• Oh this person is popular, downvote, no comment
• Oh I dislike something this person said but the idea was good, Downvote, no comment

You see where I'm going with this?

Making stuff up with no evidence and ignoring the opposing argument isn't a strong argument.

[Ayakaru.6583]

The downvote option is a valuable tool that shows people think something really is a bad idea, and its distinct from the indifference shown in simply not voting. I think, especially since its anonymous, there was no reason to remove it, and its removal may actually damage the integrity of the forum. This poll is equally anonymous, unless you comment your choice of course.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:Right now, we cant mark comments as "bad idea", people will call out weird and bad ideas in topics and we can't downvote them. It was a good idea to change to votes to anonymous, but dont remove it,Y'know, lets throw a poll, i dare to make a wager that more than 66% will want the downvote option back

Downvoting stifles discussion. Post why you think something is a bad idea, and people can upvote that if they agree with your point. But more importantly, the poster of what you think is a bad idea can offer counterarguments or elaborate on why he thinks his idea is a good idea. There's no reasoning with downward pointing thumbs.

[Ayakaru.6583]

I just comment downvote now, since anet removed the option

[costepj.5120]

You missed an option; the original deployment showed who cast downvotes, so trolls couldn't hide behind anonymity.

[Ayakaru.6583]

@rapthorne.7345 said:Do we really need so many threads about this topic? bug­ger me

Yes, because more topics show that the community is really bothered by this, and not just a minor inconvenience

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@rapthorne.7345 said:Do we really need so many threads about this topic? bug­ger me

Yes, because more topics show that the community is

really

bothered by this, and not just a minor inconvenience

It only shows that some people are either too lazy to find existing threads, or too self-important to consider that their post might not require a new thread. It doesn't show anything about the community at all.

[Shirlias.8104]

@Haishao.6851 said:I don't really care for "helpful" but thumbs up should definitely be gone.

This

[Leo G.4501]

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@rapthorne.7345 said:Do we really need so many threads about this topic? bug­ger me

Yes, because more topics show that the community is

really

bothered by this, and not just a minor inconvenience

It only shows that some people are either too lazy to find existing threads, or too self-important to consider that their post might not require a new thread. It doesn't show anything about the community at all.

Did you say the same thing when all the "get rid of down vote" threads ran rampant that the mods had to merge them and close others?

[Ayakaru.6583]

@costepj.5120 said:You missed an option; the original deployment showed who cast downvotes, so trolls couldn't hide behind anonymity.

Fair, but can't add the option anymore

[DakotaCoty.5721]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@DakotaCoty.5721 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@DakotaCoty.5721 said:`This has nothing to do with politics, being an American or civil rights - and the fact you went off on a tangent like that is actually laughable.

Apparently an appeal to emotions is only acceptable when you're talking about having your feelings hurt because someone downvotes you. That was literally half the arguments for removing downvotes and those that argued abusing the system never had a counter to the abuse of farming thumbs up and helpfuls for badges.

If helping people increases because of "farming badges and thumbs up/helpful" then surely the system is working as intended? Some form of inspiration to become one with the community is a good thing, surely and not a bad thing?

We have to remind ourselves that these are just numbers, but the intent behind them is permanent. If I tell someone how to fix a problem and I get a thumbs up, that TU means very little to me but my advice may have just helped them into the game rather than wait 4 days for a response.

But it signifies that I am being helpful and active.

So it is perfectly logical that "bad people" exploited the thumbs down feature to discredit people, make them feel bad and silence them with shame but it is not logical "bad people" will exploit the system to thumbs up each other and give out helpfuls in threads meant to bolster their forum badge count? I've been on other forums where badges where given for post counts so people made threads hundreds of pages long for it and discredit posters with lesser counts because of it.

Even in game, players discredit by achievement points.

As I said, if having a thumbs up / helpful reaction system inspires people to be more creative, precise and helpful within their postings, then why is that a bad thing? You can't turn something truly positive into a negative to suit your argument.

Disliking was abused.

[CETheLucid.3964]

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@CETheLucid.3964 said:Everyone can say "me 2" without justifying itBut now no one can simply say "nah"

I'm not always going to write an elaborate response to why I don't agree with something anymore than I'm inclined to write an elaborate response to something I might agree with. It's just something I do as it comes to me. Lazy people were going to be lazy regardless of if there were a voting system. Now the system is just rigged one way. That's stupid.

Wait for someone else to formulate an opinion similar to the one you don't consider important enough to spend any time expressing, and upvote that post.

Or avoid the whole run around and just make it equal. Thumbs up and down, or none at all.

[Waldo.8075]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Waldo.8075 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Waldo.8075 said:And so what if my post gets thumbed down? A thumb-down doesn't do much other than being there. It's not constructive and doesn't add anything at all because there could be a million reasons as to why it got thumbed down, but none of it would be mentioned so therefore it means less that nothing.

It would mean i would have had one reply less to write and one less for you to read. Because it's apparently better that you misrepresent the opposing argument and me to write that you are and then you to write that you're not and we go in an infinite circle than it is to just click a button and move on. You're not willing to listen to the opposition nor counter provided arguments nor present new ones so where should the discussion go? Obviously 20+ more pages and a boat load of wasted time...

Now here's a thing.And right now I'm going to point at that "you're not willing to listen."

As long as you do not listen to people, people won't listen to you.Do you see where I'm getting at?

Now, look at how many people disagree with you, compared to the amount of people who disagree with me.

And it'd be nice to know if there are people out there who disagree with me other than this single individual. Someone who can give me a valid counter argument.

You won't know how many people disagree with me because that option was removed. You may have some people who would thumb down my semi-ironic post that i admitted to being an emotionally charged appeal (you obviously missed that) but not my actual message unless people deliberately poll for it.

What's hilarious is you've taken the moral high horse stance of "who agrees with you vs who agrees with me" which

doesn't even matter

because you don't approve of the popularity contest of the downvote system anyway unless of cousw it feeds your argument i suppose.

And i do hope someone besides me gives you a counter argument. Apparently, you'd just ignore mine giving yourself the false assumption that only certain people don't agree with you.

Oh I would know the amount of people disagreeing if I read the actual posts and not rely on a feature everyone can abuse without consequences, which I do and I can only count a half because if I read your posts (and you seem the only one to disagree), there's nothing really constructive about them.

I'm simply basing my opinions on what I read and view it from a neutral point.

The reason why I brought up the, what you call, 'moral high horse stance' is because you flung around your opinions and treat them like facts, as if a whole community stands behind you and thinks the same.

Another reason as to why it's better to write something constructive instead of clicking a simple button.

[DakotaCoty.5721]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:The downvote option is a valuable tool that shows people think something really is a bad idea, and its distinct from the indifference shown in simply not voting. I think, especially since its anonymous, there was no reason to remove it, and its removal may actually damage the integrity of the forum. This poll is equally anonymous, unless you comment your choice of course.

This is the third thread on the system - it was abused, it has been removed.

I hope the people making 3-4 threads about this get infracted when there's a post stating "Stop making threads and keep it in the feedback discussion thread".

[Evil.1580]

Like every other place in the world, there are people that like to "watch the world burn".

This forum isn't different. There are people that will downvote a very nice and logical post just because they are mean or trolls.

And there are, also, people who will think that this post is complete bullshit only by looking at the downvotes and won't read it at all.

Some forums have even the option where the comment is hidden when it gets enough downvotes.

With this said, I am happy that they have removed the downvote system and I am happy they didn't remove the helpful and upvote options.

One less option for the trolls to troll around :)

Good Job Anet!

[Leo G.4501]

@DakotaCoty.5721 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@DakotaCoty.5721 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@DakotaCoty.5721 said:`This has nothing to do with politics, being an American or civil rights - and the fact you went off on a tangent like that is actually laughable.

Apparently an appeal to emotions is only acceptable when you're talking about having your feelings hurt because someone downvotes you. That was literally half the arguments for removing downvotes and those that argued abusing the system never had a counter to the abuse of farming thumbs up and helpfuls for badges.

If helping people increases because of "farming badges and thumbs up/helpful" then surely the system is working as intended? Some form of inspiration to become one with the community is a good thing, surely and not a bad thing?

We have to remind ourselves that these are just numbers, but the intent behind them is permanent. If I tell someone how to fix a problem and I get a thumbs up, that TU means very little to me but my advice may have just helped them into the game rather than wait 4 days for a response.

But it signifies that I am being helpful and active.

So it is perfectly logical that "bad people" exploited the thumbs down feature to discredit people, make them feel bad and silence them with shame but it is not logical "bad people" will exploit the system to thumbs up each other and give out helpfuls in threads meant to bolster their forum badge count? I've been on other forums where badges where given for post counts so people made threads hundreds of pages long for it and discredit posters with lesser counts because of it.

Even in game, players discredit by achievement points.

As I said, if having a thumbs up / helpful reaction system inspires people to be more creative, precise and helpful within their postings, then why is that a bad thing? You can't turn something truly positive into a negative to suit your argument.

Disliking was abused.

So you don't even acknowlege that i presented an argument to you to dispute and repeated yourself? Yes, very constructive...

[Shirlias.8104]

Thumbs Up should go as> @DakotaCoty.5721 said:

As I said, if having a thumbs up / helpful reaction system inspires people to be more creative, precise and helpful within their postings, then why is that a bad thing? You can't turn something truly positive into a negative to suit your argument.

Disliking was abused.

This.

A little Recap:

Somebody opens a thread:

1. If it is a proposal/suggestion and you like it, you can Thumbs up.
2. If it is a proposal/suggestion which you don't like, simply you don't click anything ( you wont promote that idea, and it will have the same power as thumbs down, but with the fact it cannot be abused like it was before ).
3. if it is a guide or a helpful one, and you think it is a good one, you can click on helpful.

I can't totally trust a community, for an instance, just think how it was abused the thumbs down in the previous days, and that's why i prefer low power/control into community's hands.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@rapthorne.7345 said:Do we really need so many threads about this topic? bug­ger me

Yes, because more topics show that the community is

really

bothered by this, and not just a minor inconvenience

It only shows that some people are either too lazy to find existing threads, or too self-important to consider that their post might not require a new thread. It doesn't show anything about the community at all.

Did you say the same thing when all the "get rid of down vote" threads ran rampant that the mods had to merge them and close others?

I might have if I had noticed such a thing. I don't spend much time on the forums so I'm hardly aware of everything that's going on here.

Are you trying to insinuate I'm a hypocrite?

[Evil.1580]

Yes - it was abused by trolls and mean people so it was necessary.

Thank you, Anet!

[Nyel.1843]

Yes. It's good that it's gone.

[Nyel.1843]

@Epphyx.5078 said:3) It promote the idea that only positive thoughts are allowed on the forum. But without criticism there's no progress only stagnation.

Wrong. If you disagree with something a simple "Thumbs Down" doesn't help. If you don't care to explain why you disagree you don't deserve a simple tool to disagree with (or in some cases harass) others.

If you disagree with something, please explain WHY you disagree with it. This enforces a discussion culture.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:I just comment downvote now, since anet removed the option

This is exactly why the downvote was removed, because most people didn't even bother to explain their counter-opinion (or why they downvoted something that didn't even contain an opinion to begin with). Thank you for confirming that ANet did the right thing by removing this troll function.