Getting more people into Raids

[Durzlla.6295]

Easily the worst thing about raids in this game is the community that does them. It makes getting into raids nearly impossible for people new to the raids.

[CptAurellian.9537]

Strange, I had no problem getting into raids last year. But I guess putting in a minimal effort is already too much.

[Smeerlap.2698]

Many reasonable comments and i can slot in with many arguments that are being said, Raiding isn't impossible in GW2.. i think its just how many effort and time you wan't to put in it.. and for what pupose.As a guy who played MANY Mmo's and allways wanted to get the most and difficult content done like WoW raids for example.

What at the least avoids me from doing raids in Gw2..is simply, i feel its to much becomes a professional thing.. get your build from website X or X.. watch hours of Youtube video's for raid boss(es), use THIS or THAT build.

I don't want to do that, sure can take a 5 min peak for a certain boss, but changing my build that work fine in PVE.. or even PvP when in rare cases i just change 1 0r 2 traits.The difference is minimal.. maybe going from 99% efficiency to 90% who cares.. maybe there are other players having a bad day or have no food buffs or whatever.. or got their build from website X and think that they are playing optimal but in reality they are not... its the same thing.

If i would start raiding.. i don't want to be forced to play Chrono on my mesmer.. why can't i go in as a Mirage with X or Y specialization.Thats why i say Proffessional, this is a GAME.. and it's suppose to be fun.. not a nail biting uncomfortable experience.

I would suggest to arenanet to make Raiding lobby's where there is for example..

1/ training group lobby.. where 10 players automatically are grouped, can have a go at Boss X, with the emphasis on training.. so wipe after wipe would not really matter, everyone needs to learn right... right.

2/ normal group lobby.. where 10 players are grouped automatically who have knowledge of the raid encounter - experienced players.

Now go look for a raid group,, we want THIS class with X amount of LI's etc etc .. what ??.

So automated raid grouping takes care of that, and takes away the barrier of so called elitists who basicly decide if you can not raid with them just becouse you come dressed in pink.. :) jk.

[Dahkeus.8243]

@thewaterguy.4796 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

@Rhiannon.1726 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

but GW2, i haven't seen that....all i've seen is people rage at eachother on the first wipe, rage quit, scream at new players to go watch youtube videos on it before kicking them (and keep in mind these groups didn't advertise that you needed to know what to do, they were pub groups that just asked for specific classes).

You just have to join the right groups. When a newbie joins a group that wanted an experienced player, of course they'll rage, because they want a kill and not train a newbie.

I've been to a Deimos training run (with a raid training guild) and after 1,5 hours we got the kill. One got a dc just before the kill. As he still needed the heart, we all tried another 30min to repeat the kill just for him. Sadly it didn't work, but as far as I know he got it a few days later in another training run.

There are training guilds and discord groups out there that teach newbies in a very friendly and helpful manner how to raid.

IMO this is the best way to start raiding.

they should do a better job advertising for that then, and have these "experienced" groups point these newbies in their direction, rather than saying "go watch youtube"

as the majority of people looking at raiding are not seeing the guilds dedicated to helping new player.

but instead, most people just see the extremely toxic elitist groups.

which leads to people having a negative opinion of it, and thus the population for raids being much diminished.

The problem isn’t advertising. The problem is lack of supply of people willing to hold and teach raids.

I don’t doubt that anyone who is willing to teach raids can fill their group (I’m teaching raids for my guild and it fills easily, even though raiding is not a focus of my guild at all).

And there’s two parts two the supply problem: A group can be led by 1 experienced person, but the more newbies you have, the more patient everyone needs to be since it will take longer to get a kill. On the other hand, a geoup can have veterans helping out to make the teaching smoother, but not only do less people learn, but it’s harder to find vets who are willing to help.

But holding a teaching raid is tough. Running any raid is stressful enough, but a lot of people don’t take criticism well or just don’t want to compromise on their builds. Still, I wish more people would do it since it can also be really rewarding and can build some strong friendships.

the same could be said of destiny 2's raid.

or EVE Online in its entirety.

this lack of willingness to be patient and bring people along (EVE Online tends to mix the vets with 1 newbie. or 1 vet with fleet of newbies. destiny 2 does 3:2 ratio) is what reinforces the point that Raids tend to be elitist.

because thats the very thing that elitism means.

lot of people want to try, but as long as the raid community maintains their reputation as elitist (even if not all are, enough are to give it that rep), few will try, and even fewer will stick around

thus dooming raiding to die a long slow death of inbreeding between what members it has, while having little to no player retention for newcomers

There’s truth in this, but there’s also truth missing. The raid community isn’t the only cause of the divide. There are also a lot of players with a sense of entitlement to both community and content who leave raiders feeling bitter towards newcomers.

I don’t mean this as a stereotype towards newcomers because this doesn’t describe most non-raiders who want to try the content. However, it only takes a few bad apples.

Entitlement is a stupid word, what is wrong with wanting to experience new content? As far as I've seen, people like me aren't asking for the same rewards we just want to be able to experience the mechanics and story of the raids, maybe if the raiding community wasn't taking the gamemode so kitten seriously and was willing to be more flexible and maybe

gasp

let people try out some non-meta builds, we wouldn't need an easier version

Which buddy, summer down.

A ) Entitlement is the appropriate word for how some people approach raiding. There are players that believe they deserve all the accomplishments of raiding without putting in the effort of learning new encounters, communicating effectively with 10 other people, showing up to events at an agreed upon time (in cases when raids are scheduled by a group), practicing their DPS rotation, tweaking their build as needed, or bringing decent gear/consumables.

B ) Nothing is wrong with experiencing new content and the problematic aspect of entitlement has nothing to do with that.

C ) What makes you think that I’m talking about you? As I said, most new/inexperienced raiders are not entitled.

D ) Many groups do try out non-meta builds. Do some looking around and you’ll find all sorts of stuff being tried out from semi-meta stuff like Minstrels chronos to full groups consisting of everyone on the same profession.

However, pugs are often stricter in their requirements for several reasons:1 ) They are dealing with strangers and don’t have a good understanding of their skill levels.2 ) They are assembling an entire 10 person group from scratch and will already take longer to just get assembled to start attempting boss fights. The longer this takes, the less time they have to fight the bosses and more likely they are to lose someone because they ran out of time.

If you are looking for a group sympathetic to inexperience or flexible with builds, then you should be looking for a good guild first as this isn’t something you will find much of from a pug (for good reasons).

I’m currently leading a group through their first raid and I’m being very lenient on what build they run since DPS checks don’t really matter until the group can handle the mechanics (we’re starting on Vale Guardian). However, even without me forcing meta builds, some of the members will soon be realizing why their Soldier’s Spellbreaker build isn’t ideal. However, not everyone is patient enough to let people learn this from first hand experience.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

If you want more people to raid, you have to do something Anet already said they won't do: make raiding more accessible to the masses (ie easier). That's really all there is to it.

[Jojo.6140]

The biggest problem is that its only possible to start with raiding in the time when its new, else you need to join a guild thats just dedicated to that. I pugged raiding since the start and it wasnt a problem during the first 4 wings. Now i werent present when wing 5 launched and now its pretty much impossible to get into that without a training guild.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:If you want more people to raid, you have to do something Anet already said they won't do: make raiding more accessible to the masses (ie easier). That's really all there is to it.

No, Anet said they won't do easy mode "at that time", it means they can always change their minds, especially after players feedback considering the topic. And we know Anet respects our opinions.

[Prophet.1584]

my guild has a "raid learners" group that meets on the weekends and it's a great idea. Casual players with the appropriate gear can join and get experience with raiding. We also have static groups that some of the casual raiders have moved into and devoted their time to raiding. As a single dad with older kids at home and a full time job i don't have the time to dedicate to a static group but when our casual groups come together i'll gladly join if i'm online.

[MarkoNS.3261]

you want to train raids ? im recruiting atm check my post in looking for group or check info here https://discord.gg/XcbKmdz

[thewaterguy.4796]

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@thewaterguy.4796 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

@Rhiannon.1726 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

but GW2, i haven't seen that....all i've seen is people rage at eachother on the first wipe, rage quit, scream at new players to go watch youtube videos on it before kicking them (and keep in mind these groups didn't advertise that you needed to know what to do, they were pub groups that just asked for specific classes).

You just have to join the right groups. When a newbie joins a group that wanted an experienced player, of course they'll rage, because they want a kill and not train a newbie.

I've been to a Deimos training run (with a raid training guild) and after 1,5 hours we got the kill. One got a dc just before the kill. As he still needed the heart, we all tried another 30min to repeat the kill just for him. Sadly it didn't work, but as far as I know he got it a few days later in another training run.

There are training guilds and discord groups out there that teach newbies in a very friendly and helpful manner how to raid.

IMO this is the best way to start raiding.

they should do a better job advertising for that then, and have these "experienced" groups point these newbies in their direction, rather than saying "go watch youtube"

as the majority of people looking at raiding are not seeing the guilds dedicated to helping new player.

but instead, most people just see the extremely toxic elitist groups.

which leads to people having a negative opinion of it, and thus the population for raids being much diminished.

The problem isn’t advertising. The problem is lack of supply of people willing to hold and teach raids.

I don’t doubt that anyone who is willing to teach raids can fill their group (I’m teaching raids for my guild and it fills easily, even though raiding is not a focus of my guild at all).

And there’s two parts two the supply problem: A group can be led by 1 experienced person, but the more newbies you have, the more patient everyone needs to be since it will take longer to get a kill. On the other hand, a geoup can have veterans helping out to make the teaching smoother, but not only do less people learn, but it’s harder to find vets who are willing to help.

But holding a teaching raid is tough. Running any raid is stressful enough, but a lot of people don’t take criticism well or just don’t want to compromise on their builds. Still, I wish more people would do it since it can also be really rewarding and can build some strong friendships.

the same could be said of destiny 2's raid.

or EVE Online in its entirety.

this lack of willingness to be patient and bring people along (EVE Online tends to mix the vets with 1 newbie. or 1 vet with fleet of newbies. destiny 2 does 3:2 ratio) is what reinforces the point that Raids tend to be elitist.

because thats the very thing that elitism means.

lot of people want to try, but as long as the raid community maintains their reputation as elitist (even if not all are, enough are to give it that rep), few will try, and even fewer will stick around

thus dooming raiding to die a long slow death of inbreeding between what members it has, while having little to no player retention for newcomers

There’s truth in this, but there’s also truth missing. The raid community isn’t the only cause of the divide. There are also a lot of players with a sense of entitlement to both community and content who leave raiders feeling bitter towards newcomers.

I don’t mean this as a stereotype towards newcomers because this doesn’t describe most non-raiders who want to try the content. However, it only takes a few bad apples.

Entitlement is a stupid word, what is wrong with wanting to experience new content? As far as I've seen, people like me aren't asking for the same rewards we just want to be able to experience the mechanics and story of the raids, maybe if the raiding community wasn't taking the gamemode so kitten seriously and was willing to be more flexible and maybe

gasp

let people try out some non-meta builds, we wouldn't need an easier version

Which buddy, summer down.

A ) Entitlement is the appropriate word for how

some

people approach raiding. There are players that believe they deserve all the accomplishments of raiding without putting in the effort of learning new encounters, communicating effectively with 10 other people, showing up to events at an agreed upon time (in cases when raids are scheduled by a group), practicing their DPS rotation, tweaking their build as needed, or bringing decent gear/consumables.

B ) Nothing is wrong with experiencing new content and the problematic aspect of entitlement has nothing to do with that.

C ) What makes you think that I’m talking about you? As I said, most new/inexperienced raiders are not entitled.

D ) Many groups do try out non-meta builds. Do some looking around and you’ll find all sorts of stuff being tried out from semi-meta stuff like Minstrels chronos to full groups consisting of everyone on the same profession.

However, pugs are often stricter in their requirements for several reasons:1 ) They are dealing with strangers and don’t have a good understanding of their skill levels.2 ) They are assembling an entire 10 person group from scratch and will already take longer to just get assembled to start attempting boss fights. The longer this takes, the less time they have to fight the bosses and more likely they are to lose someone because they ran out of time.

If you are looking for a group sympathetic to inexperience or flexible with builds, then you should be looking for a good guild first as this isn’t something you will find much of from a pug (for good reasons).

I’m currently leading a group through their first raid and I’m being very lenient on what build they run since DPS checks don’t really matter until the group can handle the mechanics (we’re starting on Vale Guardian). However, even without me forcing meta builds, some of the members will soon be realizing why their Soldier’s Spellbreaker build isn’t ideal. However, not everyone is patient enough to let people learn this from first hand experience.

Your a very rare exception, believe me I tried getting into Raiding, all I ever got told is to "Go Find someone to train you" or something to the effect of "You suck and should never try raiding again" so I went to "training" Guilds, and they said I needed more experience, and at this point I'm just fed up, I've put up with enough, and I don't use this word lightly, verbal abuse from smug pricks in the raiding community, that's why I'm a little on edge when it comes to this topic

[LordOtto.2650]

I have aprox 900 li, and as soon as I join any pug group, any guild, I see at start who is being carried, being idiot at mechanics, and I don't care how good his dps is! Raid bosses are made to be done by 7-8 ppl, so the 2-3 person is a plus! I don't mind to carry 1 person, but 2 person, or more, I just say it how it is, do the mechs right or gtfo!I had to pay 150 gold to be in a squad kill dhuum, I did my job there, downed once, didn't f up the squad, this is pug life, at start if you don't kill it, bye bye, nobody wants you, even if it's 2-3 persons fault from your previous group.... today I've killed it the 2nd time, and I helped ppl with the mechs what we didin't do good at mechs, what skills to use, and we did it!Sorry to tell you, but at Dhuum we can't carry even one person, the mechs are just like that! If every boss would be like Dhuum, then max 200-300 players would play raids, the rest can't do it, you can watch you statistic, but 30% of those stats are buyers!Oh, and we have to thank the good guilds that they show us on videos, chats what to do, and sometimes they come pug too! Without them the raid community would be a disaster!

[Vinceman.4572]

You can't carry others. That's a difference. We can. :)

[Dahkeus.8243]

@thewaterguy.4796 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@thewaterguy.4796 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

@Rhiannon.1726 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

but GW2, i haven't seen that....all i've seen is people rage at eachother on the first wipe, rage quit, scream at new players to go watch youtube videos on it before kicking them (and keep in mind these groups didn't advertise that you needed to know what to do, they were pub groups that just asked for specific classes).

You just have to join the right groups. When a newbie joins a group that wanted an experienced player, of course they'll rage, because they want a kill and not train a newbie.

I've been to a Deimos training run (with a raid training guild) and after 1,5 hours we got the kill. One got a dc just before the kill. As he still needed the heart, we all tried another 30min to repeat the kill just for him. Sadly it didn't work, but as far as I know he got it a few days later in another training run.

There are training guilds and discord groups out there that teach newbies in a very friendly and helpful manner how to raid.

IMO this is the best way to start raiding.

they should do a better job advertising for that then, and have these "experienced" groups point these newbies in their direction, rather than saying "go watch youtube"

as the majority of people looking at raiding are not seeing the guilds dedicated to helping new player.

but instead, most people just see the extremely toxic elitist groups.

which leads to people having a negative opinion of it, and thus the population for raids being much diminished.

The problem isn’t advertising. The problem is lack of supply of people willing to hold and teach raids.

I don’t doubt that anyone who is willing to teach raids can fill their group (I’m teaching raids for my guild and it fills easily, even though raiding is not a focus of my guild at all).

And there’s two parts two the supply problem: A group can be led by 1 experienced person, but the more newbies you have, the more patient everyone needs to be since it will take longer to get a kill. On the other hand, a geoup can have veterans helping out to make the teaching smoother, but not only do less people learn, but it’s harder to find vets who are willing to help.

But holding a teaching raid is tough. Running any raid is stressful enough, but a lot of people don’t take criticism well or just don’t want to compromise on their builds. Still, I wish more people would do it since it can also be really rewarding and can build some strong friendships.

the same could be said of destiny 2's raid.

or EVE Online in its entirety.

this lack of willingness to be patient and bring people along (EVE Online tends to mix the vets with 1 newbie. or 1 vet with fleet of newbies. destiny 2 does 3:2 ratio) is what reinforces the point that Raids tend to be elitist.

because thats the very thing that elitism means.

lot of people want to try, but as long as the raid community maintains their reputation as elitist (even if not all are, enough are to give it that rep), few will try, and even fewer will stick around

thus dooming raiding to die a long slow death of inbreeding between what members it has, while having little to no player retention for newcomers

There’s truth in this, but there’s also truth missing. The raid community isn’t the only cause of the divide. There are also a lot of players with a sense of entitlement to both community and content who leave raiders feeling bitter towards newcomers.

I don’t mean this as a stereotype towards newcomers because this doesn’t describe most non-raiders who want to try the content. However, it only takes a few bad apples.

Entitlement is a stupid word, what is wrong with wanting to experience new content? As far as I've seen, people like me aren't asking for the same rewards we just want to be able to experience the mechanics and story of the raids, maybe if the raiding community wasn't taking the gamemode so kitten seriously and was willing to be more flexible and maybe

gasp

let people try out some non-meta builds, we wouldn't need an easier version

Which buddy, summer down.

A ) Entitlement is the appropriate word for how

some

people approach raiding. There are players that believe they deserve all the accomplishments of raiding without putting in the effort of learning new encounters, communicating effectively with 10 other people, showing up to events at an agreed upon time (in cases when raids are scheduled by a group), practicing their DPS rotation, tweaking their build as needed, or bringing decent gear/consumables.

B ) Nothing is wrong with experiencing new content and the problematic aspect of entitlement has nothing to do with that.

C ) What makes you think that I’m talking about you? As I said, most new/inexperienced raiders are not entitled.

D ) Many groups do try out non-meta builds. Do some looking around and you’ll find all sorts of stuff being tried out from semi-meta stuff like Minstrels chronos to full groups consisting of everyone on the same profession.

However, pugs are often stricter in their requirements for several reasons:1 ) They are dealing with strangers and don’t have a good understanding of their skill levels.2 ) They are assembling an entire 10 person group from scratch and will already take longer to just get assembled to start attempting boss fights. The longer this takes, the less time they have to fight the bosses and more likely they are to lose someone because they ran out of time.

If you are looking for a group sympathetic to inexperience or flexible with builds, then you should be looking for a good guild first as this isn’t something you will find much of from a pug (for good reasons).

I’m currently leading a group through their first raid and I’m being very lenient on what build they run since DPS checks don’t really matter until the group can handle the mechanics (we’re starting on Vale Guardian). However, even without me forcing meta builds, some of the members will soon be realizing why their Soldier’s Spellbreaker build isn’t ideal. However, not everyone is patient enough to let people learn this from first hand experience.

Your a very rare exception, believe me I tried getting into Raiding, all I ever got told is to "Go Find someone to train you" or something to the effect of "You suck and should never try raiding again" so I went to "training" Guilds, and they said I needed more experience, and at this point I'm just fed up, I've put up with enough, and I don't use this word lightly, verbal abuse from smug kitten in the raiding community, that's why I'm a little on edge when it comes to this topic

That’s actually pretty typical of any online gamer interaction when you’re dealing with strangers in any sort of difficult or competitive content. It sucks, but people are often their worst selves when online.

However, finding a community is a very good idea. And it’s not just about joining a guild, but from engaging with a guild. Chat with people, volunteer to help with stuff, etc. It’s a bit of an investment and may be outside of the comfort zone, but it’s very worthwhile and not just for raiding.

[Vulf.3098]

@LordOtto.2650 said:I have aprox 900 li, and as soon as I join any pug group, any guild, I see at start who is being carried, being idiot at mechanics, and I don't care how good his dps is! Raid bosses are made to be done by 7-8 ppl, so the 2-3 person is a plus! I don't mind to carry 1 person, but 2 person, or more, I just say it how it is, do the mechs right or gtfo!I had to pay 150 gold to be in a squad kill dhuum, I did my job there, downed once, didn't f up the squad, this is pug life, at start if you don't kill it, bye bye, nobody wants you, even if it's 2-3 persons fault from your previous group.... today I've killed it the 2nd time, and I helped ppl with the mechs what we didin't do good at mechs, what skills to use, and we did it!Sorry to tell you, but at Dhuum we can't carry even one person, the mechs are just like that! If every boss would be like Dhuum, then max 200-300 players would play raids, the rest can't do it, you can watch you statistic, but 30% of those stats are buyers!Oh, and we have to thank the good guilds that they show us on videos, chats what to do, and sometimes they come pug too! Without them the raid community would be a disaster!

150g for a dhuum kill? You got an extremely good deal on that considering there are several groups selling a guaranteed kill from anywhere from 500-1000 gold.

[LordOtto.2650]

@Vulf.3098 said:

@LordOtto.2650 said:I have aprox 900 li, and as soon as I join any pug group, any guild, I see at start who is being carried, being idiot at mechanics, and I don't care how good his dps is! Raid bosses are made to be done by 7-8 ppl, so the 2-3 person is a plus! I don't mind to carry 1 person, but 2 person, or more, I just say it how it is, do the mechs right or gtfo!I had to pay 150 gold to be in a squad kill dhuum, I did my job there, downed once, didn't f up the squad, this is pug life, at start if you don't kill it, bye bye, nobody wants you, even if it's 2-3 persons fault from your previous group.... today I've killed it the 2nd time, and I helped ppl with the mechs what we didin't do good at mechs, what skills to use, and we did it!Sorry to tell you, but at Dhuum we can't carry even one person, the mechs are just like that! If every boss would be like Dhuum, then max 200-300 players would play raids, the rest can't do it, you can watch you statistic, but 30% of those stats are buyers!Oh, and we have to thank the good guilds that they show us on videos, chats what to do, and sometimes they come pug too! Without them the raid community would be a disaster!

150g for a dhuum kill? You got an extremely good deal on that considering there are several groups selling a guaranteed kill from anywhere from 500-1000 gold.

Like I've written, to enter a squad kill! I didn't mentioned raid sellers!

[Vulf.3098]

@LordOtto.2650 said:

@Vulf.3098 said:

@LordOtto.2650 said:I have aprox 900 li, and as soon as I join any pug group, any guild, I see at start who is being carried, being idiot at mechanics, and I don't care how good his dps is! Raid bosses are made to be done by 7-8 ppl, so the 2-3 person is a plus! I don't mind to carry 1 person, but 2 person, or more, I just say it how it is, do the mechs right or gtfo!I had to pay 150 gold to be in a squad kill dhuum, I did my job there, downed once, didn't f up the squad, this is pug life, at start if you don't kill it, bye bye, nobody wants you, even if it's 2-3 persons fault from your previous group.... today I've killed it the 2nd time, and I helped ppl with the mechs what we didin't do good at mechs, what skills to use, and we did it!Sorry to tell you, but at Dhuum we can't carry even one person, the mechs are just like that! If every boss would be like Dhuum, then max 200-300 players would play raids, the rest can't do it, you can watch you statistic, but 30% of those stats are buyers!Oh, and we have to thank the good guilds that they show us on videos, chats what to do, and sometimes they come pug too! Without them the raid community would be a disaster!

150g for a dhuum kill? You got an extremely good deal on that considering there are several groups selling a guaranteed kill from anywhere from 500-1000 gold.

Like I've written, to enter a squad kill! I didn't mentioned raid sellers!

"Dhuum can't carry even one person"

Okay nice contradiction there. I guess raid selling groups are just hacking the game because I have seen several people stream that fight with 1-2 people dead pretty early and still kill the boss. I also pug this boss every week because my static isn't ready for it yet.

[Orpheal.8263]

@"Enoah.1956" said:Super-easy/exploration mode with no or dumbed down enemies. Make them drop no loot, let players not get any or super low-tier rewards through it. This is what I would have loved to have for dungeons too (in the exploration mode too). It's so hard to do some of them and pay attention to the story and explore the areas (I like to see things and do panomara shots with HUD hidden) when you are going in with others.

The wall that keeps most from raids, or me at least, is the requirement that you can only enter them with a 10-man squad and that you need to fight hard mobs with the right builds and knowing the mechanics.

Or add a spectator mode where you can watch people or fly around as (visible or invisible) whisps similar to how you do in Southsun Survival. This way people could perhaps get warm with how Raids work, or at least explore the areas and get to know the lore that you would otherwise forced to read up on the GW2 wiki anyway.

thats actiuayl a pretty awesome and good idea, that would really actually help, without that anything needs to be changed at all on raids, while giving beginnrs at the same tiem easy access to Raids, to see the story stuff in their own pace, while having as an invisible spectator also easily the chance to watch other players actually doing what they do LIVE out of third person view...

Nothing is better than learning mechanics, than seeing live how somebody does it just in frotn of you , while you watch the fights ect.When beign in ts with those that actually play and communicate there, it can be used in this way also like a showcase training session where the people doign actually ther can can give tzhem over vopi their live instructions to those spectators which watch invisibly the fights and mechanics ongoing, while hearign at the same tiem from ts the backgrounds, why the people do right now what they do.. and those peopel which do the raid work can play together practically like normally, without having to "carry" beginners, or change anythign on their playstyles due to having low potential builds in their setup, while the spectators just experience the whole thing, as if they would be basicalyl part of the raid, but just invisible and receive at the end no rewards.

all that such people would have to do is basicalyl to lfg for a group, whose leader allows for their Raid "Spectator Mode" and invite themself into such a partty (or get invited by someone into that party who is actually part of the real raiding group)Spectators in a Raid party woudl be basicalyl a hidden "party group in a party group", so to say practicalyl a "Sub-Party" in which peopel from that Sub Party can follow the true raid Party into their instance with their Characters invisibly like mentioned similar to the minigame activity as "Ghosts".This way have spectators the chance to view the raid happening like practicalyl a normal player out from all angles like they want, without that they can disturb somehow the raidign group or interact with them at all, cause they are conmpletely invisible all the time, can't use the chat, or eventually they can, if the party leader allows it and activates for the Sub Party the Group Chat, which could be used as feat if you want to teach spectators in raids, as no everyone can/or wants to use eventually TS, deaf players for example, which have as option for communicatrion only the chat to answer somebody or to react to others.

If there would be some kind of Spectator Mode at least, then I think it wouldn#t be neccessary anymroe to add somethign like an Easy Mode.The question is only, what makes more sense and is easier to do - adding a Spectator Mode, or addign for Raids an Easy Mode with reduced rewards. Both would be practically the neccessary simple solution, so that people can get ready for raids at their own pace better to receive the experience first they need to become ready for the real deal

[LordOtto.2650]

@Vulf.3098 said:

@LordOtto.2650 said:

@Vulf.3098 said:

@LordOtto.2650 said:I have aprox 900 li, and as soon as I join any pug group, any guild, I see at start who is being carried, being idiot at mechanics, and I don't care how good his dps is! Raid bosses are made to be done by 7-8 ppl, so the 2-3 person is a plus! I don't mind to carry 1 person, but 2 person, or more, I just say it how it is, do the mechs right or gtfo!I had to pay 150 gold to be in a squad kill dhuum, I did my job there, downed once, didn't f up the squad, this is pug life, at start if you don't kill it, bye bye, nobody wants you, even if it's 2-3 persons fault from your previous group.... today I've killed it the 2nd time, and I helped ppl with the mechs what we didin't do good at mechs, what skills to use, and we did it!Sorry to tell you, but at Dhuum we can't carry even one person, the mechs are just like that! If every boss would be like Dhuum, then max 200-300 players would play raids, the rest can't do it, you can watch you statistic, but 30% of those stats are buyers!Oh, and we have to thank the good guilds that they show us on videos, chats what to do, and sometimes they come pug too! Without them the raid community would be a disaster!

150g for a dhuum kill? You got an extremely good deal on that considering there are several groups selling a guaranteed kill from anywhere from 500-1000 gold.

Like I've written, to enter a squad kill! I didn't mentioned raid sellers!

"Dhuum can't carry even one person"

Okay nice contradiction there. I guess raid selling groups are just hacking the game because I have seen several people stream that fight with 1-2 people dead pretty early and still kill the boss. I also pug this boss every week because my static isn't ready for it yet.

I was writing about pug Dhuum squad! There you have to pull your own weight! I've sad Bosses are made for 7-8 ppl kill! Raid sellers can ez carry, they carry if the player /gg, or he pulls his own weight! I don't know, I think you just want to argue?!

[Vulf.3098]

@LordOtto.2650 said:

@Vulf.3098 said:

@LordOtto.2650 said:

@Vulf.3098 said:

@LordOtto.2650 said:I have aprox 900 li, and as soon as I join any pug group, any guild, I see at start who is being carried, being idiot at mechanics, and I don't care how good his dps is! Raid bosses are made to be done by 7-8 ppl, so the 2-3 person is a plus! I don't mind to carry 1 person, but 2 person, or more, I just say it how it is, do the mechs right or gtfo!I had to pay 150 gold to be in a squad kill dhuum, I did my job there, downed once, didn't f up the squad, this is pug life, at start if you don't kill it, bye bye, nobody wants you, even if it's 2-3 persons fault from your previous group.... today I've killed it the 2nd time, and I helped ppl with the mechs what we didin't do good at mechs, what skills to use, and we did it!Sorry to tell you, but at Dhuum we can't carry even one person, the mechs are just like that! If every boss would be like Dhuum, then max 200-300 players would play raids, the rest can't do it, you can watch you statistic, but 30% of those stats are buyers!Oh, and we have to thank the good guilds that they show us on videos, chats what to do, and sometimes they come pug too! Without them the raid community would be a disaster!

150g for a dhuum kill? You got an extremely good deal on that considering there are several groups selling a guaranteed kill from anywhere from 500-1000 gold.

Like I've written, to enter a squad kill! I didn't mentioned raid sellers!

"Dhuum can't carry even one person"

Okay nice contradiction there. I guess raid selling groups are just hacking the game because I have seen several people stream that fight with 1-2 people dead pretty early and still kill the boss. I also pug this boss every week because my static isn't ready for it yet.

I was writing about pug Dhuum squad! There you have to pull your own weight! I've sad Bosses are made for 7-8 ppl kill! Raid sellers can ez carry, they carry if the player /gg, or he pulls his own weight! I don't know, I think you just want to argue?!

I am so sorry you are not good enough to carry people. Just because you can not does not mean others in pug groups can not either.

[LordOtto.2650]

@Vulf.3098 said:

@LordOtto.2650 said:

@Vulf.3098 said:

@LordOtto.2650 said:

@Vulf.3098 said:

@LordOtto.2650 said:I have aprox 900 li, and as soon as I join any pug group, any guild, I see at start who is being carried, being idiot at mechanics, and I don't care how good his dps is! Raid bosses are made to be done by 7-8 ppl, so the 2-3 person is a plus! I don't mind to carry 1 person, but 2 person, or more, I just say it how it is, do the mechs right or gtfo!I had to pay 150 gold to be in a squad kill dhuum, I did my job there, downed once, didn't f up the squad, this is pug life, at start if you don't kill it, bye bye, nobody wants you, even if it's 2-3 persons fault from your previous group.... today I've killed it the 2nd time, and I helped ppl with the mechs what we didin't do good at mechs, what skills to use, and we did it!Sorry to tell you, but at Dhuum we can't carry even one person, the mechs are just like that! If every boss would be like Dhuum, then max 200-300 players would play raids, the rest can't do it, you can watch you statistic, but 30% of those stats are buyers!Oh, and we have to thank the good guilds that they show us on videos, chats what to do, and sometimes they come pug too! Without them the raid community would be a disaster!

150g for a dhuum kill? You got an extremely good deal on that considering there are several groups selling a guaranteed kill from anywhere from 500-1000 gold.

Like I've written, to enter a squad kill! I didn't mentioned raid sellers!

"Dhuum can't carry even one person"

Okay nice contradiction there. I guess raid selling groups are just hacking the game because I have seen several people stream that fight with 1-2 people dead pretty early and still kill the boss. I also pug this boss every week because my static isn't ready for it yet.

I was writing about pug Dhuum squad! There you have to pull your own weight! I've sad Bosses are made for 7-8 ppl kill! Raid sellers can ez carry, they carry if the player /gg, or he pulls his own weight! I don't know, I think you just want to argue?!

I am so sorry you are not good enough to carry people. Just because you can not does not mean others in pug groups can not either.

You don't know what a carry means! So sorry, please go and learn it! Then we can have real a conversation! Again, you don't read what I wrote, I wrote about Dhuum pug squad, and read what I wrote there! If you can't so sorry, but I won't argue any more, it's pointless with you!

[Vulf.3098]

@LordOtto.2650 said:

@Vulf.3098 said:

@LordOtto.2650 said:

@Vulf.3098 said:

@LordOtto.2650 said:

@Vulf.3098 said:

@LordOtto.2650 said:I have aprox 900 li, and as soon as I join any pug group, any guild, I see at start who is being carried, being idiot at mechanics, and I don't care how good his dps is! Raid bosses are made to be done by 7-8 ppl, so the 2-3 person is a plus! I don't mind to carry 1 person, but 2 person, or more, I just say it how it is, do the mechs right or gtfo!I had to pay 150 gold to be in a squad kill dhuum, I did my job there, downed once, didn't f up the squad, this is pug life, at start if you don't kill it, bye bye, nobody wants you, even if it's 2-3 persons fault from your previous group.... today I've killed it the 2nd time, and I helped ppl with the mechs what we didin't do good at mechs, what skills to use, and we did it!Sorry to tell you, but at Dhuum we can't carry even one person, the mechs are just like that! If every boss would be like Dhuum, then max 200-300 players would play raids, the rest can't do it, you can watch you statistic, but 30% of those stats are buyers!Oh, and we have to thank the good guilds that they show us on videos, chats what to do, and sometimes they come pug too! Without them the raid community would be a disaster!

150g for a dhuum kill? You got an extremely good deal on that considering there are several groups selling a guaranteed kill from anywhere from 500-1000 gold.

Like I've written, to enter a squad kill! I didn't mentioned raid sellers!

"Dhuum can't carry even one person"

Okay nice contradiction there. I guess raid selling groups are just hacking the game because I have seen several people stream that fight with 1-2 people dead pretty early and still kill the boss. I also pug this boss every week because my static isn't ready for it yet.

I was writing about pug Dhuum squad! There you have to pull your own weight! I've sad Bosses are made for 7-8 ppl kill! Raid sellers can ez carry, they carry if the player /gg, or he pulls his own weight! I don't know, I think you just want to argue?!

I am so sorry you are not good enough to carry people. Just because you can not does not mean others in pug groups can not either.

You don't know what a carry means! So sorry, please go and learn it! Then we can have real a conversation! Again, you don't read what I wrote, I wrote about Dhuum pug squad, and read what I wrote there! If you can't so sorry, but I won't argue any more, it's pointless with you!

Says the guy who had to pay to get a dhuum kill because apparently it is impossible to pug. Which is not true at all.

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

You want more raiders you need to be more open to exotics and non meta builds that work. Example I have a new account and I'm doing a banner slave with full exotic rampagers gear with balthazar runes and do about 17k dps easy. But then again I am a vet.

[Talindra.4958]

I saw someone mentioned about raid community for EU and NA, which myself only know about it and will check it out. I think those new and wish to start raid should hv a look into that too.

https://snowcrows.com/newtoraids/

[Talindra.4958]

@Vulf.3098 said:

@LordOtto.2650 said:

@Vulf.3098 said:

@LordOtto.2650 said:

@Vulf.3098 said:

@LordOtto.2650 said:

@Vulf.3098 said:

@LordOtto.2650 said:I have aprox 900 li, and as soon as I join any pug group, any guild, I see at start who is being carried, being idiot at mechanics, and I don't care how good his dps is! Raid bosses are made to be done by 7-8 ppl, so the 2-3 person is a plus! I don't mind to carry 1 person, but 2 person, or more, I just say it how it is, do the mechs right or gtfo!I had to pay 150 gold to be in a squad kill dhuum, I did my job there, downed once, didn't f up the squad, this is pug life, at start if you don't kill it, bye bye, nobody wants you, even if it's 2-3 persons fault from your previous group.... today I've killed it the 2nd time, and I helped ppl with the mechs what we didin't do good at mechs, what skills to use, and we did it!Sorry to tell you, but at Dhuum we can't carry even one person, the mechs are just like that! If every boss would be like Dhuum, then max 200-300 players would play raids, the rest can't do it, you can watch you statistic, but 30% of those stats are buyers!Oh, and we have to thank the good guilds that they show us on videos, chats what to do, and sometimes they come pug too! Without them the raid community would be a disaster!

150g for a dhuum kill? You got an extremely good deal on that considering there are several groups selling a guaranteed kill from anywhere from 500-1000 gold.

Like I've written, to enter a squad kill! I didn't mentioned raid sellers!

"Dhuum can't carry even one person"

Okay nice contradiction there. I guess raid selling groups are just hacking the game because I have seen several people stream that fight with 1-2 people dead pretty early and still kill the boss. I also pug this boss every week because my static isn't ready for it yet.

I was writing about pug Dhuum squad! There you have to pull your own weight! I've sad Bosses are made for 7-8 ppl kill! Raid sellers can ez carry, they carry if the player /gg, or he pulls his own weight! I don't know, I think you just want to argue?!

I am so sorry you are not good enough to carry people. Just because you can not does not mean others in pug groups can not either.

You don't know what a carry means! So sorry, please go and learn it! Then we can have real a conversation! Again, you don't read what I wrote, I wrote about Dhuum pug squad, and read what I wrote there! If you can't so sorry, but I won't argue any more, it's pointless with you!

Says the guy who had to pay to get a dhuum kill because apparently it is impossible to pug. Which is not true at all.

Excuse me.. im sorry ... Can you all go have beer together instead xD there's no need to argue .. beer is better !! xD <3

[maxwelgm.4315]

@"Talindra.4958" said:I saw someone mentioned about raid community for EU and NA, which myself only know about it and will check it out. I think those new and wish to start raid should hv a look into that too.

https://snowcrows.com/newtoraids/

You see, this "problem" also exists in other modes such as WvW, that players need to meet out-of-game and generally hit up external forums and discord channels in order to find groups. It's intensified in Raids apparently, perhaps because of low population and also because of the higher entry bar (player imposed or not). It is a "problem" because it shows Anet as incapable/unwilling of promoting proper tools for in-game organization and communication and also because to many players this is a no-go situation either due to their perceived notion of how much of a time investment this is going to be ("wait, I have to go into discord and read this guide? It's seriously so complex you can't just tell me what to do in chat?"), or because of previous experiences that they are tired of/unwilling to repeat ("I stopped playing X MMO precisely because I thought GW2 wasn't gonna make me wait around in VoIP or listen to people kitten about my performance, just gonna do some quick fractal CMs kthnx bye").